2009.04.10 13:00 - A Concrete House of Cards

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville; comments are by his.

    I arrived at the Playgoda and waited a few minutes until Pema arrived.

    Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
    Solobill Laville: Hello. Pema! :)
    Pema Pera: what's on your mind these days?
    Solobill Laville: How to do all of the things I need to do and still have a mind like water!!!
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Pema Pera: hahaha, I know the problem . . . .
    Solobill Laville: How are you??
    Pema Pera: such a nice way to put it!

    Zen joins us.

    Pema Pera: Hi Zen!
    Pema Pera: Yes, as for me, I could say the same, Solo
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Zen :)
    Solobill Laville: I bet you could....
    Pema Pera: But being in California helps my water from not freezing over :)
    Solobill Laville: hehe, true
    Pema Pera: I'll be here for another week
    Pema Pera: always enjoy visiting the Bay Area
    Solobill Laville: How is Berzerkely these days?
    Pema Pera: oh, the People's Republic?
    Pema Pera: This time I didn't even have to show my passport
    Solobill Laville: Green Hills this time of year...I remember fondly
    Pema Pera: :)
    Solobill Laville: How are you Zen?
    Zen Arado: pretty god
    Zen Arado: and you?
    Zen Arado: good :)
    Pema Pera: I like the "pretty god"
    Zen Arado: not God yet :)
    Solobill Laville: Good, thanks...hehe
    Pema Pera: as a reminder of what we all deep down already are :)
    Solobill Laville: I just let that one go...
    Zen Arado: true
    Pema Pera: go, god, gone
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Pema Pera: gone beyond
    Zen Arado: gate gate
    Solobill Laville: I was at a retreat this past weekend
    Pema Pera: bodhi svaha
    Zen Arado: ah good
    Pema Pera: how was it?
    Zen Arado: where?
    Solobill Laville: in Ann Arbor, Mi
    Solobill Laville: It was good, a LOT of sitting... :)
    Pema Pera: who led it?
    Zen Arado: who led?
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Solobill Laville: Haju Sunim, of the Zen Buddhist Temple here
    Solobill Laville: resident priest of 20 years or so

    Fefonz joins us.

    Pema Pera: Hi Fef!
    Zen Arado: how long was it?
    Fefonz Quan: Hi all :)
    Solobill Laville: Anyway, my point is you can really feel your practice deepen with that focus
    Zen Arado: Hi Fef
    Solobill Laville: Thrus - Sunday
    Solobill Laville: *Thursday
    Solobill Laville: Heya, Fef :)
    Zen Arado: I was supposed to go to one 2 weeks from now
    Solobill Laville: "was supposed"...hmmmm ;)
    Zen Arado: led bu Paul Haller from SFZC
    Solobill Laville: Not going to then?
    Zen Arado: no
    Zen Arado: it is too exhausting for me
    Solobill Laville: Oh, it is exhausting indeed
    Zen Arado: venue is not very accessible and I am in a wheelchair
    Solobill Laville: 17 hour days with 9 hours of sitting, plus manual labor on my last one
    Solobill Laville: ah...ok :)
    Zen Arado: I did 3 last tear
    Solobill Laville: That is great!
    Zen Arado: 2 5 -day and 1 3 day
    Pema Pera: wonderful typos today!
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Pema Pera: sitting till the last tear . . . .
    Solobill Laville: oh, yes
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Is it at Tassajara?
    Zen Arado: friends who help weren't going
    Zen Arado: no in N.Ireland
    Solobill Laville: Oh!
    Zen Arado: Paul comes here 2 times a year
    Solobill Laville: OK
    Zen Arado: Tassajara is VERY inaccessible
    Zen Arado: wouldnt even consider it
    Zen Arado: Paul comes from N.Ireland
    Solobill Laville: ah, I see
    Zen Arado: feels it a duty to come here
    Zen Arado: there are no permanent teaachers
    Solobill Laville: NOt in Belfast even?
    Zen Arado: might get to summer sesshin
    Zen Arado: no
    Zen Arado: there is NKT group has one
    Zen Arado: but not sure about them
    Zen Arado: prefer zen or tibetan
    Solobill Laville nods
    Solobill Laville: Have you been exploring the PaB exercises at all Zen?
    Zen Arado: I try to stay aware all the time
    Solobill Laville: Ah! Only that! lol
    Zen Arado: in other words - no :)
    Solobill Laville: A lofty goal :))
    Zen Arado: maybe too lofty
    Zen Arado: :)
    Solobill Laville: Yes, well if so I was going to follow up with how you feel it integrates with your other practice
    Solobill Laville: I dind it does quite well :)
    Solobill Laville: Even towards meeting that lofty goal
    Zen Arado: you ever go to Dokwang's meetings in SL?
    Solobill Laville: Yes
    Zen Arado: he advocates ABC = attention, breathing and corporal awareness
    Pema Pera: a nice reminder!
    Zen Arado: I try to practice that
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Solobill Laville: Basics are good!

    Wester joins us.

    Solobill Laville: Hello, Wester! :)
    Wester Kiranov: hi all
    Fefonz Quan: corporal - meaning corporate all we observe into our experience?
    Zen Arado: I think I am coming back to breathing etc more and more often
    Zen Arado: just means the body
    Fefonz Quan: hey wester :)
    Zen Arado: Hi Wester
    Fefonz Quan: (ah, from corpus...)
    Zen Arado: moments of irritation are good reminders
    Solobill Laville: The breath is the bridge, organic stability
    Wester Kiranov: hi - sorry i'm a bit late
    Pema Pera: Hi Wester!
    Zen Arado: corpulent :)
    Solobill Laville: We might have to dock it from your paycheck this time, Wester... :)
    Pema Pera: yes, to feel anger rising . . . .
    Pema Pera: great reminder to stay mindful
    Pema Pera: and bodyful :)
    Zen Arado: or little hurt feelings
    Zen Arado: self pity
    Zen Arado: etc
    Pema Pera: nono, solo, we will double Wester's paycheck, to increase her motivation!
    Solobill Laville: Fear / anger are the big 1-2 punch perhaps
    Pema Pera: from zero to zero :-)
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Zen Arado: maybe should inclused happy feelings
    Zen Arado: :)
    Fefonz Quan: that can be done with fefonz's paycheck too ;-)
    Solobill Laville: Yes, those can be tricky too, Zen...but they are so fleeting as to be a good reminder of impermanence ;)
    Fefonz Quan agrees with solo about fear/anger
    Solobill Laville: (sometimes they are 'so fleeting', think that sounded too pessimistic :))
    Zen Arado: I am looking at the seven points of mind training
    Zen Arado: at the moment
    Fefonz Quan: could you say more about fear/anger Solo?
    Solobill Laville: Sure
    Solobill Laville: Here is an example
    Solobill Laville: I was at an intensive retreat this past weekend
    Solobill Laville: Which can really help to clear one's mind, obviously
    Solobill Laville: I actually got a bit ill at one point and had to lay down
    Solobill Laville: As I was lying there I was struck with a great fear
    Solobill Laville: - similar to the base fear of death that we all feel at some point -
    Solobill Laville: I hadn't felt it in a long time
    Pema Pera: that's great, Solo!
    Solobill Laville: I felt like leaving the retreat
    Pema Pera: congratulations!
    Zen Arado: like a panic attack ?
    Solobill Laville: But explored it
    Pema Pera: to be gripped like that is wonderful fuel
    Solobill Laville: And felt it was my "ego" trying strangle hold me...in a way of speaking
    Zen Arado: could be
    Fefonz Quan met the strangling ego too :)
    Solobill Laville: yes, Pema, and a great feeling of conquering it to defeat, even in a little way
    Zen Arado: as long as you didn't try to repress it
    Solobill Laville: Oh, no :)
    Fefonz Quan: so what did you do solo?
    Zen Arado: I think most ppl do
    Pema Pera: yes, to let the ego die, Solo, very concretely!
    Solobill Laville: I faced that little gremlin (ego attachments), as I have before
    Solobill Laville: devilly little bugger
    Zen Arado: it never gives up :)
    Fefonz Quan: (and hope you didn't water that gremlin)
    Solobill Laville: hehe, no!
    Pema Pera: sorry, RL calling, have to leave now
    Fefonz Quan: bye Pema
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Pema
    Pema Pera: sorry to leave this fascinating conversation!
    Zen Arado: bye Pema
    Wester Kiranov: bye pema
    Pema Pera: Hope we can pick it up later again, Zen and all !
    Pema Pera: bye for now
    Solobill Laville: But, I think a point of all that is, the ego uses that base fear as a tool

    Wol joins us.

    Fefonz Quan: Heya Wol :)
    Wol Euler: hello everyone
    Zen Arado: Hi Wol
    Wol Euler: sorry I'm late
    Solobill Laville smiles at Wol
    Wester Kiranov: hi wol
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Wol!
    Fefonz Quan: a tool for what Solo?
    Fefonz Quan: for it's survival?
    Solobill Laville: To survive, Fef
    Solobill Laville: yes
    Fefonz Quan: great minds think aloke :)
    Zen Arado: agree
    Zen Arado: it wants to stay in control
    Fefonz Quan: and small fingers type aloke ;-)
    Solobill Laville: It has built a concrete house of cards!
    Wol Euler: a nice expressoin.
    Zen Arado: yes
    Wester Kiranov: it wants to think it's in control when it isn't
    Solobill Laville nods
    Wester Kiranov: yes, that's a nice expression
    Zen Arado: trouble is that it is usualy

    Tarmle joins us.


    Solobill Laville: Hiya, Tarmel :)
    Wol Euler: hello tarmel
    Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: your concrete house brings me exactly to this morning session
    Wester Kiranov: hi tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: morning folks
    Solobill Laville: Good morning! Happy Saturday!
    Fefonz Quan: when a concrete house tears down, it can be quite dangerous
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it is and rather eraly
    Fefonz Quan: and Happy Passover!
    Tarmel Udimo: early
    Wester Kiranov: good evening all
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Solobill Laville: (hehe - afternoon here)
    Solobill Laville: We've got it all covered :)
    Zen Arado: 9.30 pm for me
    Tarmel Udimo: nods
    Zen Arado: why is it dangerous FE?
    Fefonz Quan: well those concrete stones can fall on your head.
    Zen Arado: oh :)
    Zen Arado: was going with the metaphor :)
    Zen Arado: thinking ego can be protective in some way
    Zen Arado: only protects us from waking up
    Zen Arado: ?
    Solobill Laville: Side effect, perhaps yes
    Solobill Laville: but defininate self preservation
    Fefonz Quan: well also it protects us from being hurt is a certain way
    Solobill Laville: Go on Fef
    Fefonz Quan: (as fear does also)
    Zen Arado: like high self esteem ?
    Fefonz Quan: don't really understand teh question zen?
    Zen Arado: well if we have a high opinion about ourselves we wont take any notice of hurtful criticism?
    Zen Arado: or not so much anyway ?
    Fefonz Quan: that's a good example, though i would consider self esteem as high-level mechanism, thus harder to evaluate
    Fefonz Quan: on a more basic way, we fear when we suspect something will hurt us
    Fefonz Quan: if a car rushes towards you, you fear, and that's quite normal i would say
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: I am not clear about how no self fits with self eteem
    Fefonz Quan: surely it does not fit :)
    Zen Arado: have to look more at that
    Solobill Laville: Is it really different than any other form of "attachment"?
    Fefonz Quan: thich naht han says about it: "there are three kind of pride:
    Solobill Laville: The trick may be to be aware of it...
    Wester Kiranov: I think you can esteem your self without being (too) attached to it
    Wester Kiranov: in principle :)
    Fefonz Quan: thinking your are better than others, thinking other are better than you, and - thinking that you and other are exactly the same"
    Solobill Laville: The third kind transcends this other stuff...so it really isn't an issue - if you can really maintain that
    Fefonz Quan: others*
    Zen Arado: yes - no-self is it really
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i liked the third one most. that really makes you think :)
    Solobill Laville: Well, yes, that is really IT
    Zen Arado: not high or low
    Fefonz Quan: my view was - when the need to compare oneself to others vanishes,
    Fefonz Quan: then you are free.
    Wester Kiranov: I think different and the same have several different meanings in this conversation
    Fefonz Quan: fi you do compare, even if the result is an equation - you are still dealing with ego stuff
    Wester Kiranov: still have to work out which ones
    Solobill Laville: Yes, in fact it no longer makes any sense to think of the comparison :)
    Wester Kiranov: i like that fef
    Wol Euler nods
    Zen Arado: yes
    Zen Arado: we are all different yet all the same
    Fefonz Quan: i'm not :)
    Wol Euler: heh, the true individualist
    Zen Arado: not what ? :)
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Wester Kiranov: :P
    Fefonz Quan: different. (a quote from 'life of Brian")
    Wol Euler: yep ;)
    Wester Kiranov: great scene
    Wol Euler: oddly appropriate to Easter/Pesach :)
    Zen Arado: cant remember it :)
    Zen Arado: always look at the bright side of life ?
    Wester Kiranov: he opens the window in the morning and sees this crowd
    Fefonz Quan: Brian wakes up in the morning, and there is a mob outside hawling for him
    Wester Kiranov: and he tells them "you are all individuals"
    Wester Kiranov: and they reply "yes, we're all individuals"
    Zen Arado: :)
    Wol Euler: in perfect unison!
    Wester Kiranov: except one old lady who says "no, I'm not"
    Zen Arado: :)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Wol Euler: a great moment.
    Fefonz Quan: So, if we transcend fear, will it stop defending us?
    Zen Arado: there will be nothing to defend?
    Solobill Laville: Constant work :) It defends our ego though...
    Wol Euler: one might retain commonsense though? as in not standing in front of busses
    Solobill Laville: not "us", very important distinction
    Solobill Laville: Well, we can't love our parents and children if we let ourselves get whalloped by a bus now can we? :P
    Wol Euler: exctly.
    Fefonz Quan: ok, so we agreed on no bus collisions :)
    Solobill Laville: My ego concurs...
    Solobill Laville: (the little bugger)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Zen Arado: :)
    Wol Euler: awwww
    Zen Arado: mine is pretty big :)
    Wol Euler strokes Solo's ego's furry little ears
    Zen Arado: big bugger :)
    Solobill Laville: hehe
    Zen Arado: chipping at it though
    Zen Arado: or should it deflate suddenly :)
    Fefonz Quan: "i see you bugger is bigger than mine"
    Zen Arado: in a kensho moment?
    Solobill Laville: Cultivation is the best
    Zen Arado: ha ha
    Fefonz Quan: your*
    Solobill Laville: I heard a great analogy last year
    Solobill Laville: It is like a mountain stream in winter ...
    Zen Arado: I have the biggest ego here :)
    Solobill Laville: the water underneath is always flowing
    Solobill Laville: but you can't see it through the ice
    Solobill Laville: practice slowly melts it away
    Solobill Laville: and you can start to see the flow
    Solobill Laville: more and more
    Solobill Laville: clearer and clearer
    Zen Arado: yes good Solo
    Solobill Laville: then, just water :)
    Fefonz Quan: so the ego was the ice? (fefonz a little slow today)
    Wol Euler: take care that it doesn't work the other way though, that one deludes oneself that it is gone because ice and snow cover it over...
    Solobill Laville: the encrustations of our ego / attachments / fears / clinging, yes
    Solobill Laville considers Wol's comment
    Fefonz Quan: yes, Wol, delusions like "it is all water, no icebergs here"
    Tarmel Udimo: (bye all must be off to Pheono)
    Solobill Laville: Bye, tarrmel
    Fefonz Quan: we all know how that ends :)
    Tarmel Udimo: Happy easter
    Zen Arado: bye Tarmel
    Fefonz Quan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saalGKY7ifU
    Solobill Laville: You too
    Wol Euler: bye tarmel, take care.happy easter to you too
    Fefonz Quan: bye tarmel
    Wester Kiranov: bye tarmel
    Solobill Laville: I think, Wol, that the water is parallel to our "real nature", so we're not trying to make it gone, but see it
    Solobill Laville: Did I read your comment right, or no?
    Wol Euler: ah, so the ego is the ice not the stream?
    Solobill Laville: yes!
    Wol Euler: I wasn't sure what was being equated to what.
    Fefonz Quan: (thats what i thought too)
    Wol Euler: ok, now we have it.
    Zen Arado: analogies break down when you push them too far
    Solobill Laville: :P Bad analogy I guess!!
    Fefonz Quan: hence my iceberg remarks...
    Solobill Laville: Hmm, I think I blew it, that is on ancient one...
    Zen Arado: I think it is a good analogy

    Gen poofs in - then quickly poofs out...

    Solobill Laville: Gen!
    Wol Euler: hello gen
    Zen Arado: Hi Gen
    Wester Kiranov: hi gen. do you mean to be here or are you heading for pheno?
    Wester Kiranov: i guess she was heading for pheno...
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, there should be a feature to ask you where you want to be befoer you rez
    Wol Euler: oh but there is :)
    Wol Euler: you can set SL to start in any of three places: your home, where you last were, or you can gype in the name of sim to be landed in
    Solobill Laville: Friends, I must be off...
    Fefonz Quan: name of sim is local enough?
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Solo
    Wester Kiranov: bye solo
    Fefonz Quan: may you be the flowing water
    Wol Euler: bye solo, happy easter.
    Solobill Laville: Have a great weekend, whatever you Holiday or non-Holiday!
    Zen Arado: bye Solo
    Wol Euler: avoid the ice, except in your drinks
    Solobill Laville flows like the water...
    Wol Euler: every sim has a designated "entry point", which always exists but an be overridden by the local entry points of the parcel you tp into
    Fefonz Quan: i can always count on wol to have more biting metaphors :)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Zen Arado: thanks for discussion
    Zen Arado: bye
    Fefonz Quan: i see. i would prefer the landmark list from my inventory :)
    Wol Euler: bye zen, take care. happy easter.
    Fefonz Quan: bye zen
    Wol Euler: ah, that you can't do -- yet.
    Fefonz Quan: i willl be on my way to, heading to RL NYC :)
    Wol Euler: oh nice. Say hello to it from me :)
    Wester Kiranov: bye fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: i sure will Wol :)
    Fefonz Quan: bye wester, wol
    Wol Euler: bye for now, chag sameach pesach
    Wol Euler: (two days late)
    Fefonz Quan: and still most welcome! and it last 7 days
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Wol Euler: I shall be off too, bed calls. Goodnight Wester, happy easter.
    Wester Kiranov: goodnight, see you around
    Wester Kiranov: namaste

    Tag page (Edit tags)
    • No tags

    Files 1

    FileSizeDateAttached by 
    No description
    92.31 kB14:59, 9 Apr 2010SolobillActions
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core