2009.07.19 19:00 - Myth

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    SophiaSharon Larnia, Vajra Radikal join me for the the group discussion

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is a comfy group for many

    Vajra Radikal: just the fact of discussing the nature of reality with a lion was cool

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello

    Vajra Radikal: g'day steve

    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome as a new Guardian

    Vajra Radikal: thanks hope i get the hang of it

    stevenaia Michinaga: are you hosting any meetings yet?

    Vajra Radikal: nope as a matter of fact i probably need a guardians meeting first to know what is expected

    stevenaia Michinaga: well there are always helpful hints on the wiki and mentors abound here

    Vajra Radikal: i can tell you i feel honored at being designated a guardian

    stevenaia Michinaga: smiles

    stevenaia Michinaga: it's a very interesting group of people who attend these meetings

    Vajra Radikal: yep i have enjoyed those meetings i have attended

    Vajra Radikal: very diverse group

    stevenaia Michinaga: has kept my interest for more than a year

    Vajra Radikal: any particular subjects you enjoy


    stevenaia Michinaga: just reaching to places I feel comfortable with

    Vajra Radikal: res sophia

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sophia

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Steven, Hi Vajra :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: you a re new to SL, Vajra, how did you find this group

    Vajra Radikal: basically hunting sites about buddhism and meditation

    Vajra Radikal: then i found a link in one of them into Kira and PaB

    Vajra Radikal: and got hooked since the 1st time

    SophiaSharon Larnia: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it is a comfy group for many

    Vajra Radikal: just the fact of discussing the nature of reality with a lion was cool

    Vajra Radikal: that was my 1st meeting :)

    Pema Pera arrives

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pema

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes three dee has that affect

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello pema

    Vajra Radikal: hi pema

    Pema Pera: Hi Sophia, Vajra, Steve!

    Pema Pera: and hi, fish and flowers :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: haha

    stevenaia Michinaga: looks like lotus

    Pema Pera: our little pond is getting quite crowded!

    Vajra Radikal: btw where did that lotus come from

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Moon from the afternoon I think

    Pema Pera: from Moon, it says, when you click on it -- no surprise :-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: Quen did the fish on friday

    Vajra Radikal: good symbol the lotus

    Vajra Radikal: beauty arising from the murky waters of mental poisons

    Pema Pera: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I just returned from a weeklong beach vacation of reading, building sand castles and watching the dauphins swims

    SophiaSharon Larnia: nice Steven!

    Vajra Radikal: great! where at?

    Vajra Radikal: I on the other hand will probably miss my vacation including the meet up with the huichol shaman


    Vajra Radikal: 2 much happening at work

    stevenaia Michinaga: the very south of New Jersey, Cape May Point, also know as "Exit 0"

    stevenaia Michinaga: who is huichol shaman?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (smiles at Steven... I know that exit)

    Vajra Radikal: the huichol are an indigenous tribe from central mexico

    Vajra Radikal: i was supposed to go to a meet up with their shaman

    Vajra Radikal: I've been told about their nature myths and was interested in knowing more about them

    stevenaia Michinaga: do you study Myth?

    Vajra Radikal: what about you pema and soph any vacations coming up=

    Vajra Radikal: i do love studying about myths

    SophiaSharon Larnia: none for me :)

    Vajra Radikal: especially after i had the chance of reading joseph Campbell's work

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I like tracing the commonalities in different cultural myths

    Pema Pera: my work is my vacation, mostly :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: lucky! ha

    Vajra Radikal: soph have you read the hero's journey

    Pema Pera: :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: I found that building sand castles but me in touch with impermanence as the tide came in, in a direct was that was quite lovely. Yes the sands are just relocated doing new things elsewhere

    stevenaia Michinaga: *Yet

    SophiaSharon Larnia: a long time ago Vajra

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ago*


    jeena Cyberstar: oh sure thanx

    Vajra Radikal: hi jeena welcome

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (but forget most of what I have read over time ) :) Myths do follow a similar pattern.

    stevenaia Michinaga: welcome Jeena have you been here before?

    Pema Pera: Hi Jeena!

    jeena Cyberstar joins us

    jeena Cyberstar: thanx

    jeena Cyberstar: hello all

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Jeena

    stevenaia Michinaga: *here

    SophiaSharon Larnia: what interests me too, are the common symbols used

    Vajra Radikal: on the subject of myths the commonality probably arises from the fact that those symbols address

    Vajra Radikal: some very common needs in human nature

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

    SophiaSharon Larnia: drawn from a subconscious well

    SophiaSharon Larnia: archetypes, etc

    Vajra Radikal: however i do find that myths are dealt with in different fashion in the orient than in the west

    Vajra Radikal: the east is happy looking at myths as metaphors and the west looks at them

    Vajra Radikal: in a more radical and literal way

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i see your point

    stevenaia Michinaga: you mean, for instance the bible as myth>

    SophiaSharon Larnia: middle eastern myths are quite literal on the surface

    stevenaia Michinaga: which some take more literally than others

    Vajra Radikal: yes for example nobody discusses whether or not avalokitesvara existed

    Vajra Radikal: it is not important

    Vajra Radikal: the importance is in the message

    Vajra Radikal: the whole point of the myth is conveying a message

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes

    stevenaia Michinaga: nods

    Vajra Radikal: yet in middle easter myth we spend more time proving or disproving the bible than actually discussing the essence of the message

    jeena Cyberstar: haha me too

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles * even

    Pema Pera: I think that the very notion of "existence" takes on a quite different sense when you go deep into the kind of experiences that are relevant here . . . . and in Christian mysticism and Sufism, for example, the great mystics and Sufis have quite a different outlook on existence than what you normally read and hear about Christianity and Buddhism; much closer in fact.

    Pema Pera: I meant to say "Christianity and Islam", sorry

    Vajra Radikal: could you elaborate on the sufi perspective

    Pema Pera: When they talk about God and the world, much of what they say is close to the way Buddhist talk about the world

    Vajra Radikal: any 1 care 4 some tea?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles at Vajra... I have some here somewhere :)

    Vajra Radikal: i need to research on sufism

    jeena Cyberstar: sure that will go nice with my soda

    jeena Cyberstar: j/k

    SophiaSharon Larnia: interpreting appearance

    Pema Pera: I'll have to return to RL, nice talking with you all!

    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Pema

    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Pema

    Vajra Radikal: bye pema

    Pema Pera: hello and goodbye Eos!

    Pema departs, Eos Amaterasu arrives

    jeena Cyberstar: see ya :)

    Pema Pera: and bye everyone!

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Eos

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Eos :)

    Vajra Radikal: hi eos

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (brb)

    Eos Amaterasu: HI Sophia, hi Vajra, Stevenaia, jeena


    jeena Cyberstar: oh thanx vajra

    jeena Cyberstar: nice

    SophiaSharon Larnia: we were talking about myth Eos

    Eos Amaterasu: Ah...

    stevenaia Michinaga: and what can be found within the myth

    jeena Cyberstar: would someone refresh or put a memory about eos?

    stevenaia Michinaga: a story, a lesson, a meaning

    jeena Cyberstar: so why myth?

    stevenaia Michinaga: I seem to have a very talkative teacup

    Vajra Radikal: the interesting thing about myths is why do wee need them at all

    Vajra Radikal: you seem thirsty

    Vajra Radikal: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: words are clumsy we need to express convey information that is difficult to express

    Eos Amaterasu: because it's the only way to tell the truth?

    stevenaia Michinaga: history comes in many forms, this may be one type of oral history with a cultural lesson

    Eos Amaterasu: it our own story

    Eos Amaterasu: *it's

    jeena Cyberstar: that's no myth then :)

    Eos Amaterasu: that's all myth then :-)

    jeena Cyberstar: lol

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

    Eos Amaterasu: to hit the point you have to myth the point

    Vajra Radikal: the prob with myth is that we immediately assume it as a fib or a lie

    jeena Cyberstar: wow

    Vajra Radikal: when it is neither true or false

    SophiaSharon Larnia: science in part looks through the myth

    jeena Cyberstar: so then we must not seeing what we think we see

    Vajra Radikal: it's just a metaphor

    jeena Cyberstar: ok tell me what a metaphor is to you

    Vajra Radikal: yet science is to a certain respect flawed

    Eos Amaterasu: science looks to and from the myth

    stevenaia Michinaga: yet science used metaphor to explain itself often

    Vajra Radikal: science has limitations

    Eos Amaterasu: a metaphor is my love's red lips

    jeena Cyberstar: sounds literal

    Vajra Radikal: kije heisenbergs uncertainty principle

    jeena Cyberstar: :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles

    stevenaia Michinaga: a short answer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor

    jeena Cyberstar: yes but that answer is boring

    stevenaia Michinaga: a figure of speech in which a term or phrase is applied to something to which it is not literally applicable in order to suggest a resemblance, as in "A mighty fortress is our God."

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I've been seeing things lately as appearance, so myth is an attempt to explain these appearance in language that people can understand, but language can be a limited form of communication

    stevenaia Michinaga: not my definition, BTW

    Eos Amaterasu: metaphor is related to analogical nature of being, and so is a linguistic fractal of it

    Vajra Radikal: however metaphor is great at attempting to describe the transcendent

    Eos Amaterasu: or the mundane

    jeena Cyberstar: i guess what I'm getting at is language and how we interpret differently because our realities have a different view so how can anything be seen exactly the same way by all people...so maybe is why we use metaphors?

    stevenaia Michinaga: that is much of the purpose of us being here

    SophiaSharon Larnia: why i like to look at commonalities

    jeena Cyberstar: and why i like to look at differences

    Eos Amaterasu notes that use of fractal in that sentence was metaphoric

    jeena Cyberstar: exactly

    jeena Cyberstar: hehe

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes the differences say much too

    Eos Amaterasu: vive les differences

    jeena Cyberstar: to me is the heart of all wars


    Eos Amaterasu: the heart of all wars is ....

    Eos Amaterasu: ?

    jeena Cyberstar: misunderstanding

    Eos Amaterasu: unshared metaphor?

    jeena Cyberstar: yes

    jeena Cyberstar: i think :)

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the differences and the words

    SophiaSharon Larnia: appearance interpreted differently

    jeena Cyberstar: how we view and interpret

    Eos Amaterasu: the ratios of our experienced realities are different

    Eos Amaterasu: ratios - also the mythic counterparts of ratios

    jeena Cyberstar: the internet helps :)

    Eos Amaterasu: or hurts

    SophiaSharon Larnia: can you explain rations to me?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ratios*

    Eos Amaterasu: length of hair, colour, texture, arrangement, etc

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok

    Eos Amaterasu: axes of flexibility

    Eos Amaterasu: plus my less powerful graphics card does not let me see what you see

    SophiaSharon Larnia: or boundaries?

    jeena Cyberstar: exactly

    Eos Amaterasu: and boundaries, yes

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ok

    Eos Amaterasu: the story you project around yourself shapes boundaries

    SophiaSharon Larnia: but these are filters

    jeena Cyberstar: social and value driven boundaries

    stevenaia Michinaga: wonder is the separation lies with lack of patience and time to learn to understand

    jeena Cyberstar: starts at birth

    jeena Cyberstar: so education is best cure

    jeena Cyberstar: self education lifelong

    stevenaia Michinaga: or to listen

    jeena Cyberstar: definitely

    Eos Amaterasu: stevenaia, the separation can also lie in not willing to sit/be there with one's own stuff

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes Steve, listen and stay open to see

    Eos Amaterasu: give myself 9 secs, give someone else 9 secs :-)

    stevenaia Michinaga: always amazed how difficult that can be for some

    Eos Amaterasu: it's easy to forget!

    SophiaSharon Larnia: it is difficult for me, until i just realized it is all appearance !

    SophiaSharon Larnia: grins

    Eos Amaterasu: ^_^

    jeena Cyberstar sips and the wonderful tea

    Eos Amaterasu sees the SophiaSharon Experience, live!

    SophiaSharon Larnia: (blushes)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I don't know where to step

    jeena Cyberstar: this is one bottomless cup

    Eos Amaterasu: being as a bottomless cup

    SophiaSharon Larnia: or a sideless cup

    jeena Cyberstar: lol

    SophiaSharon Larnia: or a 'cup' :p

    Eos Amaterasu: or a timeless cup

    jeena Cyberstar: "my cup runth over"

    SophiaSharon Larnia: a collection of vibrating atoms that appear as a cup

    stevenaia Michinaga: non-being as an empty cup

    jeena Cyberstar sings "i'm a little tea cup short and spout.....here is my handle...."

    jeena Cyberstar: or something like that haha

    SophiaSharon Larnia: what ius poured out

    jeena Cyberstar: too long ago

    jeena Cyberstar: lol


    Eos Amaterasu: I always lied that line from the Beatles' "Penny Lane": though he thinks he's in a play, he is anyway

    SophiaSharon Larnia: nothing is poured out

    Eos Amaterasu: *liked

    Eos Amaterasu: **

    jeena Cyberstar: lol

    SophiaSharon Larnia turns into a teacup

    Eos Amaterasu: I don't think we can get away from myth

    SophiaSharon Larnia: no i don't think so either

    jeena Cyberstar: not until a true global conscience

    jeena Cyberstar: conscious?

    Eos Amaterasu: even then...

    SophiaSharon Larnia: until there are no appearances

    jeena Cyberstar: like in the matrix?

    stevenaia Michinaga: there are always lessons to be learned from myth that cannot be seen any other way

    Eos Amaterasu: there area always "no appearances", in the absolute sense

    Eos Amaterasu: not contradiction with there always being appearances

    SophiaSharon Larnia: yes thought that after i pressed enter :))

    jeena Cyberstar: i think time to explain and everything could be understood

    jeena Cyberstar: but we would die before we finish

    jeena Cyberstar: so yes we need metaphors

    Eos Amaterasu: meanwhile to see a world we need to see a grain of sand

    jeena Cyberstar: so true

    stevenaia Michinaga: I started tonight returning from that very sandy beach

    SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm glad you made it home ok

    SophiaSharon Larnia: i hope

    stevenaia Michinaga: would rather have not left :)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: ahhh yes

    Rowan Masala joins us

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Rowan

    jeena Cyberstar: and why is that?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Rowan

    stevenaia Michinaga: another week of seeing those grains of sand would have been lovely

    jeena Cyberstar: hello rowan

    Rowan Masala: Hi Sophia, all

    Eos Amaterasu: :-)

    SophiaSharon Larnia: or letting them blur together in your vision and just being there

    jeena Cyberstar: oh you must of been on vacation lol

    stevenaia Michinaga: wb Vajra

    SophiaSharon Larnia: wb Vajra

    jeena Cyberstar: wb vajra

    Eos Amaterasu: web v

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, Jeena

    Vajra Radikal: thanks

    Vajra Radikal: A power outage

    SophiaSharon Larnia: oh no

    stevenaia Michinaga: where are you from Vajra?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: so now have to reset all the clocks

    Vajra Radikal: mexico city

    Eos Amaterasu: Must take my leave, thanks, all

    Rowan Masala: 'night, Eos

    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Eos

    Vajra Radikal: bye eos

    jeena Cyberstar: bye eos

    SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Eos

    jeena Cyberstar: thanks for conversation

    Vajra Radikal: so what's the current topic

    Vajra Radikal: ?

    SophiaSharon Larnia: Me too, bye Steven, Vajra, Jenna, Rowan :)))

    Vajra Radikal: bye soph

    Rowan Masala: bye Sophia

    stevenaia Michinaga: thanks for joining us

    SophiaSharon Larnia: thank you!!

    stevenaia Michinaga: and I too must go

    jeena Cyberstar: alright sophia good night to you and thanx for the welcome

    Vajra Radikal: bye then steve

    Rowan Masala: bye all

    jeena Cyberstar: bye stevenaia thanx again

    Vajra Radikal: bye rowan

    stevenaia Michinaga: see you all again I'm sure

    jeena Cyberstar: hmmm just you and I ?

    Vajra Radikal: what about you jeenna

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