2008.09.07 19:00 - What's REAL?

The guardian for this meeting was Rowan Masala.

Threedee Shepherd: hi rowan
Rowan Masala: hello Adelene and 3D!
Adelene Dawner: hi!
Threedee Shepherd: hi
Rowan Masala: 3D, I love the new sign :)
Threedee Shepherd: thanks
Rowan Masala: how are you two this evening?
Threedee Shepherd: well thanks
Rowan Masala: Hello Steven
Rowan Masala: Did you enjoy your days off last week, Adelene?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Threedee Shepherd: spending the day on business-related adminsitrivia stuff, but that is part of the world, too
Threedee Shepherd: hello steve
Rowan Masala: ha--administrivia--I love that
Threedee Shepherd: I was a university administrator as well as professor, for many years ;D
Rowan Masala: ah--a dean?
Threedee Shepherd: equivalent thereto in campuswide administration
Rowan Masala nods
Adelene Dawner is slightly elsewhere, sorry... yes, my last weekend was good. This one looks like it'll be nice, too.
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: good to hear, Adelene
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Rowan Masala: and I'm usually slightly elsewhere myself
Adelene Dawner: I'm looking forward to the PaB meetup in a few weeks - I've been looking up transportation stuff for that on the other screen.
Adelene Dawner: The price I pay for not driving - I have to plan ahead for busses and things.
Rowan Masala: Oh, how nice that you'll be able to go!
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: from where do you travel?
Adelene Dawner: Atlantic City area. Not far, but there's no direct route - I think I'll go by way of NYC, but I could also go through Philly.
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: and will you be going, 3D?
stevenaia Michinaga: if I go I'll be heading east then south, you are correct, no direct way
Threedee Shepherd: Unfortunately I have local commitments at that same time, here in Colorado.
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: I'm not going to be able to make it either
Rowan Masala: so how are everyone's 9s going?
Rowan Masala: Shall we begin with one, to get things rolling?
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Rowan Masala: ok, 9seconds now
Rowan Masala inhales deeply and smiles
Rowan Masala: What were your experiences, just now?
Threedee Shepherd: calmness , tinged with a familiar *edge* of certain work that needs to be done that I am finally energized to do.
Rowan Masala: Hello Prosper. Welcome
Prosper Telling: Hi
Threedee Shepherd: hi prosper
stevenaia Michinaga: hmmm a blanket-like sensation of layers within
Prosper Telling: good to see everone
Rowan Masala: and you, Prosper
Rowan Masala: we just took a 9 second break, and are sharing our experiences
Rowan Masala: I found myself back in my body--seems I'm too much in my mind and screen and keyboard. I hadn't even noticed until then that my sore throat had gone away
stevenaia Michinaga: a good thing to notice
Rowan Masala smiles, nodding
Prosper Telling: sorry, I am being paged... be back soon, I hope :-)
Rowan Masala: thank goodness for Tylenol
Rowan Masala: 3, when you said you were finally energized for your tasks, where do you think the energy came from?
Adelene Dawner: I'm surprisingly still tense from earlier. I was *livid* at a coworker today, and I'm not now, but my body is still doing stress behaviors.
Threedee Shepherd: acceptance as opposed to annoyed resistance
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: did the meditative moment help you realize that you were still tense, Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: no, I'd been aware of that to a degree. I just hadn't paid enough attention to realize that it's a bit odd.
Rowan Masala: odd for you to carry the stress that long?
Adelene Dawner: Yes and no - I'm not surprised at it, but I wonder why it's happening when I'm no longer actually upset.
Rowan Masala: hmm
Rowan Masala: what part of you is no longer upset?
Rowan Masala: is it that your body is carrying the anger longer than your mind or heart or soul?
Adelene Dawner: ... I don't usually make that distinction. I'm not *emotionally* upset anymore on any level.
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: Do you think the distinction might be helpful? Or problematic?
Adelene Dawner: I don't knwow. I haven't tried it to find out.
Rowan Masala: What do the rest of you think? What effect does looking at ourselves as various integrated systems have on our mindfulness and Being?
Threedee Shepherd: To change topic, if I may?
Rowan Masala: please do, 3
Threedee Shepherd: I was reading in an sleduc list today whether SL id contrasted with RL, given that the screen, keyboard and conversationa are REAL.
Rowan Masala smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: sleduc?
Rowan Masala: SL education
Rowan Masala: educators
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Rowan Masala: the use of the SL/RL dichotomy is troubling to me
Adelene Dawner: If there's still a line, it's getting thinner every day.
Adelene Dawner: At least between virtual/real in general.
Threedee Shepherd: We don't call telephone calls some term that inplies another form of Life
stevenaia Michinaga: they certainly are parallel, but different in ways that allow us to meet here 4 times a day
Rowan Masala: A friend of mine asked me today how my SL was going. And I started thinking about it and realized I see SL as just another communication medium--rich and varied and complex, but a medium nonetheless
Rowan Masala: exactly, 3D!
Rowan Masala: that was just what I was thining
Rowan Masala: *thinking
Rowan Masala: No one would ask me how my phone was going
Rowan Masala: or my IM
stevenaia Michinaga: .... oh I can see phone as an equally unique experience as it was how my spouse and I got back together in our youth
Rowan Masala: so why do you think we do that with SL?
Threedee Shepherd: Well, the Avatars do make a difference. This is NOT videophone
Rowan Masala: true, but they are our creations, or at least our choices
Rowan Masala: another expression of ourselves
Rowan Masala: do you think there's an artifice involved in interacting through an avatar that isn't present in other media?
Rowan Masala: chime--9 seconds now
Threedee Shepherd: To keep the pre-gong thread going, I have an observation
Rowan Masala nods
Threedee Shepherd: It turns out that I can *see* the person in RL who is Adelene via a webcam she maintains. I have a different overall *sensation* when I look over at that screen and see her in RL (so to speak) versus when I look at her AV in SL.
Rowan Masala: can you explain the difference in sensation?
Threedee Shepherd: I knew you would ask :) It's hard
Rowan Masala laughs
stevenaia Michinaga: after meeting or seeing someone, I see one person, as there is only one person in many forms
Rowan Masala nods
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, Steve, and for me the different forms evoke differing [can't find the right word to go here, yet]
Adelene Dawner: It's *different*, just like text chat and phone are different.
Adelene Dawner: And from my perspective, having the camera on is different from having it off, and also different from being around someone in RL.
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: it's exhausting for me to be on webcam
stevenaia Michinaga: what is "read" is a special aspect of the person we are talking to, word from lips vs letters from fingers, perhaps Three can explain how those are different neurologically
stevenaia Michinaga: figured if anyone can a neuroscientist can
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Threedee Shepherd: Let me back up a bit. Other than a few local friends, Adelene is the only person I have conversed with on the phone, via seeing her webcan and long chats. Everyone else pretty much *is* their Avatar.
Threedee Shepherd: body language is more than 75% of face-to-face communication among NTs.
stevenaia Michinaga: I ahve seen and met a number of Sl people
Rowan Masala: NTs?
Adelene Dawner: Neurotypicals. Normal-brained folks. (I'm not one.)
Threedee Shepherd: So, I assume that some people "roleplay" consistently as their AV. That's who I know. I would not expect to necessrily meet that persona if I met it's *owner* in person.
Rowan Masala: interesting
Rowan Masala: Steven, how different is your experience of my avatar v. me on webcam?
stevenaia Michinaga: they merge into one
Rowan Masala: and Adelene, have you seen 3D on webcam as well?
stevenaia Michinaga: as it does with the others I have seen and met, Adams, Pema, although the accent doesn't carry through here, Sylectra, all I have known here 1st
Threedee Shepherd: I do not have a webcam (yet)
Adelene Dawner grins at that 'yet' ^.^
Rowan Masala: interesting
Rowan Masala: Steven doesn't have one either
Rowan Masala: Adelene, you are female in RL, right? If I may ask...
stevenaia Michinaga: next computer will
Adelene Dawner: Yup
Rowan Masala: I find it interesting that we have two sets of friends, in both of which the female is watched and the male is the watcher
Rowan Masala: but I digress
Rowan Masala: chime
Adelene Dawner shrugs
Rowan Masala: 9 seconds please
Rowan Masala: hmmm
Rowan Masala: that one was easier than the last one
Threedee Shepherd: what is hard vs. easy Rowan
Rowan Masala: for the one at 10:30, I was so excited about where the conversation was headed that it was very difficult to take the time to pause and meditate
Threedee Shepherd: to go back to 10:30 you raised the concept of "artifice" I rather suspect its more what we choose to share in SL, especially because the body-language is missing
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: and if we were here in person, what would everyone's body language be saying?
Threedee Shepherd: PaB is special. People here are more *open* than in usual SL chatting
Rowan Masala: that's not actually true for my experience of SL
Threedee Shepherd: Rowan, I don't know.
stevenaia Michinaga: but body language is not missing here, it's just neutralized by the animation of our characters, otherwise it would just be text chat with a picture
Rowan Masala: Steven, I'm not sure I understand?
Rowan Masala: how can our body language come across here?
stevenaia Michinaga: the lindens have programed our Avitars with a body movement
Rowan Masala: but that's not our own body language
stevenaia Michinaga: it;\'s jsut not necessarily what we want it to be, yes
Rowan Masala: Adelene, what is your body doing and saying in RL, right now?
stevenaia Michinaga: it's there, as artificial as our avatars
Adelene Dawner: Ask Threedee. My translation abilities are pretty limited.
Rowan Masala: Threedee, how would you describe Adelene's current body language, and your own?
Threedee Shepherd: both comfortably seated, content in the moment
Rowan Masala: very much like your avatars' then
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Threedee Shepherd: :)
Rowan Masala: mine is quite different--there's some anxiety present. biting on my lip, toes twitching
Rowan Masala: yours, Steven?
Threedee Shepherd: Rowan, anxiety and/or *discomforted*
stevenaia Michinaga: well I have dificulties interpreting what the lion projects
stevenaia Michinaga: yet, he types better than I
Rowan Masala: maybe restlessness would be a better word. much going on just behind the front of my mind. a class I have to teach tomorrow morning, my throat, a fear that Steven will ask me to turn on my webcam, listening for what my cat is doing
Threedee Shepherd: I imagine a lion in this pose is contentedly sunning in the tall grass of the savannah
Rowan Masala: all of that comes through in my RL body language, but with Rowan all you see is the quiet sitting, and petting Hester, and what I type
Threedee Shepherd: Yes, "a class to teach" always raised an "edge" to my being.
stevenaia Michinaga: but I love your cat, who also types better than I, even on camera
Rowan Masala: yes, 3, savannah would suit you well right now
Rowan Masala laughs with Steven
Rowan Masala: yes, Pantalaimon is an excellent typist
Rowan Masala: shall we have a final 9 seconds?
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Rowan Masala: thank you all
Rowan Masala: what an interesting discussion
Rowan Masala: what should I call the log for tonight?
Threedee Shepherd: what's Real?
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: ok
stevenaia Michinaga: I must get milk for breakfast in any case
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you all
Rowan Masala: can you pick up some for me too?
Threedee Shepherd: indeed :) g'night
Rowan Masala: oh, yeah, hmm 10 hours... :)
Rowan Masala: goodnight all
stevenaia Michinaga: and fruity pebbles for son
Adelene Dawner: 'night ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: see you later