2009.04.17 07:00 - Projection screen saving

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    The Guardian for this meeting was quen Oh. The comments are by quen Oh.

    quen Oh: hi Pema!
    Pema Pera: dag Quen!
    Pema Pera: Goeiemidag!
    quen Oh: hi Sophia
    quen Oh: nice to see you again!'
    Pema Pera: Hi Sophia!
    Pema Pera: How are you, Sophia?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: really good, how are you?
    Pema Pera: glad to hear that!
    Pema Pera: I'm still a bit sleepy -- it's 7 am here
    Pema Pera: I'm in SLT land :)
    quen Oh: gosh hehe, that is early indeed
    quen Oh: well, hope everyone will excuse me, I have to tend to a little emergency at MICA, will be back asap
    Pema Pera: okay, good luck, Quen!
    Left the discussion for a while...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: you seem to be very busy Pema, how do you make time for PaB? :)
    Pema Pera: haha, yes, good question!
    Pema Pera: somehow I'm trying to weave it in with my other activities
    SophiaSharon Larnia: weave is a good word for it
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I loved your email, I want to forward it to other people, those not in SL :)
    Pema Pera: oh, feel free to do so
    SophiaSharon Larnia: HI Eos
    Pema Pera: but an email like this is fine, to forward
    Pema Pera: We do not put all the email of the group on our web site
    Pema Pera: (my sentences came out out of order)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    Pema Pera: (slow connection today)
    Pema Pera: Hi Eos and hi Eliza!
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Morning everyone :)
    Eos Amaterasu: G'morn!
    Pema Pera: Eos, thank you for your comment on my lengthy email, yesterday (hope my email itself was not too long)
    Eos Amaterasu: Playing at play :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: sometimes when you want to express ideas that seem really simple, it can take some time . . . .
    When I came back Eos and Eliza had joined.
    Pema Pera: wb Quen!
    Eliza Madrigal: quen, Hello :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Quen
    Eos Amaterasu: Hi Quen!
    quen Oh: `hi all
    Eos Amaterasu: highlighting all the details that triangulate a still point
    Pema Pera: yes, and trying to apply it to daily life
    Eos Amaterasu: altho the still point isn't just still, it's in play :-)
    quen Oh: the more simple the more difficult to express, as you want to express it simple to do it justice?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Stillness In Play...nice
    Pema Pera: yes, and the daily life prescription is so simple too: just be with all that presents itself . . . .
    Eos Amaterasu: from the 1% to the 99%?
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: for me, the idea of "no gain", of not reaching, not trying to "get" anything out of a situation is something that I'm still learning . . . . .
    quen Oh: not always so simple, as a busy mind sometimes tends to add dozens of things too
    SophiaSharon Larnia: really Pema?
    Pema Pera: each time I think "aha, of course, I get it" I see myself indeed getting it more
    Pema Pera: but then a bit later I see subtle ways in which I was still trying to reach
    SophiaSharon Larnia: I meant I have never consider just not reaching I feel that I do that all of the time
    SophiaSharon Larnia considers
    Pema Pera: of course, in daily life, if you want to switch on a light, you have to reach for the light switch :)
    Pema Pera: but if you are with a friend, say, the best way to be with someone is not to expect anything, but just to be together
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
    Eliza Madrigal nods...just notice and listen
    Eos Amaterasu: and finding that in activities, like lighting/dimming light
    Pema Pera: yes!
    Eos Amaterasu: another form of attending?
    Pema Pera: doing by not-doing, wu-wei, which we've often spoken about here
    Pema Pera: yes, attending, not accumulating
    Eliza Madrigal: For me, it isn't reaching brain...maybe teaching brain...like I'm wanting to encapsulate into some sort of easily transferable thing...and have to pull mysef away from that mindset. Just enjoy. :)
    quen Oh: it is difficult not to expect things, even if not for yourself, unconsciously you do, otherwise you wouldn't be surprised anaymore with things...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: to just be
    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
    quen Oh: perhaps it is the conditional expecting, where you feel disappointed when expectations are not met
    Pema Pera: reaching out is typically done to add something, to add something to what we have. To see what we are, we have to drop something, to subtract, yes, to learn to just be -- in the middle of activities too
    quen Oh: how would you learn that?
    Pema Pera: by stopping frequently, for example :-)
    Eos Amaterasu: and then you're caught in the act, so to speack :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: when one is a portal, everyting is a portal
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: or any path of exploration, spiritual, philosophical, . . . depending on your temperament and background
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza
    Pema Pera: and yes, conditional expecting narrows our seeing and being in a situation
    Pema Pera: caught in the act, nice wait of expressing it!
    quen Oh: can also make you question the purpose and sense in the activities around you or worse where you are involved... so you have to motivate yourself to participate again
    Eos Amaterasu: at the same time this isn't "quietism", I think there can be a kind of expectation that is more like pregnancy, allowing to give rise to something
    Eliza Madrigal: great point I think Eos
    quen Oh: would that be hope Eos?
    Pema Pera: yes, that is so hard to emphasize, that aspect of allowing
    quen Oh: or open, unconditional expectation?
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, yes, we were taling about that a few PaB's ago
    Pema Pera: (PaB bell)
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: hard to drop when in a very busy environment, when I have managed to do that, it feels like being in 2 places at once, for an instant..
    Pema Pera: yes, Eos, what did you conclude?
    Pema Pera: great, Sophia!!
    Pema Pera: hovering...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, but almost ;ike being in a ball
    Eos Amaterasu: which is the real place you're coming from?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: everywhere :)
    Pema Pera: asking that question can give a strong physical change in awareness!
    Pema Pera: and help you to drop all kinds of identifications
    Pema Pera: how did you discuss it?
    Eos Amaterasu: Hope? Whether there was kind of a non-greedy hope...
    Eos Amaterasu: I think Aurel Miles brought it up
    Eliza Madrigal: During painful transitions, or awful "in between" clarity sorts of moments, I try to remind myself that it is just "sitting on an egg"..."slow down, you can't make anything happen and don't want it to before its time." :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Eliza, it is easy to want to grab a jackhammer
    Eliza Madrigal: haha...seems to help :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: During transition when I had my children, I wanted to get up and leave right in the middle "Okay..changed my mind" :)
    Eos Amaterasu: Sitting on an egg.... being in a ball?
    SophiaSharon Larnia: aww yes that is stressful
    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
    quen Oh: remembers an architect, Aldo van Eyck, who called the 'inbetween' something to try to get, as the fragile balance between opposed things like big and small, one and many, public and private , permanence and change, and so on
    Eliza Madrigal: brb
    Pema Pera: thank you, Eliza, that's a beautiful description
    SophiaSharon Larnia: we reach for that place but can't live there, at least I can't
    quen Oh: interesting to call it inbetween Eliza
    Pema Pera: but when it comes, we can try to just be there . . . . even when it's hard
    Pema Pera: allowing . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: we can all be each other's midwives :)
    Pema Pera: talking about transitions: I have to leave my hotel now, off to the airport -- flying back to New York City later this morning
    SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema. Travel well :)
    Pema makes a nice salto before he leaves!
    quen Oh: nice gymnastics Pema!
    Eos Amaterasu: Bye!
    Eliza Madrigal: got style
    Eos Amaterasu: Ha ha!
    quen Oh: have a nice flight Pema!
    Pema Pera: yes, Eliza, very Socratic that, too :-)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema :)
    Pema Pera: see y'all soon again!
    quen Oh: see you soon Pema!
    Eliza Madrigal: quen...just read what you wrote about the architect...
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Ive been trying to 'stop' before I go to sleep, to see if it makes any difference
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, that is what it is...the gap between those glimpses of presence and daily life closing...and everything opening, as it were
    quen Oh: even the idea to take distance and contemplate to "leave right in the middle "Okay..changed my mind" can be useful and freeing, isn't it Eliza?
    Eos Amaterasu: double take
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Well...at the time, during labor, is hard. It feels like you aren't going to be able to stick it out...want to escape it. :)
    quen Oh: it is a very short description of his theories, but I understood it is about trying to balance opposed phenomena, as the are part of one, and to relate to them in a balanced and good way
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...nice.
    quen Oh: (they* are part of)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: have to go have a great day everyone :))
    quen Oh: but even the mental picture of escape, which in reality is not an option seems helpful
    quen Oh: bye Sophia
    Eos Amaterasu: Ciao!
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia, yes, it makes perfect sense...good way to enter dreams
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia :)
    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye :))
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm still turning over the illusion of the illusion idea...don't know if it has dawned quite yet
    Eos Amaterasu: I think there's some kind of play between seeing as illusory, permeated by space
    Eos Amaterasu: and who is seeing that.... that who also being permeated by space
    Eos Amaterasu: who's zoomin' who
    Eliza Madrigal: !!
    Eliza Madrigal: The portal analogy works well there too then, hah
    Eliza Madrigal: We as a portal for Being
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, nice!
    Eos Amaterasu: there's that forest clearing quality
    Eos Amaterasu: people often have these experiences entering forest clearings
    Eliza Madrigal: go on?
    Eos Amaterasu: still and full, suddenly empty but rich in that stillness

    The portal analogy initiated some thinking here: are things passing through us? And what about the difficulty to express Pema was talking about earlier? We can experience and think so much, but to think we need 'forms' which we constantly inaptly (re)create... We are perhaps imperfect projection screens... Too often mistake the projection for reality... And to describe and express what you see on your inner projection screen in a precise way seems even more difficult. Isn't 'expecting' or 'reaching' also not some form of projecting your own ideas?

    quen Oh: or we as a (limited) projection screen for Being?
    Eos Amaterasu: Albert Hoffman had that as a kid, several times
    Eliza Madrigal: "Alive vastness"
    Eos Amaterasu: Ah, another viewpoint, yes Quen
    Eliza Madrigal: And the details becomming more and more illuminated
    Eliza Madrigal: Finer
    Eos Amaterasu: that vastness could be visible in every detail of your life, your house....
    quen Oh: or we project it distorted, diffuse, vague...
    Eos Amaterasu: we lose it, we panic
    Eos Amaterasu: that little gap can be panicky
    Eliza Madrigal: we "change our minds" and turn away...yes
    quen Oh: some things can be burnt in too much, as we have no screensaver, so they shine through other things constantly
    Eos Amaterasu: lose our most basic mind
    Eos Amaterasu: yes, perhaps it's a good thing that "nothing lasts"
    Eliza Madrigal: quen, neat analogy....very uncomfortable
    quen Oh: ;-) maybe the PaB is like putting on the screensaver now and then?
    Eliza Madrigal: Soothing the eyes
    quen Oh: well in any projection you loose a lot..
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah quen, yes...the substance gets lost...steps removed
    quen Oh: how real a projection screen can make things appear, they are clearly not the real thing, even though in a very good movie we seem to forget ;-)
    Eos Amaterasu: the play's the thing....
    Eliza Madrigal: Easy to get lost there...so the stops are like cool water splashed to wake up
    Eos Amaterasu: yes.... maybe "Earth Hour" is or could be something like that
    quen Oh: ? Earth Hour
    Eos Amaterasu: Happened a few weeks ago, stop energy for one hour
    Eliza Madrigal: My meditation practices have changed a bit since I started really paying attention to the 15 minutes on a consistent basis. When I sit, intending for at least 30 minutes, I seem to emerge from it after 15 minutes...mid-way. At first this bothered me but I realized I'm just as "refreshed"
    Eos Amaterasu: Hmm
    Eos Amaterasu: I will try to actually do this, every 15 min; kind of complements what I already do, and "refreshes" it
    Eliza Madrigal: So I still sit 30, but like clockwork I have an outward dip in the middle.
    Eos Amaterasu: I have to go back to RL.... the 9 secs will continue tho
    Eos Amaterasu: Thnk you Quen and Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Eos. :) Nice to talk with you this morning
    Eliza Madrigal: quen, do you meditate as a practice outside of PaB?
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh...away. :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Have to go quen! Talk soon :)
    quen Oh: bye Eliza!
    quen Oh: bye Eos!
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