2008.09.04 19:00 - Source of Refreshment

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    Pia Iger was the guardian and did this log.

    I was a bit late and luckily did not miss anything.

    Adelene Dawner: 'lo, Pia :)
    Pia Iger: Hi, Adelene, 3 D,
    Pia Iger: sorry I am a bit late
    Threedee Shepherd: Hi Pia
    Adelene Dawner: no worries
    Adelene Dawner: you didn't miss anything.
    Pia Iger: good, thanks.
    Threedee Shepherd: are you Host tonite, Pia?
    Pia Iger: yes. I am. Has it been quiet?
    Adelene Dawner: mmhmm
    Threedee Shepherd: No one here but us animals :)
    Pia Iger: hehe...
    Adelene Dawner chuckles

    3D initiated the comparison of PaB and other non-PaB activity in SL.

    Threedee Shepherd: Pia, I ask this noting your SL birthdate. Have you spent much time in non-PaB activity in SL?
    Pia Iger: not much.
    Threedee Shepherd: If you did, I was wondering about the contrasts in the experiences.
    Pia Iger: There are many guardians who had been active in SL long before PaB started. But I am not one of them. I don't have much experience out side of PaB.
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    Pia Iger: How about you? You came to SL last year, seems.
    Threedee Shepherd: Yes, initially to explore how my retirement business 3DE (stands for 3D Embodiment) which deals with Virtual Reality in RL, might fit into SL.
    Threedee Shepherd: I am still pursuing that, and have also developed many other SL threads/tangents, such as PaB.
    Pia Iger: SL does provide various potentials.
    Adelene Dawner: The 'life' part of the name is more accurate then you thought, huh, Mark? ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: Given that it's ALL an illusion, anyway, not much distinction between Lives :)
    Adelene Dawner: :D
    Pia Iger: Mmm, I heard of this saying before, but what to make sure what you mean by ' it's ALL an illusion". Don't want to pretend that I understand.
    Threedee Shepherd: except that teleporting beats driving, anyday !
    Adelene Dawner grins at Three
    Pia Iger: yes!

    3D explained what he meant by "illusion".

    Threedee Shepherd: Well, to start on a practical level, I ' ll build the case this way: there is a real world (besides me) that would continue to exist even if all humans disappeared in the next instant. However, all that I CAN know about that world is what is filtered by my senses and my brain. I have no access to independent information about how the world *really* is. So, in a very real sense, the only world I know is the one that is "made up* in/by/with my brain-body. Or to put it another way, reality is what I think it is.
    Adelene Dawner: ...Pia's probably still lost, yanno.
    Threedee Shepherd: In a loose sense, therefore, my reality is my illusion
    Threedee Shepherd: Pia, am I making any sense?
    Pia Iger: yes.
    Threedee Shepherd: SL is a total illusion, the computer bits are not a *real* world. YET, there are people I know in and through SL who are much more real to me than people who live next door.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pia Iger: True. I have not talked to my neighbors as much as to your guys.
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    Threedee Shepherd: To be a bit less metaphorical I can say this. Everything I know of the world is mediated through my senses. I read a novel and my eyes turn it into a picture and place and story, the computer screen is simply another filter mediating the reality that reached me.
    Threedee Shepherd: *reaches
    Pia Iger: Yes., everything appears only through our awareness.
    Threedee Shepherd: a filter, similar to the novel I read, which is its own kind of filter
    Threedee Shepherd: take a specific extreme example. someone who is paranoid actually believes they are being followed, spied on, monitored. That is as real to them as sunrise in the morning.
    Pia Iger: could be:)
    Adelene Dawner: Or your awareness of others' emotions by way of body language - that simply doesn't exist for me. But I don't doubt that it does for you, any differently than 'green' exists for me despite some people being colorblind.
    Threedee Shepherd nods
    Pia Iger: I think 9 sec is the tool to give us a chance to see through the "solid" reality we bought into, that actually "we are not followed", "
    Threedee Shepherd: mmm
    HL Ashdene: hi
    Adelene Dawner: reminds me of some song lyrics, one sec
    Pia Iger: that what we thought was real, is only our 'illusion"
    HL Ashdene: may i join you, or having a private convo?
    Pia Iger: Hi, HL, welcome
    Pia Iger: this is an open conversation.
    Threedee Shepherd: Please join us,
    HL Ashdene: peacful place

    HL,  a first time visitor, walked in and stayed through the session.

    HL Ashdene: what are you discussing?
    Adelene Dawner: "What do you mean keep it real, could someone please explain/When reality's just light interpreted by your brian/And if mine and your perceptions ain't one and the same/Which one of us is normal which one is insane?"
    Pia Iger: HL, as you can see from Adelene's quote, we discuss about the reality.
    Threedee Shepherd: we are a group that discusses the nature of being see http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    HL Ashdene accepted your inventory offer.
    Pia Iger: I just gave you a notecard about our group.
    HL Ashdene: yes, i see. thank you
    Threedee Shepherd: Adelene, the song "Grand Illusion" is similar, or is that actually from it?
    Pia Iger: We do record what we say here on the blog. Do you mind if your name appear on our blog?
    Pia Iger: HL?
    HL Ashdene: not at all
    Pia Iger: thanks,
    Adelene Dawner: Nope, it's from a hip-hop song actually. "Rapper's Battle" by Scroobius Pip.

    How HL found us?

    HL Ashdene: i found this place by searching for "daoism" so i would enjoy participating in a discussion with those attracted to the same
    Threedee Shepherd: you are in one of the right places in SL for such discussions. We touch on many traditions in exploring reality, Tao, Zen, buddhism, Western religion, spirituality, etc.
    Threedee Shepherd: There are about 3 dozen group members. We gather every day at 1 AM, 7AM, 1PM and 7PM (linden time)
    Threedee Shepherd: different members simply come as they wish when convenient
    Adelene Dawner: Sorry to bail early, guys, but I need to go move my laundry around. It should only take 10 minutes or so.
    Pia Iger: HL, you found a VERY special group in SL!!
    Pia Iger: Np. Adelene.
    Threedee Shepherd: later, Ade
    Threedee Shepherd: HL, what about doaism interests you, appeals to you?

    Thanks for 3D giving a good recap of our group. For a while, HL appears afk. I picked up the previous topic.

    Pia Iger: before HL comes back. 3D, I want to go back to the first question you brought us, the comparison of PaB with other activities in SL. I feel the regular presence of PaB, 4 times a day, is something quite special in SL.
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, it is
    Pia Iger: and we have been blogging every session we had. The sense of group is so solid.
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, and it is evolving
    Threedee Shepherd: My sense is that not all in the group are still strongly involved, which will lead to a reintegration of those who are, and new experiences.
    Pia Iger: Yes, there is difference among us in the level of involvement.
    Pia Iger: *among all members.
    Threedee Shepherd: That will be true of any and every group, and is natural.
    Pia Iger: but by avarage, the involvement of this group would be higher than most SL group. I assume.
    HL Ashdene: sorry was afk
    Pia Iger: wb, HL.
    Threedee Shepherd: true, given its intensity and probably a strong filtering effect at the outset
    Adelene Dawner is here.
    Pia Iger: you, too. Adelene
    Threedee Shepherd: wb
    Pia Iger: and 9 sec practice is quite portable for most of us to try in RL.

    HL came back and asked about our 9 sec practice.

    HL Ashdene: was this 9 sec practice your own creation or drawn/based on a tradition?
    Pia Iger: the form of 9 sec was initiated by the group starter, but the idea of it is related to many traditions.
    HL Ashdene: ic, seems like a focus on introspection, and detachment
    Pia Iger: and very suitable for modern life, since most people found hard to have time to do hour lon g  meditations.
    HL Ashdene: a good start...
    Pia Iger: anyone can try it.
    HL Ashdene: yes, i've sought out the more traditional forms
    Pia Iger: are you practice any special meditation?
    Threedee Shepherd: many in our group practice those more traditional forms, as well
    HL Ashdene: yes, taoist
    Pia Iger: yes, 3D.
    HL Ashdene: chi kung, rather than the more budhist styles of guided or introspective
    Pia Iger: We have many members here practicing buddhism, Zen, meditation. They found 9-sec practice quite a complementary tool.
    HL Ashdene: yes, i would agree, they are for different purposes
    HL Ashdene: physical health vs psychological maturation
    Threedee Shepherd: which actually go together quite nicely, HL :)

    Steve rezzed, wearing the new purple color PaB T-shirt.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Pia Iger: Hi, Steve,
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pia
    HL Ashdene: indeed, because at some point, it becomes a chicken and egg issue...physical health would be an outward manifestation of inner health
    Pia Iger: nicely said, HL.
    HL Ashdene: have you ever noticed that those with chaotic personal lives also have unkempt homes?
    Pia Iger: very much so.
    HL Ashdene: but i feel it also goes the other direction
    HL Ashdene: for example, fung shui
    HL Ashdene: outward order, and harmonized energy would calm a psychologically turbulent person
    Threedee Shepherd: re umkempt, I have also noticed the opposite
    HL Ashdene: and slowly allow them the calm to improve their inner health
    HL Ashdene: hehe we had the same thought at the same time
    HL Ashdene: (hi steve)
    stevenaia Michinaga: nods
    HL Ashdene: they were explaining the purpose of this group to me as a first time visitor...
    stevenaia Michinaga: did they pass you the web site addresses...?
    HL Ashdene: yes
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome  to SL, I see you arrived recently
    HL Ashdene: indeed, freshly manifested from the universal. ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: well seems this group is a constant event here
    stevenaia Michinaga: if you come back enough you may even get a free t-shirt
    stevenaia Michinaga: ...smile
    Pia Iger: we would say, whoever found this group has good karma.
    Pia Iger: you found us just after a week in SL: )
    HL Ashdene: <-flattered
    stevenaia Michinaga: how did you come here AL?
    stevenaia Michinaga: to this group, not SL
    HL Ashdene: oh, i was on a tour of the beautiful places, just exploring and i searched for "taoism"
    HL Ashdene: and the temple came up in the listings

    I was interested in knowing more about  HL's traditional practice.

    Pia Iger: HL, Could you say more about your practice, Chi Kung?
    HL Ashdene: sure...www.tigerkungfu.com
    Pia Iger: how do you do it?
    Pia Iger: daily.
    HL Ashdene: well, i must confess i have been neglecting my practice lately, more doing tai chi instead since it requires less time commitment
    HL Ashdene: however there was a time when i did 2-4 hours a day
    Pia Iger: wow.
    HL Ashdene: you know the statues of buddha?
    HL Ashdene: the various poses he sits in?
    Pia Iger: yes.
    HL Ashdene: those are depicting meditation
    Pia Iger: right.
    HL Ashdene: but what is not shown is that there is a particular way you have to breathe
    HL Ashdene: merely sitting in that pose does nothing
    Pia Iger: that is invisible, the breathing part.
    HL Ashdene: i dont know if you already know all this
    Pia Iger: It's alwasy good to hear from your point of view.
    HL Ashdene: ok, each one has a specific purpose
    HL Ashdene: it would cultivate a particular type of energy
    HL Ashdene: to improve the health
    Pia Iger: agree.
    HL Ashdene: however, as the monks developed these, they realized that some had a martial application as a side effect
    Threedee Shepherd: ^.^
    Pia Iger: yes, I saw on movies. some monk s   can stand upside down on one finger.
    Threedee Shepherd: so that's an origin og martial arts? Did not know that
    HL Ashdene: hehe, well, with sufficient faith one can move a mountain, so why not a finger stand?
    HL Ashdene: in fact, it is easy to move mountains here in SL> :)
    Pia Iger: very easy:)
    Pia Iger: as far as I know, breathing is an crucial part of martial arts.
    HL Ashdene: of life in general
    HL Ashdene: westerners don't know how to breathe
    Pia Iger: our 9-sec practice is kind of reminder for us to focus on breathe every 15 min.
    Pia Iger: or return to the awareness of our breath every 15 min.

    From breathing, HL turned to the impact of time regulation to our modern life.

    HL Ashdene: here's a tought on time: perhaps the every increasing regulation of time causes us to breath more shallowly and rapidly?
    HL Ashdene: as the world becomes more mechanical and synchronized by precision clocks, we become stressed, thereby causing us to breath more shallowly
    Threedee Shepherd: Folks, I need to leave. Hope to see you again HL. thanks for hosting, Pia. goodnight all
    Pia Iger: the time sense of 15 mins is not regulation. It is just a reminder. the time period can be flexible. not strictly 9 sec or 15 min at all.
    HL Ashdene: goodnight 3D
    Pia Iger: night, 3D.
    HL Ashdene: i wasn't speaking of 9s directly
    HL Ashdene: was offering a general thought about moderln life
    HL Ashdene: 9s is a nice way to block out some time for oneself, to practice being present and healthy
    Pia Iger: Wow, you understand it so quickly, HL.
    HL Ashdene: ;)

    So naturally HL used "9s" to refer to our 9-sec practice!  Personally, I think 9s is the shortest, hence nicest abbriviation, which actually was never thought of by our group until last Monday's night session.
    HL was fluent with expressing other thoughts, too.

    HL Ashdene: may i offer another thought?
    Pia Iger: of cause.
    HL Ashdene: my source of refreshment is nature
    HL Ashdene: i like it because it is still and empty, and evolved rather than designed...no straight lines in nature and such...
    HL Ashdene: when i am wearing my watch and out in nature, i always  feel rushed
    HL Ashdene: and do not become anywhere near as refreshed
    HL Ashdene: because part of my consciousness is thinking to the future instead of the present
    HL Ashdene: i react to my watch
    HL Ashdene: however, when i don't wear it, i become refreshed quickly
    HL Ashdene: and often end up returning earlier than i would have otherwise, though i perceive that i have been out far longer
    Pia Iger: Yes, it brings up the preception of time is relative.
    HL Ashdene: i feel that time only exists in our minds
    Pia Iger: when you are at present, moments can feel longer.
    HL Ashdene: and by measureing time it strengthens that concept and pushes us away from being present
    HL Ashdene: and further, it weakens the will
    HL Ashdene: because we react to external than create from internal
    Pia Iger: in that sense, yes. We are customed to looking at future, not Now.
    Pia Iger: Being Now and Here is a big topic here.
    Pia Iger: If you come to our meeting in other time slots, you will meet many other people with different background.
    HL Ashdene: yes, unfortunately i cannot attend during the daytime
    HL Ashdene: speaking of one's life regulated by clocks
    HL Ashdene: RL calls during those hours
    Pia Iger: me, too.
    stevenaia Michinaga: nigth HL, Pia
    Pia Iger: night, Steve.
    HL Ashdene: night steve
    Pia Iger: HL, our meeting is usually a hour long and have a host each time.
    Pia Iger: This session, I am the host, as my tag says "Payasbeing Guardian"
    HL Ashdene: i see
    Pia Iger: You can read some snippets of our previous meetings at
    HL Ashdene: ok, i saw those
    HL Ashdene: havent read
    Pia Iger: You can find we had discussed about 'wu wei" , not-doing before.
    Pia Iger: not just before, it is a recurring topic here.

    Now it got more interesting...

    HL Ashdene: hehe, i may have a somewhat heretical belief on that one. ;)
    Pia Iger: we love to hear herectical thougths.
    HL Ashdene: inaction is impossible
    Adelene Dawner agrees with Pia
    HL Ashdene: sort of goedel's proof
    HL Ashdene: "I am not doing that"
    HL Ashdene: but "not doing" is a type of doing
    Pia Iger: exactly. doing by not-doing.
    HL Ashdene: i see it as one of those zen koans...a paradox that forces introspection
    HL Ashdene: focusing on what not to do is a redherring
    Pia Iger: the real meaning of not-doing is not what it look like literally.
    HL Ashdene: yes, well then it seems we are all in agreement
    HL Ashdene: i have found this a hard concept to communicate with others
    Pia Iger: but, really, how to apply 'not-doing' in real life, there is much to learn
    HL Ashdene: it would be more self directed....by thinking of what not to do, you implicitly choose what you wish to do
    stevenaia Michinaga: night all
    HL Ashdene: is our feathered friend here?
    Pia Iger: I guess so:)
    Pia Iger: or folding laundry
    HL Ashdene: lol
    HL Ashdene: afk

    It's almost 2 hours. Time to wrap up and invite HL to come for future sessions.

    Pia Iger: anyway, I need to close this session. and there are many people here who communicates very well about the concept, you will happily find so if you come back.
    HL Ashdene: ok.
    HL Ashdene: is there a group?
    Pia Iger: yes. the group is open to everyone, you are welcome at any meeting time.
    HL Ashdene: can you send me an invitation please?
    Pia Iger: no invitation need. Just stop by at the meeting time, as stated on notecard I gave to you.
    Pia Iger: We do have a guardian group, taking care of house-keeping issues, like hosting meeting, and keep the meeting logs, etc.
    HL Ashdene: ok
    HL Ashdene: other matters call, pleasure to meet you all
    Pia Iger: Nice meeting you.
    Pia Iger: bye, Adelene.

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