2008.09.29 07:00 - What is this Being?

That morning, I, Pema, was the guardian on call, and though I arrived several minutes early, Fael and Umbriel were already there in the pavilion.

Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
Pema Pera: Hi Fael, hi Umbriel!
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Pema Pera: u 2 !

I meant to respond to Umbriel's greeting by wish him the same, but my "you too" was numerically/linguistically interpreted differently by Fael :-)

Fael Illyar: us 2?
Pema Pera: yes :)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: Fael, I was just reading a chat log from a week ago (I'm still desperately trying to catch up), and I read about somebody who seemed to be new to PaB in the "yes and no" sense, but I was amused at how much this person sounded like you :)
Fael Illyar: Oh, I see :)
Pema Pera: but of course it could be a complete coincidence :-)
Fael Illyar: Maybe :)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: We could have a competition of alts and see who manages to remain undiscovered
Fael Illyar: no chance for me :P
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: (by not saying particular greetings, for example :-)
Umbriel Levenque: heheh

:)

Pema Pera: I don't think I would succeed for more than a few minutes
Pema Pera: but perhaps I should try some day . . . .
Fael Illyar grins 'Better make that female alt then.'
Pema Pera: that would be even harder imo
Pema Pera: I think I would have more of a chance to say certain opinions, rather than having to try a different gender altogether . . . .
Umbriel Levenque: sure you'd surprise yourself
Fael Illyar: go ahead, try it :)

I did a little green Faenik impersonation, and then I suddenly got an idea.

could be
Fael Illyar: practise elsewhere first ;)
Pema Pera: :)
Fael Illyar had a few months of practise before coming to PaB :P
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pema Pera: The most fun would be to come in and strongly argue that PaB does not make any sense at all . . ..
Pema Pera: that would be easy to do, because I've thought a lot about both sides of the argument
Umbriel Levenque wonders if Pema's female alt can act like a newbie to PaB
Fael Illyar grins 'Perhaps not.'

Now that's a thought, too . . . . But I was already off on my new role of arguing against PaB, for a change :-).

Pema Pera: I mean, really, what is that abstract word Being that everybody uses in such a different way?
Umbriel Levenque: argumentative one then... against PaB
Pema Pera: doesn't make any sense at all (male OR female :)
Umbriel Levenque: see... you could be good Pema
Pema Pera: honestly, tell me, what is this Being -- a new sect?
Pema Pera: a new system?
Umbriel Levenque: (playing devil's advocate)
Fael Illyar: yes, those too.
Pema Pera: is the devil also Being, for example?
Fael Illyar: along with everything else it seems :P
Pema Pera: and if everything Being, what's the value in calling it that way?
Umbriel Levenque finds all these questioning rather stimulating
Pema Pera: It must just be an empty concept
Pema Pera: no wonder you get bored with it in 9 seconds
Fael Illyar: nonconcept :)
Pema Pera: would take me only 1 second, frankly
Umbriel Levenque: righty ho...
Pema Pera: ah, pirates!
Pema Pera: what is a nonconcept?
Fael Illyar never really cared for what the word meant you know ... well, it was fun to imitate others using it.
Pema Pera: ah! So PaB is all about imitating, is that it?
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: or just being cozy together?

I felt I was skirting danger a bit, frankly, hoping not to be toooo convincing (^_^). Also, Fael had found a very direct counterpoint, so I took a break from my attack and focused on that first.

Fael Illyar: Well, I did somehow end up learning a lot about myself in the process.
Umbriel Levenque: cozy... yes there's that too
Pema Pera: well, yes, that one part is hard to argue with, I agree, Fael
Pema Pera: I think that is the one core point
Pema Pera: what we get out of it
Pema Pera: and yes, Umbriel, I enjoy that part too :)
Pema Pera thinks he is not quite a good devil's advocate -- he has to practice more
Fael Illyar grins.
Fael Illyar was too convincing.
Pema Pera: :)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: It is hard to hide how much one cares... Pema
Fael Illyar: although might be difficult to get that point home with someone who believes he/she knows all there is to know about him/herself.
Pema Pera: You're right, Fael, when we learn/see something important, there is no longer any point in arguing about whether the ingredients you used made sense individually -- the result is clear
Pema Pera: Yes, indeed
Umbriel Levenque listens
Pema Pera: And yes, Umbriel, that's why I like it -- I like challenges
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: like hiding for a while
Umbriel Levenque: haha
Umbriel Levenque: (as if that's possible Pema)
Faenik: なるほど^^

But I wasn't going to give up so easily, though.

Pema Pera: The next move, if I would go on, would be to try to convince Fael that she has fooled herself, in only *thinking* that she learned something valuable . . . . . (said Pema picking up the challenge again)
Pema Pera is threading dangerous ground perhaps, but enjoys it tremendously!
Fael Illyar ponders 'Did I learn something?'
Umbriel Levenque wants to agree with Pema but fears... somewhat of a possible retaliation after the session
Fael Illyar raises an eyebrow at Umbriel.
Pema Pera: "trial by fire"
Faenik: could be
Umbriel Levenque: Just a harmless discussion this Fael... relax hey
Pema Pera: not altogether harmless perhaps -- interesting question. To test something, to hone or polish, there is a right time; do it too early and you can cause damage . . . .
Pema Pera: do it too late, and you can become selfsatisfied and boring for people around you
Umbriel Levenque: right time... what do you mean Pema?
Pema Pera: shooting down a new idea with a cynical remark is easy -- premature testing/killing the idea
Pema Pera: letting everything just grow as it want without being critical isn't very helpful either
Pema Pera: so there is a balance, like with everything.
Umbriel Levenque nods
Umbriel Levenque: that 'illusive' middle way Pema
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: Fael, are you pondering whether/what you learned?
Fael Illyar: Yes
Umbriel Levenque worries about being boring to others...
Fael Illyar: Well, whatever it was I learned/didn't learn. I'm very much happier right now :)
Fael Illyar: or perhaps unlearned
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera: Yes, isn't it amazing how hard it is to put words to whatever it is that has changed?
Pema Pera: if you could easily put words to it, the change wouldn't have been very fundamental . . . ..
Umbriel Levenque ponders of the importance of 'unlearning/re-learning'
Fael Illyar: it's quite not done yet.
Umbriel Levenque: the changes are continuous... I gather. We don't stop at a certain point?

Continuity and discontinuity, gradual and sudden, the role of time in how we seem to mature, all of these are some of the hardest topics to become clear of. We really got ourselves into a heavy conversation, this morning!

Pema Pera: yes and no -- for both
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: that's the fun part -- what makes it not fit in our existing categories
Umbriel Levenque: depends on how one looks at time I guess
Fael Illyar: we can stop ... but ...
Pema Pera: changes are continuous for a while, and then you realize there is nothing that can be changed, and then you see the ongoing changes in a very different light, and then much later once more on a much deeper level yo see that REALLY nothing can be changed but in a much more profound way and again you see the ongoing changes in yet again a very very different light, and so on -- a continuity of discontinuities, very paradoxical when putd.
Umbriel Levenque nods
Pema Pera: *when put into words, but very natural when experienced
Pema Pera: (amazing how sometimes whole lines drop out -- another discontunieety
Umbriel Levenque has hit the plateau for now
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Pema Pera: so because real progress is SO VERY paradoxical, this means that every Devil's advocate is more or less right in any objection!
Pema Pera: And wrong at the same time
Fael Illyar: just looks like a plateau :)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: possibly big changes in one's life help one to move into a deeper level after a period of staying on a plateau
Pema Pera: oh yes, progress is far from linear!
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar has thought several times that she has reached a plateau but it's so far always turned out not to have been that.
Umbriel Levenque: ah...
Pema Pera: yes, Fael, I know the feeling . . . .
Pema Pera: (and then light appeared)
Fael Illyar: umm... light?
Fael Illyar: ah, yues

Somehow SL had been lighting up quite suddenly.

Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: Good night Pema. Catch up soon again.
Umbriel Levenque: Peace and Love
Umbriel Levenque: See you later Fael
Fael Illyar: Good night Pema :)
Pema Pera: good night, Fael!
Pema Pera: Good night Umbriel!
Pema Pera: or mid-day :)
Fael Illyar smiles.
Fael Illyar: Sleep well :)
Pema Pera: thanks, will do in a few minutes!
Pema Pera: btw
Pema Pera: it would be great to sing the song with Moon in your current costume!

I was commenting on Fael's beautiful white garb with wide and full angelic wings.

Fael Illyar grins.
Fael Illyar: works better in places with less heavy particles around the surroundings
Pema Pera: clap clap clap!
Pema Pera: wonderful combination, with light and costume!
Fael Illyar smiles.
Pema Pera: well, I'll sign off myself
Pema Pera: c u !
Fael Illyar: good night :)
Pema Pera: good day!

Alas, I had not been quick enough to take a snapshot of Fael's song, with my lag and freezing up of laptop. So I'll have to leave you with a verbal description of Fael's performing splendor!