2009.04.26 07:00 - Conscious and Sensory Awareness

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I arrived first and was soon joined by Eliza and then Wol 

 

Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Adams :)
Adams Rubble: How are you this morning?
Eliza Madrigal: Rather well...a little scattered maybe. You?
Adams Rubble: Oooooh. I am good. Do you want to talk about it at all?
Eliza Madrigal: Not really....think I've been too 'busy' at night...so is taking me while to wake up and feel clear :)
Adams Rubble: I spent some of yesterday in a swamp and was gladd I wasn;t being chased by anything
Adams Rubble: ah
Eliza Madrigal: hahah.... How fun though...lots to See in a swamp
Adams Rubble: yes, that happens
Adams Rubble: yes, it was pretty but the mosquitoes were starting to buzz. Not biting yet
Adams Rubble: It is quite warm here
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: hello adams, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Mosquitos are definitely not easy to live in harmony with sometimes. hahah
Adams Rubble: Nice to see you this afternoon :)
Wol Euler: likewise!
Adams Rubble: no they are not :)

Sophia and two necomers arrived, one named Vendy; the other known as "guest" in this log did not give permission

Adams Rubble: Hello Vendy :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Vendy
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia :)
Adams Rubble: Please feel welcome to join us Vendy :)
Wol Euler: hello sophie, vendy
Adams Rubble: I haven't met you yet Vendy. Have you been here before?
Vendy Walpole: thank you
Vendy Walpole: No
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome Vendy :)
Vendy Walpole: thanks :)
Adams Rubble: Ah Welcome. I will give you a card about Play as Being
guest: it's like africa
Wol Euler: guest?
Vendy Walpole: got it, thx
Adams Rubble: Hello guest
guest: yes
guest: hell
guest: :)
guest: hello
guest: sorry
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Would you like to join us guest
Adams Rubble: We are a play as Being group
guest: sure
guest: thanks
Adams Rubble: We explore the nature of reality
Eliza Madrigal: For the first time this morning, I woke to a message "IMs capped"...didn't realize that could happen
Wol Euler: oh yes ...
sophia Placebo: guest is from china and doing her major about budism
Adams Rubble: That is a card explaining a little about our group
Wol Euler: not often, but if you are offline for a while
Wol Euler: or if you have a store ...
Adams Rubble: Oh nice to meet you lin
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, good to know. Now I won't be so quick to send people IMs offline
Eliza Madrigal: guest, how interesting :)
guest: nice to meet u too
Wol Euler: welcome, guest
lin Anton: :)
lin Anton: thanks
Adams Rubble: We record our conversations in a log which we put on the wen in our Wiki. Do you have objections to that?
Adams Rubble: guest and Vendy
Vendy Walpole: It is ok
Adams Rubble: Thanks
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to discuss?

No one responded to my question to I mentioned what was on my mind. It began an interesting conversation as we all tried to find words to describe our experiences with awareness, consciousness and sensory perception. Fael joined us in the middle. Everyone contributed and it is an interesting conversation. I will present the rest without comment

Adams Rubble: The other night I was reading a little from Bernadotte Roberts who is a Christian nun who has had an experience with "no self"
Wol Euler: guest, my we have your permission to include your name and comments in the published log of this session?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, she is quite interesting
Adams Rubble: And she was making a distinction between seeing the world through our consciousness or self
Adams Rubble: and seeing with our senses only
Adams Rubble: she feels the latter is the one we can not live without
Adams Rubble: I was thinking this is a little like Being seeing
Adams Rubble: the way we would look at ourselves from Being's perspective
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes, can see that.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael
Wol Euler: hello fael
Adams Rubble: Hellpo Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Vendy Walpole: hi
Eliza Madrigal: Bernadete Roberts also makes a distinction between no ego and no self which is quite fascinating
Wol Euler: say more, please?
Fael Illyar: what's the difference between them?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure I could sum up what she means by this actually, but there being a difference between not operating from ego, and dropping 'self'
Eliza Madrigal: That in the former there is stil a central 'point'
Fael Illyar: ah, I can get that.
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
Fael Illyar: Yes, not operating from ego means there is self but it's not directing the action.
Eliza Madrigal: Not 'in control'
Fael Illyar: yes, that fits I think
Eliza Madrigal: Seems to. Adams, can you say more about what you were reading?
Adams Rubble: hehe. I didn't read that much but started thinking about that point
Vendy Walpole: I wonder, if we drop the self, what happens with our spirit, its becoming a part of the universe?
Adams Rubble: Well Bernadotte Roberts thinks it is a mistake to think of our consciousness as being separate from out bodies
Eliza Madrigal: That is what I would think Vendy...it must be a true a state of perceiving no separation
Vendy Walpole: we become part of the oneness?
Vendy Walpole: without self?
Eliza Madrigal: or are completely aware of that being the case
Adams Rubble: We are part of the oneness
Adams Rubble: we just might not always see it
Vendy Walpole: yes, but become aware of it, when we drop self?
Vendy Walpole: just thinking aloud
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe it doesn't even matter if we are aware of it at that point? Like something beyond awareness....which perhaps isn't as needed.
Adams Rubble: yes, we are thinking with you Vendy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Just thinknig as a distinction...because in an less-ego state we should be aware?
Adams Rubble: Along the lines of separating consciousness from ego that Eliza mentioned
Vendy Walpole: yes, agree, in less ego state, we should be aware too
Adams Rubble: It seems a little like Nisargadatta's I AM
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble: awareness seems to imply some lkind of consciousness
Adams Rubble: or does it?
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Radical line of thought in any event
Adams Rubble: words!
Adams Rubble: I think we know awareness when we experience it
Vendy Walpole: I understnd the disctinction in this way, no ego, but still our being is here, but in no self state , we are not aware of our own being
sophia Placebo: im still translating the words in my mind
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm Vendy, yes that's a rather clear summation :)
Vendy Walpole: still trying to make it clearer
Eliza Madrigal: When doing certain mindfulness excercizes...paying close attention to every sensation, sound, etc. .. there is often a hyper-awareness which you tune into which subdues the ego and allows one to feel less separate
Adams Rubble: the senses
Adams Rubble: sensory awareness
Eliza Madrigal: yes
sophia Placebo: i feel awarness is more to things that we can sens them
Vendy Walpole: seems, droping the self is a higher level when awareness is being part of oneness, and egio less state is still able to watch the senses records of one being
Vendy Walpole: ego*
Adams Rubble: I've missed Faenik :)
Eliza Madrigal: You mean aliveness in everything, Sophia?
sophia Placebo: im not sure , the language barrier is big with these terms , i can translate them but cant get out with meaning
sophia Placebo: that is a special distunguish meaning for each one
Adams Rubble: You do well Sophia. I think there is a language barrier even between native English speakers on this
Wol Euler nods
sophia Placebo: but i feel that i apply the ward awarness when i refer to my sensing to things that were around me but didnt sense them , like my clothes over my body
sophia Placebo: in many times im not aware of them but im fully consouce that im waring something
Adams Rubble: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes, because you know you are wearing something you don't have to 'think' about it
Adams Rubble: I think of awareness as oneness, am I wrong about that?
Adams Rubble: as connected to oneness
Vendy Walpole: conciousness is a mind activity to me and nothing more, if I translate this well
Adams Rubble: feeling oneness
Eliza Madrigal: Vendy, so you'd agree that consciousness can't be separated from body
guest: what's the different between awareness and conciousness?
Vendy Walpole: yes, I see that same Adams
Vendy Walpole: yes, agree
Vendy Walpole: its mind activity
Vendy Walpole: awaraness could be spirit activity
Eliza Madrigal: In this context yes, I'd agree also..that awareness is of oneness
Fael Illyar has no idea what you take to be the difference between consciousness and awareness though...
Vendy Walpole: I say it very simply cause my English, not mu first language too
Adams Rubble: caan there be a conscious awareness and a sensory awareness coexisting?
Adams Rubble: do they come together?
Vendy Walpole: this is a difficult question
Eliza Madrigal: thinking
Eliza Madrigal: I think bringing consciousness into sensory...it becomes what seems like a new thing but isn't..is really just...Hm..
Eliza Madrigal: yes, awareness of what is
Fael Illyar: would someone mind explaining to me the difference between awareness and consciousness here?
Vendy Walpole: if awaranes try to see things through senses, it can do it , then it becomes consiousness awaraness
sophia Placebo: lets try this : if you are arrogant but you dont know that your acts are of arrogance , is that loss of awarness or concousness?
Vendy Walpole: loss of awaraness, I think
Vendy Walpole: we can't be arrogant without using the mind
Eliza Madrigal: which maybe you can't get without being more conscious? haha
Fael Illyar: oh, ok, I think I get it now :)
Adams Rubble: yes Vendy!!
Vendy Walpole: :)
Wol Euler: as a practical example: when driving I am aware of hte other cars and do not bump into them, but I am not conscious of them unless they do something unexpected and dangerous and make me think about them
Vendy Walpole: this is a good exmple
Eliza Madrigal: then they 'pop'...yes great example
sophia Placebo: interesting , the contrary to my exaple about clothes
Vendy Walpole: I drive in that way, ussually, whic I do not recommend :)
sophia Placebo: example*
Eliza Madrigal: yes, both work at diff. angles
Adams Rubble: Hmm. Sophia, I thought it was the same :)

After thinking about it, I do not think they are the same

Wol Euler: I think we couldn't drive well in big cities if we were _consciuos_ of every vehicle all the time
Adams Rubble: If we lose awareness of the other cars we may do something stupid
Wol Euler: it's just to much information coming in too fast
Adams Rubble: although it might be the unconscious that is aware of the other cars
Eliza Madrigal: Right, which begs the question of whether 'no self' is a good idea for beings functioning...though less-ego seems to be!
Adams Rubble: Well Bernadotte Roberts didn;t remember to eat when she reached the state of no self
Adams Rubble: (might be good for me for a while)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: The self is a necessary filter then...hahah
Vendy Walpole: yes, she is not aware of her own being then
Vendy Walpole: can understand it
Fael Illyar has sometimes forgot to eat for long periods... although never for longer than one day
Vendy Walpole: probabaly she got alarm awakening from her consiousness
Vendy Walpole: what it was in danger :)
Vendy Walpole: (her being in danger I mean)
Eliza Madrigal: I find this distinction very helpful to the PaB discussions Adams...glad you brought her up
Adams Rubble: All of you have made some very interesting observations
Adams Rubble: I have lots to think about
Wol Euler: agreed, this was a good session
Eliza Madrigal nods
Vendy Walpole: I think it is very useful to think aloud and share thoughts in this way
Adams Rubble: yes
sophia Placebo: i have to leave :) i enjoyed this discussion
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Sophia
Fael Illyar: See you later sophia :)
Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care
Adams Rubble: Take care Sophia. Thank you :)
guest: i have to go too:)
guest: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guest, pleasure to meet you
Adams Rubble: bye guest. Thanks for coming :)
Vendy Walpole: thank you for this opportunity, bye
Wol Euler: and bye Lin, nice meeting you
guest: :)thanks
Fael Illyar: See you later Lin :)
lin Anton: thank you:)
Wol Euler: bye vendy
sophia Placebo: bye all , nice to meet you , see you later
Eliza Madrigal: Vendy, we're here quite often...4 times a day :)
Eliza Madrigal: (not all same people though.hah)
guest: got it:)
Vendy Walpole: I will come for sure again :)
Adams Rubble: bye vendy Thanks!
guest: thanks
guest: bye
Vendy Walpole: waves to all
Fael Illyar: See you later Vendy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Is there a workshop today?
Wol Euler: RL is nudging my elbow, I must go. Bye for now, everyone, take care.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol, See you soon :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Wol :)
Adams Rubble: bye Wol
Adams Rubble: There is a Spirit of the Senses workshop at 7pm SLT
Fael Illyar: middle of the night for me
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, what is that?
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: It is the Phoenix group which has come into SL
Adams Rubble: They will also meet once a month
Adams Rubble: They will have speakers
Adams Rubble: tonight is a scientist
Fael Illyar: Oh... I'm somewhat interested then ...
Adams Rubble: yes Fael :)
Adams Rubble: Fael and I met them
Fael Illyar: in RL
Adams Rubble: at the same time we met :)
Adams Rubble: in RL
Eliza Madrigal: Ah...what is the Phoenix group?
Adams Rubble: They meet regularyl in RL and go on trips together
Adams Rubble: they have wide interests
Adams Rubble: It is a discussion rgoup in RL
Adams Rubble: moving into SL
Fael Illyar: Well, this was an interesting conversation I bumped into :)
Adams Rubble: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...149&Itemid=179
Adams Rubble: that is the link to their page
Eliza Madrigal: hehe..certainly a great way to start a Sunday
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Adams :)
Fael Illyar: I just had got home and barely settled down when I suddenly just had to login
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: We pulled you here Fael, haha
Fael Illyar: Yes, you did :)
Fael Illyar: even left a seat free for me ;)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fael Illyar: the seat I'd pop on in :)
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, thought that too...and wondered who the one on the other side was for...though they didn't appear...
Eliza Madrigal: didn't hear the call. haha
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fael Illyar: or heard but couldn't come
Adams Rubble: ah, sad
Eliza Madrigal: Well, they are probably watching tv
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Adams Rubble: or fighting off mosquitoes
Eliza Madrigal: Ahahha! Yes, I'm sure that's it
Fael Illyar: we can spend the rest of the day listing reasons ;)
Adams Rubble: yes, we could
Eliza Madrigal: Once, my mother was sent a pair of earrings with enormous mosquitos in them...from Australia
Adams Rubble: !!!
Fael Illyar: hehe, funny :)
Eliza Madrigal: Since then I've not felt so bothered by our Miami version
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: I wonder if they could help as a warning
Fael Illyar: real mosquitoes inside something transparent?
Eliza Madrigal: yes...inside a light amber as I recall
Adams Rubble: wow. natural then?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to call and see if she has them still
Adams Rubble: good place for mosquitoes
Eliza Madrigal: haha!!
Fael Illyar: bit more effective than just something made to the shape then :)
Eliza Madrigal: Okay....better run.
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Eliza :)
Adams Rubble: bye Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for this wonderful session. Will probably sign back on if I can, to see if the dream discussion continues later
Adams Rubble: I have to run too. I have choses to do while people are out :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guys
Adams Rubble: Yes, thanks for coming Eliza
Fael Illyar: For anyone interested in Dreams, I'd recommend the movie Paprika
Adams Rubble: and you too Fael :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Eliza Madrigal: Paprika...k...will look for it. Thanks
Adams Rubble: Thank you Fael