2008.08.08 13:00 - Attachments and Compassion

This log is a work in progress and will be finalized by Solobill within 1-2 days.

The guardian for this session was Solobill, the comments are his. 

I arrived at the Pavilion wearing my sporty steam-punk suit, because I was feeling formal. This session was a conversation that was comprised of primarily of two threads; attachment and inwardly-directed compassion.

Fael Illyar: Hi Solo :)
Solobill Laville: Well hello Fael!
Solobill Laville: Great to see you
Fael Illyar: You too :)
Fael Illyar: Oh, new clothes?
Solobill Laville: Nah, I dragged 'em out of the closet
Solobill Laville: :)
Fael Illyar: Well, change from the usual still :)
Solobill Laville: Yes, felt like changing it up a bit
Fael Illyar: I've been using this dress and shape and skin for a few days now... maybe it's time to change.
Fael Illyar: ... maybe I'll stick to just switching the shape and skin :)
Solobill Laville: :), I like them all! And changing things up is always good too
Fael Illyar: rather different feeling in some ways :)
Solobill Laville: Avatars, you mean?
Fael Illyar: the way this shape + skin looks like :)
Fael Illyar: actually, I think I'll change clothes too.
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: You could always go formal like me ;)

Gaya joined us.

Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: Hi Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Hope you've both been well
Fael Illyar: Yes, quite well :)
Solobill Laville: Yes, I have been, and you?
Fael Illyar was too late asking back it seems :P
Gaya Ethaniel: Was feeling a little sombre today with the grey weather otherwise well thank you
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: oh, phonecall
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure
Solobill Laville: Yes, we get that too where I live, from February - April.... ;)
Solobill Laville: "cabin fever"
Solobill Laville: grey, cold, and stuck inside
Gaya Ethaniel looks out 'grey most of the time even in the summer...'
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'know the feeling'
Solobill Laville: :)
Faenik: why not?
Solobill Laville: So how are things going with you, Gaya? I haven't been around much (holiday)
Gaya Ethaniel: I noticed you've been away
Gaya Ethaniel: Think I've reached some sort of plateau with my practice somewhat
Solobill Laville: Ah, how so?

Rajah joins us.

Fael Illyar: Hi Rajah
Solobill Laville: Hi, Rajah!
Gaya Ethaniel: There's nothing new except a little dips here and there. No upwards or forwards. Does this make sense?
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Rajah Yalin: hi Fael, hi Bill, hi Gaya
Solobill Laville: Yes, I understand the feeling, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls tell me your experience
Solobill Laville: Hmmmm
Solobill Laville: I think with as much time and energy that we all put into this effort
Solobill Laville: in whatever way we all do in our own way
Solobill Laville: There might be a feeling of expecting too much
Solobill Laville: being a bit too goal oriented
Solobill Laville: I hesitate to say this (as I am with most everthing I say here)
Solobill Laville: Because everyone is on their own path
Solobill Laville: and at their own spot, on their own path
Solobill Laville: But sometimes great expectations can be a big hindrance, depending on your own personal "whys" for practicing
Solobill Laville: Does that make sense?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel isn't in the right frame of mind for enlightenment today. She's happy to be just happy and content.
Solobill Laville: :)!
Fael Illyar: maybe that's enlightenment :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: Ok, done with the phonecall finally.
Gaya Ethaniel: Well don't think it is. Days like today I'm looking at my practice to relax and improve myself rather than focusing on the ultimate goal.
Solobill Laville: wb
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Fael
Gaya Ethaniel is learning to be compassionate towards herself.

What a wonderful and vital learning that is!  

Solobill Laville: Wow, that is a big one Gaya
Fael Illyar: but attaining the ultimate Goal is realizing there is none :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it is a huge one Solo. It is for me especially.
Solobill Laville: Me too
Faenik: indeed?
Solobill Laville: yes Faenik
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

I spent a good deal of time typing out a thought and noticed Gaya typing as well, so as not to step on her fingers, I stopped and backspaced...

Solobill Laville: (erase)
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Solobill Laville: Go ahead, Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: I was just going to say for me, compassion was the missing piece
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sure for others it is different
Solobill Laville: I think that's a big discovery Gaya
Fael Illyar: What I realized today is that it's perfectly fine to have attachments.
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls say a little more Fael
Solobill Laville: Yes, please Fael!
Solobill Laville: I've been reading about the attachments discussions with great interest
Fael Illyar: Well, if I had been counting, I would've lost the count on the number of attachments I lost during my trip to the shop.
Gaya Ethaniel: wow...
Solobill Laville: Please, go on, what kind of attachments?
Fael Illyar: well, all kinds of.

Quilty joined us.

Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Rajah Yalin: hi Quilty
Solobill Laville: Hi Quilty!
Quilty Bookmite: Hi All.
Fael Illyar: First time in the time I remember that I actually met strangers eyes in the shop, saw them smile and nodded. Perhaps smiled myself too.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Faenik loves wells!
Solobill Laville: What was the lost attachment in that situation?
Gaya Ethaniel thinks Fael looks radiant tonight
Solobill Laville: indeed!
Fael Illyar: hmmh, I wonder :)
Fael Illyar: it was hard to keep track when they were dissolving too fast.
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: all because I lost the attachment to not being attached.
Quilty Bookmite: Eye contact?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Solobill Laville: I think that sometimes a natural result of the work of reducing attachments is an increase in "natural" compassion
Solobill Laville: Don't know if that applies here or not, but I have experienced that :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Pls give us an example Solo
Fael Illyar: ah, yes, I think I finally know what this Compassion means.
Gaya Ethaniel: There is a large missing piece between the attachment and compassion
Fael Illyar: quite overwhelming at first.
Solobill Laville: Personally, Gaya, to me it doens't seem like there is a missing piece between them...
Fael Illyar: "You're perfect as you are"
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: so much as when we lose so much unnecessary baggage, the compassion - which was always there - is allowed to express itself
Fael Illyar: and that one was a quote from Battlestar Galactica.
Gaya Ethaniel: no I undertand you Solo but your sentence may not make sense for others. I suppose the 'missing piece' I meant was being kind towards oneself

We have a couple of strands going here.  Sorry to be dense, Gaya, now I understand your point, and yes totally agree.  At a certain point I found that I could not but be kind and forgiving towards myself.  It was either do that or take my ball and go home (i.e. stop practicing).  And that self-forgiveness is such a release.  Perhaps that is not a pre-condition for compassion towards others (as I thought) so much as you simply being the first in the direct line of compassion now released to flow through you as its vehicle...

Solobill Laville: The TV show or movie??
Fael Illyar: the new TV show, at least
Solobill Laville: hehe
Quilty Bookmite: One of the great philosophical treatises of our time. :-)
Fael Illyar: the latest season
Solobill Laville: Indeed!
Gaya Ethaniel: wishing good to be done to us as we wish to treat others
Solobill Laville: I must admit I don't know it though...
Solobill Laville: (the BG quote)
Faenik: could be
Solobill Laville: reading...
Solobill Laville: Yes Gaya, I think that being kind to oneself is part of the foundation, and I had to work on that
Quilty Bookmite: It's a recurring theme for me too.
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess 'we' are perfect - perhaps this is what quote meant
Fael Illyar: It's interesting how the new religion springing up in BSG matches what I discovered myself right now :)
Solobill Laville: oops, yes Quilty, i "have" to work on that (continually)
Fael Illyar: well ok, a few hours ago :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes at times I lose the sight of being compassionate... often a run-in with another person brings compassion back to me. Wish this won't be so necessary in the future and I will be compassionate at all times
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Fael, Was that discovery that some attachments are good?

I was going back to Fael's comment earlier about her realization that it is "perfectly fine to have attachments".

Solobill Laville: Gaya, I hope that is the case too...time will tell
Gaya Ethaniel remembers Bunan's 'attachments', Love, Generosity & Integrity
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Fael Illyar: "some attachments are good" line as it is... I'm still not convinced but hearing that is likely part of figuring this out.
Solobill Laville: But losing things like self-loathing and learning to forgive yourself can go a long way, imo
Fael Illyar: all the attachments I've found that might sound like good. Like attachment to feeling peaceful or perhaps attachment to not being attached have been bad traps for me.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Fael Illyar: attachment to non attachment won't help keeping other attachments away.
Fael Illyar: and it will make me unwilling to admit them
Gaya Ethaniel wonders if admittance is pre-requisite to acceptance
Solobill Laville: True
Fael Illyar: it is I think
Faenik: indeed?
Solobill Laville: You have to identify that which you are trying break the attachment to, of course ;)
Solobill Laville: (sorry, I have phones ringing and kids running around...)
Gaya Ethaniel: np Solo
Solobill Laville: To try to tie these two threads together...
Solobill Laville: I've found that on working on non-attachment, and letting go of some of them
Solobill Laville: I have discovered those things that were laying there, that I didn't know about
Solobill Laville: Self-loathing seems harsh, but that is perhaps most true to what I had found within myself
Solobill Laville: So I worked on forgiving myself, which led to
Gaya Ethaniel: It hurts you
Solobill Laville: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: Loathing and hating oneself hurts
Solobill Laville: allowing me to discover that compassion resides there, when it is free to flow outward
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: (guilt, self-doubt, self-loathing, are pretty effective barriers...)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: That was an "Aha" moment for me when I discovered that, self-discovery, big time
Gaya Ethaniel: I've realised that if I don't know how to love myself, I cannot love others. I'd closed my 'inner eyes' and didn't realise that I had it in myself, compassion and love
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: I agree with that statement wholeheartedly Gaya

Genesis joins us.

Solobill Laville: Hi Gen!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Hi!
Quilty Bookmite: Well said Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel: If I want to be cared and loved by others, I realised I have to start with myself
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Genesis.
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Quilty!
Fael Illyar: Hi Gen :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael!
genesis Zhangsun: Nice outfit :)
Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
Solobill Laville: But, for me anyway, working on those attachments is a requisite step
Fael Illyar: This is the first one I ever bought in SL :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Maybe I'm moving forwards somewhat then Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: upwards and beyond!
Solobill Laville: :)
Solobill Laville: Just keep on keepin' on Gaya!
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes effortless effort
Faenik: ah :)
Rajah Yalin: hi genesis
Solobill Laville: The way people climb mountains is one slow step at a time
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Rajah!
Gaya Ethaniel nods 'all journeys start with a first step' Chinese saying
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: The key is to just "keep your feet moving"
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Solobill Laville: brb
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess what I worry most is whether I hurt others while learning
Gaya Ethaniel: k
Solobill Laville: back
Gaya Ethaniel: wb
Solobill Laville: Hard to imagine how you'd do that Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel looks up her diary
Solobill Laville: What do you think?
Gaya Ethaniel: I am perhaps hurting them as I try to avoid being hurt.
Gaya Ethaniel: That is something I wrote in my diary today...
Fael Illyar: I think I heard someone say at one time that, "Hurt is good! It makes people get enlightened!"
Solobill Laville: hehe
Fael Illyar: Could've been Isen :)
Solobill Laville: That's one way to look at it Fael
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Some ppl are too fragile to take hurts
Quilty Bookmite: just don't set out to hurt people. :-)
Solobill Laville: Again, different paths, different folks
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess I just have to be aware more of what I do...
Fael Illyar: Although, the only way out is through the hurt.
Fael Illyar: the only way to make it stop
Solobill Laville: I'm not so sure it actually ever stops...
genesis Zhangsun: Hmm that is an interesting thought Fael
Fael Illyar: Well, probably not but you'll stop amplifying it yourself.
Solobill Laville: Yes
Fael Illyar: which is pretty much what I discovered today.
genesis Zhangsun: Care to exand on how that is?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes Fael. Stop the wheel from turning the wrong way. :-)
Fael Illyar: oh, right, Gen came after I explained
Solobill Laville: I'm very interested to see how you end up putting this all down in words sometime, Fael
genesis Zhangsun: oh ok sorry
genesis Zhangsun: didn't realize you had already discussed
genesis Zhangsun: will read later in blog
Solobill Laville: There's a quiz in 7 minutes
Solobill Laville: ;)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Fael Illyar: I realized it's perfectly it's perfectly fine to have attachments.
Quilty Bookmite: I've got to go in 6. :-)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Solobill Laville: No make-ups Quilty!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: :)
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm thats interesting so enjoying riding the wave :)
Fael Illyar: and as a pretty direct result, lost more of them than I could've counted during a trip to shop.
genesis Zhangsun: as we discussed last time
Gaya Ethaniel thinks holidays are good... 'look how relaxed Solo is tonight'
Solobill Laville: ahhh
Solobill Laville: yes :)
Solobill Laville: I liked your wave metaphor, Gen
Gaya Ethaniel: So what attachments have you got left Fael?
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Solobill Laville: (I need an Excel spreadsheet to organize and sort mine)
genesis Zhangsun: lol
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Gaya Ethaniel needs Access
Fael Illyar: I don't know :)
Solobill Laville: ah, yes, a database!
Solobill Laville: of attachments
Fael Illyar: whatever the count. It is. :P
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
genesis Zhangsun: I use Google excel so I can access them whenever I want ;)
Gaya Ethaniel laughs 'neat genesis'
Solobill Laville: and then delete them as appropriate!
Fael Illyar: :)
Solobill Laville: nice
Quilty Bookmite: Does the desire to list them constitute another attachment?
Solobill Laville: :)
Gaya Ethaniel opens up her Access 'hm... who listed all these?!'
Solobill Laville: Only if your attached to Microsoft (or Apple)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Solobill Laville: Alas
Solobill Laville: Be gentle with yourself Gaya
Quilty Bookmite: I use this.http://www.tadalist.com/ It's good for shopping too. :-)
Solobill Laville: And keep up the fight Fael!!
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: Same to you
Solobill Laville: ty Quilty
Fael Illyar: I'm taking a pause today :P
Quilty Bookmite: Well said Solo.
Fael Illyar: ... or well, that's what I thought :P
Solobill Laville: ...right... ;)
Quilty Bookmite: got to go now. YOu can start the quiz. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.
Fael Illyar: Goodnight Quilty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: :)
genesis Zhangsun: night
Solobill Laville: Bye Quilty
genesis Zhangsun: so is it quiz time?
genesis Zhangsun: I'm afraid I might have to walk out ;)
Solobill Laville: Yes, and you won't do well I'm afraid Gen....
Solobill Laville: LOL!!!
Gaya Ethaniel laughs
Solobill Laville: too funny
Gaya Ethaniel: What's the prize?
Fael Illyar: :)
Faenik: why not?

I leave, with my attachements and steam-punk suit, and Dakini arrives, with her skull necklace of decapitated attachments...

Solobill Laville: I must attend to my little ones
Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you for the conversation. Good day Solo
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Take care Solo!
Fael Illyar: Goodnight Solo :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Dakini :)
genesis Zhangsun: Sorry i could only catch the tail end
genesis Zhangsun: but glad to see you :)
Solobill Laville: Me too Gen!
Dakini Rhode: hi :)
Rajah Yalin: hi Dakini
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Dakini!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Hello and Goodbye Dakini!
Gaya Ethaniel: Did you have a good day on your birthday Dakini?
Dakini Rhode: I did, Gaya, thank you for asking :)
Solobill Laville: I've got to get out of here before her scary skull necklace gives me the heebie-jeebies!!!
genesis Zhangsun: oh wow Dakini! I have not seen you for a long time! Nice look :)
Dakini Rhode: So nice to see everyone :)
Fael Illyar: Ah, happy birthday Dakini :)
Solobill Laville: Happy belated!
Fael Illyar: (yes, I'm late)
Dakini Rhode: lol I'm here to shatter illusions, Bill :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Solobill Laville: Ahhhhhh!!!
Solobill Laville: :)
Dakini Rhode: these skull represent attachments which have been cut away :)
Solobill Laville: Bye all!
genesis Zhangsun: bye
Dakini Rhode: decapitated attachments :)