It was morning in Rieul again. Entering the tea house, I found Fael and Maxine waiting.
Fael Illyar: Hi Pema
Maxine Walden: I don’t recall, is this evening or morning for you?
Fael Illyar: 17:00
Maxine Walden: Hi, Pema
Maxine Walden: ah, afternoon
Pema Pera: hi there, good evening for me, and something else for you!
Pema Pera: morning for Maxine, afternoon for Fael?
Maxine Walden: oh yes, we all have our times of day
Fael Illyar: Hi Moon
Moon Fargis: good day :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Moon
Pema Pera: Hi Moonlet
Maxine Walden: Moonlet — little moon?
Moon had entered, in his infant-like avatar version, soon followed by Riddle, the guardian for this slot in time.
Moon Fargis: just wanted to take a friend is coming in a few minutes
Moon Fargis: +look
Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle
Maxine Walden: hi, Riddle
Pema Pera: Hi Riddle!
Moon Fargis: hi mate!
Pema Pera: Thanks, Riddle for taking up this slot!
Riddle Sideways: sorry, things were going baddly in the RL house
Riddle Sideways: how is everybody today
Moon Fargis: fine thaks
Pema Pera: I’m fine but my today is almost done
Fael Illyar: I’m fine :)
Maxine Walden: good here
Riddle Sideways: the different timezones stilll dazal me
Maxine Walden: me too
Fael Illyar: They do make some things awkward.
Fael Illyar: like meetings, greetings and such :)
Pema Pera: like sleep
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: yes, sleep
Fael Illyar: Oh, yes, sleep too
Riddle Sideways: yes sleep
Maxine Walden: we all agree on that
Yes, sleep or lack thereof is a popular topic in SL.
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: I noticed something interesting about my explorations. I think I’m seeing something every time but most of the time I can’t recognise anything.
Maxine Walden: could you say more, Fael?
Fael Illyar: They’re very faint, almost like black and white images without gray shades often.
Fael Illyar: although, there have been enough shades that I think it’s somehow just a matter of not seeing them clearly enough.
Moon Fargis: ah i know what you mean
Pema Pera: Hi *
Fael Illyar: Hello Stargate
Riddle Sideways: hi sun
Stargate Tone: Hello all
Moon Fargis: hi star
Stargate had just joined us.
Moon Fargis: fael: this happens when you close your eyes right?
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes.
Moon Fargis: yes you will see more of then when you slightly press on your eyes
Moon Fargis: then you can even see light
Pema Pera: well, haha
Moon Fargis: this happens due blood circulation in your eyes
Stargate Tone: can I also hear what happenes then ?
Pema Pera: we can always play that way too but
Pema Pera: in general closing your eyes is one way yes to do the 9-sec
Pema Pera: it helps to get closer to dream images
Stargate Tone: **
Maxine Walden: I think that is true, closer to dream images, when one’s eyes are closed
Fael Illyar: Although, there were 2 times when I think there was too much detail and too much stability that those were something different.
Riddle Sideways: and the spots you see though physically explainable are still valueible visions
Faenik: なるほど^^
Riddle Sideways: yes
Moon Fargis: fael: i think 9 seconds arent enouht for the eyes to come down from seeing things
Pema Pera: for the mind fine though :)
Stargate Tone: well…9 sec is very long time…
Pema Pera: yes!
It seemed that Moon and I were going in quite different directions :-).
Moon Fargis: the same thing happens when you look into a verry bright light and close your eyes then you will still see that light even after 30 seconds
Pema Pera: Moon, I don’t think we are talking about physical seeing…..
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, I think those 2 times I referred to were among my first attempts that took probably up to a minute.
Maxine Walden: we may be speaking about at least two different levels of experience here
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pema Pera: but rather about lifting a veil
Maxine Walden: one due to physical circumstances and another having to do with attention
Moon Fargis: there are many optical delusions based on this ways the eyes working
Pema Pera: between dreaming and waking
Pema Pera: one of many veils
Pema Pera: I don’t think it is related to optical illusions
Moon Fargis: ah uhm well i thought fael mean se see something due the 9 seconds
Stargate Tone: so sry falks; RL call..need to go and pick up somehting
Stargate Tone: nice to meet You *
Pema Pera: bye *!
Stargate Tone: Have Good Time *
Fael Illyar: Bye Star
Moon Fargis: bye star
Stargate Tone: stargate
Stargate left, and I asked Fael to say more about her experiences.
Pema Pera: Fael, which of the two do you think it is?
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera: dreamlke or optical illusion like
Riddle Sideways: oooo ty star
Fael Illyar: I wonder
Fael Illyar: the flashes are more likely to be optical illusion I guess.
Pema Pera: yes, that makes sense
Pema Pera: but images, as you described them before, more like visions of landscape scenes
Pema Pera: that does seem like like dreams don’t you think, dream images at least?
Fael Illyar: Yes
Pema Pera: you can cultivate those
Pema Pera: and they can appear almost instantly
Pema Pera: I have suggested to Maxine to play with that a few times
Pema Pera: but for you they came spontaneously
Showshow walked in and sat down with us.
showshow Camel: hi all
Riddle Sideways: though they be flashes, color compliements or images it is still the interruptation or reactions that the mind gives that would be important
Riddle Sideways: during a 9-sec periond
Fael Illyar: Hello showshow
Pema Pera: and dreams, Riddle, would you call those interruptions too?
Riddle Sideways: hi cam
Pema Pera: hi Showshow!
Maxine Walden: hello Show show
Riddle Sideways: hmmmm what we do with them is
Pema Pera: Maxine, did you find some time to try to play with dream images?
Riddle Sideways: dreams may be what they are, but what we do with them would be interrupting
Maxine Walden: yes, some…and the images seemed to fold into a quiet narrative
Riddle Sideways: go ahead maxine
Maxine Walden: let’s see what I can say succinctly
Maxine Walden: Pema had suggested i play with dream images while awake as opposed to the dreams I often have when asleep
Maxine Walden: and there seems in my experience so far to be a kind of litling narrative quality
Maxine Walden: as part of the experience of allowing/following images when awake
Pema Pera: By showshow, hi * :)
Maxine Walden: not always the same narrative
Stargate Tone: hi again
Stargate Tone: canceled pick up; wanted to hurry back
Fael Illyar: Hi *
Pema Pera: ^^
While Showshow was leaving, Stargate was joining us again.
Maxine Walden: but something linking maybe a thought or an image such as landscape
Maxine Walden: not sure what meaning to attach to those images/narratives but just allowing them seems interesting
Maxine Walden: at this point
Faenik: ah :)
Pema Pera: What is interesting in all this for me, is that early on, when doing the PaB for the first time, in March, in preparation for these sessions, I also very naturally went into these images/visions/dreamscapes, fairy tale like
Pema Pera: not surprisingly for me, since I have worked somewhat extensively with lucid dreams
Pema Pera: a number of years ago
Pema Pera: and then extended that into a kind of daydreaming, you could say
Pema Pera: long story
Pema Pera: anyway, I did not want to say much about that
Pema Pera: since I did not want to influence how all of you would do the 9-sec exploration
Pema Pera: prefered to wait and see
Pema Pera: but after a month or so
Fael Illyar: I’ve also tested a bit with lucid dreams but the interest faded after a couple and I forgot about it.
Pema Pera: given that Maxine had often talked about her dreams, and how vivid they were, and their quality especially
Pema Pera: I asked her a few times to explore this direction
Pema Pera: I think it may be interesting for all of us, at least for those to whom this comes relatively naturally
Pema Pera: so I was very happy to read in the blog of a couple days ago
Pema Pera: an afternoon session where I was not present
Pema Pera: (dreaming myself in Japan at 5 am)
Pema Pera: that Fael reported such experiences
Pema Pera: so I’d love to explore those together, sharing what we can, over the weeks to come
Maxine Walden: that would be very interesting
Riddle Sideways: yes, very interesting
We talked about writing as a technique.
Fael Illyar: I hope I manage to figure out how to get those at will
Pema Pera: Key is writing
Pema Pera: lab notes
Pema Pera: absolutely crucial
Pema Pera: may not seem that way
Pema Pera: but it is
Pema Pera: after you wake up from a dream and write down just three words
Pema Pera: a day later you can still remember
Pema Pera: don’t write and five minutes later all is forgotten
Fael Illyar: I’ve been writing down something from every exploration that I’ve managed to get something out of
Maxine Walden: writing notes may encourage a feedback loop as well, noting, ‘imaging’, noting, etc
Stargate Tone: may I ask this; why to try to remember the dream that is easy to forget ?
Pema Pera: that’s great, Fael, and a good trick is to write “nothing to write” if you don’t have anything you remember
Pema Pera: yes, Maxine!
Pema Pera: *
Pema Pera: what we are exploring
Maxine Walden: a kind of focus of attention but also not letting the ‘experience’ fall over the horizon as fading dreams often do
Pema Pera: is to find ways to cross over from waking to dreaming and back
Pema Pera: lift the veils
Pema Pera: open the doors
Pema Pera: and remembering is one way
Pema Pera: yes, Maxine
Maxine Walden: paying attention as well, attention, notation, etc
Fael Illyar: Hello Storm
Maxine Walden: hi, Storm
Pema Pera: Hi Storm!
Storm Nordwind: Hi guys. Sorry late
Storm joined us and sat down as well.
Stargate Tone: I asked that question, cuz I’ve ‘worked’ with ppls dreams my hole life
Stargate Tone: and them best dreams are them forgottan…
Riddle Sideways: I now have a pile of notes. When should I go back through them?
Stargate Tone: as far as I know helping ppl with them dreams
Maxine Walden: nice to log those notes if possible into a log, Riddle, to be able to follow the sequence
Stargate Tone: but very urgent is to ‘open’ them dreams, which one do remember
Stargate Tone: cuz they do have huge messages to our awaken mind
Pema Pera: Riddle, no strict need to go through them — just writing them down is a magnifying glass, and at least half of the function — but if you want, you can do it in some detail and see what patterns strike the eye — but I wouldn’t spend much time on that
Stargate Tone: them are truely opening the veils…
Faenik loves wells!
does Faenik love veils?
Maxine Walden: I agree that dreams have messages for us, but probably best not to force oneself re ‘opening’ the dream, for in my experience the dream can escape when ‘forced’
Stargate Tone: they have their ‘job’ to do too…
Stargate Tone: but not always
Faenik loves wells that fall on him.
well well well
Stargate Tone: that I ment
Stargate Tone: cuz the dreams we forget
Stargate Tone: they have ‘done’ there work completley
Stargate Tone: but ANY kind of dream we remember, is unopened letter
Stargate Tone: no matter is it’s good or bad dream
Maxine Walden: many feel that one function of the dream is to consolidate memories and experiences into the mind/brain, but others are more interested in the hidden meanings
Stargate Tone: many ppl make mistakes trusting that they have understood there good dream, which they remember
Stargate Tone: but that is not so
Maxine Walden: and the mind being so interestingly complex there are probably many simultaneous meanings available, like a kaleidoscope
Stargate Tone: and all of them ‘hidden’ is such, that our soul tires to tell us ‘nicely
Stargate Tone: ….cannot help myself asking this; do You all know Edgar Cayce ?
Stargate Tone: meaning for sure about hime
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Maxine Walden: in my experience as well the meaning as remembered re a dream or a daydream can change over time
Maxine Walden: I do not know Edgar Cayce
Stargate Tone: well; he was world wide know dream explaner….
Maxine Walden: ah.
Stargate Tone: and to my sadness, his readinss are used so so much wrong
Stargate Tone: just to make business
Stargate Tone: and use ppls interests to know the dreams
Stargate Tone: but almost all ‘done’ after him is fauls; only to get money
Different angles on dreaming were presented.
Moon Fargis: well if i may add something to this topic, due my zen practial work i more and more realized that our mid is made out of different layes of thoughts. Loud ones.. and verry quiet ones.. i counted around 5 - 6 layers. the quiet ones where verrrry confuse and not logical generated by the mind..alot of silent babbling . and i came to the conclude that they are responsible for our dreams becasue we switch off our normal loud layers of thoughts while we start to sleep
Stargate Tone: sure dreams r to manipulate already during…
could be
Moon Fargis: so manipulating dreams is i think the ability to controll these quiet thoughts
Maxine Walden: interesting, Moon
Stargate Tone: yes
Stargate Tone: indeed; the more one do understand dreams
Stargate Tone: the more there ‘comes’ ’skill’ to manipulate
Stargate Tone: yet
Stargate Tone: each one do create most of one’s own dreams
Stargate Tone: but not them, what r not dreams, but soul traveling…
Stargate Tone: ppl do not always ’see’ the difference between that either….
Stargate Tone: and if I may say ….I take that there’s much to do with them dream books
Stargate Tone: cuz ppl have trusted to them too much
Stargate Tone: and let there mind to be kind of controlled by ‘other’s’….
Stargate Tone: dogmas…
Maxine Walden: I find it more interesting to consider our personal meanings…re dreams and dreamlike images
Maxine Walden: because they are part of our immediate experience
Faenik: ah :)
Stargate Tone: mostly yes
Stargate Tone: …thinking U r still aware also them fortune telling dreams too…
Maxine Walden: could it be that we are in awe of our own unknown processes and thus turn to others to tell us?
Stargate Tone: oh so many times that is so
Stargate Tone: to ‘meet’ some ‘hidden’ thing in oneself
Riddle Sideways: this discussion is so fastinating. every time I have ever listened to dream experts they have been as a single lecturer or expert. to be amoung many in dialog is awesome
Stargate Tone: is so often much easier to do with a friend *
Maxine Walden: that it is hard to envision that we might be able as Pema is suggesting to open the doors between our waking and ‘unawake’ or ‘unknown’ parts?
Maxine Walden: it is nice, Riddle, to have such conversation…no experts, all experiencers
Stargate Tone: that’s what happenes always when one can open such dream that one do remember easily
Stargate Tone: specially, if there’s a question in many times seen good feeling dream
Stargate Tone: hmm….well…all r experts…to own dreams anyway :)***
At this point I was whisked away by tp to my own home; I must have hit a couple keys wrongly by mistake. However, being nearby and realizing what had happened I was back in a sec, well, in about 9 seconds.
Riddle: pema poofed
Maxine Walden: I think he did…
Riddle Sideways: wb pema
Stargate Tone: wcb Pema
Pema Pera: sorry
Maxine Walden: Pema, did you have a sudden dream draw you away?
Pema Pera: I think I hit a “go home” key stroke by mistake :)
Pema Pera: or perhaps I was dreaming . . .
Stargate Tone: **
Stargate Tone: :)*
Pema Pera: I should start dreaming soon though
Maxine Walden: yes, it is late for you, Pema
Pema Pera: but just to give my 2 cents worth :)
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera: and thanks, Riddle! Glad you are enjoying this
Pema Pera: I see at least three ways of working with dreams
Pema Pera: and probably many more
Pema Pera: like analysing the content
Moon Fargis: ok i also have to go now
Moon Fargis: see you later everyone
Stargate Tone: …sad…
Pema Pera: and opening to see what “messages” come up
Pema Pera: and just tasting the texture themselves of dreams
Pema Pera: To be continued!
Maxine Walden: bye, Moon
Stargate Tone: see You
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you Moon
Stargate Tone: bye
Riddle Sideways: bye moon
Stargate Tone: rl phone
Moon and Stargate left, and I was about to go as well.
Pema Pera: Riddle, can you send me the chatlog later?
Maxine Walden: the conversation about dreams will likely never end really
Pema Pera: Including my 9 second gap?
Riddle Sideways: yes, will do
Maxine Walden: and I will need to go soon as well
Pema Pera: I don’t know how many of you are old enough to remember Richard Nixon’s gaps . . . . .
Riddle Sideways: and let us continue this several times
Pema Pera: he was an early master of the 9 seconds
Maxine Walden: I recall Nixon’s gaps well
Riddle Sideways: lol
Fael Illyar: :)
Pema Pera: please continue, don’t let me stop you!
Fael Illyar: Bye Pema :)
Maxine Walden: bye, Pema
Pema Pera: sleep well, eventually!
Riddle Sideways: bye
Storm Nordwind: bye!
Maxine Walden: hopefully sleep soon
After I left, the session continued. I’m adding my comments below to the remaining part of the chat log that Riddle sent me afterwards.
Fael Illyar: Storm, you had something interesting on your blog.
Storm Nordwind: Which bit?
Fael Illyar: Reverse PaB
Storm Nordwind: Oh yes. Pema commented on that one
Storm Nordwind: “DON’T TRY THIS AT HOME!”
Fael Illyar: Yes, I read that part of the blog entry :)
Fael Illyar: Although, I doubt I even could, as of yet.
Storm Nordwind: Probably best not to try! :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Storm Nordwind: I have these flights of fancy :)
Fael Illyar: I mean, I’m not even sure how to do that. I’d guess I’m still at this Non-Being state you talked about a lot of the time.
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps it comes with increasaing ability to focus
Storm Nordwind: It actually reminded me of quite another experience that is WAY outside the normal PaB practice
Fael Illyar: What is that?
Storm Nordwind: Have you heard of seith - pronounced saythe?
Fael Illyar: No, I don’t think so.
Riddle: no
Fael Illyar: at least the name rings no bells
Storm Nordwind: It is an ancient North European shamanic practice
Storm Nordwind: Done by the pre-Christian heathens
Faenik: ah :)
Storm Nordwind: and reconstructed by some researchers I know
Storm Nordwind: although I’m not convinced they are reconstructing in the right way!
Storm Nordwind: The shaman goes into a trance and is sung there by the onlookers
Storm Nordwind: Ideally the person in the trance has a guardian who accompanies them on their journey
Storm Nordwind: But who is also fully conscious of the outside world too
Storm Nordwind: They journey to another realm and asks questions of other beings they find there based on the requests of the onlookers
Storm Nordwind: The guardian’s job is too protect them if they get into trouble
Storm Nordwind: I used to do the job of guardian
Storm Nordwind: Though it was odd why the whole trance thing was necessary, since i was fully aware of both worlds without the need for near stupor in the trance!! :)
Storm Nordwind: But this being aware of two worlds simultaneously was something I used with this reverse PaB thing
Storm Nordwind: So I was able to break away from it when I found it too agonising.
There was some discussion about the nature of the realm that Storm described.
Fael Illyar: is this other world a dream world of some kind?
Storm Nordwind: If you believe the cosmology, no this world was a real parallel place. In Heathen mythology, it is called Hel, but just a slow place to meet departed family, not a bad place.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: Since you say you were aware of it, what would you call it?
Storm Nordwind: I was aware of it as Hel. I have been to these places. They were as real as the god and goddesses of that and other realms.
Fael Illyar: I guess I lack knowledge or experience to really understand this.
Storm Nordwind: Those are wise words. I would rather someone admit that than try and pass opinions on things they don’t know (which is sadly more common!)
Fael Illyar: Well, that’s all I really can say about it. I quite clearly have nearly no idea what you were just talking about. Most people tend to automatically equate that with … well, nonsense.
Storm Nordwind: That is why I do not speak of these things normally. Not that I care what others think of me, but rather there is no need to clutter other people’s minds with those things
Fael Illyar: Yes, probably better that way.
Riddle: and then you find yourself amoung friends of similar experiences and can write of them
Storm Nordwind: Having friends with similar experiences can help you accept what you experience and can help you give yourself permission to go further
Storm Nordwind: That’s the subject of my latest blog entry! :)
Faenik: ????^^
Riddle: we await publication :)
Storm Nordwind: Already waiting for you to read :)
Stargate re-entered.
Stargate Tone: sry again
Riddle: ok star
Riddle: we all drifted off there
Storm Nordwind remembers he has that effect on people
Riddle: :)
Fael Illyar: I like that blog entry because it pretty much describes my approach to new things.
Storm Nordwind: I am so pleased to hear that. Both open-minded and open-hearted :)
Fael Illyar: At least, that’s my goal. I might not always succeed at it.
Fael Illyar: So far it’s been working out but I’ve not tried things that I’ve thought might not be possible as of yet.
Faenik: could be
Storm Nordwind: I’ve found that if I think things are impossible then they usually are. Meaning that it is better for me not even to think they are possible or not
Fael Illyar: I’ve noticed that in respect to “impossible for me” vs not paying any heed to that at all. Same thing, really I guess
Fael Illyar: Although runs the danger of people just regarding it as a cartoon and ignoring the message.
Storm Nordwind: Humour is a big teacher of truth
Fael Illyar: Yes, I guess it is :)
Fael commented on the positioning of the remaining avatars, after some had left.
Fael Illyar: I’m getting bothered by how we are sitting here :)
Riddle: ok
Fael Illyar: doesn’t feel right writing to someone behind me ;)
Storm Nordwind: When the music stops, we have to sit on a cushion, right? ;)
Riddle: right
Faenik: could be
Storm Nordwind: Or in your case, Riddle, levitate above it
Fael Illyar: oh right, that floating in the air apparently happens if you jump from cushion to cushion directly.
Storm Nordwind: Well it may be time for me to go and do more work on our coastal PaB site
Riddle: my connection problems are back again
Fael Illyar: Well, I guess this meeting has gone on for long enough :)
Fael Illyar: looks like I need to digest this for some time before I can get anything out of it.
Riddle: thank you, all. I will be losing connection soon
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you both later :)
Storm Nordwind: Bye for now both
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Riddle: bye all
Fael Illyar: namaste
Fael Illyar: I need to get that animation from somewhere
Riddle: so much to learn
