2008.09.14 08:00 - Let It Flow

This Sunday morning, 8 am SLT, we had another weekly guardian meeting in the Hall of Appearance in Rieul, near the North border with Magoja, a little to the West of the center. We talked about a mix of practical organizational questions and more content-oriented aspects of our Play as Being explorations. I, Pema, provide the text here without comment.

Moon Fargis: hi:) (first one :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Moon
Moon Fargis: greetings pema
Pema Pera: Hi Moon!
Storm Nordwind: Gaya, Adams and Pia are in the Pavilion
Pema Pera: Hi Quen!
quen Oh: hello Pema, Storm, Moon, genesis
Storm Nordwind: Hi quen
quen Oh smiles
genesis Zhangsun: Hi all!
Pema Pera: Hi Gaya, Doug, Syl!
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Sylectra Darwin: hihi!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Sylectra Darwin: waiting to rez...one moment
doug Sosa: hi :)
Faenik giggles. that tickles.
quen Oh: hey Adams, Doug, Syl and Gaya!
Moon Fargis: hi everyone
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
Sylectra Darwin: Good morning/afternoon!
Pema Pera: hi Pia!
quen Oh hopes her hat is not blocking Doug's view..
quen Oh: hey Pia :-)
Pia Iger: Hello, everyone,
doug Sosa: a hat is a view!
quen Oh grins...
Pema Pera: While we are all still rezzing, it seems, does anyone like to bring up a topic?
Moon Fargis: yep
Moon Fargis: well i collected now several stuff for the library... koans, notecards.. alot of notecards from isen... sutras aso. but now we have to think about where we want to build the pab library
quen Oh: nice! there is going to be a library?
Adams Rubble: Would it fit in one of the rooms ehere?
quen Oh: where you can virtually hang and read things?
Moon Fargis: hmm
Storm Nordwind: Or two?
Moon Fargis: i doubt so
Adams Rubble: or three :)
Moon Fargis: ah
Moon Fargis: hehe
Moon Fargis: hmm lets see
Faenik: indeed?
Storm Nordwind: The stuff in them (barring us and this room) doesn not necessarily have to stay
Pema Pera: Alternatively, we can build something near the new pavilion, i.e. near the welcome center?
Pema Pera: hi Artemisia!
Storm Nordwind: yes that would work too
quen Oh definitely has to do more touring on this sim :-)
Sylectra Darwin: It seems like we have the space and the talented builders for an additional building. :)
Pia Iger: Hi, Artemisia
quen Oh: hello Artemisia :-)
Artemisia Svoboda: hi everyone
Sylectra Darwin: Won't be long until we need little walkways and stuff.
Sylectra Darwin: Hello Artemisia
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Artemisia Svoboda: hello
Moon Fargis: well if we would build the library in here we have to delete the nice furniture.. wich would be sad
Storm Nordwind: On the other hand we are not yet making full use of this one. So it depends on whether more than space is needed. perhaps a particular architectural form?
Sylectra Darwin: very.
Sylectra Darwin: Well....
quen Oh: or flowertrails... as walking comfort not really count, only to recognise a paht
quen Oh: paht*
Sylectra Darwin: there is still the project of the scanned pictures and text from Pema's book.
quen Oh: grrr path*
Pema Pera: Storm, we have about 80x80 m adjacent to the welcome area, and we were thinking of making that a kind of exhibition for PaB
Sylectra Darwin: Where we put that is still flexible, though.
Storm Nordwind: Yes. That would be good
Moon Fargis: well a own place would be better i think, then also people would run around here when whe have a guardian meeting
Pema Pera: yes, Syl, but that would be one of several possible projects, part of the library now, I think
Moon Fargis: wouldnt
Pema Pera: Storm, have yuo given thougth to the PaB welcome center structure near that new pavilion?
Storm Nordwind: Not yet
Pema Pera: a library would be a natural part of that
Storm Nordwind: Indeed
Pema Pera: an exhibition room perhaps
Pema Pera: a kind of gallery
Pema Pera: multi-media in general
Pema Pera: an introductory movie a la YouTube
quen Oh: very nice to combine all that..
Pema Pera: Moon, I presume the library could include pictures too?
Moon Fargis: sure
Storm Nordwind: What time frame do you need this in Moon?
Sylectra Darwin: Yes, that sounds like a great plan!
Sylectra Darwin: brb - doggie needs bathroom break
Moon Fargis: storm: no time plan yet
doug Sosa: Let's think about how it would be used. One person and what happens when there are more than one.
Moon Fargis: so enought time to think about
quen Oh: overview for the new entrants and to see other people who are possibly there can be something to take in account..?
Pema Pera: it could be a meeting place too, yes
Pema Pera: bookstore-cafe idea
Moon Fargis: how much prims do we get left for tat ?
quen Oh: as wandering around in closed volumes which are deserted not always very attractive
Faenik: ah :)
quen Oh nods enghusiast
quen Oh: g=t
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera: Well, shall we discuss this further on the email group?
Pema Pera: seems like we have a start of a good idea!
Moon Fargis: well ok
Pema Pera: How are the sessions going in general?
Pema Pera: Are we happy with the way we talk about our PaB explorations?
quen Oh has a exhibition-library-meeting pavillion which is alas never been used
Moon Fargis: no problems here ;)
Pema Pera: Do we feel we need more freedom, more structure, more specific ideas?
doug Sosa: quen, where?
quen Oh: on my sky plot of land.. was built for a guy who wanted to give lectures
quen Oh: but he had second thoughts concerning his time
Sylectra Darwin: hmmm, a lecture hall?
quen Oh: yes
doug Sosa: can it be visited?
Faenik: why not?
quen Oh: with a library-discussion cafe
quen Oh: yes it can
Adams Rubble: I am pleased with the way the sessions are going
quen Oh: can tp you after this meeting if you want
Pia Iger: back to Pema's question, I think nothing needs now. let it flow.
doug Sosa: yes.
Pema Pera: Quen, perhaps you and Moon and Storm can discuss your idea -- would be good to check!
quen Oh: ok you are always welcome to visit it, maybe brings you new ideas
Pema Pera: Glad to hear that, Adams and Pia
Sylectra Darwin: I would like to see it too. If possible
Pema Pera: And also, thank you Pia for continuing to improve the excerpts section!
Pia Iger: you are welcome.
Pema Pera: anyone who'd like to see Quen's library, please contact Quen directly
genesis Zhangsun: Perhaps its just me but felt like things have slowed down a bit in Pab?
Pema Pera: You may have noticed that Pia has put direct pointers from the introduction to PaB to one of teh excerpts, the section where people testify about what PaB has done for them
genesis Zhangsun: I don't know if that is just me?
Sylectra Darwin: I noticed it too, Genesis.
Sylectra Darwin: We might want to experiment with ways to spread the word.
Adams Rubble: I had slowed down and was concerned about it. Last night at the PaB session I picked up a new tip which helped me see my recent struggle better
genesis Zhangsun: please share
quen Oh: nice work Pia!
Adams Rubble: Adelene and Stim were talking about cause and effect
Adams Rubble: and Doug too
Pia Iger: yes, the attendance and zest is down. but the talk is more integrated with real issues. More grounded talk, if I may say.
genesis Zhangsun: Yes sorry to change topic amazing job Pia!
Pema Pera: Adams, can you say more?
Adams Rubble: and Adelene noted how she was watching her nehavior and how it related to her thoughts
Adams Rubble: behavior
Adams Rubble: I had watched thoughts but never my actions
Adams Rubble: Looking back at the last two weeks, it is my behavior that was more interesting
quen Oh: what can be of help for interested people is to put a 'pick' in your profile with some information? have done that..
Adams Rubble: I ccan see that much of my behavior was coming from my "self"
Adams Rubble: and I began to see my limitations in a new light
Faenik loves wells!
Adams Rubble: thanls PaB!
Sylectra Darwin: what a nice observation, Adams.
doug Sosa: Adelene was describing how she detaches her thoughts from acting but then her body goes and does something (get fast food) anyway.
Adams Rubble: Yes Doug, my observation was different but it was what worked for me
Pia Iger: it's not that once you have realization, your behaviour will change right away. Need more work for real change.
Adams Rubble: Yes Pia. In my case I see my limitations more clearly
doug Sosa: Raises for me the question (again) what is real? the real strawberry, the dreamed strawberry, the digital strawberry? The one seen but not tasted, the one tasted and now gone?
Adams Rubble: I can change them or avoid the situations where they are in play
genesis Zhangsun: Nice way to say that Doug
genesis Zhangsun: a nice image the strawberry
doug Sosa: tasty, there's the rub.
quen Oh: hello Fael :-)
doug Sosa: But in the same way, is Palin rel, or an illusion? A "mere" presentation of apperance, or something we need to cope with?
Pema Pera: hi Fael!
Fael Illyar: Hi everyone :)
Adams Rubble groans
Fael Illyar: Sorry I'm a bit late.
Moon Fargis: rehi fael
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Rubble: Hi Fael (not at you) :)
Pia Iger: my observation is that few people come to meeting very frequently as before, but their talk are more meaningful. (a bit judgemental here) Feel PaB is growing naturally.
doug Sosa: But I've noticed that those who come are building real intimacy, but the number is few.
Adams Rubble: Might attendance have something to do with summer being over?
Pema Pera: it may be natural waves too; some weeks are more intense, some less; and in September many connected to academia get more outside things to keep busy with
Storm Nordwind: The traffic on the pavilion land seems still to be 1000 +/- 200 as normal
Pema Pera: I think we'll get an influx of some new people when the Kira alumni will appear, in the next few weeks
Pia Iger: anyway, I was saying I feel comfortable with what happens now.
Pema Pera: yes, me too
Moon Fargis: kira alumni
Pema Pera: there are advantages and disadvantages of growth :)
doug Sosa: In fact if we lose the imtimacy it will be a loss. Right now the conversation has a spontaneity to it, and warm feelings of trust and acceptance.
Pia Iger: nicely said, Doug
quen Oh: and more people can make it very very complex sometimes..
Moon Fargis: yes always keep in mind, its a conversation and no teaching :)
Sylectra Darwin: good points.
quen Oh: they can produce too much typing to keep up with.. that can be little stressful
Faenik loves wells!
Sylectra Darwin: If we feel the need to cautiously add more people, what can we try? Maybe group notices from time to time?
Pema Pera: I like Quen's idea of adding PaB as a pick to our profile
Pema Pera: perhaps good to do after we move to the new pavilion
Pema Pera: We have been thinking about October 1 as the date
Pema Pera: we have been waiting a couple months to get autorecording in place
Fael Illyar has had the Pavilion in her picks for a few weeks already.
Sylectra Darwin: That sounds great!
Pema Pera: Ah, I see, Fael, yes, good idea!
Adams Rubble has been stopping by Wol's and leaving an autmessage from time to time
Fael Illyar: autmessage?
Adams Rubble: Wol has a test set up on her land
Pema Pera: ah!
quen Oh has that too, with the text of last meeting..
Pia Iger: ?
Pia Iger: Quen has the auto recorder?
quen Oh: ?? what is an auto recorder
Pema Pera: Wol has told us that October 1 is the target date for getting automatic recording working
Pia Iger: ok, misunderstanding., Quen
quen Oh: ah.. read back and now see it Pia, meant the pick in profile
Pema Pera: Quen, we are hoping to get a script running so that the guardians don't have to manually record sessions anymore
Pema Pera: hopefully in a few weeks that will be in place
Pema Pera: but we'll need a few more weeks to make sure it all works
Faenik: indeed?
quen Oh: nice! and can that even be so advanced it puts itself on the wiki too? gosh.. I don't know much about programming..
Pema Pera: that's the idea, yes
quen Oh: amazing!
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: If I may change the topic for a moment
Pema Pera: as for the basic 9-sec explorations
quen Oh: in that case I assume the new visitors can read somewhere too that they are recorded, in case we forget to tell immediately?
Pema Pera: yes, Quen, we
Pema Pera: have thought about these things at length
Gaya Ethaniel: wb doug
quen Oh: :-)
Pema Pera: and we're trying to deal with it
Pema Pera: it has been a long saga believe me!
quen Oh: brilliant!!
Pema Pera: Wol can tell you about it in more detail than you may want to hear :-)
Pema Pera: As for teh 9-sec explorations
doug Sosa: hm, no keyboard yet..
quen Oh grins
Pema Pera: does anyone want to say something about their experience in writing down a few words every 15 minutes, not only doing it but also writing something?
Pema Pera: Of course we know Adams does it, and puts it on her blog
Pema Pera: I'm curious how many others do it regularly, and what their experiences are
Artemisia Svoboda: I do it somtimes
Storm Nordwind: I found it useful to do so and publish it at first, for the first week or so.
Storm Nordwind: Then I moved on to more specific incidents or exercises
Sylectra Darwin: I do it a few times a day - would really like to make that more frequent and see what happens.
Adams Rubble: I am noticing that my weeknd experience is very different than weekday when I have less time and just keep a record
genesis Zhangsun: Could you explain Pema the benefit of writing down?
Pia Iger: I 've been doing that, the notes are good reminders to me of what I see in 9sec. some of them are true insights. if not write down, they would just lost in memory.
genesis Zhangsun: sorry if this is a silly question ;)
Artemisia Svoboda: to me, writing down a few words still feels like a chore
Pia Iger: a chore, but very worthwhile to me.
Adams Rubble: I can't stop doing it :)
Fael Illyar: if it feels like a chore, it's better to not do it :)
Pema Pera: great question, Gen, but a question that I hope everyone will try to answer for themselves :)
Fael Illyar: might end up with you not doing them at all if you're too sturbborn about it
Pema Pera: a chore can be a good thing too, Fael, for a while
Artemisia Svoboda: I think Fael is right
Pema Pera: if it remains a chore for a very long time, you may want to stop it
Pema Pera: but reluctance can have many reasons
Pema Pera: not always good reasons to give in right away
Pia Iger: it's not bad to use a gentle push, a little discipline
Artemisia Svoboda: yes, Pema, I agree
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pema Pera: it's always a matter of balance
genesis Zhangsun: sure and it never hurts to try something at least for a week
genesis Zhangsun: and then judge
Adams Rubble: It is when I am the busiest and most distracted that I find I need the discipline
Storm Nordwind: It is a potential tool. Needs time to evaluate. You end up evaluating yourself at the same time :)
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera: and in a traditional group a teacher would hold up a mirror to show you when you are feeling reluctant for the wrong reason -- it will be interesting to see whether we can collectively educate ourselves and others as a group of peers without a central teacher -- as we are doing right now!
Adams Rubble not sure she wants to be a twitterer
Pema Pera: you are already to a large extent, Adams :)
Pema Pera: more than most of us!
genesis Zhangsun: I find it a bit of a chore like others but perhaps that is the whole problem
Fael Illyar: I did write down things at first but then it just fell out.
genesis Zhangsun: if I am seeing this as a chore what else am I finding to be chore
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps everything?
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: I was not suggesting we all publish all that we write -- more to experiment with it for ourselves, to give the very act of writing a chance
doug Sosa: battery in my wireless keyboard gave out, crahed system :)
quen Oh is used to write things down and make sketches all the time.. but thats perhaps different
Pia Iger: wb, Doug.
Sylectra Darwin: Twitter might make it easier though - especially since you can Twitter from your cell phone.
Sylectra Darwin: Maybe that's what I will try next.
Pema Pera: One option is do write for a week, then not write for a week, and to compare
Adams Rubble: cell phone?
doug Sosa: battery in wireless keyboard gave out, crahed system.
doug Sosa: crashed.
Moon Fargis: ahh windows then
Pia Iger: mmh, many ways to write notes. as long as we do it.
Pema Pera: Coming back to Gen's question: speaking personally, just for myself, I find writing down helps me to catch insights that my memory is not ready to record, sicne it doesn't fit into the categories of the ordinary mind
Pema Pera: I would lose half of my insights, without writing down, and probably the more important half
Pema Pera: and without writing them down, I woldn't even know that I had lost them!
Gaya Ethaniel also finds it useful to look back at her diary at a later date
Pema Pera: but again, that is just me -- we can all experiment for ourselves
quen Oh: finds rereading things you write down after some time can put things in place better and offer quite surprising perspectives..
Fael Illyar: things that are important will pop up again, later. Even without writing them down
Pema Pera: yes, probably
Storm Nordwind: There is a separate step anyway, of writing them down and then publishing them. Some people don't want to publish because it would inhibit them. For others, publishing is an extra impetus to recording things in the first place
Faenik: ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel: There is no right or wrong way Fael. Whatever suits you
genesis Zhangsun: I think writing down does help make connections between insights faster
Pema Pera: but it may be less efficient perhaps, Fael; something to try and test
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps it is not necessary
genesis Zhangsun: yes precisely Pema you said it
Pema Pera: yes, storm, I was not addressing publishing -- only writing down
Adams Rubble: Publishing is a two-edged sword
genesis Zhangsun: I find that insights build on eachother
genesis Zhangsun: until finally a big shift happens
genesis Zhangsun: writing down can prevent pieces of the puzzle from falling out
Pia Iger: sometimes I reread my old notes, was surprised that I already had that kind of realization before, which I alreay forgot. To write, reread, can help to deepen and really integrated what you have seen.
Sylectra Darwin: Really nice thoughts here.
genesis Zhangsun: I don't write every fifteen seconds but I write every night in a journal
genesis Zhangsun: this helps me
Pema Pera: Since I find it useful, I'm curious what other people find, and I am especially curious whether we can do a kind of "joint research" to see whether we can find ways to test whether our preferences are just a matter of taste or whether we can find out whether we can learn from each other in some way
genesis Zhangsun: oops 15 minutes
Moon Fargis: sorry i have to go now see you later everyone
Adams Rubble: bye Moon :)
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: bye Moon
Pema Pera: We should be wrapping up too, in a couple minutes
Pia Iger: bye, Moon.
doug Sosa: :)
quen Oh: bye Moon
genesis Zhangsun: Wonderful idea though Pema
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps we can find a methodology of some sort
Storm Nordwind: Not just a matter of taste but a matter of ability. There are differences in preferred learning styles that make one practice not best for another
genesis Zhangsun: to compare
Pema Pera: wonderful feedback from all of you!
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pema Pera: yes, Storm, and the question is whether we can learn to discriminate between the two
Pema Pera: that would be fascinating
Storm Nordwind nods
Pema Pera: it is traditionally the role of a teacher
Pema Pera: can we as peers help each other to do this?
Pema Pera: to see which person has a natural need/ability for a certain kind of practice?
genesis Zhangsun: Lets pick up this thread next week
genesis Zhangsun: it is a very interesting question
Pema Pera: that would be a unique breakthrough!
Storm Nordwind: It is also - in modern tradition - the province of the questionnaire
Pema Pera: yes, Gen, let's put it on the agenda
Pema Pera: for next week
doug Sosa: I will be gone the next three weeks, painting in Umbria.
Pema Pera: lucky you!
genesis Zhangsun: how lovely doug!
Sylectra Darwin: Wow Doug!
Pia Iger: for now, we can encourage everyone to do in their own comfortable way, then in a wk or two, we can compare.
genesis Zhangsun: Hmm...interesting idea to create a questionnaire
genesis Zhangsun: Should I try to come up with one?
doug Sosa: each day you get up and face a new blank canvass.
Pema Pera: sure!
quen Oh: if people want to see the library/lecture/meeting pavillion, I can tp you
Storm Nordwind: Faenik: why not?
genesis Zhangsun: I could post it on the wiki
genesis Zhangsun: and we can all add to it
genesis Zhangsun: make it truly joint project
Pema Pera: sure Gen
genesis Zhangsun: I'll put some down but the rest is up to all of you
Pema Pera: thank you all for joining us, and see you next week!
Gaya Ethaniel: Good day/evening.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: Good night
Pia Iger: bye, everyone.
Adams Rubble: bye everyone :)
quen Oh: bye
Artemisia Svoboda: bye bye
Pema Pera: bye all!