2008.09.27 07:00 - Real World is Just the Weather

Pia Iger as guardian and prepared this log.

Only Wol and me for the start.

Wol Euler: hello pia
Pia Iger: Hi, Wol,
Pia Iger: thank you for coming:)
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: I suspect we may be alone today.
Wol Euler: by the look of things.
Pia Iger: Sat morning is quiet.
Wol Euler: (I'm sorry to say that I am only half here. I'm IMing with Quel and Adelene about the autologging.)
Pia Iger: ok.
Pia Iger: I found there are not as many new drop-by as before too.

Later, 2 new AVs did stop by, but only said Hi and moved on. So they are removed in this log.

Wol Euler: mmhmm, it has definitely slowed down.
Pia Iger: less euros hanging in SL?
Wol Euler: or university has started again and people are busy?
Pia Iger: maybe.
Pia Iger: what to talk about new APAPB exploration?
Wol Euler: sorry, just a mo :-(

Other friends appeared. The pavilion became lively.

Pia Iger: Hi, Adams
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Pia
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Wol
Pia Iger: Wol is afk.
quen Oh is Online
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Quel
Pia Iger: Hi, Quel, Gaya
Quel Karillion: Hi Pia, Adams, Wol :)
Adams Dubrovna: You look sexy Wol :)
Adams Dubrovna: hehe
Adams Dubrovna: How is everyone?
Quel Karillion is good.
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Quen
Quel Karillion: Hi Quen :)
quen Oh: hello Adams and Quel
quen Oh: and hi Wol
Pia Iger: I am fine. Just started my question: what to talk about new APAPB exploration?
Adams Dubrovna: Nice gathering of Europeans and rained-out east coasters :)
quen Oh: oh and now Pia rezzes
Wol Euler surfaces and waves apologetically.
quen Oh: hi Pia
Pia Iger: Hi, Quen
Faenik: ????^^
Adams Dubrovna: Pia, did you see I tried the exploration the other way?
quen Oh: ;-) hi Faenik to *winks
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Dubrovna: Hi Gaya
Pia Iger: not yet, Adams. eager to read.
Faenik: ^^

quen brought up the question that hangs in our guardians' mind since last weekend.

quen Oh: you mean the fourth time Pia?
Wol Euler: back, sorry about that.
Wol Euler: hello quen
quen Oh: hi Wol
Wol Euler: hello gaya and Quel too.
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Wol
Pia Iger: quen, about appreciation.
quen Oh: was pondering about that...seems the past-present-future is the organisation of time corresponding to the way things appear to our mind, so if we could overcome the working of our mind, there could be a field where our mind isn't going through and therefor its not organised past-present-future.. not sure if that's helpful
Faenik: could be
Faenik giggles. that tickles.
Pia Iger: it is a good point that linear time is sort of working of our mind.
Faenik: ^^
Adams Dubrovna: We see sequences and think everything is linear
quen Oh: we already know time isn't homogene, like the way we measure it in physics..
Wol Euler: and the _experience_ of time is very variable indeed.
Pia Iger: basically we are open to see if there are other appearance of time to us, beyond normal past-present-future
quen Oh: if we can...
Adams Dubrovna: This morning I realized that time puts pressure on us to get everything done before our lifetime is done
Adams Dubrovna: It is a self-defeating way to think
quen Oh: thats not perhaps a quality of time, but of the conditioning of our own beliefs..
Faenik: why not?

The time question is challenging.

Adams Dubrovna: Yes, when I actually think about time my head feels like it going to explode
Gaya Ethaniel: aww...
Adams Dubrovna: That is an improvement over my reaction earlier in the week :)
Pia Iger: what was that before?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: I felt threatened earlier in the week
quen Oh: again, that's maybe because the opinions and views you have formed make you project expectations in the future
Quel Karillion: threatened? how come?
Gaya Ethaniel: your 'philosophy' under threat right Adams?
Adams Dubrovna: yes. I found out I had a philosophy after all these years :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler smiles
Quel Karillion smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: What a way to find out that you have one!
Adams Dubrovna: It had to do with finding my inner self which was based on the knowledge that the inner person was there at birth and will be there at death
quen Oh: ;-)
Adams Dubrovna: If birth and death are an illusion, then that comes crashing down
Wol Euler: yes, I remember reading that. You felt that fourth time made that inner self impossible?
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Adams Dubrovna: Earlier this week
Adams Dubrovna: So I seeing time in a relative sense not in a scientific sense
Gaya Ethaniel: the inner person is always there?
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: just gets clouded over
Gaya Ethaniel: thoughts... they are misty you know
Adams Dubrovna: yes, self too
Gaya Ethaniel nods

Death comes into the picture.

Pia Iger: when I do YSBS, I will often see the death, or the end of life, which is not normally in my mind. I felt this way, I am seeing clearer the context of life, there is death.
Adams Dubrovna: Death is all around us
Quel Karillion: without death, there is no life and vice verse.
Gaya Ethaniel nods. She doesn't want to live forever
Quel Karillion: two sides of the same coin.
Pia Iger: but we normally don't include this fact in our daily thinking, sort of put away this big picture.
Adams Dubrovna: If we live in the present it is not an issue
quen Oh: YSBS and APAPB ... we might need a dictionary of abbreviations on the table..
Adams Dubrovna: It is only when we look into the future that death is a big issue
Adams Dubrovna: The further we look, the more death is magnified
Faenik: could be
Pia Iger: that is right. another side, if we don't consider the fact of death, our view is incomplete too.
Adams Dubrovna: yes, the language of all these concepts seeming contradict each other which is part of our confusion
Quel Karillion: we can only understand death as what it means when someone else dies. Same with birth.
Adams Dubrovna: seemingly
Adams Dubrovna: yes Quel
Gaya Ethaniel: has to be someone close though...
Adams Dubrovna: we see death of things every day. I wrote about mushrooms the other day. We are like mushrooms

Wol added some human history facts.

Wol Euler finds it interesting that all great human migrations have been westward, towards the setting sun -> hoping to extend life.
Gaya Ethaniel nods... Pure Land is in the west...
Adams Dubrovna: Hmmmm. That is relative Wol since humans began in Africa
Wol Euler: true enough, I was just thinking that :-)
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Faenik: ????^^
Wol Euler: ok, let#s amend that to say "within the last two millenia"
Wol Euler: from Darius the Persian to the California gold.d rush
Adams Dubrovna: They knew that had to get east so they could start moving west :)
Wol Euler: including Attila the Hun
Wol Euler: and the Nibelungen
Wol Euler: (brb, sorry)
Gaya Ethaniel: sure
Faenik: indeed?

I wanted to clarify my point of taking death into consideration.

Pia Iger: anyway, I was just saying that seeing death gives a wider perspective. Normally we just consider the near future(how to build better career/relationship, sort of short-term gain) but not the ultimate one for life.
Adams Dubrovna: Death is reality
Adams Dubrovna: I am moving in the opposite direction, Pia
Quel Karillion: but a reality you only need to deal with when it comes.
Quel Karillion: and will to live plays a big part as well.
Adams Dubrovna: That we need to dwell on the present in our thinking but I agree with you
Quel Karillion: that can make years of difference.
quen Oh: in fact you don't have to do anything with death in my opinion, it will come anyway...
Adams Dubrovna: yes Quen :)

What they said is agreeable. Though not my point.

Pia Iger: but the reality of death, will influence how you want to live now.
Gaya Ethaniel: being aware of that reality is enough... imo. looking in the future... not sure if that's helpful
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, maybe that is the first step and has much to do with me being in PaB
Adams Dubrovna: I was answering Pia :)
Quel Karillion: there's certain wisdom in "live each day as if it was your last"
quen Oh: for me the reality of life will influence how I want to live, death has only something to do with it, that it makes sure life isn't endless
Gaya Ethaniel often gets caught up worrying about the future... and miss out living in the present
Adams Dubrovna: But we are trying to connect with eternity at the same time
Wol Euler: (back, reading)
Adams Dubrovna: It is the connection that is important
Gaya Ethaniel: what does connection with eternity mean to you Adams?
Faenik: ah :)

Quel relatd to a book analogy from a previous meeting, http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2008/09/2008.09.26_01:00_-_Books_and_Being

Quel Karillion: Adams, remember the truckload of books analogy? There's always a book where you live longer.
Adams Dubrovna: I think that I used those words is a reflection of my poor understanding of Being
Wol Euler: ah, another way to understand fourth time: the road not taken.
Adams Dubrovna: I don;t know about the truckload of books analogy :)
Quel Karillion: oh, didn't you read the log?
Gaya Ethaniel: experience of Being... does that require looking into the future?
Adams Dubrovna thinks his house is a truckload of books
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: I don;t think so Gaya
Quel Karillion: yesterday morning 1am
quen Oh is sorry to have to leave, but will read how this ends in the log
quen Oh: bye all
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Dubrovna: bye Quen
Wol Euler: On friday morning, Fael told us about fourth time being like a character in a book
quen Oh is Offline
Adams Dubrovna: Oh, yes but I missed the truckoad part
Gaya Ethaniel: a bit slow here... apologies... so why death an issue for you Adams?
Wol Euler: which I found dreadful because it implies predestination and no free will.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, I remember
Wol Euler: Fael (ahem) then proposed not _a_ book but a truckfull of books any one of which might be the continuation of the story arc of any other.
Gaya Ethaniel: there is a room for free will just that whatever one chooses... the path for each choice has been laid down beforehand
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Dubrovna: Gaya, at a certain point in our lives death becomes more real, especially in relation to those who are dearest to us
Gaya Ethaniel nods

After quen departed, Steve came in.

Quel Karillion: Hi Steve
Adams Dubrovna: Hello Steve
Wol Euler: hello steve
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Gaya Ethaniel: A single day can feel like a year though, depends how one spends it
Pia Iger: (just want to clarify, I brought up death , not in terms of worrying for future, but to add awareness of living now fully)
Wol Euler nods to adams.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, Pia. It is hard to separate them
Gaya Ethaniel: it's related imo Pia
Adams Dubrovna: It is important to help us focus
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Dubrovna: It got my attention :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Carpe diem!
Pia Iger: morning, Steve
Adams Dubrovna: But thinking about death is what made me realize the present is so important. The most important thing I learned in SL was before PaB
Adams Dubrovna: important for me that is
stevenaia Michinaga: hoping I rezzed enough not to ne sitting on anyone
Adams Dubrovna: And that is that it is enough to just be alive
Wol Euler: mm?
Adams Dubrovna: It was a Buddhist who said it
Adams Dubrovna: It is the thought I start with everyday now
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Wol Euler nods

Gaya had some close experience.

Gaya Ethaniel learnt that when she narrowly escaped London bombing
Wol Euler: oh!
Adams Dubrovna: ah Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: also one of my work colleague who was getting married died also
Gaya Ethaniel: it can be taken away just like that
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: doesn't need to be old...
Wol Euler gives your hand a squeeze.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. ty
Gaya Ethaniel: I step out of my house... 'it's a dangerous business you know'
Gaya Ethaniel: though health and safety man told me people do die at home working..
Gaya Ethaniel: so there Adams... age/time has nothing to do with it
Pia Iger: age does make you think more about death.
Adams Dubrovna: yes Gaya. I didn't;t mean to imply otherwise. It is a focusing point for me and for you too
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. I know
Adams Dubrovna: Yes Pia
Adams Dubrovna: Somehow we seem to get older without trying
Gaya Ethaniel is telling grandma how to suck eggs
Wol Euler: lol
Faenik giggles
Pia Iger: from, born, age, death, time does seem linear. Solidly. Nobody gets younger.
Gaya Ethaniel: until it starts all over again perhaps
Adams Dubrovna thinks there goes the new philosophy
Wol Euler: mmhmm

Steve added a good point.

stevenaia Michinaga: but some get wiser and some do not
Wol Euler: though it is not always a straight line.
Adams Dubrovna: some become wise guys
Pia Iger: wise women, too.
Pia Iger: :)
Wol Euler: my father changed little between 65 and late 70's, and has aged enormously in the last two years.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Pia Iger: agree, not even speed. but one direction for sure.
Wol Euler: oh yes
Adams Dubrovna: Still, that is a sequence. Our life is a sequence. It does;t mean time is linear although it very much appears so
Adams Dubrovna: life is a series of sequences
Adams Dubrovna: And then, of course, that is our physical self
Adams Dubrovna: Our relationship with Being has no time
Faenik: ????^^
Gaya Ethaniel: what's about physical self? you mean it follows the linear time? I say enjoy while it lasts...

I do like what Adams and Steve said below.

Adams Dubrovna: Our physical self is tied to some kind of sequence. What is most important to us is not tied to that sequence
Gaya Ethaniel nods
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the older I get physically, the more I enjoy my new found youth
Gaya Ethaniel: (humans are capable of such good)
Wol Euler smiles
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Dubrovna has felt some youth this summer in approaching this with a childlike sense of wonder
Adams Dubrovna surprised I said that
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: I remember visiting son's school and seeing all the 30 something parents, I being somewhat older... and thinking how "old" they seemed in their outlook compared to mine
Wol Euler: good for you, adams :-)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles at stevenaia
Faenik: ????^^

Although our physical self apparently goes in only one direction, our inner self can change in many ways.

Quel Karillion is much less cynical now than a few months ago.
Wol Euler: very good.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: It is a wonderful thing
Quel Karillion: the world can be a joyous place or a dreadful place. It's up to you how you look at it.
Adams Dubrovna: yes
Wol Euler: absolutely.
stevenaia Michinaga: and it is that simple, actually
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. yes there are so much beauty in this world... even in seemingly insignificant things
Adams Dubrovna: yes gaya and Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: for those of us who smile regularly
Quel Karillion: Yes :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Gaya Ethaniel would like to have smile lines on her face when she gets old
Wol Euler is practiciing.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: loose the smile and the clouds form quickly
Gaya Ethaniel nods

A nice detail:

Quel Karillion ponders ... some people have called him someone who always has a smile on his face.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles. that's nice
Quel Karillion: even years ago.
Pia Iger: in addition to smile, I also learn to be comfortable with clouds too.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pia Iger: ok without smiles.
Gaya Ethaniel nods... accepting that it can rain perhaps...
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a good thing as well
Adams Dubrovna thinks it is harder to keep the clouds away when one is living in the real world
Faenik: why not?
stevenaia Michinaga: but the clouds are or aren't within you
stevenaia Michinaga: the real world is just the weather

Steve made such a good summary. Hence I got the title of this log.

Adams Dubrovna: :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pia Iger: ./me reckon the log is long enough now. Can we close the session? open to random chat
Wol Euler: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: a quote from Starman (the movie) we(humans) are best when things are the worst
Pia Iger: ouch!
Adams Dubrovna: OK, by me. This has been a good session for me in that I have had many random thoughts that didn;t seem to go together. Thanks all for helping with that
stevenaia Michinaga: see you all soon
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adams Dubrovna: bye Steve
Wol Euler: ah, it's raining. nice.
Quel Karillion: See you later :)

The rest of us enjoyed a little more casual and fun Sat morning chit-chat.