2008.09.27 07:00 - Real World is Just the Weather

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    Pia Iger as guardian and prepared this log.

    Only Wol and me for the start.

    Wol Euler: hello pia
    Pia Iger: Hi, Wol,
    Pia Iger: thank you for coming:)
    Wol Euler smiles.
    Wol Euler: I suspect we may be alone today.
    Wol Euler: by the look of things.
    Pia Iger: Sat morning is quiet.
    Wol Euler: (I'm sorry to say that I am only half here. I'm IMing with Quel and Adelene about the autologging.)
    Pia Iger: ok.
    Pia Iger: I found there are not as many new drop-by as before too.

    Later, 2 new AVs did stop by, but only said Hi and moved on. So they are removed in this log.

    Wol Euler: mmhmm, it has definitely slowed down.
    Pia Iger: less euros hanging in SL?
    Wol Euler: or university has started again and people are busy?
    Pia Iger: maybe.
    Pia Iger: what to talk about new APAPB exploration?
    Wol Euler: sorry, just a mo :-(

    Other friends appeared. The pavilion became lively.

    Pia Iger: Hi, Adams
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Pia
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Wol
    Pia Iger: Wol is afk.
    quen Oh is Online
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Quel
    Pia Iger: Hi, Quel, Gaya
    Quel Karillion: Hi Pia, Adams, Wol :)
    Adams Dubrovna: You look sexy Wol :)
    Adams Dubrovna: hehe
    Adams Dubrovna: How is everyone?
    Quel Karillion is good.
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Quen
    Quel Karillion: Hi Quen :)
    quen Oh: hello Adams and Quel
    quen Oh: and hi Wol
    Pia Iger: I am fine. Just started my question: what to talk about new APAPB exploration?
    Adams Dubrovna: Nice gathering of Europeans and rained-out east coasters :)
    quen Oh: oh and now Pia rezzes
    Wol Euler surfaces and waves apologetically.
    quen Oh: hi Pia
    Pia Iger: Hi, Quen
    Faenik: ????^^
    Adams Dubrovna: Pia, did you see I tried the exploration the other way?
    quen Oh: ;-) hi Faenik to *winks
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Dubrovna: Hi Gaya
    Pia Iger: not yet, Adams. eager to read.
    Faenik: ^^

    quen brought up the question that hangs in our guardians' mind since last weekend.

    quen Oh: you mean the fourth time Pia?
    Wol Euler: back, sorry about that.
    Wol Euler: hello quen
    quen Oh: hi Wol
    Wol Euler: hello gaya and Quel too.
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb Wol
    Pia Iger: quen, about appreciation.
    quen Oh: was pondering about that...seems the past-present-future is the organisation of time corresponding to the way things appear to our mind, so if we could overcome the working of our mind, there could be a field where our mind isn't going through and therefor its not organised past-present-future.. not sure if that's helpful
    Faenik: could be
    Faenik giggles. that tickles.
    Pia Iger: it is a good point that linear time is sort of working of our mind.
    Faenik: ^^
    Adams Dubrovna: We see sequences and think everything is linear
    quen Oh: we already know time isn't homogene, like the way we measure it in physics..
    Wol Euler: and the _experience_ of time is very variable indeed.
    Pia Iger: basically we are open to see if there are other appearance of time to us, beyond normal past-present-future
    quen Oh: if we can...
    Adams Dubrovna: This morning I realized that time puts pressure on us to get everything done before our lifetime is done
    Adams Dubrovna: It is a self-defeating way to think
    quen Oh: thats not perhaps a quality of time, but of the conditioning of our own beliefs..
    Faenik: why not?

    The time question is challenging.

    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, when I actually think about time my head feels like it going to explode
    Gaya Ethaniel: aww...
    Adams Dubrovna: That is an improvement over my reaction earlier in the week :)
    Pia Iger: what was that before?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: I felt threatened earlier in the week
    quen Oh: again, that's maybe because the opinions and views you have formed make you project expectations in the future
    Quel Karillion: threatened? how come?
    Gaya Ethaniel: your 'philosophy' under threat right Adams?
    Adams Dubrovna: yes. I found out I had a philosophy after all these years :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler smiles
    Quel Karillion smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: What a way to find out that you have one!
    Adams Dubrovna: It had to do with finding my inner self which was based on the knowledge that the inner person was there at birth and will be there at death
    quen Oh: ;-)
    Adams Dubrovna: If birth and death are an illusion, then that comes crashing down
    Wol Euler: yes, I remember reading that. You felt that fourth time made that inner self impossible?
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Adams Dubrovna: Earlier this week
    Adams Dubrovna: So I seeing time in a relative sense not in a scientific sense
    Gaya Ethaniel: the inner person is always there?
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: just gets clouded over
    Gaya Ethaniel: thoughts... they are misty you know
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, self too
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    Death comes into the picture.

    Pia Iger: when I do YSBS, I will often see the death, or the end of life, which is not normally in my mind. I felt this way, I am seeing clearer the context of life, there is death.
    Adams Dubrovna: Death is all around us
    Quel Karillion: without death, there is no life and vice verse.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods. She doesn't want to live forever
    Quel Karillion: two sides of the same coin.
    Pia Iger: but we normally don't include this fact in our daily thinking, sort of put away this big picture.
    Adams Dubrovna: If we live in the present it is not an issue
    quen Oh: YSBS and APAPB ... we might need a dictionary of abbreviations on the table..
    Adams Dubrovna: It is only when we look into the future that death is a big issue
    Adams Dubrovna: The further we look, the more death is magnified
    Faenik: could be
    Pia Iger: that is right. another side, if we don't consider the fact of death, our view is incomplete too.
    Adams Dubrovna: yes, the language of all these concepts seeming contradict each other which is part of our confusion
    Quel Karillion: we can only understand death as what it means when someone else dies. Same with birth.
    Adams Dubrovna: seemingly
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Quel
    Gaya Ethaniel: has to be someone close though...
    Adams Dubrovna: we see death of things every day. I wrote about mushrooms the other day. We are like mushrooms

    Wol added some human history facts.

    Wol Euler finds it interesting that all great human migrations have been westward, towards the setting sun -> hoping to extend life.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... Pure Land is in the west...
    Adams Dubrovna: Hmmmm. That is relative Wol since humans began in Africa
    Wol Euler: true enough, I was just thinking that :-)
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Faenik: ????^^
    Wol Euler: ok, let#s amend that to say "within the last two millenia"
    Wol Euler: from Darius the Persian to the California gold.d rush
    Adams Dubrovna: They knew that had to get east so they could start moving west :)
    Wol Euler: including Attila the Hun
    Wol Euler: and the Nibelungen
    Wol Euler: (brb, sorry)
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure
    Faenik: indeed?

    I wanted to clarify my point of taking death into consideration.

    Pia Iger: anyway, I was just saying that seeing death gives a wider perspective. Normally we just consider the near future(how to build better career/relationship, sort of short-term gain) but not the ultimate one for life.
    Adams Dubrovna: Death is reality
    Adams Dubrovna: I am moving in the opposite direction, Pia
    Quel Karillion: but a reality you only need to deal with when it comes.
    Quel Karillion: and will to live plays a big part as well.
    Adams Dubrovna: That we need to dwell on the present in our thinking but I agree with you
    Quel Karillion: that can make years of difference.
    quen Oh: in fact you don't have to do anything with death in my opinion, it will come anyway...
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Quen :)

    What they said is agreeable. Though not my point.

    Pia Iger: but the reality of death, will influence how you want to live now.
    Gaya Ethaniel: being aware of that reality is enough... imo. looking in the future... not sure if that's helpful
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, maybe that is the first step and has much to do with me being in PaB
    Adams Dubrovna: I was answering Pia :)
    Quel Karillion: there's certain wisdom in "live each day as if it was your last"
    quen Oh: for me the reality of life will influence how I want to live, death has only something to do with it, that it makes sure life isn't endless
    Gaya Ethaniel often gets caught up worrying about the future... and miss out living in the present
    Adams Dubrovna: But we are trying to connect with eternity at the same time
    Wol Euler: (back, reading)
    Adams Dubrovna: It is the connection that is important
    Gaya Ethaniel: what does connection with eternity mean to you Adams?
    Faenik: ah :)

    Quel relatd to a book analogy from a previous meeting, http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2008/09/2008.09.26_01:00_-_Books_and_Being

    Quel Karillion: Adams, remember the truckload of books analogy? There's always a book where you live longer.
    Adams Dubrovna: I think that I used those words is a reflection of my poor understanding of Being
    Wol Euler: ah, another way to understand fourth time: the road not taken.
    Adams Dubrovna: I don;t know about the truckload of books analogy :)
    Quel Karillion: oh, didn't you read the log?
    Gaya Ethaniel: experience of Being... does that require looking into the future?
    Adams Dubrovna thinks his house is a truckload of books
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: I don;t think so Gaya
    Quel Karillion: yesterday morning 1am
    quen Oh is sorry to have to leave, but will read how this ends in the log
    quen Oh: bye all
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Quen
    Wol Euler: On friday morning, Fael told us about fourth time being like a character in a book
    quen Oh is Offline
    Adams Dubrovna: Oh, yes but I missed the truckoad part
    Gaya Ethaniel: a bit slow here... apologies... so why death an issue for you Adams?
    Wol Euler: which I found dreadful because it implies predestination and no free will.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, I remember
    Wol Euler: Fael (ahem) then proposed not _a_ book but a truckfull of books any one of which might be the continuation of the story arc of any other.
    Gaya Ethaniel: there is a room for free will just that whatever one chooses... the path for each choice has been laid down beforehand
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Dubrovna: Gaya, at a certain point in our lives death becomes more real, especially in relation to those who are dearest to us
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    After quen departed, Steve came in.

    Quel Karillion: Hi Steve
    Adams Dubrovna: Hello Steve
    Wol Euler: hello steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Gaya Ethaniel: A single day can feel like a year though, depends how one spends it
    Pia Iger: (just want to clarify, I brought up death , not in terms of worrying for future, but to add awareness of living now fully)
    Wol Euler nods to adams.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes, Pia. It is hard to separate them
    Gaya Ethaniel: it's related imo Pia
    Adams Dubrovna: It is important to help us focus
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Dubrovna: It got my attention :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Carpe diem!
    Pia Iger: morning, Steve
    Adams Dubrovna: But thinking about death is what made me realize the present is so important. The most important thing I learned in SL was before PaB
    Adams Dubrovna: important for me that is
    stevenaia Michinaga: hoping I rezzed enough not to ne sitting on anyone
    Adams Dubrovna: And that is that it is enough to just be alive
    Wol Euler: mm?
    Adams Dubrovna: It was a Buddhist who said it
    Adams Dubrovna: It is the thought I start with everyday now
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Wol Euler nods

    Gaya had some close experience.

    Gaya Ethaniel learnt that when she narrowly escaped London bombing
    Wol Euler: oh!
    Adams Dubrovna: ah Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: also one of my work colleague who was getting married died also
    Gaya Ethaniel: it can be taken away just like that
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: doesn't need to be old...
    Wol Euler gives your hand a squeeze.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. ty
    Gaya Ethaniel: I step out of my house... 'it's a dangerous business you know'
    Gaya Ethaniel: though health and safety man told me people do die at home working..
    Gaya Ethaniel: so there Adams... age/time has nothing to do with it
    Pia Iger: age does make you think more about death.
    Adams Dubrovna: yes Gaya. I didn't;t mean to imply otherwise. It is a focusing point for me and for you too
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. I know
    Adams Dubrovna: Yes Pia
    Adams Dubrovna: Somehow we seem to get older without trying
    Gaya Ethaniel is telling grandma how to suck eggs
    Wol Euler: lol
    Faenik giggles
    Pia Iger: from, born, age, death, time does seem linear. Solidly. Nobody gets younger.
    Gaya Ethaniel: until it starts all over again perhaps
    Adams Dubrovna thinks there goes the new philosophy
    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    Steve added a good point.

    stevenaia Michinaga: but some get wiser and some do not
    Wol Euler: though it is not always a straight line.
    Adams Dubrovna: some become wise guys
    Pia Iger: wise women, too.
    Pia Iger: :)
    Wol Euler: my father changed little between 65 and late 70's, and has aged enormously in the last two years.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Pia Iger: agree, not even speed. but one direction for sure.
    Wol Euler: oh yes
    Adams Dubrovna: Still, that is a sequence. Our life is a sequence. It does;t mean time is linear although it very much appears so
    Adams Dubrovna: life is a series of sequences
    Adams Dubrovna: And then, of course, that is our physical self
    Adams Dubrovna: Our relationship with Being has no time
    Faenik: ????^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: what's about physical self? you mean it follows the linear time? I say enjoy while it lasts...

    I do like what Adams and Steve said below.

    Adams Dubrovna: Our physical self is tied to some kind of sequence. What is most important to us is not tied to that sequence
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the older I get physically, the more I enjoy my new found youth
    Gaya Ethaniel: (humans are capable of such good)
    Wol Euler smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Dubrovna has felt some youth this summer in approaching this with a childlike sense of wonder
    Adams Dubrovna surprised I said that
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: I remember visiting son's school and seeing all the 30 something parents, I being somewhat older... and thinking how "old" they seemed in their outlook compared to mine
    Wol Euler: good for you, adams :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles at stevenaia
    Faenik: ????^^

    Although our physical self apparently goes in only one direction, our inner self can change in many ways.

    Quel Karillion is much less cynical now than a few months ago.
    Wol Euler: very good.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: It is a wonderful thing
    Quel Karillion: the world can be a joyous place or a dreadful place. It's up to you how you look at it.
    Adams Dubrovna: yes
    Wol Euler: absolutely.
    stevenaia Michinaga: and it is that simple, actually
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. yes there are so much beauty in this world... even in seemingly insignificant things
    Adams Dubrovna: yes gaya and Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: for those of us who smile regularly
    Quel Karillion: Yes :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel would like to have smile lines on her face when she gets old
    Wol Euler is practiciing.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    stevenaia Michinaga: loose the smile and the clouds form quickly
    Gaya Ethaniel nods

    A nice detail:

    Quel Karillion ponders ... some people have called him someone who always has a smile on his face.
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. that's nice
    Quel Karillion: even years ago.
    Pia Iger: in addition to smile, I also learn to be comfortable with clouds too.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pia Iger: ok without smiles.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... accepting that it can rain perhaps...
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, a good thing as well
    Adams Dubrovna thinks it is harder to keep the clouds away when one is living in the real world
    Faenik: why not?
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the clouds are or aren't within you
    stevenaia Michinaga: the real world is just the weather

    Steve made such a good summary. Hence I got the title of this log.

    Adams Dubrovna: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Pia Iger: ./me reckon the log is long enough now. Can we close the session? open to random chat
    Wol Euler: :-)
    stevenaia Michinaga: a quote from Starman (the movie) we(humans) are best when things are the worst
    Pia Iger: ouch!
    Adams Dubrovna: OK, by me. This has been a good session for me in that I have had many random thoughts that didn;t seem to go together. Thanks all for helping with that
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you all soon
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Adams Dubrovna: bye Steve
    Wol Euler: ah, it's raining. nice.
    Quel Karillion: See you later :)

    The rest of us enjoyed a little more casual and fun Sat morning chit-chat.

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