2009.04.12 19:00 - Painting my fence

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

I arrived to an empty pavilion,  Eos Amaterasu arrived shortly after.  I had jut met him today for the the first time at an earlier PaB session.  Pema Pera  and Pila Mulligan followed close behind.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos
stevenaia Michinaga: hello again
Eos Amaterasu: hi stevenaia
stevenaia Michinaga: does your SL profile relate to your RL interests?
Eos Amaterasu: K
Eos Amaterasu: I'll have to look at it again :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, those are life interests, whether RL or SL
stevenaia Michinaga: hi pema
Pema Pera: Hi Steve, Eos!
stevenaia Michinaga: where are you these days?
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Pema
stevenaia Michinaga: I was painting my picket fence today, it was interesting how the mind wonders and focuses when in painting meditation
stevenaia Michinaga: seems play and painting as Being could be related
Pema Pera: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Acting as Being?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I think the stillness of mind is all it may take to begin
Pema Pera: yes, we need stillness to open up to see
stevenaia Michinaga: it certainly helps
Eos Amaterasu: It permeates?
stevenaia Michinaga: it seems to be something generally lacking in western culture...stillness
Eos Amaterasu: Space is the place - Sun Ra
Pila Mulligan: hi
Eos Amaterasu: HI Pila
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
Pema Pera: hi there Pila!
Eos Amaterasu: What was it / is it about painting that like play brings out stillness / being?
stevenaia Michinaga: painting, work (for me) there is a stillness related to what pema said, that opens up your mind
stevenaia Michinaga: to see
stevenaia Michinaga: to listen to what fills the space
Pema Pera: (wow, four men in SL, that's unusual -- given that half the men I know appear as women here, and no woman I know appears as a man . . . . . this must be an exceptional meeting!)
stevenaia Michinaga: laughs, I can change to help with the balance?
Eos Amaterasu: (interested stats - I also noticed that men being in majority in SL is very rare)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: I wonder what it is that makes men to want to experiment with gender change, but not women, in SL
stevenaia Michinaga: because many men are women
Pila Mulligan: women also play with gender appearances in SL
Pila Mulligan: occasionally :)
Pema Pera: very few though
Pema Pera: 10% or less compared to men!
Pila Mulligan: yep, relatively
Eos Amaterasu: (reliable stats?)
Pila Mulligan: hearsay at best
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: yes, I have heard from many friends, and it fits with my own experience, of a few hundred friends :)
Pema Pera: so quite reliable!
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps it is the inverse of the makeup of China, with a disproportionate number of men ,30,000,000 more
Pema Pera: scary statistic, that
Eos Amaterasu: woman _is_ space, from some points of view
Pema Pera: so man is time, then?
stevenaia Michinaga: can you explain Eos?
Pila Mulligan: Mahu in traditional Hawai'ian or Kanaka Maoli culture are third gender persons -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahu
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, was thinking more like man is manifestation
Pila Mulligan: excuse me Eos, please proceed :)
Eos Amaterasu: ie, in tibetan buddhism male female in consort female is space
Pila Mulligan: that would comport with yin, of yin and yasng
Eos Amaterasu: yes
Pila Mulligan: but yin as female is way overstated
Pila Mulligan: overstated*
Eos Amaterasu: it's not necessarily gender
Pila Mulligan: indeed
Pila Mulligan: attributes at best
Eos Amaterasu: feminine principle could be had by either gender.... to some extent
Eos Amaterasu: when i first logged in and registered with a name, & was given list of last names to choose from
Eos Amaterasu: Amaterasu jumped out, there in the "A"s
Eos Amaterasu: Amaterasu is principle kami, Japan, of light, sun - she's female
Eos Amaterasu: but somehow I felt immediately I had to choose that name
stevenaia Michinaga: it has a wikipedia page
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaterasu
Eos Amaterasu: yes... and she has a shrine, replica of Isé, here in SL
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the last names available change over time, wonders which Linden gets that charge
stevenaia Michinaga: as you pointed out once...Michinaga exerted de facto reign over Japan in the early 11th century.
stevenaia Michinaga: but that was not why I chose it
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: I love why you chose it, Steve
Pila Mulligan: at least, as you said the other day
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, closest last name that reminded me of a yiddish word..mishugana
Pila Mulligan: all day I've been trying to get past the thought that one of the world's major religious figures has his birth associated with Santa Claus and his resurrection associated with the Easter Bunny

Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!
Pila Mulligan: hi eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi again Pema, Steven, Pila, and Eos (nice to meet you...we've seen one another before)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: and the owner of the company that makes marshmallow peeps and Peeps Christmas Trees is jewish
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: they are made in my town
Eliza Madrigal admits to hiding eggs today :) =P~
Eos Amaterasu: space has a sense of humor!
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: or humor brings a sense of space :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: sound similar to what you were talking about with MLK and what surrounded him... a peaceful sense of space
stevenaia Michinaga: Pila
Pila Mulligan: Steve, I think in that instance the situation (opponents throwing rocks) gave special emphasis to the peaceful space, but that it was probably there around him all the time
Pila Mulligan: the added tension emphasized it
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure it was, but space defined by energy (even humor)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Eos Amaterasu: space holds both Sl & RL
Pila Mulligan: Eos, I missed the first part of this session -- were you addressing space as a topic then?
Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia suggested painting as play as being, providing space (I think?)
Pila Mulligan: ahh, i arrived at [19:12] Eos Amaterasu: Space is the place - Sun Ra
stevenaia Michinaga: inner space to think
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Nice, Steven...have been captivated by the Tibetan sand mandalas today...enjoyed your mandala with Ade the other day too, Pila :)
Pila Mulligan: thanks, me too
Pila Mulligan: Pema, what does modern science say about space and time, if there is a quick answer -- are they seen as a dependent co-arising?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pema Pera: hmmmmm
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pema Pera: no quick answer :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pila Mulligan: nice compact question, eh
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the short answer...grins
Pila Mulligan: astrophysical prattyasamutpda
Pema Pera: dependent arising is a few hundred years ahead of modern science, I'm afraid
Pema Pera: we've had a few centuries of object-oriented science
Eos Amaterasu: what about that Brazilian butterfly?
Pema Pera: so we'll get a few more centuries of respect for object and subject, I expect
Pema Pera: and only after that can we expect co-dependent arising to have a chance
Pema Pera: but it will come
Pila Mulligan: seems to me that at both ends of infinity you'd have to give up time and space
Pila Mulligan: only logical :)
Pema Pera: :)
Pila Mulligan: Brazilian butterfly Eos?
Eos Amaterasu: Ah, re that infamous butterfly wing's beat that sets off chaos storm - is that a way toward codependent origination?
Pila Mulligan: aha
Pila Mulligan: perhaps
Pema Pera: it's a nice metaphor at least
Eliza Madrigal: a reflection?
Pema Pera: everything is connected, and chaos theory shows that in the realm of objects
Pema Pera: and co-dependent arising shows it between objects and subjects
Pema Pera: which is much more far reaching
Pema Pera: but it is nice to see the shadows already in the realms of objects only
Eos Amaterasu: autopoeisis?
Pema Pera: yes, that brings the subject in
Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia mentioned painting leading to stillness, which suggested space...
Eliza Madrigal: Have to be off. Nite everyone :)
Eos Amaterasu: 'nite!
Pema Pera: bye Eliza!
Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza
Pila Mulligan: (was looking up autopoeisis:)
stevenaia Michinaga: me too
Eos Amaterasu: (did I spell it right?)
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopoiesis
Pema Pera: right enough :)
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopoiesis
Eos Amaterasu: re time and space suspending in stillness....
stevenaia Michinaga: I was looking up dependent arising
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pratītyasamutpāda
Eos Amaterasu: I asked old man Dilgo Khyentse, "what is nowness?"
Eos Amaterasu: He said, "the simplicity nature of stillness"
Pema Pera: you talked with Dilgo Khyentse??
Eos Amaterasu: Yes... a while back, part of group audience
Eos Amaterasu: He was kind of space himself
Pema Pera: must be quite a while back . . . .
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eos Amaterasu: 1976
Pila Mulligan: yep, thats a while
Pema Pera: What was he like, in person?
Eos Amaterasu: Hmm, very large person...
Pila Mulligan: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wonderlane/3191095888/in/set-72157612473689530/
Pema Pera: :)
Eos Amaterasu: often would sit in his bed, wearing these pants, not top, that made him look like Obelix
Eos Amaterasu: (Asterix & Obelix)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: no stone on his back?
Eos Amaterasu: he he, just space inside and out
Pema Pera: you're lucky to have met him . . . . .
Eos Amaterasu: yes, I was/am lucky
Pema Pera: where was that, in 1976?
Eos Amaterasu: "Mr Universe"
Eos Amaterasu: That was in Berkeley, CA. He did a US visit on the invitation of Chögyam Trungpa (he was one of CT's main teachers)
Pema Pera: at the Nyingma Institute of Tarthang Tulku?
Eos Amaterasu: I saw him again a few years later, at Karme-Chöling
Eos Amaterasu: No, in Berkeley as part of Dharmadhatu there, actually part of alonger series of events (including Dudjom Rinpoche)
Pema Pera: wow, Dudjom!!!!
Pema Pera: you're even luckier than I thought :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, I guess I am - and my admiration for those people has only grown.
Pema Pera: Play as Being will have a RL retreat in August, in a place run by a student of Dudjom Rinpoche
Pema Pera: his presence there is palpable . . . .
Pema Pera: very auspicious
Eos Amaterasu: Who is that?
Pema Pera: Tharchin Rinpoche
Pema Pera: Pema Osel Ling is the place, near Santa Cruz
Pila Mulligan: and you are welcome to attend,Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Thank you!
Pila Mulligan says without hesitating :)
Pema Pera: :)
Eos Amaterasu: I find play as being very exciting, just discovered it
Pila Mulligan: Pema is something of a renegade among uber-sceince
Pema Pera: we're glad to have you here, Eos
Pema Pera: have you looked at our web site?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, not all of it
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera: that would take you a month full time!
Pema Pera: may I ask, is your main practice Nyingma?
Eos Amaterasu: I'm a student of Chögyam Trungpa, and the practice he passed on is Rimé (Kagyu-Nyingma)
Pema Pera: there are many parallels
Pila Mulligan: and I guessed that :)
Eos Amaterasu: plus the teachings on Shambhala (which actually close to Kami, etc)
Pema Pera: the first Tibetan I ever met was the 16th Karmapa, back in 1980
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: I was in Ann Arbor as a graduate student
Pema Pera: knew next to nothing about Tibetan Buddhism
Pema Pera: was lucky :-)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Pema Pera: well, RL calling
Pema Pera: bye for now!
Pila Mulligan: bye Pema
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema
Eos Amaterasu: bye pema
Pila Mulligan: something about your presence just signaled Chogyam Trungpa to me, Eos -- not sure what -- do you mind if I ask where you are in rl now?
Eos Amaterasu: I'm in Nova Scotia
Pila Mulligan: ahh, nice
Pila Mulligan: It may have been several friends also following Chogyam Trungpa that gave the feeling
Eos Amaterasu: He like to play with stillness, energy, being, space, color, crispness....
Pila Mulligan: personally, I'm intimidated by the intellectual power of Buddhists :)
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Eos Amaterasu: lots of very sophisticated stuff in buddhism
Pila Mulligan: I'll say
Eos Amaterasu: I came to it from/after phenomenology
stevenaia Michinaga: nice when you have centuries to think about things
Pila Mulligan: well, there you are also in Pema's heartspace
Pila Mulligan: yes, Steve :)
Eos Amaterasu: we're lucky to have benefit of all the world's culture - unique
Pila Mulligan: Pema's doing a Friday workshop at Kira Cafe on phenomenology
Pila Mulligan: maybe you have seen their logs
Eos Amaterasu: I haven't seen the logs yet, but was tickled to find a phenomenologist in SL
Eos Amaterasu: (weird fetish of mine)
Pila Mulligan: he had an interesting debate a few months ago there with a philosopher of a different orientation
Pila Mulligan: there were several parts -- all posted
Pila Mulligan: I live in Hawai`i, and phenomena are normal here :)
Pila Mulligan: kira-phenomenology-workshop@googlegroups.com
Pila Mulligan: that is their working thread n the workshop
Eos Amaterasu: hmm, copy/paste doesn't' seem to work from chat window...
Pila Mulligan: http://kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=84&Itemid=114 this has transcripts
Pila Mulligan: I think you need to access the group of that name via Google
Pila Mulligan: the first one -- it is just an email address
stevenaia Michinaga: they should be available w/o an invitation, just can;t post to them
Eos Amaterasu: got that, thanks, link worked
Pila Mulligan: http://groups.google.com/group/kira-phenomenology-workshop
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, a pleasure meeting you Eos
stevenaia Michinaga: night Pila
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, this was great!
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks, and I need to go to bed!
Eos Amaterasu: in rl
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
Pila Mulligan: bye Eos
Eos Amaterasu: Thanks Pila and Steve
Pila Mulligan: see you next time