2009.04.19 13:00 - Of time and dreams

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

This session became a theme session, beginning with Time and Dreams but as the discussion demonstrates, it became more about dreams and meaning, dreams and reality.  The degree of interest and variation of experience and expression suggested that this topic, or group of topics warranted at least an additional discussion time; so this theme cluster will be discussed next week as well.  For now, I leave the chatlog as recorded and will return as I have time for editing or further comment. 

Riddle Sideways: Hi Maxine
Maxine Walden: hi, Riddle, liked your little entry dancd
Maxine Walden: dance
Riddle Sideways: was trying to stop dancing
Riddle Sideways: was at the art talk / gallery
Maxine Walden: oh, got the wrong perspective...oh, how was the art talk, sorry I could not make it
Riddle Sideways: hmmm orange or yellow level has a dance in the green grass place
Riddle Sideways: I was doing the rudest of dances
Riddle Sideways: could not stop
Maxine Walden: ah...captured by the dance?
Riddle Sideways: many times the dance takes us over
Maxine Walden: yes, sometimes we are just overtaken by things...
Riddle Sideways: hi Pila
Maxine Walden: hi, Pial
Maxine Walden: Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Maxine and Riddle
Maxine Walden: Riddle, what is the 'this' in your bubble?
Pila Mulligan: hi Wester
Maxine Walden: hi, Wester
Wester Kiranov: hi all
Riddle Sideways: I am "this" riddle
Maxine Walden: oh, thanks...
Riddle Sideways: sorry, I is simply more descriptive of what I am currently
Riddle Sideways: that still did not make sence
Riddle Sideways: but mostly I don't either
Maxine Walden: np, Riddle...
Riddle Sideways: At one point I studied japanese carpentry
Riddle Sideways: and building
Pila Mulligan: elegant skills
Maxine Walden: ah...
Riddle Sideways: there is usually some piece not finished
Pila Mulligan: :)
Riddle Sideways: it is left to the observer
Riddle Sideways: to finish
Maxine Walden: that is an elegant statement
Pila Mulligan: I've heard something similar of the Zen Garden
Riddle Sideways: Riddle, is a work in progress
Riddle Sideways: that you may finish if you wish
Maxine Walden: perhaps we all are works in progress...
Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
Maxine Walden: and Wol, hi there
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Maxine, Pila, everyone
Wester Kiranov: hi wol, eliza
Pila Mulligan: hi Wol and Fonz
Wol Euler: hello wester, maxine, pila
Maxine Walden: Fefonz, hi
Wol Euler: hello fefonz
Fefonz Quan: Hello wekend Pabers
Wester Kiranov: hi fef
Riddle Sideways: hard to keep up, so Hi Everybody
Maxine Walden: Eliza and I spoke earlier the week about making this session a theme session, regarding Time and/in Dreams...is that of interest ?
Pila Mulligan: yes!
Wol Euler nods
Fefonz Quan: sure
Wester Kiranov: yes
Eliza Madrigal: Bertrum should be here today...had been his idea orginally
Maxine Walden: yes, thanks, Eliza, I was wondering if he would be coming
Eliza Madrigal: He said that he would...of course things come up :)
Riddle Sideways: can you explain the "and/in" ?
Eliza Madrigal: Either way..interesting topic!
Maxine Walden: maybe we can gather some thoughts ...
Pila Mulligan: I hope we can address the topic of prescient dreams
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve
Wol Euler: hello steve
Maxine Walden: 'and/in' merely to suggest the links of Time and Dreams as well as Time in Dreams...
Maxine Walden: hi, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: ...smiles
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Steven, Sophia
Riddle Sideways: ok
Maxine Walden: hi, sophia
Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
Eliza Madrigal: Here comes Bert! :)
sophia Placebo: hi pila
Maxine Walden: Imagine we all have our experience of time in our dreams and it would be good to gather our thoughts; ah...will wait til Bert is here fully
Pila Mulligan: hi Bert
Maxine Walden: hi, Bertrum, glad you could make it.
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Bertrum
Wol Euler: hello bertrum
Bertrum Quan: hi everyone. sorry I'm late
Maxine Walden: we were just beginning to think about time and dreams, time in dreams...something you had expressed interest in
Bertrum Quan: Yes, I think dreams provide important clues as to the understanding "reality"
Pila Mulligan: hi Scathach
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello all:)
Maxine Walden: maybe we could each share our own experience; in my own experience of the dream, re time, there is the sense of an ever-present 'now' but also the dream as remembered has a sense of linearity...but in the moment of the dream, everything seems to be a 'now'
Maxine Walden: and it is only in recalling the dream that it seems to have sequence and flow
Maxine Walden: what are others' experience?
Pila Mulligan: my dreams have a fairly ordinary variety of time, in terms of sequence and flow
Wol Euler: now that you ask, the narrative jumps around a lot. I think "why did that happen?" and then the dream goes back a step to supply the backstory
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: I often wonder when I hear something that I think is in non-dream reality that the dream has been scripted to include that heard sound insantainiously but is remembered in "normal time
Wester Kiranov: I was thinking maybe it has something to do with not having steady reference points in space. Because in a dream you think it's normal time, but at the same time things change
Wester Kiranov: more than normal
Fefonz Quan: totally sequential for me, some jump sometimes
Maxine Walden: different experiences...but maybe some common threads?
Riddle Sideways: not sure... maybe 50% things is dream seem to be normal time lengths
Pila Mulligan: we may be assuming we all expereince waking (non-sleeping) time the same, but in fact we may not
Wol Euler: heh
Riddle Sideways: and 50% jumping , slowing, speeding
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, good point
sophia Placebo: never come to my mind to pay attention to time in dream > still processing and remmbering her dreams
stevenaia Michinaga: is there any way to gage how long a dream takes (if measured ) vs how long the dream appears to last in dream time?
Bertrum Quan: I that that dreams and memory are inherently non-linear.
Eliza Madrigal: Supposedly very short...like a flash can seem to last hours. That's what I've heard anyway.
Maxine Walden: think some research has been done re the 'real time' for dreams, and that dreams are not as instantaneous as we may have thought...what have others heard?
Fefonz Quan: for me it is very similar to movie time. so during each scene time is linear, but then moving to another scene can be jumping forward or backward
Wol Euler nods to Fefonz
Eliza Madrigal: Fef, yes I relate to that too
Wester Kiranov: but then when do the scenes change?
Riddle Sideways: though there is a preceiption of a long time length
Fefonz Quan: i have heard that surely the time in a dream is faster than RL, stil it is not instantaneus at all.
Bertrum Quan: But in movies the senseof time is often anillusion within an illusion. As soon as you make an edit you have altered linearity
Wol Euler: I gather from daydreams and drowsy sleeping that quite a long dream fits into a few minutes of RL time
Wol Euler: (for me)
Scathach Rhiadra nods at Wol
Fefonz Quan: well bertrum, in most movie scene i reacall time seems to be quite normal
Eliza Madrigal: I've had consecute dreams....diff days, diff chapters of same dream. That is rare though.
Maxine Walden: complex dream thoughts in a short time, perhaps?
Fefonz Quan nods at Wol too
Eliza Madrigal: *consecutive dreams...those were more like movie time
Bertrum Quan: This is certainly relative in both dreams and in movies.
Eliza Madrigal: So diff sorts of dreams prob. use time differently
Maxine Walden: yes, following on from Wol's comment, I have often noticed that what seems like a very complex series of daydream thoughts takes only a couple/few seconds
Bertrum Quan: I my excperience at least it is the attempot to make sense and to remember that often proves some sense of linear time
sophia Placebo: me too eliza re cosecutive dreams
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: and then there is the 'recalling' of the dream which may order or alter it...as Bert is just saying
Bertrum Quan: *not proves--provides a sense of linear time
Wol Euler: oh yes, they change in the telling :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes...more and more detail when telling or writing out
Fefonz Quan: i strongly 'disagree' with bertum's notion, but that is from my experience only
Riddle Sideways: and skippin too
Maxine Walden: what about the consecutive dreams: representing ongoing thoughts/concerns being worked over in mind?
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think so
Wester Kiranov: I think when you're in the dream you often feel time is "normal", only afterwards you notice things were strange.
sophia Placebo: well re maxine : thinking of eating a pie is faster than really eating it i guess
Fefonz Quan: /nods to wester
Eliza Madrigal: :D...true
Maxine Walden: oh, yes, in the dream things at the moment make very great sense...
Maxine Walden: the reality of the dreamer seems to differ from the recaller of the dream?
Maxine Walden: differ from the reality of the recaller?
Wester Kiranov: that is a nice way of saying things
sophia Placebo: cosecutive dreams for me are novels and normal dreams are short stories :) real life cocerns dreams are those of going to exam unprepared kind and never in consecutive manner
Pila Mulligan: has anyone else had dreams of real life events that happen after the dream?
stevenaia Michinaga: like dreaming of tomarrow's stock market closings. Pila?
Wol Euler: :)
Bertrum Quan: The reality of dream and the reality of RL are in a sense one in the same---and in their difference there may be important clues of the the illusion of reality.
Riddle Sideways: like deja vu, I all of asudden know that I had dreamed this moment
Maxine Walden: care to say more Bert?
Fefonz Quan: sure Pila, i had occasions , like big tests or things like that, that when happened in RL where the 3rd time for me... though the dream surely didn't predict the real life experience
Wol Euler: hello adams
Wester Kiranov: hi adams
Eliza Madrigal: Hey Adams! :)
Fefonz Quan: heyadams
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adams
sophia Placebo: hi adams
Maxine Walden: hi, Adams, welcome.
Riddle Sideways: like dreaming that adams would be here :)
Adams Rubble tries to sneak in quietly and whispers Hello Everyone :)
Bertrum Quan: From what I've read and experiecned, one does not remember nevery moment of a night's sleep. What we do remember may or may not seem linear.
Riddle Sideways: seems the same for RL
Wol Euler: :)
Fefonz Quan: i've read that the dreams we remember are those that happened before we woke up
Bertrum Quan: Dreams also may seem "real" and it is in RL that we decide that they are an "illusion."
Wester Kiranov: agrees with fefonz
Fefonz Quan: sure, it is hard to say if the dream is real while in it
Riddle Sideways: have that feeling a lot Bert
Wol Euler: some remembered dreams are as "real" and resonant and significant emotionally, as memories of waking experienes
Eliza Madrigal: absolutely
Fefonz Quan nods to wol
Wol Euler: I find it hard to tell sometimes the difference between a memory of a dream and a memory of na experience
Wester Kiranov: isnt this like when we discussed if reality was fiction?
Bertrum Quan: But as we explore the function of time in dreams and time in real life, the emotions may be real... but that does does not make them linear...
Wester Kiranov: some fiction is more meaningful than RL
Wol Euler: yes!
Fefonz Quan: i find that too, but mainly after the memory of the real experience fades after a long time
Wester Kiranov: some dreams may be more meaningful than RL
Wester Kiranov: that's why we often take such pains to decode them
Bertrum Quan: Is it possible that dream and RL or on in the same? Some meaningful and some not...
stevenaia Michinaga: decode? interperate?
Wester Kiranov: interpretate is better
Fefonz Quan: (fefonz sometimes mostly take much pain in order to survive them ;-))
Eliza Madrigal: Pila, I saw my oldest daughter's eyes before she was born...but only realized it after she was born...that was a moment when RL/DL/everything seemed to *meet up* ..very much a deja vu...but I can analyze myself out of it if I try.."Oh, wild pregnancy hormones" haha
Wol Euler: wow
sophia Placebo: i once watched a kids show -anime- where one charachter knew she was in a dream , the other night i dreamt a dream in which i knew i was dreaming , never happened again:)
Pila Mulligan: :) ELiza
Wester Kiranov: i once had a dream where i recognized the situation as a typical dream situation, but still did not recognize I was dreaming
Bertrum Quan: The reality of dream and RL reside in the mind. They exist in that world as one.
Riddle Sideways: yes
Fefonz Quan: for me many sometimes i do understand that the situation is a dream, hence i am in one.
Eliza Madrigal: and with attention we weave them together?
Pila Mulligan: if I understand Bert correctly, I agree that waking memories and memories of dreams exist simply as events in our experience, but our mind arranges them as linear of sequential events, if it can
Pila Mulligan: in some cases it seems unreasonable to the mind, though, if the dream event relates to a waking event that happens later in sequence
Fefonz Quan: i am not sure the dream and RL exist on similar level, bertum
Maxine Walden: Very interesting thoughts about the 'reality' of RL and dreams...
Maxine Walden: with some variation according to individual experience
Wol Euler: does anyone else dream in SL, in their av bodies with the SL tools and habits?
Adams Rubble: yes Wol
Fefonz Quan: Pilla, i thought the linearity of deam time can e observed without reference to rl events
Eliza Madrigal nods
Wester Kiranov: not yet ;)
Scathach Rhiadra: yes Wol, sometimes:)
Wester Kiranov: agree wit fef again
Pila Mulligan: that too, Fefonz -- but Bert may have addressed a different idea of linearity
Fefonz Quan: nope (to Wol)
Adams Rubble: I often dream I am in PaB sessions when some insight is about to hit
Wol Euler: :)
Fefonz Quan: but pila, i don't find any reason for the dream events to be before/after rl events.
Pila Mulligan: well, Fefonz, let's say there is a dream in January 2009 and then a quite similar real life event happens in February 2009 -- such that they seem related :)
Scathach Rhiadra: maybe the conditions for the event in Feb were already in the subconscious in January
Fefonz Quan: well, future prediction is another thing :)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Bertrum Quan: We often look atr the content of dreams for meaning and interpretation. But for our discussion, we are looking at a different aspect...
Pila Mulligan: that's what I meant by prescient dreaming earlier -- future prediction dreams
Bertrum Quan: We vare looking at the th whole of "experience" of life whether on dream or RL --to expand our sense of reality.
Pila Mulligan: yes, Bert, and dreams and waking moments contributre events to that expereince
Maxine Walden: And perhaps we are eagerly sharing our varied experience re dreams and RL or even SL so that right now we are getting a sense of what each of us thinks, and how we differ
Adams Rubble nods
Eliza Madrigal thinks she is half dreaming all the time, so her stories should be "bracketed" hehe
Adams Rubble: My dreams have reminded me of thinngs long forgotten
Maxine Walden: We began with Time and Dreams, but are really exploring lots of aspects of the dreaming experience
Maxine Walden: yes, dreams do seem to touch something deep inside of us a lot...long agos and longings as well
Bertrum Quan: The whole idea of waking moments --awakening--is key as well
Fefonz Quan: maybe for me the dream is more 'narrative-based' than 'time-baesd', so if the narrative demands it, the dream time can jump forward and backward. In fact, the dream is not even 'space-based', since many times i jump to diifferent places in side the dream world if the narrative demands it
stevenaia Michinaga: must go, RL calling
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
Adams Rubble: byes teve
Wester Kiranov: i like that idea fef
Maxine Walden: bye steve
Fefonz Quan: bye steve
Wester Kiranov: bye steve
Bertrum Quan: bey Steve
Eliza Madrigal: Noticing, Bertrum? Appreciating brings out the substance of both RL and DL.
Maxine Walden: very interesting, fef...all our contributions are so interesting...do we wish to continue this discussion next Sunday 1300? Or other thoughts?
Pila Mulligan: sure
Wol Euler: yes, that would be fine
Wester Kiranov: I would like to continue next week - we've only skimmed the surface so far
Maxine Walden: we could have a kind of theme which of course could evolve...
Fefonz Quan might be away next week, but anyhow that sound like a good idea.
Maxine Walden: but as you say, Wester, we have only begun the scratch the surface
Eliza Madrigal: Bertrum, can you make it next week?
Wester Kiranov: have to go now, RL calling
Fefonz Quan: I think that Bertrum pointed to something very intruiging - waking up from a dream is like a practice of the mind in waking up into a whole different reality. and it is amasing how we manage to do it every morning in just a few seconds
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wester
Wol Euler: bye wester
Adams Rubble: bye Wester
Wester Kiranov: bye all.
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Wester
Eliza Madrigal: Fef, yes!
Fefonz Quan: bye wester
Pila Mulligan: bye Wester
Maxine Walden: For any who cannot make next Sunday there is a dream workshop Tuesdays 1400 where some of these themes could also be discussed
Maxine Walden: bye Wester
Maxine Walden: yes, interesting points Bert and fef re the waking experience
Bertrum Quan: Thanks, Maxine
Maxine Walden: I have a 1400 meeting to go to in a moment but have to say that this hour went by so rapidly!! The notion of attentive experience and time is another interesting thing...
Wol Euler: :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Maxine Walden: such interesting topics and time flies!
Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine, thanks
Wol Euler: bye maxine, thank you
Maxine Walden: bye all see you next week
Fefonz Quan: time flies when you're having fun :)
sophia Placebo: thank you maxine
Fefonz Quan: and fruit flies like apples ;-)
Wol Euler wonders how old that joke really is ...
Scathach Rhiadra: bye heehee
Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
sophia Placebo: bye scath
Pila Mulligan: bye Scathach
Scathach Rhiadra: that didn't come oput as I expected:)
Fefonz Quan: bye scath
Scathach Rhiadra: laughing at Fefonz, bye was for maxine!
Pila Mulligan: an unexpected bye :)
Wol Euler: heheh
Eliza Madrigal wonders if Scath is still dizzy from the maze, tooo
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, possibly
Fefonz Quan: maze?
Wol Euler: I was thinking earlier about hte question of prediciton in dreams, if it is reasonable to think that dreams might predict RL
sophia Placebo: in an art gallery
Pila Mulligan: it may not be reasonable but it happens , Wol :)
Wol Euler: because the logic of dreams can be totally twisted... why would their "prediction" not be the same?
Eliza Madrigal: It may just be one element which shows up...
Wol Euler: (I'm not denying it, I am wondering about the content though)
Fefonz Quan: not the same in what sense wol?
Pila Mulligan: yes, and this is a time related wonder :)
Scathach Rhiadra: could be coincidence, maybe?
Wol Euler: why would the dreamed predictive content not be totally illogical?
Wol Euler: is that perhaps someting special to predictive dreams, that they are excpmt from illogic?
Fefonz Quan: why illogical? te other happenings in the dreams are many times logical
Pila Mulligan: it probably is an illogical conicdence, but it happens
Pila Mulligan: they may be exempt from time :)
Pila Mulligan: or have a hall pass or something
Eliza Madrigal: Waking life can feel like re-reading something you've read before. I've heard many people talk about that
Wol Euler: (maybe predictive dreams are qualitatively different, is what I wanted to say)
Fefonz Quan: i had thousands of dreams i guess, very few predicted successfuly the future, if any
Eliza Madrigal: and I'd concur...so I wonder how much we experience in sleep we don't call or remember as a "dream"
Wol Euler: what made me think this was remembering a fragment of a dream while you were talking about prediction
Adams Rubble: wow, as Maxine said, so many interesting thoughts :)
Wol Euler: I dreamed that my sister's black Lab dog was a red-haired green-eyed girl
Wol Euler: but at the same time it/she was defnintely a black dog.
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm...Like accessing a different sort of reasoning place where we work things out or see differently
Fefonz Quan: yes, shape-shifting happens a lot in my dreams too.
Pila Mulligan: maybe she is a black dog with an advanced self-image :0
Wol Euler: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Bertrum Quan: Ways of knowing... if time is a construct of trhe Mond---past, present and future, why is it not possible to tap into to future through the dream?
Fefonz Quan: it feels like i dream about the 'sumbolic' person/house place, but the appearance can be veri different frm RL
Bertrum Quan: Mind
sophia Placebo: so what do you predeict wol?
Wol Euler: yes, fef, that is true for me too
Wol Euler: I've never had predictive dreams as such. I have dreamed of solutions to RL problems, which actually worked.
Wol Euler: (well, maybe that is predictive ...)
sophia Placebo: practicaly amazing
Eliza Madrigal nods...sometimes we have to put the "working" part of our minds to the side in order to see a solution
Fefonz Quan: but what i find more intruiging Brt, is that if time is so illusionary, why do we keep it so linear, even in the dream world
Wol Euler nods
Fefonz Quan: i would say time and thoughts are tightly connected
Pila Mulligan: for decades I've had dreams of ordinary, mundane events that were later expereinced in waking life almost verbatim, down to the point where I would be thinking about the next line in the script during the waking event
Adams Rubble: Just a note on the future stuff, maybe we see things in our unconscious that we do not see on the conscious level that allow our unconscious to see something is about to happen but I have not had that experience myself
Bertrum Quan: Linearity is how the mind attempts to process and make sense...
Fefonz Quan: and since we dream our thoughts, time is a natural thre
Fefonz Quan: r
Wol Euler: wow, pila.
Pila Mulligan: it is like deja vu with a dream in the backgroound
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Pila...yes, that re-reading sense....wow...yours must be clear
Fefonz Quan: interesting pila...
Adams Rubble: maybe you ARE following the script :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Fefonz Quan: you should do it with the lottary just once :)
Pila Mulligan: 'all the wrold's a stage ...'
Pila Mulligan: never had that dream, Fefonz
sophia Placebo: linearity is mabe the default option to process but if it failed at some point we shift to other forms of reasoning
Pila Mulligan: yes, sophia, that's my thinking too
Pila Mulligan: the mind is more comfrotable with a rational sequence
Wol Euler nods
sophia Placebo: linear might not be rational at some points
Pila Mulligan: so it seems, and Jung's synchronicity is also a chalenege to linearity in terms of defining what is significant
sophia Placebo: but it is the easiest way and the first to be tried i think
Pila Mulligan: well, we are used t yeaterday, today, tomorrow
Eliza Madrigal: Adams, yes beneath the surface we do seem to experience so much we don't realize...and if one is able to allow the unconscious to be heard. Perhaps that "timeless dimension" becomes more noticeable with practice and care :)
Bertrum Quan: But memory like dream are not inherently lineary... So that suggests to me although we gain a great deal of practical functioning through linear thinking, it is also how we fail to fully awake... there's a trade off!
Eliza Madrigal nods to Bertrum
Bertrum Quan: We actually have to "unlearn" linear thinking to expand our Mind
Scathach Rhiadra nods
sophia Placebo: i wander how the memory is stored and shelfed and recalled from the brain , that may help?
Pila Mulligan: if a year was seen to exist as a single unchanging moment, then the events within that moment would require a very wide window of perception, a kind of timeless perception
Eliza Madrigal: Seems like a capacity that can be nurtured
Bertrum Quan: It would be "vertical" rather than linear... layered...
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: can you say more please Bert?
Bertrum Quan: Time as linear suggest a string of events in sequence. Your idea about a year (or a moment) can be viewed as layers--all creating the whole
Fefonz Quan: i think memeories are not linear, at least not in the chronological sense
Pila Mulligan: it was an image I could pose, but not graps actually, so the layering hepls :)
Pila Mulligan: I agree Fefonz, my memories are just there
Scathach Rhiadra really must leve now, good night everyone, Namasté
Fefonz Quan: bt that seems less interesting
Wol Euler: bye again scath
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, you don't have to go through one memory to get to another
Adams Rubble: bye Scath :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Scath :)
Fefonz Quan: bye scath!
Pila Mulligan: bye Scathach -- for real this time :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Pila Mulligan: I keep wanting a physicist to explain this all in terms of expanding time-space :)
Bertrum Quan: And when we think of images, memories are stored chemically in the Brain... the physical process of electrical impulses and chemicals.
Wol Euler: maybe our brain stores memories in hte way that Chinese idiograms are assembled.
Wol Euler: a bit of red and a hint of the smell of pines and the fingertipfeel of suede, that is the summer with Michael
Wol Euler: when they come together
Pila Mulligan: a collage of pictures :)
Adams Rubble nods
Bertrum Quan: That's a great image!
Wol Euler: a collage that makes a picture
Eliza Madrigal: :) Oh...nice, yes.
Wol Euler: you know, like those composites!
Fefonz Quan: yes, beautiful and also sounds true, Wol
Wol Euler: where people assemble hundreds of snapshots to make a composite large image
Eliza Madrigal: yes, both one image *and* a million depending on perspective
Bertrum Quan: I think we might also view time as a composite...
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pila Mulligan: so the essence of something could be timeless
Fefonz Quan: composite in wat way Bertrum?
Fefonz Quan: what*
Bertrum Quan: Wol's image iof memory is true on a universal scale...
Bertrum Quan: Like the pixels that make up a photographic image... the number pixels of an emotion would be very large and their arrangement would not be linear
Pila Mulligan: small details making a collage
Pila Mulligan: from Aldous Huxley's Book the Doors of Perception: "If the doors of perception were cleansed every thing would appear to man as it is, infinite."
Wol Euler: actually they might be surprisingly few, and the mind fills out the details
Bertrum Quan: The mind wants to make sense in that way Wol, that's true. But can we miss things that way... by filling in the blanks?
Fefonz Quan: Nice quote pila, the original is of William Blake tough, aldus is quoting him
Wol Euler: heh
Pila Mulligan: caveat: Huxley was writing about his experiences with mescaline
Fefonz Quan: Sure we miiss Bertrum, but this is a very usefulo way to store information
Eliza Madrigal: If man could get ahold of the stars, we would arrange them in a perfect line
Wol Euler: :)
Fefonz Quan: the mind doesn't really care about the accuracy of the pixcels, it cares about which side is the tiger jumping on me
Pila Mulligan: I like them scattered abotu, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Me too :) My neighborhood is evidence that perhaps my voice might not measure though :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: linear neighborhoods
Wol Euler: heh
Fefonz Quan: (like fefonz's words has a lot of mistakes, but you get the idea ;-0)
Wol Euler smiles and nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I've got to run. I hope we continue next week...hope that I make it.
Pila Mulligan: bye Eliza
Adams Rubble: Thank you all for a great discussion :)
Wol Euler: bye eliza, take care.
Adams Rubble: bye Eliza
Fefonz Quan: Bye Eliza, have a nice week
Adams Rubble: bye all
Bertrum Quan: Bye Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks so much everyone :) Bye for now
Pila Mulligan: bye Adams
Wol Euler: I should go too. Goodnight all, take care, be happy
Pila Mulligan: bye Wol
Fefonz Quan: goodnight all :)
Pila Mulligan: regarding idea of waking moments, Bert, I have sometimes been aware of the fact that I am dreaming while still in the dream, and in some cases even begin to try integrating the dream into waking life before waking
Pila Mulligan: hi Visitor
Visitor: hi
Visitor: what are you doing?
Pila Mulligan: sitting arounbd chatting
Fefonz Quan will go too, Bye Bertrum, Pilla
Pila Mulligan: bye Fefonz
Pila Mulligan: can you please work up an explanation of expanding space-time for next Sunday Fefonz -- oops, too late:)
Pila Mulligan: there are chat sessions here four times a day Visitor
Pila Mulligan: well, nice topic Bert
Bertrum Quan: Pila, that was an interesting discussion.
Pila Mulligan: I liked your introducing how memory seems to have a sequnce added to it for mental organizaiton
Pila Mulligan: but not an intrinsic sequence
Bertrum Quan: Yes. Logic and linearlity are prized. But they can sometimes lead us to a smaller view...
Pila Mulligan: the rational mind certainly can boast of many accomplishments
Pila Mulligan: but seeing the whole may not be among them
Bertrum Quan: Yes, that may be the paradox.
Pila Mulligan: at least it is no longer reaonable to burn people for believing the world is not flat
Bertrum Quan: Indeed!
Bertrum Quan: I need to return to the mundate chores of the afternoon...
Pila Mulligan: well, have a nice mundane day :)
Bertrum Quan: And you as well...
Pila Mulligan: aloha
Bertrum Quan: Take care.