2008.09.24 13:00 - Time not linear

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    Quilty Bookmite was your gracious host. The words are mine own.

    Just before the chat started I got pinged by someone I'd never met but liked to talk a lot, so I didn't take much part in most of the discussion. Adams arrived followed by Neela.

    Adams Rubble: Hello Quilty :)
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Adams.
    Adams Rubble: How are you?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm fine. How are you?
    Adams Rubble: Hello Neela :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Neela.
    Adams Rubble: I am good, thanks
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Adams and Quilty
    Adams Rubble: I've missed some sessions. have either of you worked with APAPB?
    Neela Blaisdale: No It's enough for mr to keep doing the plain old 9 sec for now
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I understand :)
    Adams Rubble: It is a tough one to do but rewarding even if you have no idea of what you are doing :)
    Adams Rubble: like me :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I've not really looked at APAPB yet.
    Adams Rubble: I have been playing around with the idea of the fourth time
    Neela Blaisdale: Very interesting one
    Adams Rubble: Not really the fourth time but the question of what happens if there is one
    Next Solobill and Wol arrive.
    Adams Rubble: Hi Bill :)
    Solobill Laville: Hi, everybody! :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Wol :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Solobill.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler wonders why she did that.
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Bill and Wol
    Adams Rubble: Wol?
    Wol Euler: it looked to me like I jmped up when I entered the pavilion
    Adams Rubble: Ah
    Adams Rubble: I have to warn everyone I will not be staying long
    There is some contraption on the table. It gets touched by someone and isn't happy.
    PaB Listener Master: I've been touched by someone I don't recognize.
    Adams Rubble: I played around with looking at things at various times of my life, going in and out of one memory and having that memorty access another and pretty much determined I've looked at the world pretty much the same
    Neela Blaisdale: What is that thing?
    Quilty Bookmite: It doesn't like being touched. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: Sorry to distract Adams
    Wol Euler is embarrassed., Sorry for distracting the group, Adams, please continue.
    Adams Rubble: I think it is the speaker but Wol is the expert :)
    Solobill Laville: In regards to remembering, Adams
    Wol Euler: in theory it is the auto-logging recording unit. In pracice, it seems to be dead.
    Solobill Laville: I have thought that through my own experience
    Solobill Laville: We never really remember the same thing the same way
    Adams Rubble: Do you mean our own memories of similar things?
    Solobill Laville: After a while, i am actually remembering the memory
    Wol Euler: true, bill.
    Adams Rubble: Yes, of course there is that level
    Solobill Laville: ah, ok
    Neela Blaisdale: So then at that point the memory is the reality?
    Adams Rubble: I was playing with how similar some things were
    Solobill Laville: Oh, I think I see your meaning
    Adams Rubble: The issue for me is linear time I guess. How much dioes my growth affect what I am seeing. Am I the dame person
    Solobill Laville nods
    Adams Rubble: I also played around with how different time is for various things like mushrooms, people, the landscape and the cosmos
    Adams Rubble: *same person (two senstences back)
    Adams Rubble: Then the third thing I did is look at art history and how linear time is an illusion
    Adams Rubble: We make all these narratives but they all leave out people
    Solobill Laville: You mean, our own narratives of our lives' occurences?
    Adams Rubble: No in this case Art Historical narratives
    Solobill Laville nods
    Neela Blaisdale: can you explain what you mean by leave people out of that?
    Adams Rubble: For example in 19c French painting there is "Impressionsim" which elaves out a good amount of the putput
    Adams Rubble: Then we have the academy to cover some more
    Adams Rubble: But there are many other things going on too
    Adams Rubble: my spelling is terrible :(
    Adams Rubble: Leaving out artists from the narratove Neela
    Adams Rubble: Just some thoughts I am playing around wit :)
    Neela Blaisdale: What about self portritas?
    Solobill Laville: How is linear time illusory from that At History narrative example, Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Well self-portraits may or may not fit into one of the narratives depending on the artist
    Solobill Laville: *Art
    Adams Rubble: Artists may be influenced by what goes on before them
    Adams Rubble: Each artist sees different numbers of things
    Adams Rubble: and interprets them differently
    Adams Rubble: There is some influence between the artists but other artists do something completely different
    Wol Euler: /mefrowns. Doesn't that chain of influence rather prove the linearity of time?
    Adams Rubble: Those latter ones are left out of the "canon" deemed unimportant becuase they do not fit
    Adams Rubble: So the narative is an illusion although helpful to people learning generalities
    Adams Rubble: No it is not linear Wol
    Wol Euler: oh, I see, you are arguing against hte narrative, not against time :-)
    Adams Rubble: The same things come up again and again
    Solobill Laville: Perhaps there is a "timeless" aspect of this expression of "humanness" in art?
    Adams Rubble: For my, my identity as an historian works against me seing a fourth time so I have to examine that
    Adams Rubble: Yess Bill
    Solobill Laville smiles triumphantly
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Wol Euler smiles at teh memory of 4,500 year old childresn' toys in the British Museum, looking much like what she grew up with.
    Adams Rubble now sheepishly must go
    Adams Rubble: Neat Wol!
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Adams :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Adams
    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Adams.
    Adams Rubble: bye.good to see you all in the middle of the week :)
    Adams Rubble is Offline
    Wol Euler: Interesting that the week is at its middle for Adams. To me it's nearly over, only two more days.
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Neela Blaisdale: That's relative too!
    Solobill Laville: glass kinda sorta full/empty
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: actually, a friend of mine had a breakthrough about that glass recently, a true stroke of genius.
    Wol Euler: She discovered that there is, in fact, a third possibility.
    Solobill Laville listens
    Wol Euler: "The glass is twice as large as it needs to be."
    Neela Blaisdale: ?
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Neela Blaisdale: Wow
    Wol Euler: isn't that brilliant?!
    Solobill Laville: indeed
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Neela Blaisdale: very
    Wol Euler is in a silly mood, or a mood for silliness.
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Solobill Laville wonders how that will express itself....
    Wol Euler points to her recent chatterings.
    Solobill Laville sees the pointing
    Solobill Laville: :)
    PaB Listener Master: I've been touched by a PaB guardian.
    Solobill Laville: hmmmm
    Wol Euler pouts. Why does it know you and not me?
    Solobill Laville: That would be interesting if that happened to every avatar a PaB guardian touched....
    Solobill Laville: eh, I've been around longer... :)
    Solobill Laville: right click
    Solobill Laville: then "touch"
    Solobill Laville: whoa
    Wol Euler: you're joking, but I suspect that that is the reason. There's some odd kind of edge condition about people who arrive while it is scanning.
    Wol Euler: wooo.
    PaB Listener Master: I've been touched by a PaB guardian.
    Solobill Laville: Is this the chat logger v.1.0?
    Wol Euler: it's about 2.1.8 actually, but yes :-)
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Wol Euler: that is the Watcher, in theory it issues us with a Listener each, which records just its target person.
    Wol Euler: In practice, it isn't happening.
    Wol Euler: That's Adelene's baby, she has taken on this part.
    Solobill Laville: wowza
    Solobill Laville: We'll know it's ready when it gets a non-numerical name...
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Solobill Laville: Like PaB "Insighter", or somesuch
    Neela Blaisdale: So confused about this stuff....
    Wol Euler: when it finally works, it will be very easy. It will automatically record us and produce a "rough-cut" log of the meeting, which the Guardian will edit and comment by hand.
    Wol Euler: I _hope_ to be running on October 1, but time is getting very short and we are still having trouble.
    Solobill Laville: Very impressive nonetheless!
    Wol Euler: thanks (on behalf of Adelene and Fael :-)
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: Is this idea of "fourth time" the same as "zeroth"?
    Solobill Laville: (if I have the term corect)
    Solobill Laville: *r
    Solobill Laville: Maybe I should've asked Adams... :)
    Wol Euler: I've read some of the logs, and hte mail conversation. It's over my head, I don't grok either of them.
    Solobill Laville smiles at "grok"
    I finally finish my offline chat and get back to the discussion.
    Quilty Bookmite wakes up
    Solobill Laville: Mornin' Quilty!
    Wol Euler: mornin' quilty.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, someone IMed me
    Quilty Bookmite: Evening. :-)
    Wol Euler: snap
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Quilty Bookmite: Must be a day for communication (or lack of it).
    Corvuscorva arrives
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi
    Wol Euler: hi corvi
    Solobill Laville: Well, now you have to read it to the whole class.... :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm chewing gum too. :-)
    Wol Euler cries into her hanky.
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Corvi!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello!
    Solobill Laville: Ah, just got that one Wol!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Umm...why are you crying, Wol?
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nm...
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Corvu
    Wol Euler: long chain of a joke.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hiya! Neela!
    Wol Euler: solo was being bullying schoolteacher
    Solobill Laville: Wol sent a [ahem] "note" to Quilty apparently...
    Solobill Laville smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel is Online
    Wol Euler blushes
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm not ratting on anyone.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Quilty Bookmite: I was trying to follow the conversation on non-linear time but failing.
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Especially since it didn't seem to be a physics concept. :-)
    Solobill Laville: Yes, that would make it tough then ;)
    Quilty Bookmite: It would for me. I don;t know a lot about art history. :-)
    Solobill Laville is wiki-ing zeroth
    Wol Euler can't remember the definition/example of first, second or third.
    Quilty Bookmite is completely lost.
    Solobill Laville: I have an idea
    Solobill Laville: To quote Lewis Carroll
    Solobill Laville: Let's change the subject!
    Quilty Bookmite: Sure.
    Wol Euler: indeed
    Quilty Bookmite: It means just exactly what you want it to mean.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, quoting Lewis Carrol. Probably badly.
    Wol Euler: recognized, and quite well quoted.
    Solobill Laville: Curtsy first, it saves time...
    Quilty Bookmite: /curtsy
    Solobill Laville wonders if there is a curtsy animation
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Apparently not. Well, I don;t have one.
    Solobill Laville: Neela, do you have anything you want to talk about?
    Neela Blaisdale: Sorry answering IM, no not today
    Quilty Bookmite: It's an epidemic. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire stifles a giggle.
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it's the same person IMing all of us to distract us.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods solemnly..Being.
    Wol Euler: a conspiracy!
    Neela Blaisdale: :) Doesn't require much to do that this time of day
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it's a government conspiracy.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: Plenty of those!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: nope...a Being conspiracy.
    Quilty Bookmite: We must be close to something then.
    Neela Blaisdale: a Playing conspiracy
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Being is Iming each of us...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Neela.
    Wol Euler looks over her shoulder nervously.
    Quilty Bookmite: In my case, Being is some guy in the Phillipines I've never spoken to before.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts.
    Exousia [script:Exousia - Menu]: Script run-time error
    Exousia [script:Exousia - Menu]: Stack-Heap Collision
    Quilty Bookmite: Exousia?
    I don't know where that came from but Exousia sounds like a sneeze to me.
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Gilles.
    Wol Euler: well, why not? Can the God who moves mountains not be a Philipino?
    Wol Euler: hello Gilles
    Quilty Bookmite: I think I just sneezed.
    Wol Euler: i.e. would that be too hard for Him?
    Quilty Bookmite: Not at all.
    Solobill Laville: Being Bless You (in Phillipino)
    Gilles Kuhn: Good time in your time zone ladies and gents
    Quilty Bookmite: He's an engineer and is interested in Astronomy.
    Solobill Laville: Hello Gilles
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello!
    Gilles arrives in the form of a wolf!
    Quilty Bookmite: hi Gilles. Have you been to these chats before?
    Neela Blaisdale: Can't see Giles yet
    Neela Blaisdale: brb
    Gilles Kuhn: Hoooooowls!!
    Wol Euler: werewolf?
    Solobill Laville: Wow, Gilles, now THAT is an avatar
    Quilty Bookmite: What big eyes you have Gilles
    Quilty Bookmite: Over therewolf
    Gilles Kuhn: its to best see you my daughter ;-)
    Wol Euler: lol
    Quilty Bookmite: Have you been here before Gilles?
    Gilles Kuhn: yes indeed
    Gilles Kuhn: but let admit i havent what would you say ?
    Quilty Bookmite: Are you happy to have your words recorded on the internet?
    Gilles Kuhn: i have np with that
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: You are familiar with PaB then?
    Gilles Kuhn: familiar is a tricky word.....
    Wol Euler: I was trying to remember if I've ever seen you as a human, Gilles. It hink not.
    Neela Blaisdale: Now see you, great avatar
    Quilty Bookmite: And you are a tricky person my friend. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: a little sc ary
    Quilty Bookmite: Looks ready to leap across the table. :-)
    Gilles Kuhn: well you have not for that ou have to see not my avie but myself IF my rl self is human of course ....
    Gilles Kuhn: (bloody lag)
    Wol Euler: well :-)
    Wol Euler points to the "RL" page of her profile.
    Solobill Laville: Good dog, Wol, good dog... :)
    Wol Euler wags her tail.
    Solobill Laville pats her head
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Gilles Kuhn: wol i have already seen your rl profile but i dont remember you really
    Solobill Laville: I must be off, friends, 'tis the witching hour for me
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Bill
    Quilty Bookmite searches for a dog avatar in my profile but can't find one.
    Wol Euler: bye solo, have a timely day.
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Me too.
    Wol Euler: bye quilty, sleep well.
    Quilty Bookmite: A pleasure to meet you Gilles.
    Neela Blaisdale: I should go as well
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: gnight!
    Wol Euler: bye neela, take care.
    Gilles Kuhn: bye
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: gnight Neela.


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