2008.09.18 01:00 - A guardian meeting in Europe?

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    That night, at 1 am SLT, I, Pema, spent the first ten minutes by myself, until Umbriel walked in.

    Umbriel Levenque: Metta
    Pema Pera: Hi Umbriel!
    Umbriel Levenque: Good morning/evening Pema.
    Pema Pera: Welcome to a rather quiet pavilion
    Pema Pera: afternoon, in fact :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Pema Pera: 5:11 pm in Nagoya
    Umbriel Levenque: ah
    Pema Pera: I am taking a train from Kyoto to Tokyo this afternoon, but there are too many tunnels to keep a connection, so I got off from the train in Nagoya, along the way
    Pema Pera: I'll get on another train again, after this session
    Umbriel Levenque: I see
    Faenik: ah :)
    Pema Pera: In New York, they have wired some of the tunnels, to keep an internet connection
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Pema Pera: but they haven't done that for the bullet train yet -- will happen some day, I expect :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: I've heard the food is much better on the bullet trains
    Pema Pera: It's fine, but of course better in Kyoto still :)
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: How long you're staying in Japan this time?
    Pema Pera: another two weeks
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Pema Pera: On October 1 I fly back to New York
    Pema Pera: and I look forward to the guardian meeting two weeks after that, in Princeton
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Pema Pera: If you have any chance to come over . . .

    Umbriel brought up an interesting new idea.

    Umbriel Levenque: I'd like to but can't afford it really. We were talking about a guaridan meeting in Europe sometime next year
    Pema Pera: What a nice idea! I had not heard that yet
    Pema Pera: When would you like to do that?
    Umbriel Levenque: Informal one that is... just passing mention between some friends
    Pema Pera: oh sure, anything with PaB is informal, I hope
    Pema Pera: The Princeton one is definitely meant to be informal too!
    Pema Pera: Where are you think of gathering?
    Umbriel Levenque: Sure
    Umbriel Levenque: Well we just mentioned it Pema... any ideas?
    Umbriel Levenque: So far only 4 of us... would need to talk to more people perhaps
    Pema Pera: That depends on who would like to join
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Pema Pera: Germany would be in the center of England and Finland, I guess, more or less
    Pema Pera: But so would Holland!
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Umbriel Levenque: Do you visit Holland often?
    Umbriel Levenque says Germany was one of the locations suggested
    Pema Pera: I visit Holland about once a year
    Pema Pera: but irregularly
    Pema Pera: With Quen we now have a Dutch guardian actually living in Holland!
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Pema Pera: One of our many guardians who are architects in RL :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: ah another one
    Pema Pera wonders why there are so many architects among guardians . . . .
    Umbriel Levenque: A friend teaches at AA...
    Faenik loves wells!
    Umbriel Levenque often wondered about that too...
    Pema Pera: it does combine scientific/technological with artistic/creative thinking . . . so perhaps an interest in the nature of reality is natural?
    Umbriel Levenque: :-) perhaps Pema. My speciality was also architecture at uni
    Pema Pera: I didn't know that. How interesting!
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: (religious structures)
    Pema Pera: Now I'm loosing count. Let's see. You and Wol and Stevenaia and Quen -- did I overlook someone?
    Umbriel Levenque: Solobill is interested in Japanese architecture also
    Umbriel Levenque: Pema time is short for you but could I ask you a question?
    Pema Pera: you just did :)
    Pema Pera: but you can ask another one; the answer is yes to the first one
    Pema Pera: (sorry, in a silly mood)

    Claire joined us, and Umbriel continued.

    Claire Beltran: Hello, everyone <3
    Umbriel Levenque: Would PaB help me to discover what I'd like to do with my life?
    Umbriel Levenque: Metta
    Pema Pera: Hi Claire!
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Umbriel Levenque has too many options and good at too many things
    Pema Pera: Well, that is a difficult question for me to answer, Umbriel
    Pema Pera: But I think it will help in general with those kind of questions
    Pema Pera: if nothing else by helping you to find a wider perspective
    Faenik: indeed?
    Pema Pera: by reminding you to look up from narrower perspectives
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Umbriel Levenque: How did you find yours Pema?
    Pema Pera: hmmm, many answers possible
    Pema Pera: as for astronomy, I asked for a little telescope for my 12th birthday
    Pema Pera: as for contemplation, I stumbled upon writing from India when I was 17
    Umbriel Levenque notices 'asked for' and ponders
    Umbriel Levenque notices 'stumbled upon'... also
    Pema Pera: I've pretty much since then been interested in exploration of those two topics mainly, but also exploration in general
    Umbriel Levenque nods. I see
    Umbriel Levenque: Some food for thoughts, thank you Pema
    Pema Pera: I stumbled upon astronomy interests through a combination of things
    Pema Pera: one was an interest in space flight, since that had just started then in the mid sixties
    Pema Pera: another was that I found it fascinating to be able to travel in my backyard, throughout the universe, without going anywhere
    Umbriel Levenque: ah
    Pema Pera: a kind of virtual reality :-)
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)

    Claire mentioned AMNH, the American Museum for Natural History in New York. For a while we would have two threads going.

    Claire Beltran: I have always had a love of the idea of space travel... it helps that the palneterium at the Museum of Natural History has gotten a huge overhaul, including a brand-new planeterium.
    Pema Pera: yes, they did a great job
    Faenik loves wells!
    Claire Beltran smacks her forehead at the redundancy.
    Pema Pera: I've used it for my work, in the evenings, sometimes
    Claire Beltran: When did you see it?
    Umbriel Levenque: Difficulties is that my interests are too wide ranging... I'd need to find some connections somewhere soon
    Pema Pera: when it was built, in 2000
    Pema Pera: Yes, that can be a problem Umbriel
    Umbriel Levenque loves Dino bones in Museum of Natural History (UK)
    Claire Beltran: I see it all the time... but it's been forever since I last attended a movie showing in the Great Sphere there.
    Pema Pera: When you look back at your life and ask yourself what you enjoyed most, does that give you a clue, Umbriel?
    Faenik: could be
    Pema Pera: Yes, Claire, we produced our own simulations in the Great Sphere, in the evenings, for some very small groups, that was fun.
    Umbriel Levenque: Um... those rather unclear Pema. Not sure if I 'used' them to distract or genuinely passionate about
    Claire Beltran: What!? You're joking!
    Claire Beltran: Part of the reason I haven't been there in a while is parly natural lethargy... and partly because going in there the first few times involved getting over some amount of fear.
    Umbriel Levenque will ponder again and get back to you Pema one of these days
    Claire Beltran: I'm sorry if it feels like we're having two different conversations ^^:
    Pema Pera: sure, Umbriel! In general, using your exciting as a thermometer, so to speak, as an indicator, may help -- your heart may know better than your conscious thoughts
    Umbriel Levenque: np Claire. It's something I need to take time... 'nuf of me
    Pema Pera: yes, Claire, that's the joy of texting
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Pema Pera: can still follow two, though probably not five
    Umbriel Levenque: :D
    Claire Beltran: Heehe

    Back to one thread.

    Pema Pera: It was great to show our simulations in the big dome
    Pema Pera: instead of showing them on a computer screen
    Claire Beltran: What were they simulations of?
    Pema Pera: star clusters, for example
    Pema Pera: groups of a hundred thousand stars
    Umbriel Levenque thanks Pema for the advice... 'heart' knows betters than 'head' sometimes
    Pema Pera: all moving through each other, like a huge swarm of bees
    Umbriel Levenque: Sounds amazing Pema
    Pema Pera: `heart' can signal what is important; `head' van figure out what to do with it
    Umbriel Levenque: ah...
    Pema Pera: it really felt very immersive
    Pema Pera: as if we were sitting in a spaceship flying through our simulations
    Pema Pera: somewhat similar to SL in the sense of immersion
    Pema Pera: but for different reasons
    Pema Pera: it would be great to combine both
    Claire Beltran: One of the most fascinating things for me was one show on the possibility of alien life. I was heartened by the display of the ocean floor, and the asssertion that life cannot get much more 'alien' in respect to humans than the creatures that live thousands of feet below water, around volcanic vents.
    Pema Pera: to sit in a huge planetarium dome and have SL projected around you
    Pema Pera: yes, Claire, that is fascinating!
    Umbriel Levenque imagines explosion somewhere nearby, caused by Pema's simulation...
    Pema Pera: So much that was discovered only in the last ten years or so
    Pema Pera: or implosions, into black holes . . . .
    Umbriel Levenque: And all of us go... gooey
    Umbriel Levenque: :-)
    Claire Beltran: Not only does it imply that life can never be too 'alien' to seem truly uncomfortable... but I can believe it. I've seen tube worms and vulcna squid, though never up close.
    Claire Beltran: The most immersive aspect for me isn't the view, actually, but the sound.
    Pema Pera: squids are wonderful, highly intelligent, as much as many birds and mammels
    Claire Beltran: Yes, I know. Scary, too, though.
    Faenik: ah :)
    Umbriel Levenque: Life can never be too 'alien' to seem truly uncomfortable... care to explain a bit more Claire?

    Kelwen joined us, and I had to leave to catch my train.

    Pema Pera: Hi Kelwen!
    Kelwen Landar: hi, sorry im late
    Umbriel Levenque: Metta
    Kelwen Landar: im having sl problems..
    Pema Pera: np! people come & go here :)
    Pema Pera: come join us
    Pema Pera: Alas, I have to leave now -- my train will depart in ten minutes in RL.
    Kelwen Landar: (all of the writing on my sl screen has gone huge and i cant fix it)
    Pema Pera: Umbriel, can you send or append the rest of the chat log?
    Umbriel Levenque: Good afternoon Pema. See you soon & thank you.
    Claire Beltran: Well...
    Umbriel Levenque nods. Yes will post
    Umbriel Levenque: Metta
    Claire Beltran: Goodbye, Pema ^-^/
    Claire Beltran: Hello, Kelwen ^-^/
    Kelwen Landar: hello claire


    Claire Beltran: Anyway... Pema was asking me how something could be so alien to me as to be uncomfortable.
    Umbriel Levenque listens
    Claire Beltran: Perhaps it is the result of an imagination that wants to explore the harmful... for some reason, I have found myself wanting to confront things that frighten me throughout my life.
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Claire Beltran: So I frequently find myself conjuring or seeking out things that upset me.
    Kelwen Landar: i tend to be the other way, Im avoiding dealing with things that have happenned that upset me...
    Claire Beltran: Maybe I do a bit of that, too.
    Claire Beltran: But the fears I chase after are deeper philosophical and existential ones... ones that go down very deep.
    Claire Beltran: Perhaps, sometimes, I think I like to conjure such images in order to 'scare away' things that actually seem *more* alien and uncomfortable, but more mundane.
    Kelwen Landar: such as? (if you dont mind me asking)
    Umbriel Levenque: Some of us can be absorbed by certain events too... an example could be news... images of disasters
    Kelwen Landar: i think i use 'energy' in the same way..
    Kelwen Landar: carrying on, never stopping until i have too
    Kelwen Landar: to stop myself thinking of feeling the things i dont want to
    Umbriel Levenque: Would you know what you are trying to 'scare away' by those imaginations? Have you seen it at all?
    Claire Beltran: Some things...
    Claire Beltran: Unkindness, in many forms.
    Faenik: indeed?
    Umbriel Levenque: Mine is fear
    Umbriel Levenque: Fear of fear in fact
    Claire Beltran: My own shortcomings, or what I think is wrong with me.
    Umbriel Levenque: Yes, I fear myself... fear of fear
    Umbriel Levenque: It is difficult for me to face this music but I've learnt to welcome it rather than distracting myself from looking into it
    Claire Beltran: How?
    Umbriel Levenque: Well in my younger years (as I was telling Pema before), I escaped into many things... cinema, manga, anime, arts and music
    Umbriel Levenque: Immersed myself and so didn't have to be aware of what's going on in my mind
    Claire Beltran: No, it's the reverse for me...
    Umbriel Levenque: I've done 'nuf of that now... time to face the music. PaB helps towards it... and my daily practice of meditation... to be open and mindful
    Claire Beltran: Using concepts to drive away things I perceive to be more 'real' than a fear of very deep water or the dark.
    Umbriel Levenque ponders the difference... one moment
    Claire Beltran: Both of which I am very, deeply afraid of.
    Umbriel Levenque: What stops you from looking at those that you perceive more 'real'? Fear isn't it? What would happen if you don't drive them away? Have you tried?
    Claire Beltran: I feel like th fears that are more 'real' - which are really more 'everyday' can't be driven away, by necessity.
    Claire Beltran: I just don't know how else to work with them.
    Umbriel Levenque nods. I understand
    Umbriel Levenque: You're aware of this fear and that's a good starting point Claire imo
    Umbriel Levenque: Have you tried any of PaB exercises and if so, how have you found it? Any help/changes in regards to this fear?
    Faenik: could be
    Claire Beltran: Hmm... I will need to get back to you on that.
    Claire Beltran: It can be hard to recall thie exercise sometimes ^^;
    Umbriel Levenque: I have personally found 9 sec immensely helpful in being more aware/mindful.
    Umbriel Levenque: Have you tried the clock Claire?
    Kelwen Landar: its the only way im choosing to do it at the moment
    Kelwen Landar: i cant manage any longer than the 9 seconds
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Umbriel Levenque: Took a while for me to meditate longer than 5 mins Kelwen. Takes some practice really
    Kelwen Landar: yes, hopfully in time
    Kelwen Landar: its more the fact of not wanting to face how i feel when im still i think
    Umbriel Levenque: But 9 sec bridged gaps for me and helped me to be aware throughout the day while awake. Nicely complemented by meditations
    Claire Beltran: The clock?
    Umbriel Levenque nods. I understand that Kewlen. It's not pleasant
    Kelwen Landar: yes i can see how itd help
    Kelwen Landar: will just take a while i think
    Umbriel Levenque nods
    Kelwen Landar: one step at a time
    Umbriel Levenque nods. Yes Kelwen, it's the best way
    Umbriel Levenque: http://www.mindfulnessdc.org/mindfulclock.html
    Umbriel Levenque: Gong every 15 mins did annoyed me to begin with because they interrupted my work but once I was over that I was able to practice 9 sec better with this reminder
    Claire Beltran: Thank you <3
    Umbriel Levenque: np
    Umbriel Levenque: RL calls... enjoyed talking to you both. Have a good day and see you soon again.
    Umbriel Levenque: Metta
    Kelwen Landar: you too
    Kelwen Landar: bye
    Claire Beltran: Metta
    Faenik: indeed?
    Umbriel Levenque: Take care both of you
    Kelwen Landar: and you

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