2009.04.26 13:00 - More on dreaming

    The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

    I deleted the 'hi's to go toward the discussion which picked up on the theme of Time and Dreams and Reality.  Riddle mentions something he was thinking about during last Sunday's session before he got bumped from the session due to tech problems.  The discussion continues with more strands and topics triggered by previous comments.  I offer a few things about my understanding of dreaming, but mostly this discussion evolves and billows on its own.  So interesting to see how much interest dreams and the dreaming experience seem to trigger, perhaps as it lilts on the edge of various realities that we inhabit.


    Riddle Sideways: I was dreaming about whether I haad time in the same measure in my daydreams and was bumped
    Maxine Walden: ah...yes
    Maxine Walden: we had thought of continuing the theme of dreams, time, reality -- the topics of last time, would you like to continue with your thought from last time, Riddle, when you were bumped?
    Riddle Sideways: well, everything that was being said seemed that remembered time spans whether awake, dream, Rl, SL were sort of all the same
    Riddle Sideways: but nobody really said that out loud
    Riddle Sideways: [or typed it]
    Maxine Walden: Wol, we are reviewing some of what we spoke about last Sunday 1pm, re dreams, time, reality, daydreams...and Riddle was just recalling some things before he was bumped from the session
    gina Broono: may I say something here
    Wol Euler nods
    gina Broono: please?
    Riddle Sideways: yes do
    Maxine Walden: of course
    gina Broono: I used to dream very vivid dreams, ever since in SL, say 3 weeks, my dreams have vanished and are replaced by Sl events
    gina Broono: I find this amazing
    Wol Euler: you dream about being in SL?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Aren't there some cultures who view dreams differently , such as the aboriginese in Australia?
    gina Broono: maybe because I sleep a let less and therefore, the REM sleep is shortened
    stevenaia Michinaga: don;t know much about it
    gina Broono: Wol, yes
    gina Broono: the lines get blurred
    Wol Euler smiles. It is far more common than you think!
    gina Broono: SL is like a dream often
    Riddle Sideways: I remember somebody else asking/saying that they dream SL
    Maxine Walden: a few people last time mentioned that as I recall, riddle, dream SL or dream about SL
    Wol Euler smiles and raises her hand. That would have been me. I dream in SL, or of Wol-in-this-body in my RL, every other night now
    Scathach Rhiadra: our experience of SL is part of our lives, so why would we not dream of it?
    gina Broono: great
    gina Broono: I dream of teh landscapes
    gina Broono: from SL
    Maxine Walden: Steve, also hear your strand or question...maybe we can come back to that
    gina Broono: quite an effect on my RL
    gina Broono: I believe for the better
    stevenaia Michinaga: understand
    Wol Euler nods and smiles
    Riddle Sideways: there are some youTube vids of RL people walking around with an arm out inspecting objects (very funny)
    gina Broono: dreams are so fascinating
    Pila Mulligan: hi Adams
    gina Broono: I have a book that I refer to to analyze them regularly
    Maxine Walden: hi, adams
    Wol Euler: hello adams, and wb steve
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello adams
    gina Broono: it goes into symbolism, numerolog, colors
    Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi adams
    gina Broono: Hi Admas
    Pila Mulligan: welcome back Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: change to wireless
    Maxine Walden: many ways to think about and understand dreams...
    Maxine Walden: Steve, you had a question about other cultures' views of dreams...care to repeat your thought?
    stevenaia Michinaga: just the differing perceptions of what dreams are, and the native Australian s come ti mind but I do not remember what the references was in their culture
    stevenaia Michinaga: was hoping someone else was familiar with it
    Wol Euler: where's tarmel when you need her?
    Scathach Rhiadra: the Dreamtime?
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime --
    Wol Euler: I believe that they believe that the Elders created the world by lucid dreaming
    Wol Euler: by singing songs of creation in their dreams, and the world came into being as they sang it
    Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
    Wol Euler: hello eliza
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, Scath, everyone
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, thank you Pila, interesting reference, Dreamtime
    Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
    gina Broono: Hi Eliza
    gina Broono: u r very very pretty
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Gina...Eliza is great with the grooming. Hahha
    Maxine Walden: hi, eliza, we are reviewing thoughts, questions, re dreams, dreaming...
    Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
    Maxine Walden: oh, hi, Mick
    Wol Euler: hello mick
    Adams Rubble: Hello Mick :)
    Eliza Madrigal: So many thoughts...such an interesting topic
    Riddle Sideways: hi Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
    gina Broono: hello Mick
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
    Riddle Sideways: since last week I have tried to watch how time happens (or not) in my dreams
    Riddle Sideways: to no answer
    Riddle Sideways: a big "can't tell ya"
    Maxine Walden: hi, Ara
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arabella
    Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
    Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara
    Wol Euler: hello ara
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
    Riddle Sideways: hi arabel
    Adams Rubble: Hello Aarabella :)
    Maxine Walden: thanks, Riddle, for the attempted research
    arabella Ella: Hiya all
    Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm, if atree falls in somebodies dream and they don't remember ... :)
    Maxine Walden: haha...did it ever happen...?
    Riddle Sideways: anybody?
    Maxine Walden: not quite sure what you are asking, Riddle...
    gina Broono: but what about the clairvoyant dreams that predict an upcoming real event
    Maxine Walden: Can you just say it again?
    gina Broono: I love and hate those
    Maxine Walden: love and hate them, gina?
    arabella Ella: yes could you ask ur question again pls Riddle?
    gina Broono: if they are of a disaster, like an earthquake and they are a reflection of an actual event it is te4rrifying
    gina Broono: if it reflects a happy event , I love them
    Riddle Sideways: oh it was just a small joke/play that turned toward a question
    Eliza Madrigal: Gina, yes, those dreams cause us to ask ourselves so many questions about 'why' would I see that and what does it mean to the wider world if anything. 'Why' be given a window into something one can't seemingly affect?
    Pila Mulligan wonders about two seemingly connected ideas: (1) factors that stimulate dreaming, and (2) how dream experiences relate to daily (waking) life
    Mickorod Renard: are you sayin that all dreams of the future are unlikely to be somethinfg uyiou cant do anything about?
    Maxine Walden: Pila, you likely have given those two ideas some thought...care to share your considerations?
    Maxine Walden: Aware we have at least two strands going on in our discussion...unless it is too confusing we can try to proceed with them both...
    Pila Mulligan: well, at one extreme, there is the nursey song, '... merrrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream' :)
    Pila Mulligan: at another extreme, some people say they do not have any dreams (maybe menaing they do not remember dreaming)
    Pila Mulligan: what accounts for these extremes?
    Pila Mulligan: and what do dreams mean when we have them
    Pila Mulligan: and can we get a grant to study all this?
    Wol Euler: wb gina
    Eliza Madrigal: WB Gina :)
    Wol Euler: and lol @ pila
    Pila Mulligan: welcome back gina
    gina Broono: ty, bad crash
    Riddle Sideways: and at Pila's side a day full of mental exercise on one particular subject often puts it right into my dreams
    Mickorod Renard: I sometimes ahave dreams that clearly relate to what i am doing in life,,and others so bizare I wonder why my mind has conjured them up
    Mickorod Renard: almost alien thoughts
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi SophiaSharon :)
    Pila Mulligan: most people deem to have dreams that are stimulated by daily activity, to some degree
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Sophie
    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi :)
    Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
    Riddle Sideways: allthe way to Eliza's side where out of th eblue of randomness I dream of a tree falling on my grandmother
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia
    Pila Mulligan: seem*
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
    Maxine Walden: could it be that dream thoughts, (what appears in our dreams) may have several sources, some daily experience or things we still need to think about...
    Pila Mulligan: yes, Maxine -- and then the realtionship to daily (waking) life depends on the stimulus
    Maxine Walden: and some which may be dealing with deep, unconscious issues which may seem bizarre because we are not aware of them?
    arabella Ella: i dont think one can generalise about all dreams ... agree with Maxine about different sources
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    arabella Ella: some are residue, others deeply held ideas, beliefs, fears, feelings etc
    arabella Ella: often unconscious
    Eliza Madrigal: Most of my dreams are blended...what I'm thinkig about with flashes of insight or something like it
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,but i could make more sense of it if the bizare ones are still set in a familiar surrounding
    Riddle Sideways: so you do not think they are random
    arabella Ella: dreams are never random IMHO
    Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes making a context for larger ideas.
    Wol Euler: hello sophia
    Eliza Madrigal: Sophia P, Hi :)
    sophia Placebo: hi wol all
    Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
    gina Broono: Hi Sophia
    Mickorod Renard: hi Sophie
    Eliza Madrigal: The 'why' dreams I mostly was referring to those who have future telling dreams. I've not had too many of those. :)
    arabella Ella: aren't the future oriented dreams part of the mystery of time?
    Maxine Walden: some have thought that one of the function of dreams is to allow the dreamer to continue to sleep; I have on occasion wondered whether an 'unfamiliar' setting may be the dream's attmept to not waken the dreamer with a familiar setting...
    Eliza Madrigal: seems so ara :)
    gina Broono: I used to dream of building collapses 6 months before 911
    Mickorod Renard: I think its not always obvious that you have a future telling one or not,,and of course remembering dreams also eliminates many
    gina Broono: true Mick
    Wol Euler: I have had dreams that incorporated noises from RL in such a way that I didn't have to wake up and deal with them
    Pila Mulligan: there seems to be a variety of different factors that stimulate different types of dreams (daily mental focus, environmental things, unconscious sources, future events, etc.)
    Mickorod Renard: or rather not remembering many
    gina Broono: I try not to open my eyes upon awakening to anchor the dream
    Maxine Walden: yes, wol, clever dreams to so incorporate sounds...
    arabella Ella: what i find weird is our memory or otherwise of dreams ... why should we remember some and forget others so easily?
    Maxine Walden: yes, trying to recall the dream, so as not to have them fall over the horizon of forgetting...often a challenge
    gina Broono: and ....maybe they are 2 parallel worlds we oscillate between really
    Eliza Madrigal: I think we cultivate remembering
    arabella Ella: is it possible to cultivate remembering dreams and if so how?
    Mickorod Renard: thats spooky gina,,but i have wondered along similar lines before
    Wol Euler: hello moyra, nice to see you again
    Riddle Sideways: only 2 gna?
    gina Broono: ty, Mick
    Moyra Ares: hello
    Eliza Madrigal: Hi Moyra
    gina Broono: 2 I can recall
    Adams Rubble: Hello Moyra
    Mickorod Renard: hi moyra
    gina Broono: coming out of dreamland is like coming out of anasthesia
    Moyra Ares: thanks for teleporting
    gina Broono: mmmm, a lovely sensation
    arabella Ella: but when under anasthesia we dont dream do we?
    Maxine Walden: hello Moyra, are you familiar with these sessions? That we post the chatlog?
    Eliza Madrigal: With some dreams Gina, or with all for you?
    sophia Placebo: dont think so arabella
    gina Broono: I think there is a lot of mental activity, that's why many claim to have experienced death
    Wol Euler: she was with us this morning, Maxine :)
    Mickorod Renard: regularity of remembering dreams is a nice, sometimes tiring situation,,and i miss it
    gina Broono: the white light syndrome then
    Eliza Madrigal: I think so. When we write them down or pay attention to them in some way, we seem to remember more. That's a type of cultivation.
    Maxine Walden: thanks, Wol
    Pila Mulligan: we seem to think it is helpful to try to mentally integrate or interpret remembered dream expereince with waking expereince
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,i must cultivate more
    Maxine Walden: as if we intuitively sense that the dream has something to convey to us, if we can connect with it, Pila?
    arabella Ella: i feel so sad when i know i have just had a significant dream and it is forgotten ... the memory of the dream ... so easily
    Maxine Walden: as if you are missing something, Ara?
    arabella Ella: yes missing something very significant ... a message
    sophia Placebo: recently i became resistant to remmbebring my dreams but i read something today that bring a recent dream to surface , if i hadnt read it today i might forget that dream
    Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if it affects our daytime processing whether we remember or not
    Pila Mulligan: yes, Maxine
    Mickorod Renard: I feel that when i had lots of dreams i became obsesive about them
    gina Broono: dreams Do affectour daily lives
    arabella Ella: are dreams linked to imagination too i wonder?
    gina Broono: something to learn from , be guided by, warned
    Mickorod Renard: I cannot imagine rthat dreams do not have a positive purpose
    Maxine Walden: my own current thought is that we 'think' on many levels, and the 'thought' that occurs in dreams, which are remembered, and those which are not remembered may differ in terms of depth, and perhaps our readiness to know what the dream was about
    Wol Euler nods
    Riddle Sideways: nods too
    arabella Ella: do you mean Maxine that our conscious ego may block out dreams deliberately but subconsciously?
    Mickorod Renard: maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: Makes sense to me Maxine, especially the way you phrase it using levels or layers
    Maxine Walden: so that as we become ready to think about the message of the dream it is more likely we may remember them
    sophia Placebo: if a dream repeat many times it makes you remmeber it and worry about it
    Maxine Walden: I think there are censors Ara, in various aspects of the mind...yes
    arabella Ella: depends sophia whether the dream is pleasant or not
    Riddle Sideways: then there are the awake times of deja vu when you know you dreamedwalking up these stairs
    Wol Euler: or maybe just a stack of things needing atttention, and some ideas/events only get taken off the stack at nicht when the main processing stops?
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    Maxine Walden: that too, wol
    Mickorod Renard: but some are just bizzare
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Maxine Walden: yes, Mick
    Wol Euler: I thik sometims that intuition sneaks under our guard in dreams, to tell us things that the conscious mind isn't ready to hear
    Eliza Madrigal nods
    arabella Ella nods
    Maxine Walden: agree, Wol
    Mickorod Renard: I agree there Wol
    sophia Placebo: well , both arabella, dreaming of army of ants attacking your home and of a fantasy trip overseas in summer vaccation
    Wol Euler: I discovered that a friend was unreliable, lying to me and others, through a dream.After dreaming it, I was able to see her behaviour clearly
    arabella Ella nods
    Eliza Madrigal: Something you knew under the surface, as it were
    Moyra Ares: was she cheating?
    gina Broono: that is powerful,
    Moyra Ares: or he?
    Maxine Walden: interesting, Wol, your intuition/dreaming self was wise
    Wol Euler: yes, "cheating" was a good word for it.
    Maxine Walden: I also find that the feeling that a dream conjures can be part of the message, the feeling in the dream or the feeling in recalling the dream
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats interesting
    Maxine Walden: feelings often link our various experiences...
    Mickorod Renard: but also some dreams are special in that you can feel or sense something diferent in the aftertaste
    Mickorod Renard: some urgence
    arabella Ella: @Maxine ... what do you think of the idea some ppl believe that some dreams may reveal experiences from a previous life?
    Maxine Walden: and just to say that the many things triggered for us during this discussion...one thing triggering another...may also be the way our mind works in waking and sleeping...sort of like we are living out the dreaming process right here
    sophia Placebo: feelings do count even in the real time it was dreamt
    Riddle Sideways: SLT chats do seem a middle ground, Maxine
    Maxine Walden: Ara, I believe some people do think that...the collective unconscious for me makes it possible for some kind of over-arching memroy to be available...
    Adams Rubble: I must go. bye veryone :)
    arabella Ella: interesting
    arabella Ella: bye Adams
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams :)
    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care
    Mickorod Renard: bye adams
    sophia Placebo: bye adams
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams
    Wol Euler: wb again gina
    arabella Ella: so dreams may have some sort of memes in them too you think Maxine?
    Riddle Sideways: seems funny we question our dreams. the feelings in them etc. but don't do the same to waking
    gina Broono: crashes
    gina Broono: ty
    Maxine Walden: possibly, or echoes ara
    Mickorod Renard: i keep wanting to ask who the characters are in my dreams
    gina Broono: Riddle, how insightful that is
    Eliza Madrigal: Riddle: great point, that.
    gina Broono: maybe in our dreams we question our waking life
    Maxine Walden: we often seem more anchored in waking life, as if it is more 'real', Riddle?
    Eliza Madrigal: or whatever part of us that is censoring is 'sleeping'
    Mickorod Renard: I very rarely recognise people
    gina Broono: does everyone here dream in color?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    arabella Ella: yes
    Maxine Walden: I have to go to, another meeting, but the chatlog will continue and I will post it later...great discussion...thanks everyone
    Eliza Madrigal: often gina
    Wol Euler: definitely
    gina Broono: me, always
    Wol Euler: bye maxine, take care
    Mickorod Renard: bye maxine
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine. Thank you
    arabella Ella: bye Maxine thanks
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Maxine, thank you
    Maxine Walden: shall we continue this next time? This discussion next time?
    sophia Placebo: bye maxine
    Wol Euler: yes, please
    arabella Ella: yes pls
    Mickorod Renard: plese
    Riddle Sideways: not sure I buy that 'this' current reality is 'THE' waking, real, conscience only world
    Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine, thanks
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank y0u maxine
    Maxine Walden: OK, will consider this s theme session on dreams and reality, etc
    Riddle Sideways: ok, bye maxine
    gina Broono: Maxin, I'm with you
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off too
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve, Riddle
    Mickorod Renard: bye steve
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve and Riddle
    stevenaia Michinaga: see you all gaine soon
    Eliza Madrigal: Seem to be layers of both waking and sleeping, with various types of dreaming woven thoughout both?
    Wol Euler: bye steve, bye riddle
    Riddle Sideways: bye all andd thank you
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Steve, Riddle
    Mickorod Renard: riddle
    gina Broono: me too, it was enlightening as always
    Wol Euler: and bye gina
    gina Broono: till next time
    Mickorod Renard: bye gina
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye gina :)
    arabella Ella: bye gina
    Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, Namasté
    gina Broono: have a great evening all
    arabella Ella: ciao scath
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Scath. Namaste
    Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
    Pila Mulligan: by Scathach
    sophia Placebo: namaste
    Mickorod Renard: bye scath
    Wol Euler: let#s shift around, moyra
    Wol Euler: good god, there's a yak out there!
    Eliza Madrigal: wheer?haha
    arabella Ella: a yak?
    Wol Euler: behind mick, a few hundred metres out
    Moyra Ares: shift around?
    Wol Euler: big black hairy thing.
    Moyra Ares: oh im all alone here
    Wol Euler: right, move to me
    arabella Ella smiles ... and does not see the yak
    Wol Euler: it's one of my oddities, I like to sit together
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    arabella Ella: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Find it Mick?
    Mickorod Renard: i cant see one
    arabella Ella: has Mick gone exploring?
    arabella Ella: brave mick
    Wol Euler: due west of us
    sophia Placebo: i like to know what is the least desired pillow of the rest pillows if new comer arrived?
    arabella Ella: yes i can see the green dot of the yak on my mini map
    Eliza Madrigal: Oh...see something out there
    Wol Euler: it tends to fill up from here northwards
    Mickorod Renard: I think its ram off
    Wol Euler: the northeast corner fills last
    Mickorod Renard: ran
    arabella Ella: you scared it off mick?
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Mickorod Renard: looks like it
    Eliza Madrigal: Indeed SL is like a dream , merrily merrily
    Mickorod Renard: ok,,i am off home,,bye everyone
    Wol Euler: bye mick, take care
    arabella Ella: i must go too ... nite all
    sophia Placebo: bue mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick :)
    arabella Ella: bye Mick
    Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara
    Pila Mulligan: bye mick
    Wol Euler: and bye ara
    Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
    sophia Placebo: bye ara
    Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
    Moyra Ares: everybody is leaving
    sophia Placebo: hi pila
    Wol Euler: the hour is up...
    Moyra Ares: oh
    Wol Euler: the meetings are every 6 hours, 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
    Eliza Madrigal: :) No rule to leave though
    Wol Euler: yep
    Moyra Ares: i didnt thought about that, i thought people come here and chat 24/7
    Wol Euler: some do continue quite a wihle. The record is six hours.
    sophia Placebo: mayora may i say : your avatar is perfectly made to make me feel scared:)
    Moyra Ares: thanks.....its made for a post apocalyptic sim... :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah! Context is everything. hah
    sophia Placebo: i see :) post nuclear mass destruction maybe ?
    Moyra Ares: i got asked about getting nightmares when i sitting hours infront of photoshop and painting blood
    Wol Euler: yeah...
    sophia Placebo: :)
    Moyra Ares: no i dont
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, easy to wonder. One person sees a scary movie and has nightmares and another not at all
    Moyra Ares: its the radiation what caused this
    Wol Euler nods
    Moyra Ares: we are ghouls in the game...some sort of mutants
    Moyra Ares: and we still stick to what we believe are our human values :)
    Moyra Ares: well some do others..well they just search food
    sophia Placebo: sound intersting
    Moyra Ares: many of us just live in the severs
    Eliza Madrigal: I'm not great at roleplaying games...still find it tricky to have a male av or the giant wolf. Well, not so much the wolf. No one asks the wolf for history, etc. :)
    Moyra Ares: little bit like the morlocs in the time machine
    Moyra Ares: it feels like acting
    Moyra Ares: i like it
    Eliza Madrigal: I suppose if everyone is in a role other than something like themselves, it is easier
    Wol Euler: mmmmm, a male av is not in itself roleplaying ... might just be a different bit of you getting out :)
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, that's how I'm trying to approach it. Build empathy! haha
    Eliza Madrigal: males in SL definitely have fewer choices, ie clothes and such
    Wol Euler: just as RL!
    sophia Placebo: i like to role play who am i really , dosnt matter what situation would you put me in , but the thing in sl is that the situation is highly modefiable , not like the real life satate where you need ages to change few things
    Wol Euler: all my avs speak with natural voices, I do not "play" being any of them
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...it is the context which changes then, Wol...what 'you' do with/in that
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Moyra Ares: as a storyteller i had to roleplay many roles in my past...and i somehow enjoyed experiencing all those characters...i can understand why a writer listens to his characters telling him stories.
    Wol Euler: yes, avs are very much like characters, they develop in ways that can be surprising
    Eliza Madrigal: I can see that. The situation and setting can speak to you.
    Wol Euler: which is like RL. We play different roles there.
    Wol Euler: I am different in my mother's house than I am at the bar with my boss
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, and our flexibility is key. Good point
    Wol Euler: that difference is at least as great as the diff between Wol and my other avs
    sophia Placebo: g2g , bye all
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia :)
    Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care.
    Eliza Madrigal: Pila, still with us?:)
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: contemplating gender roles
    Pila Mulligan: last I heard, there's not much actual genetic or scientificly measurable difference between the RL human female and male, something less than 2% -- it is the social role that seems to define us
    Moyra Ares: bye sophia
    Pila Mulligan: bye sophia
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm..outwardly imposed differences then mostly
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: inherited prejudices and all
    Wol Euler: or perhaps it is a difference that arises through experience and age, not genetics?
    Pila Mulligan: don't they still talk about the main inlfuences of personality being genetics and environment?
    Pila Mulligan: that used to be the theory
    Eliza Madrigal: nature/nurture, yes
    Wol Euler: genes do have a lot to do with it, yes, from studying twins separated at birth
    Wol Euler: they have the oddest similarities when they meet later on
    Pila Mulligan: yes, I've seen those interesting twin studies
    Wol Euler: like two women wearing identical rings, in second marriages to electricians named RObert
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Wol Euler: freaky
    Eliza Madrigal: hahah...like they had a code, literally
    Eliza Madrigal: that drew in exact details
    Pila Mulligan: and how about the heart transplant patient discovering a craving for BigMacs, something the donor had?
    Pila Mulligan: I could believe that
    Pila Mulligan: but most of our personality seems to come fomr our personal expereince
    Pila Mulligan: or a great deal o fit anyway
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, but experience may be what we draw in based on genetics...that's an uncomfortable idea maybe
    Eliza Madrigal: at one level anyway
    Pila Mulligan: and, Eliza, typical early childhood seems definitely bound by the epxeriences the family allowsthe child to have
    Eliza Madrigal: Certainly
    Pila Mulligan: so we get a running start from quite a few sources
    Pila Mulligan: but evenutally we seem to start preparing our own personal mythoolgy, if we have the opportunity
    Eliza Madrigal: conditioning can be limiting...one sibling may 'break out' in one way, while the other stays in the groove
    Pila Mulligan: 'I belivee this" and 'i believe that'
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Eliza Madrigal: there again flexibility seems to be key. Ability to question and see outside the
    Eliza Madrigal: conditioning
    Pila Mulligan: being older now I see more of the foundation of beliefs being connected to phyiscal factors than I did when physical factors seemed less imposing
    Pila Mulligan: spekaing of flexibility :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hm Pila, what do you mean...beliefs more dominant?
    Pila Mulligan: younger people are more inclined to associate thoughts with their mental independence
    Wol Euler: it's easy to take the body for granted when it works perfectly all the time :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...yes
    Pila Mulligan: older people are more invovled in trying to deal with their physical lmitations
    Pila Mulligan: so an old fut may yell at a young person for a reason unrelated ot what they yell about
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Physical limitations can bring a lot of perspective
    Pila Mulligan: and so exercises like yoga that liberate us physically alos liberate our perception
    Wol Euler: brb, someting in my eye
    Eliza Madrigal: a tangible way to address those limitations
    Pila Mulligan: even that young person may have emotional/muscle memories of being yelled at
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah...yes, see that surely
    Pila Mulligan is hoping Wol's eye empties easily
    Eliza Madrigal: yak dust?
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Wol Euler: probably!
    Pila Mulligan: beter now?
    Pila Mulligan: t*
    Wol Euler: yes thanks
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: I know that I often cannot understand anything I'm reading unless I get outside to walk, meditate (breathe on it), or sleep on it
    Eliza Madrigal: action seems important...circulation
    Pila Mulligan: I need time to integrate ideas also Eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: we'll sometimes talk here and two days later I'm "Hey! I got it!' haha
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: even though we can't really 'get' it :)
    Wol Euler nods
    Pila Mulligan: oh, i think we can get pretty much of it :)
    Pila Mulligan: I like to look for common elements of a dream and something in waking life -- an easy example is Wol's reference to a dream stimulated by an environmental noise -- then a simple understanding of the dream comes from comparing how the noise appears in the dream with the expreience of the noise when awake
    Pila Mulligan: waking life's getting it is similar to that decipehriing
    Pila Mulligan: ideas drift through our minds and we associate them with our experience
    Pila Mulligan: and they can be pretty close, it seems
    Pila Mulligan: sometimes quite lucid
    Pila Mulligan: almost the same
    Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed.
    Wol Euler nods
    Pila Mulligan: however, for me at least, it can take some time
    Eliza Madrigal: Yesterday I remembered out of 'nowhere' what it was like to fall asleep in the back of a car as a child, staring at the stars and streetlights (when seatbelts weren't required)..and wake up so surprised to be home
    Wol Euler: :)
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Eliza Madrigal: that was a kind of dreamy memory
    Moyra Ares: thanks elize...thats a nice memory
    Eliza Madrigal: :)

    It is as this point that the conversants go out of range and the chatlog ends. Evidence of continuing thoughts, conversations some of which will come again next week, some to continue beyond the scope of the chatlog...
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