2008.09.20 19:00 - Acceptance as Reality Itself

    Table of contents
    No headers

    Stim was the guardian that evening. He provided the chat log and comments, while I, Pema, put up the log and choose a title. From here on Stim is speaking.

    When I entered SL, Adelene and Pia were already present, discussing a new feature of the Pavilion.

    Adelene Dawner: There's a base unit that rezzes one for each person that it detects in a 15m range - if you leave that range, the ball will delete itself.
    Adelene Dawner: It doesn't listen yet, I'm just testing out the rezzing and following code. Hiya Stim. :)
    Pia Iger: Hi, Stim
    Stim Morane: Hi Adelene!
    Stim Morane: Sorry I'm late.
    Adelene Dawner: no worries :)
    Stim Morane: Hi Pia!
    Pia Iger: Stim is totally grey to me.
    Stim Morane: That's a common occurrence here, in my experience.
    Stim Morane: Is it too disconcerting?
    Adelene Dawner shrugs. "You look ok to me, Stim"
    Pia Iger: now you are ok, Stim
    Stim Morane: Good. Sometimes it takes quite a long time ...
    Stim Morane: So you were discussing the magic ball I see above ?

    A brightly colored ball was floating above our tea table.

    Adelene Dawner: It's a prototype of part of the autologging system :)
    Stim Morane: Good.
    Stim Morane: Is it working well at this point?
    Adelene Dawner: We figured out that having one script do all the listening just wouldn't work, so the listeners will be in balls-or-something that rez from a base and listen to individual people. So far it's working well. :)
    Stim Morane: So for now, we're still using the original system?
    Stim Morane: I mean, re posting a chat log?
    Adelene Dawner: For now, the logs still have to be posted by hand.
    Stim Morane: OK
    Adelene Dawner: We're still aiming for October 1 as far as having the autologging running.
    Pia Iger: There is hope ;-)
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Stim Morane: I look forward to it.

    Pia then led things off with an observation.

    Pia Iger: I can start to talk about something.
    Stim Morane: OK
    Pia Iger: usually I am seen as a quite calm and contented person. after the few months of PaB and 9-sec, it is revealed to me that there is a constant apprehension inside me.
    Stim Morane: So you think this is not a new condition, but a new discovery of something that was always occurring?
    Pia Iger: the little nagging voice inside me are more naked
    Pia Iger: yes, it is a new discovery.
    Stim Morane: Yes. Well this is so common as to be nearly universal for people undertaking a meditation regimen emphasizing awareness (rather than simply relaxation).
    Pia Iger: I guess so.
    Stim Morane: I.e., it "seems" that one is getting more nervous etc., whereas in fact underlying tensions etc are more noticeable.
    Stim Morane: All of my students in various groups have complained about this.
    Stim Morane: They felt like they were "getting worse"

    In the above, I was summarizing many reports from my students over the years.

    Adelene Dawner observes that she's been spending far too much time around Avastu recently and chuckles quietly to herself.
    Pia Iger: I am not complaining, I think it is progress.
    Stim Morane: what is the consequence of the "too much time", Adelene?
    Stim Morane: Yes, I think so too, Pia.
    Adelene Dawner: Well, that self-improvement urge has dissapeared - not that I ever had a strong one - and I find that impulse in others to be... quaint. No personal judging implied, Pia.
    Stim Morane: Yes. But even leaving self-improvement aside, it is normal to notice more discordant thoughts etc than might have been noticeable at first.
    Stim Morane: Other effects are also common, but more person-specific.
    Pia Iger: The discordance is always there. I am glad I can see/hear it clearer.
    Adelene Dawner chuckles. "I may be a heretical nondualist, but it seems I am one. 'Discordant'. Funny concept."

    So at this point we essentially began two distinct threads, both involving important personal perspectives and experience: Pia's and Adelene's. In what follows, I responded to Pia first.

    Stim Morane: OK. Good. So then see if you can welcome it and invite it to be explicitly part of your PaB practice.
    Pia Iger: I was introduced to meditation 2 years ago. but hard to calm myself to do normal meditation. I am glad I can get here by a few months of PaB.
    Stim Morane: WHat is the funny part, Adelene? Surely it is not unusual to experience things that make you uneasy?
    Stim Morane: Well of course time spent in a "practice session" is also a factor, Pia. Are you spending as much time with the PaBb exercises as with "meditation"?
    Pia Iger: mostly 9-sec a dozen times a day
    Pia Iger: I am not doing any sitting yet.
    Stim Morane: Yes. You may find that if you spend as much time as you might have in a more formal type of practice, you still experience the same anxiety as before. This would be normal and OK.

    Back to Adelene .

    Adelene Dawner: ...I'm not sure I can explain this...not sure I want to, either. But... 'discordant' is an abstraction, a judgement, a conflation of unrelated patterns. And I find it funny how seriously that conecpt... immaterial as a soap bubble... is usually taken.
    Stim Morane: Well, we can take typical cases like very unpleasant or undesirable feelings or circumstances.
    Stim Morane: Most people do indeed find it difficult to accept these.
    Adelene Dawner: Yes, Stim. I see the pattern you're refering to.

    Note that Adelene was careful not to say she personally endorsed the perspective I outlined. She wanted to leave some room for another view.

    Pia Iger: to me, discordant can be a direct feeling, observation of what happen in my mind.
    Stim Morane: Yes, Pia.
    Stim Morane: Anyway, was there something in particular you wanted to raise concerning this, Pia?
    Pia Iger: more detailed, I can hear clearer the voices inside me "picking myself, like you can be more deligent, you can do something better" I notice they are constantly there.
    Pia Iger: first of all, I am glad I can see them better.
    Stim Morane: Yes. It's not a simple matter of "wanting to be that way".
    Stim Morane: In more traditional, technical language there are words specifically for this basic feature of the ordinary mind.
    Stim Morane: Part of the point of meditation is to come to terms with it. It seems like both of you have done this to some extent.

    My last comment was a way of saying that both Adelene and Pia have clearly been investigating some features of human experience, handling them in different but useful ways.

    Pia Iger: by facing these voices, I sort of can see myself have potential to become more centered, more deeply contented.
    Stim Morane: Sure
    Stim Morane: Acceptance can mean many things on many levels. It refines into something far beyond any kind of attitude.
    Stim Morane: You could say it's reality itself, in a sense.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^
    Pia Iger: on the other hand, can we say my previous state was less touched on reality?
    Stim Morane: Well, to be consistent, I have to say that everything and every "state" is equally included in what I'm loosely calling "reality". But I meant to say that part of the character of that Reality in its own right is a radical kind of acceptance, and acceptance can also be used as a Way to that as well.
    Stim Morane: The ordinary mind is not very accepting, but it is within Acceptance.
    Stim Morane: Reality is not picky.

    My statement that acceptance is reality itself would be quite familiar to practitioners of some contemplative traditions. But the meaning is hard to convey on the "talk" level and usually requires a lot of practice as background for helpful discussion.

    Adelene Dawner: Every state anad every thing is real. But not every state acknowledges that it is real or that every state and every thing is real.
    Stim Morane: I doubt that any state does.
    Stim Morane: This is part of what I mean. Acceptance in its original face is beyond states, but embraces all.
    Stim Morane: All states are no-state, just in the way they Are.
    Stim Morane: Anyway, this is probably getting a bit far afield, sorry.
    Adelene Dawner: awww... :)
    Stim Morane: The point has applications on various levels, so in that sense it can aid one's practice at any time.
    Pia Iger: I will keep them in mind somehow. rightnow, just happy to get more acceptance of herself.
    Stim Morane: Precisely. That is essential.

    The above covers several positions in a few words.

    Pia Iger: another observation, is that the wobbly nature of life keep going on. some many issues, headaches. I am seeking the balance of imbalance.
    Stim Morane: Another aspect of the same point ...
    Adelene Dawner grins widely at Pia.
    Pia Iger: (life is hard, Adelene :)
    Stim Morane: I'm sorry I was looking in the wrong direction. I would have enjoyed seeing your avatar grin widely, Adelene!
    Adelene Dawner: (life *is*, Pia.)
    Adelene Dawner chuckles at Stim.

    Adelene's avatar is quite beautiful and unusual, but does not have a shape one would usually think capable of wide grins. In any case, she again emphasized a commitment to a certain view of life and the right way to deal with it. Pia then responded below, and I started to comment on how complex this issue really is.

    Pia Iger: I agree It Is. but we also have the proactive part.
    Stim Morane: I think this "is" notion amounts to many quite different ones.
    Stim Morane: Perhaps we can make a topic of just that.
    Pia Iger: ok.
    Stim Morane: Sometime ...
    Stim Morane: I will be leaving momentarily, but if we're together again, maybe we could tackle it.
    Adelene Dawner: I dunno, looks simple from here. Life is. Things happen. Appearances arise, as Avastu puts it. Some of them are 'hard', some of them are 'easy', some of them are 'good', some of them are 'bad'. It's all life.
    Stim Morane: Yes, but that's exactly an example of what is not really the meaning of "Is" in contemplative traditions.

    This simple word "Is" means many things, most of which are conflated and even confused at this point in history and popular levels of discussing contemplative views of reality. In what follows, Pia responded to Adelene's last comment, and we made a sort of IOU agreement.

    Pia Iger: I agree on that. Then how can we live the life? there are choices.
    Stim Morane: Well, I won't say more now, since I can't follow up sufficiently.
    Stim Morane: But I think I understand what each of you is saying. So perhaps later ...?
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Pia Iger: sure :)
    Stim Morane: You are both raising central issues.
    Pia Iger: I remind you next time ;-)
    Pia Iger: will
    Stim Morane: There is also a fair amount of history behind this little discussion, in the sense that people in various cultures have sorted through it before, starting centuries before the common era.
    Stim Morane: Anyway, nice to see both of you!
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^ see ya around, Stim.
    Pia Iger: good night, Stim.
    Stim Morane: Good. ... Are you both staying on awhile?
    Adelene Dawner: most likely.
    Pia Iger: probably
    Stim Morane: Hmm ... then you know what my next question is.
    Adelene Dawner: ...?
    Stim Morane: :)
    Pia Iger: but no more log, Stim
    Stim Morane: OK. Good night, then!
    Pia Iger: we just chat.
    Adelene Dawner: ^.^

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core