2008.09.13 13:00 - Kira Cafe (under construction) and Mission Statement

The guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

I dropped into the pavilion from the clouds, though this meeting was going to move back above the clouds shortly! I poured myself a cup of tea and waited. After a while, Adams turned up. Her avatar was almost unrecognisable at first due to severe lag, and I thought grunge or even cyberpunk fashion had reached her real life home!

Adams Rubble: Hello Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Adams
Storm Nordwind: I have not seen this avatar before :)
Adams Rubble: ?
Adams Rubble: I am Adams :)
Storm Nordwind: I believe you. :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Thanks
Storm Nordwind: It took a long time to rez
Adams Rubble: Bad lag today
Storm Nordwind: I am in deepest Scotland remember
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: We only invented communicating by wet string last year

Thoughts of childhood games with walkie-talkies made of tin cans. Meanwhile, Adams had now resolved into something recognisable.

Adams Rubble: Anyway, how are you?
Storm Nordwind: Well I'm happy. My fiancee is over for a week :)
Adams Rubble: That's right. That's great!
Storm Nordwind: And she'll be here again in November. And perhaps that will be the last time she needs to be. Well there's hoping!
Adams Rubble: I wish you well :)
Storm Nordwind: Thank you so much. It is much appreciated!
Storm Nordwind: It's meant that I've been rather less active on SL this week though! Got a backlog of building to do now
Adams Rubble: Well I am sure it can wait :)

In real life, Autumn was approaching early this year for me. Many trees were turning golden brown so soon. The weather was changing fast. And already I was feeling the lack of light under the weeping grey skies. Perhaps this was having a more widespread effect...

Adams Rubble: I haven't been very active this week early and I have the vague idea that things may have slowed down in general
Storm Nordwind: Really?
Adams Rubble: Maybe with September
Storm Nordwind: You mean in SL? Or PaB? Or something else?
Adams Rubble: in PaB
Storm Nordwind: Oh!
Adams Rubble thinks lag is slowing down SL
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: So what is the measure of the speed of PaB? :)
Adams Rubble thinks maybe she went out on a limb of ignorance
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Adams Rubble: I guess I am judging by email
Storm Nordwind: Ah I see

I checked the traffic figures for the pavilion. Anyone can do this for any plot in Second Life. Right click on a piece of land and select About Land if you're not standing on it. But there's a shortcut if you're already there...

Storm Nordwind: Well the traffic here is healthy
Adams Rubble: you mean in the sessions?
Storm Nordwind: I don't know. I was just looking at the LL figure.
Adams Rubble: LL?
Storm Nordwind: Linden Labs
Storm Nordwind: For this plot of land
Adams Rubble: Oh, I didn't know you could do that
Adams Rubble: neat
Storm Nordwind: You see the title at the top of the screen? Click on it
Storm Nordwind: You see a figure for traffic?
Adams Rubble: I see 809
Storm Nordwind: That's right. Fairly healthy
Adams Rubble: Is that a week?
Storm Nordwind: No a day
Adams Rubble: Wow!
Storm Nordwind: Ah... it's not what it seems
Storm Nordwind: There's a complicated way of measuring that goes into that
Storm Nordwind: But basically it's this
Storm Nordwind: AVatars that are here for less than some preset time (a minute, maybe five - can't remember) are ignored
Storm Nordwind: After that, it's the number of avatar-minutes in total for 24 hours
Storm Nordwind: I think. Don't quote me! :)
Storm Nordwind knows this will be quoted on the chatlog!
Adams Rubble: I see so it is minutes not people
Storm Nordwind: yes
Storm Nordwind: So that means an average of 200 avatar-minutes per session
Adams Rubble: When I do a search on places there is a number. Is that the same number?
Storm Nordwind: probably
Adams Rubble: But there are often people lurking
Storm Nordwind: But it means, say, and average of 5 people for 40 minutes for each session
Storm Nordwind: Sure
Adams Rubble: Another question. Is that the pavilion for Rieul?
Storm Nordwind: That is just for the small plot of land that this pavilion is on
Adams Rubble: I was at two sessions for 1/2 hour each
Storm Nordwind: Then you will be counting towards it
Adams Rubble trying to remember how many others were there
Storm Nordwind: The land is this pavilion and the land to the east up to the pink cherry tree
Adams Rubble: Ah no, I was at the 7pm Thursday not Friday
Adams Rubble: Ah
Storm Nordwind: I think 1000 a day, plus or minus, is good
Adams Rubble: I guess Pema's house is beyond the tree?
Storm Nordwind: Pema's house is to the north not the east
Adams Rubble: Ah I see (just looked with camera)
Storm Nordwind: The Zen retreat gets about the same each day too
Adams Rubble: Hmm. They've been drawing big crowds at meditation but that is once a day for 20 minutes. OK makes sense
Storm Nordwind: Some plots of land depend on the day of the week. I used to get more on the Kuan Yin Terraces on some days. Today (just checking) is a lot less.
Adams Rubble not so great in SL directions
Adams Rubble: hehe
Storm Nordwind: That's what the minimap is for!
Adams Rubble used big map
Storm Nordwind: The big map doesn't rotate to the direction you're looking
Storm Nordwind: But you can make the minimap do that
Adams Rubble: I see :)
Adams Rubble: wow. It's a long way to pink tree

At that point I saw Pema come online. It must have been 5:25am where he was in Kyoto!

Storm Nordwind: Wow. Pema can't sleep!
Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
Storm Nordwind: Welcome Pema!
Pema Pera: good day!
Adams Rubble: Good morning to you :)
Storm Nordwind: We are a select group this evening, morning, afternoon
Pema Pera: (slooooowly rezzzzing)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: one continent each :>)
Adams Rubble: everything is slow today :)
Adams Rubble: Storm has been teaching me SL tricks :)
Storm Nordwind: I was just looking at the traffic for the pavilion and it's 809 which is reasonable
Pema Pera: Ah!
Storm Nordwind: I was explaining (roughly) how that number is calculated
Pema Pera: avatar hours or such?
Storm Nordwind: Well according to what I've read, there is a minimum threshold
Storm Nordwind: Avatars would have to be present for a certain time to count - perhaps a minute or five
Storm Nordwind: After that i think it's avatar-minutes
Storm Nordwind: 800 is lower than I've seen, but still healthy I believe
Storm Nordwind: So beyond commenting on how busy it is, or not, we had not dug into PaB topics so far

The bell sounded for the half-hour.

Pema Pera: Well, given that there is no one else besides us old-timers, and that it is exactly 1:30, how about visiting the Kira Cafe?
Pema Pera: I still haven't seen it, believe it or not!
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: OK
Storm Nordwind: You haven't? Well, there's still a lot to do - as I've said.
Pema Pera: yes, but do you think it is a good time to get a first impression?
Storm Nordwind: Sure.
Storm Nordwind: I can show you.
Pema Pera: Adams, interested?
Storm Nordwind: Please be careful not to trip over the plywood
Adams Rubble: yes, be glad to see. You'll tp us Storm?
Storm Nordwind: It would be better on voice though
Adams Rubble: Ah, I have no voice alas
Storm Nordwind: np
Storm Nordwind: I'll exercise my fingers!
Pema Pera: :-)

So I went to the site of the new Kira Cafe, floating above the clouds more than 150 metres above the ground. If you want to fly around here you need an aid like the "Flight Feather". I teleported my friends in, and - like a newbie - forgot to rotate myself between invitations. So they materialised on top of each other! Mea culpa.

Storm Nordwind: You're intersected!
Adams Rubble: ?
Storm Nordwind: It's ok now

The Kira Cafe is still under construction. The main structure is there and most of the floor plan. It still needs all the windows, including the dormers (skylights). And most of the cladding is missing at the moment to ease construction. Out at the front was a test area full of experimental tables and chairs for the cafe that my fiancee Jobe Nurmi had been creating during the week. I started to show them around...

Storm Nordwind: Jobe has been experimenting with new chairs out on a test area
Storm Nordwind: The cafe has two main entrances. They will be under these portals
Storm Nordwind: The bar and lounge will be here... it looks bare as it's the last I will do
Storm Nordwind: The main cafe area will be here ... fire here ... booths for IM around the edges
Pema Pera: that's a great idea
Pema Pera: and given the size I can see now how it can seat 70 people for a talk or lecture or panel discussion
Storm Nordwind: yes but watch this - please follow

I took the up the stairs to overlook the main cafe area. We played around with the chat-audibility tool I had set up.

Storm Nordwind: We have a gallery!
Pema Pera: very nice!
Storm Nordwind: Chairs and tables can go all around the side
Pema Pera: so that makes it easier to have many people within earshot
Storm Nordwind: Imagine the speaker where the red box is
Pema Pera: ah yes
Storm Nordwind: The ball on the box will speak if you touch it
Storm Nordwind: go to the edge and see
test speaker: Touched.
test speaker: Touched.
Storm Nordwind: I heard that
Adams Rubble: :)
test speaker: Touched.
Storm Nordwind: So we are all in range
test speaker: Touched.
Storm Nordwind: It's all VERY carefully measured
test speaker: Touched.
test speaker: Touched.
Pema Pera: wow
Pema Pera: what happens when I right-click touch the ball?
Storm Nordwind: no difference
Pema Pera: should I hear something?
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: it tests
Storm Nordwind: go closer
Pema Pera: and speaks the line
Storm Nordwind: to here
Pema Pera: "test speaker: Touched"
Storm Nordwind: yes
Pema Pera: okay, got it
Storm Nordwind: that's a range checker
Pema Pera: the space feels great
Pema Pera: the way everything is captured under one large roof
Storm Nordwind: Look over here from this balcony the other way
Pema Pera: so that's the bar area
Storm Nordwind: The red line on the ground indicated the distance that people will hear in the hall area
Pema Pera: ah!
Storm Nordwind: so the lounge and entrance is therefore beyond that
Storm Nordwind: And I fill the space between with stairs and a fountain
Pema Pera: ah yes
Storm Nordwind: and random plants later
Pema Pera: great design!
Storm Nordwind: It looks bare because the design was the slowest part
Pema Pera: yes
Storm Nordwind: now the decorating and cladding will be fairly quick
Storm Nordwind: Let me show you the sign above this entrance
Storm Nordwind: There will either be windows or just siding below it
Pema Pera: ah, great, the logo!
Storm Nordwind: Yes. Jobe is here in Scotland with me this week so I asked her to do it one afternoon while I was at work
Storm Nordwind: It's white not black

The original Kira logo has black lettering.

Pema Pera: wow, very nice
Storm Nordwind: and says Cafe instead
Pema Pera: sure ... perfect ... fits right in ... please thank her from me!
Adams Rubble: Yes, very nicely done
Storm Nordwind: She also designed a nice new chair for the cafe area
Storm Nordwind: Needs pose animations yet but still very nice
Storm Nordwind: Ignore the table design!
Pema Pera: Adams, you were one of the first to visit the currently used pavilion, remember?
Storm Nordwind: It'll be better with proper poses!
Pema Pera: that was late in June I believe
Adams Rubble: Yes, not one of my better days :)
Pema Pera: hahaha, you and your bottle
Adams Rubble: Should I Christen this one?
Storm Nordwind: THAT LONG AGO!?

We all sat down and poured ourselves a rather more substantial drink. I sat with a tankard of foaming Guinness.

Pema Pera: I guess, Storm, we are the first visitors? Or have you had earlier ones?
Heineken whispers: Drink up!
Storm Nordwind: Pretty much
Pema Pera: The first visitors during a PaB session for sure
Pema Pera: the other one was a PaB session too
Storm Nordwind: Well Jobe goes back on Tuesday, so I'll have time to finish this before the weekend!
mai ti luau drink whispers: MMm MMM good!
Adams Rubble: OK, may it have a long and prosperous life
Storm Nordwind hiccups
Pema Pera: yes, indeed!
Storm Nordwind: Actually this area we're sitting on won't be here
Storm Nordwind: It's just a copy of the floor inside
Storm Nordwind: In case the wrong one gets deleted!
Storm Nordwind: There will be a veranda most of the way round too
Pema Pera: we all appreciate tremendously what you're doing, Storm
Adams Rubble: Yes, wonderful work
Storm Nordwind: I wish I had a finished article to present
Pema Pera: This is an amazing build, I am only now seeing the scale of it
Pema Pera: oh no
Pema Pera: much more interesting to see it in progress!
Pema Pera: we'll see the finished part often enough

Pema took the opportunity to explain to Adams about the Kira Cafe - but first something about the Kira mission statement.

Pema Pera: Adams, have you heard anything at all about the Kira Cafe so far?
Adams Rubble: No this is the first time
Pema Pera: ah, nice!
Pema Pera: The idea is that "Play as Being" is primarily for those interested in going all the way to Being to focus on as a resource
Pema Pera: and this is a more general place for anyone interested in Kira, and in play, but not necessarily in Being
Pema Pera: although all PaB folks are of course more than welcome
Pema Pera: Kira is about exploration, in an open group way, like PaB, that part is similar
Pema Pera: in Kira, we have four slogans, to some things up very briefly
Pema Pera: starting with the fact that science has a lot of interesting and valuable things to say about reality, in an empirical and testable way (you could call that #0, as a starting point), the four slogans are:
Pema Pera: 1) what else is true?
Pema Pera: asking the question of whether there are other experience-based approaches to seeing into reality;
Pema Pera: 2) ways of knowing
Pema Pera: inviting us to find those other ways and talk about them
Pema Pera: 3) roots not fruits
Pema Pera: starting with a focus on the experiential base of each way of knowing;
Pema Pera: 4) open play
Pema Pera: pointing to the open and playful approach to research, in science as well as in other ways of knowing
Pema Pera: So that's a quick summary of Kira
Storm Nordwind: Do you know, that's a better summary of the mission statement than the mission statement! :)
Adams Rubble: ty
Pema Pera: hehe, Saki and Steven and I had a meeting one day ago
Pema Pera: and in response to that this was my version
Pema Pera: let me echo the less than 200 word version that I sent them afterwords (Steven = Stim suggested to keep it short)
Storm Nordwind: It's shorter, it's better structured, more descriptive = altogether better
Pema Pera: Kira starts with the empirical knowledge provided by science, and asks the question "what else is true". Specifically, which other "ways of knowing" qualify as giving us real insight into the nature of reality, based on experience, and verified and developed further by a community of peers?
Pema Pera: In our comparative research we take a "roots not fruits" approach. What are the roots of science? What are the roots of other ways of knowing, from philosophy to contemplation to art, to name a few? What is common and different in the interplay between theory and experiment?
Pema Pera: Much of our research by necessity falls outside traditional disciplinary boundaries. An attitude of "open play" is our main guide. We start with the playful attitude of science, combining an openness to crazy new ideas with a very serious emphasis on quality control, and try to apply that attitude
to all of our discussions and investigations.
Pema Pera: So the idea is to use those three paragraphs as the mission statement, with the four slogans each clickable to a new page
Pema Pera: each new page then explains that concept in a few more paragraphs
Storm Nordwind: Inspired. Thank you!! :))
Pema Pera: glad you like it!

So Adams asked the understandable question...

Adams Rubble: I know Kira predated PaB but it seems PaB has been very successful. Why the new push of Kira?
Pema Pera: Kira is continuing
Pema Pera: and PaB is not for everybody -- not for most of my colleagues for example
Pema Pera: not everybody is interesting in Being, or in Being Seeing and all that
Storm Nordwind nods
Pema Pera: traditionally, each spiritual approach has had only a tiny core of people that were interesting in and ready for taking in the wodka of a completely direct approach
Pema Pera: in fact, I expect the Kira Cafe to act also as a kind of portal
Pema Pera: people not interested in Being now can mingle here with PaB folks
Pema Pera: and little by little get used to it
Pema Pera: without sitting on cushions
Adams Rubble: Hmmm. Three months ago I would have thought I was not ready for PaB :)
Pema Pera: without being asked here "have you tried the 9 sec yet"
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: hahaha, yes
Storm Nordwind nods
Pema Pera: and reversely, Kira is a way for the PaB people to report back to the world at large what they have found

I pointed out the physical placing of the Kira Cafe.

Storm Nordwind: Actually, the cafe has two entrances, opposite each other
Storm Nordwind: We are on the "contemplative" side here
Pema Pera: ah!
Storm Nordwind: The other side faces the edge of the sim and the Science Park will be through there
Adams Rubble: Ah
Pema Pera: so in a way the Kira Cafe is the interface between PaB and the world at large, from the PaB point of view
Pema Pera: in a completely non-threatening way
Adams Rubble looking for the side facing the art museums :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Storm Nordwind: This side Adams!
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: Behind me is a quadrangle which will have classrooms, meeting rooms and offices and a garden
Storm Nordwind: and I want to flesh out the corridor space with guess what :)
Adams Rubble thinks that structure looks very Indian
Storm Nordwind: It is
Storm Nordwind: Rajasthan
Adams Rubble: Ah :)
Storm Nordwind: Rambagh Palace at Jaipur is the inspiration
Adams Rubble can't guess - will look it up :)

Storm Nordwind: The main rooms are again designed on the 20m rule: "must hear" and "must not hear"
Storm Nordwind: so there is space in the connecting areas for artwork
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: and an atrium or two
Adams Rubble has met a wonderful artist in SL
Storm Nordwind is marrying a professional artist in RL whom he met in SL
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: By the way, I've tried these chair and one of the many table design in the cafe itself
Storm Nordwind: Seems to suit it and we can put more than 60 downstairs, even with tables
Pema Pera is very much looking forward to hanging out in the Cafe!
Storm Nordwind: arranged in threes like we are and another 30 or so upstairs and a bunch in the booths
Pema Pera: We'll have this place open 24/7, which should work, because many more people will be interested in Kira than in PaB
Storm Nordwind: Yes. :)
Pema Pera: My prediction is that within half a year there will be somebody here at any time of day or night
Storm Nordwind: great! The lounge area will have couches and armchairs. I'll make sure the bar is well stocked!
Pema Pera: So to sum up: "spatially" or "knowledge wise" Kira is in between PaB and our world at large -- and "temporally" Kira was what gave birth to PaB, by experimenting with the key ingredients for ten years, until they matured into what then became PaB
Pema Pera: so it is wonderful to have that embodied here in SL now
Pema Pera: much more complete
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: like PaB coming home
Pema Pera: or home coming to PaB
Storm Nordwind: Feels very good!
Adams Rubble: Thank you for sharing :)
Pema Pera: thank you for being (again) the first participant!
Adams Rubble: I do like the design
Pema Pera: yes, me too, very much so!
Storm Nordwind smiles

Pema described how things have grown.

Pema Pera: It is funny how everything has grown so organically -- Kira giving rise to WoK, ways of Knowing, with WoK moving into the virtual world of Qwaq, and after a year there me moving on to SL to start PaB, and then needing money to pay for the PaB land and looking at Kira as the umbrella organization for non-profit grant receiving, and then realizing that in fact it would be good to have Kira be represented here in SL on PaB land, turning the tables so to speak -- and finally realizing that we can represent the historical and temporal way of PaB formation here spatially by having the PaB land be in fact part of the wider Kira land with wider Kira activities, PaB being the crown jewel so to speak of the whole crown of Kira
Storm Nordwind: Wow!
Pema Pera: all without planning or premeditation -- just the way it grew
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: in itself an example of PaB
Storm Nordwind nods
Pema Pera: playing and letting Being express itself
Pema Pera: (us playing and Storm doing all the work)
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: Storm's being playing a bit this week!
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: as a bit player?
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind groans
Pema Pera: couldn't be farther from the truth!
Storm Nordwind: By the way, have you noticed that we have a neighbour who is keeping a tasteful eye on us?
Pema Pera: ?
Storm Nordwind: Look up and to the southwest
Adams Rubble: the tent?
Storm Nordwind: no
Adams Rubble gets out her mini-map
Storm Nordwind: sorry northwest
Pema Pera: blimp?
Storm Nordwind: One of the rental places has a blimp at 300+ metres
Storm Nordwind: yes
Storm Nordwind: Never see anyone there
Storm Nordwind: But it looks ok
Storm Nordwind: And it will be fine with the Atomium like design I have for the Science Park in the next door sim
Pema Pera: have you been inside?
Pema Pera: the blimp?
Storm Nordwind: No
Storm Nordwind: I see it has 6 seats inside
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: I had difficulty looking inside
Storm Nordwind: Edit instead
Pema Pera: btw, Storm, where is the sim boundary, at the other side of the cafe?
Pema Pera: ah!
Storm Nordwind: Let me show you

We walked through the Cafe to the other side.

Storm Nordwind: Check the top of your screen
Pema Pera: yes, that's what I thought, that it was here
Pema Pera: top?
Pema Pera: where how?
Storm Nordwind: I am at Ulreung 2, 94, 251
Pema Pera: ah!
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: so you removed the rest for now
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Adams Rubble: Columbus' crew was right
Pema Pera: lol, Adams!
Pema Pera: yes, this seems fine for now!
Adams Rubble: Think the scientists will notice?
Storm Nordwind: The Atomium-like structure will start from beyond the other side
Pema Pera: great!
Adams Rubble: Ah, we are in the sky?
Storm Nordwind: Yes we are Adams
Adams Rubble: OK
Storm Nordwind: You are floating 150m above ground
Adams Rubble shudders
Pema Pera: :)
Storm Nordwind will not push... not hard at least
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble inches away from the dge
Pema Pera: :-)
Adams Rubble: Thank you for showing me everything
Pema Pera: thanks for coming over!
Pema Pera: I hadn't seen any of it yet either
Pema Pera: so it was fun to share the first impressions
Storm Nordwind: Come back in a week and you will see it complete
Storm Nordwind: Come back in a month and you will see it busy! :)
Adams Rubble: Can I make a landmark?
Storm Nordwind: Sure np
Pema Pera: thanks, Adams!
Pema Pera: see you soon again!
Adams Rubble: I'll see then. bye :)
Storm Nordwind: bye!

Adams disappeared but I explained a little more about the west side of the Cafe

Pema Pera: Thanks for showing everything, Storm!
Pema Pera: it is great to see everything falling into place this way
Pema Pera: so the science park eventually will be at the other side of this sim border, right?
Storm Nordwind: And yes the Science Park starts as a 3D structure beyond the wall
Pema Pera: great, that will be the Atomium, right? Like the one in Brussels?
Storm Nordwind: Yes. But bigger. Possibly a different molecule! :)
Pema Pera: So here we are in Ulreung and the Kira Science Park will be in BaikUn
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Pema Pera: and in Baikun it can grow to a rather large size, if it wants to
Storm Nordwind: Yes. It has more prims available to do so too
Pema Pera: given that we own most of BaikUn by now
Storm Nordwind: exactly
Storm Nordwind: And the 3D structure is unaffected by the ad-towers etc
Pema Pera: great! It will be so nice to see whether we can combine both education and research in science with a Kira outlook!
Storm Nordwind: I am very optimistic, aren't you? :)
Pema Pera: Play as Being at the PaB pavilion, with the emphasis on Play as humans at the Cafe and then here in the Science Park Play as scientists -- and of course all that really as forms of Play as Being, but letting Being play differently :-)
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Pema Pera: yes, I'm very optimistic -- since I trust the way everything has been growing organically, grass roots wise
Pema Pera: not planned like the way most universities have tried to build campuses in SL -- like a communist planned economy
Storm Nordwind: Haha - that is sad but true! And you see acres of empty space.
Pema Pera: well, we learn
Pema Pera: yes
Storm Nordwind: And most activity takes place on the mailing lists - almost old tech
Pema Pera: SL is only five years old!
Storm Nordwind: The SLED group, for example, thrives. But try and meet these guys on line together and it's harder
Pema Pera: Hi Cal!
Storm Nordwind: Hi Cal
Caledonia Heron: hey there :)
Pema Pera: have you seen the Kira Cafe yet?
Caledonia Heron: no, not as yet
Caledonia Heron: is this the location?
Pema Pera: well in front of you!
Storm Nordwind: It's still work in progress Cal!
Caledonia Heron: nice, I like the open look
Caledonia Heron: indoor outdoor brainstorming
Storm Nordwind: There will be sides, but it will still feel open inside
Caledonia Heron: oh
Caledonia Heron: ok
Caledonia Heron: why not leave it open?
Storm Nordwind: Some of it could be
Caledonia Heron: get a breeze through :)
Caledonia Heron: like a giant pavilion
Storm Nordwind: Main cafe area seats around 70 on the main floor
Storm Nordwind: another dozen or so around the side
Storm Nordwind: and 30 in the gallery upstairs
Caledonia Heron: wow, how many does the sim hold?
Pema Pera: actually, if you don't mind, I think I'll go back to bed -- was great to get up for a bit, but only slept four hours so far
Storm Nordwind: Then there's the bar and lounge - completely different at the far end
Caledonia Heron: for sure, :) g'night
Pema Pera: sorry to say hello and goodbye so quickly, Cal!
Storm Nordwind: OK
Caledonia Heron: it's fine, see you soon
Pema Pera: thanks again, Storm!
Storm Nordwind: np
Caledonia Heron: bye
Storm Nordwind: bye

I showed Cal around with pretty much the same things said over again! :)