2008.08.03 19:00 - Neuroscience and Architecture

Pia Iger as the Guardian, provided the log, its title and comments.

Starseed, Adelene and Threedee (3D in short) already waited in Pavilion.

Adelene Dawner: 'lo Pia
Threedee Shepherd: hi Pia
Pia Iger: Hello, all.
Pia Iger: 3D is back:)
Adelene Dawner: Yes! :D
Threedee Shepherd: Back from vacation, yes :)
Pia Iger: How are you Starseed?
Starseed Xue: hi Pia
Starseed Xue: im sorry guys, im a bit distracted tonight
Pia Iger: (nice to sit between a lion and a bird)
Pia Iger: np, Starseed.
Threedee Shepherd: np, you ARE here :)
Pia Iger: oh. 3D, welcome to join our guardian team.
Threedee Shepherd: thank you. I am pleased to be invited :)
Pia Iger: Hi, Steve,
stevenaia Michinaga: hello, I was rezzing
Threedee Shepherd: Hi
Steve stevenaia Michinaga: hello 3D, Star, Adelene
Adelene Dawner: 'lo all
Pia Iger: (my AV keep typing, even typist is not)
stevenaia Michinaga: you floating tonight, Pia?
Pia Iger: ok. now better.

I had to stand up and sit down again, so  my AV won't float around. 3D started a book topic.

Pia Iger: anyone wants to talk about anything? 3D, maybe some sparkles from vacation?
Threedee Shepherd: One book I read was Jamling Tenzing Norgay Sherpa's book about his climb of Everest in
1996 and how he related it to his father.
Pia Iger: in what way related to father?
Pia Iger: Hi, Prosper.
Prosper Telling: Namaste
Starseed Xue: Namaste
Threedee Shepherd: His father, Tenzing Norgay Sherpa and Ed Hillary were the first to climb Everest in 1953
Pia Iger: (my ignorance)
Threedee Shepherd: The interesting parts for me were his descriptions of his "religious practice" of Buddhism, not just the mindfulness
Pia Iger: what kind of description?

Out of blue, Starseed injected a TV talk into our book discussion. (For those never watching TV, Carrie Underwood was a winner of "Amerian Idol" TV show, at least I know that :)

Starseed Xue: Carrie Underwood
Starseed Xue: "Before he cheats"
Prosper Telling: sounds interesting
Starseed Xue: i like this song
Threedee Shepherd: visiting Lama's for divinations, propitiating type rituals, karmic awareness given to daily activities Starseed Xue: sorry, like i said, the tv is on so im a bit distracted
Prosper Telling: no prob
Prosper Telling: going to be watching CNN real soon here as well
Starseed Xue: if it were up to me, the tv would be off
Starseed Xue: but my father enjoys it
Prosper Telling: Second part of Buddha's Warriors wikk be starting
Threedee Shepherd: Reading his descriptions made me wonder how much I get dealing only with the philosophy of Buddhism and not the "religious" practice of it?
Pia Iger: (there are some wonderful TV programs). let's go back to 3D's thread.
Threedee Shepherd: Buddhism is a culture. My culture is different.
Starseed Xue: im not buddhist
stevenaia Michinaga: is there a way to simply explain the two to me?
Starseed Xue: i just enjoy meditation
Prosper Telling: Threedee please elaborate.
Threedee Shepherd: neither am I. so I wonder as I read stories, koans, Tao, how much I am reading "about" versus immersing in?
Pia Iger: Are you saying ppl in that culture are more immersed /living in Buddhism, as we just understand intellectually?
Prosper Telling: IMHO Buddhism seems to most often form an undercurrent running through different
cultures--- from Sri Lanka to Japan, rather diverse lot
Threedee Shepherd: Pia, to some degree, yes.
Prosper Telling: The Dharma head at our local temple is form of saying the Dharma offers; it doesn't demand.
Threedee Shepherd: A way I address that is to find a way "in" from my standpoint, which has been intensive study of western philosophers writing about "consciousness"
Prosper Telling: Personally I am rather 'religious' oriented I guess. Amitabha, Pure Land, sticking around until the Hells are empty, that whole end of the spectrum.
Prosper Telling: I think we all have to grab the corner of the elephant that best suits us.
Threedee Shepherd: true :0
Pia Iger: so about the book, did the author relate the buddhism practice to his conquer of Everest?
Threedee Shepherd: yes. He saw it not as a conquest but as a boon offered by the goddess that is the mountain.
Prosper Telling: A modern pilgrimage I guess
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Prosper Telling: Sounds like a good read
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Threedee Shepherd:
http://www.amazon.com/Touching-My-Fathers-Soul-Sherpas/dp/0062516884/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217816903&sr=8-1
Threedee Shepherd: very honest and direct
Starseed Xue: im going to bed
Pia Iger: but the conquest is also such a huge realistic project, including all detailed preparations.
Prosper Telling: Sleep well
stevenaia Michinaga: night star
Threedee Shepherd: where in the world are you, sleep well
Starseed Xue: ty
Starseed Xue: peace out everyone

Starseed left. 3D got interested in Stevenaia's profile. Sky, Avastu and Resting Thor came in and listened.

Threedee Shepherd: Stevenaia, do you practice architecture?
stevenaia Michinaga: the same way some practice meditation
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: I often feel my work is my meditation
Threedee Shepherd: I see you are a member of RL Architects in SL. I have been to many of the meetings, though not an architect.
Threedee Shepherd: Hello Resting
Pia Iger: Hi, Thor
stevenaia Michinaga: I have once and listen to their group posts
Resting Thor: hi all :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Resting
Prosper Telling: Hi
Threedee Shepherd: hello sky
Pia Iger: Hi, Sky.
Sky Szimmer: hi
stevenaia Michinaga: One's work should be one's meditation
Resting Thor: or at least a mindfulness practice
Pia Iger: in that case, it is wonderful.
Pia Iger: Hi, Avastu,
Threedee Shepherd: And I feel fortunate to have had that.
Avastu Maruti: hello my friends
stevenaia Michinaga: what do you 3D?
Threedee Shepherd: hi
Pia Iger: what is a lion's work:)
Prosper Telling: Hate to run but there is somewhere I need to check out. (long story honest)
Threedee Shepherd: I am a recently retired college professor who studies neuroscience and stuff.
Prosper Telling: Bye all
Pia Iger: bye, Prosper.
Threedee Shepherd: see you again prosper

Stevenaia brought up an intriguing connection.

stevenaia Michinaga: much has been written about neuroscience and architecture
Pia Iger: Can you give an example?

stevenaia Michinaga: architects want to know how things are perceived and how the environment changes how we preceive..on many levels

stevenaia Michinaga: so, we pick up the phone and call our local neuroscientist

Threedee Shepherd: Indeed, I have talked with and in front of architects about the relationships

Pia Iger: I read somewhere, that high ceiling helps you with better thinking, 

stevenaia Michinaga: there are books of such things, one A Pattern Language by Christopher Alexander is a good starting point
Threedee Shepherd: A book I read in, often.
stevenaia Michinaga:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0195019199/skilmean-20
Pia Iger: so we can say, our mind/brain is very elastic, being molded by all sorts of thing, one as the physical surroundings.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, and there are cruel architect's out there to take advantage of that
Pia Iger: "Cruel" sounds chilly.
Threedee Shepherd: Pia, I think built environments are especially telling because they are an intimate interaction of our perceptions and our preferences, we inform the buildings, they inform us...
stevenaia Michinaga: well bad architecture can be painful
stevenaia Michinaga: to the senses, to the soul, to your day
stevenaia Michinaga: and good architect can be just as much the opposite
stevenaia Michinaga: and in both cases you know it quickly
Threedee Shepherd: Pattern Language has this to say about ceilings: "A building in which the ceiling heights are all the same is virtually incapable of making people comfortable."
Pia Iger: Ah!
Adelene Dawner: interesting
Pia Iger: very interesting.
stevenaia Michinaga: that is often overlooked in design
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you 3d
Threedee Shepherd: welcome. Just happen to have the book nearby :D
Pia Iger: To think, most modern office building are like that:)
Pia Iger: low and even ceiling in a lots of offices
Threedee Shepherd: I propose an experiment (not now). Go to an open space or sandbox and build a room around yourself, with texture on the walls and see what effect different sizes have on us.
stevenaia Michinaga: and the expectation is that productivity of the occupants will somehow be enhances merely by proximity in such a space
Pia Iger: (Used to live in a cramped room in NYC, so I don't need to imagine.)
stevenaia Michinaga: loll
Threedee Shepherd: Of course in SL, the normal camera position seems to lead to a 1.5x RL scale.
Threedee Shepherd: perhaps we could explore "space" at another meeting, or now
Pia Iger: now? how?
stevenaia Michinaga: probably as difficult as exploring Being with words
Threedee Shepherd: what comes to mind when you even use the word, for example?
Threedee Shepherd: yes, which is why I proposed it ;)
Pia Iger: You mean each of us tell what space means to us?
Threedee Shepherd: if possible. I find that the multiple scales are almost different things: cosmos, open field, room, tall building,
Adelene Dawner: I think of my job. I work in a xxx (place). The long, long halls - you almost feel like you could go crazy just from them, sometimes, the distance and the closed-in-ness at the same time like that. The little rooms, all the same. The big activity room, larger than my whole apartment, and the activity room, Home in the home, comfortable.
Threedee Shepherd: yes long halls arouse in me a feeling similar to an endless staircase

A newcomer, Jag dropped by, but had difficulty to sit, maybe because of his big long tail.

Jag Nakamura: Hello folks.
Threedee Shepherd: hello jag
stevenaia Michinaga: yes the reason to build them like that have little to do with how people react to them, but how cheap they are to build
Pia Iger: another major element: cost.
Adelene Dawner: mm-hmm
Jag Nakamura: Its rather.. soothing here. Actually feels like I can get a piece of mind for once. =)
stevenaia Michinaga: this makes little sense
stevenaia Michinaga: have a seat Jag
Jag Nakamura: Hmmm.... can't seem to sit properly.
Pia Iger: or kneel
Pia Iger: Jag, http://playasbeing.wik.is
 is our website, if you are interested to know more
stevenaia Michinaga: have you been here before Jag?
Jag Nakamura: Nope.. not at all.
Threedee Shepherd: "A" space doesn't exist until we enclose it physically or in some other way. Then it has such strong influences on us. I hope SL can help explore this
stevenaia Michinaga: I've seem wonderful places built here by non-architects here, it gives me hope
Pia Iger: I was thinking, a vast space, empty, no focal points, can lead to anxiety and despair.
stevenaia Michinaga: the opposite of this wonderful place
Threedee Shepherd: we seem to need boundaries to define our Being, and try to get beyond them as well, through things like meditation

It was already past the hour. One by one, we departed. Though I felt we could have much more to explore on this topic.

Avastu Maruti: good bye for now, my friends Threedee Shepherd: bye
Pia Iger: bye, Avastu, good to see you.
Threedee Shepherd: bye
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Avastu
Sky Szimmer: I've got to run too! Good seeing you all
Pia Iger: bye, Sky.
Threedee Shepherd: see you again sky
stevenaia Michinaga accepted your inventory offer.
Threedee Shepherd: Steve, are you at all able to balance human and humane factors with costs, in your work?
Pia Iger: giving you the new LM of our future meeting place. very well done by Storm.
Threedee Shepherd accepted your inventory offer.
Adelene Dawner accepted your inventory offer.
Adelene Dawner: ty Pia
Threedee Shepherd: thx
Pia Iger: I hate to leave this interesting discussion. but need to go with the log.
Threedee Shepherd: goodnight, see you again soon :)
Pia Iger: maybe next time we can continue with space.