2009.07.24 19:00 - Science and Reality

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Dakini Rhode. The comments are by Dakini Rhode.

    Resting and I chatted for awhile until we were joined by Vajra and Pema...

    Resting Thor: so...pab seems to not focus on traditional religious practices
    Dakini Rhode: truly
    Resting Thor: this could be self limiting
    Dakini Rhode: it's an attempt to investigate ways of knowing in a scientific way
    Resting Thor: should Pab expand the focus?
    Resting Thor: the scientific method considers collecting evidence to prove or disprove a scientific hypothesis?
    Dakini Rhode: actually isn't it a traditional buddhist practice?
    Dakini Rhode: science of mind?
    Dakini Rhode: hi Vajra
    Vajra Radikal: namaste people
    Resting Thor: just trying to understand what you meant by science :)
    Vajra Radikal: whats the subjet 2nite?
    Dakini Rhode: don't know that we've landed on one, Vajra - do you have anything in mind?
    Vajra Radikal: im open 2 all
    Vajra Radikal: however i did manage 2 catch buddhism
    Vajra Radikal: ans science in your conversation
    Vajra Radikal: both passionate subject 4 me
    Resting Thor: dakini was explaining pab's scientific approach to knowing
    Vajra Radikal: sounds interesing
    Resting Thor: i suppose she was going to tell me what science is and what is knowable ?
    Vajra Radikal: could u elaborate a bit more
    Dakini Rhode: noticing Pema just came online, I might wait til he joins us :-)
    Vajra Radikal: ok

    An auspicious moment for Pema's arrival!

    Vajra Radikal: morning pema!
    Dakini Rhode: hi Pema :-)
    Resting Thor: he may some suggestions for other topics as well
    Pema Pera: Hi Dakini, Thor, Vajra!
    Resting Thor: hi
    Vajra Radikal: welcome friend
    Vajra Radikal: we were discussing on subjects 4 the session
    Dakini Rhode: we were just beginning to chat about the way PaB is about exploring reality in a scientific way
    Pema Pera: yes, I definitely think PaB's way is in the spirit of science
    Pema Pera: though probably not many colleagues of mine would agree :-)
    Dakini Rhode: Vajra had just asked what is reality and what is science when you arrived
    Pema Pera: wow, great questions -- did you find answers?
    Pema Pera: :)
    Vajra Radikal: we where kust starting
    Vajra Radikal: *just
    Dakini Rhode: haha i assumed you came online just in time to help with those :-)
    Vajra Radikal: as usual :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Vajra Radikal: in a quantum physics approach you might say we collapsed you into our reality to hear you point of view ;)
    Pema Pera is very impressed by Vajra's powers!
    Pema Pera: As for PaB being scientific,
    Vajra Radikal: it could be worse! we could take u a schroedingers cat
    Pema Pera: for me the core of science is not math, or quantitative measurements, important as those two sure are
    Pema Pera: but rather the notion of "radical conservatism"
    Pema Pera: you get brownie points both for radical new ideas and for showing those to be wrong :-)
    Pema Pera: including sometimes showing yourself to be wrong
    Pema Pera: so there is no disbelief that radical new ideas can't work
    Pema Pera: but also no belief in any idea, new or old
    Pema Pera: everything is a hypothesis, to be tested
    Pema Pera: that's the beauty of science, its core I think
    Pema Pera: and that's what we're doing in PaB too
    Resting Thor: testing hypothesis?
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: working with a working hypothesis
    Pema Pera: such as "playing as Being is a worthwhile way to get deeper insight into reality"
    Vajra Radikal: to a certaing extent science isn't true its just the popular accepted view at a given time based on current knowledge
    Vajra Radikal: subject 2 continous change
    Pema Pera: yes, it lives, grows
    Vajra Radikal: and change is expected not something to be avoided
    Pema Pera: it would be conservative to assume that science keeps growing, since it has always done that.
    Vajra Radikal: however i do find it sometimes suffers from a reductionist approach
    Pema Pera: To presume that science is the current snapshot of science is NOT conservative, it is just stupid.
    Pema Pera: reductionist is okay, you have to start somewhere, and then grow
    Vajra Radikal: it disects and subdivides however it has certain problems in viewing holistic aooraches
    Vajra Radikal: approaches
    Pema Pera: it can learn :)
    Pema Pera: and does learn
    Vajra Radikal: agreed
    Pema Pera: from classical to quantum mechanics for example
    Dakini Rhode: hi Eliza :-)
    Pema Pera: huge learning curve :)
    Vajra Radikal: it does so by design
    Pema Pera: greetings, Eliza!
    Vajra Radikal: welcome eliza
    Eliza Madrigal: Greetings Pema :)
    Eliza Madrigal: Hello Vajra, Dakini, Resting :))
    Resting Thor: hi Eliza!
    Eliza Madrigal: :) Hello
    Vajra Radikal: in what respect do you consider PaB scientific?
    Pema Pera: we don't believe and we don't disbelieve
    Pema Pera: we are radical and conservative
    Pema Pera: radical in talking about Being and skipping preliminary stages, common in most traditions
    Pema Pera: we are conservative in not taking anything for granted, wanting to really test everything
    Vajra Radikal: agreed
    Pema Pera: actually many scientists are not very scientific when they look beyond their own domain: many of them disbelieve so many things :-)
    Pema Pera: rather than keeping things open
    Pema Pera: with the benefit of the doubt
    Vajra Radikal: the u would consider radical scepticism as unscientific
    Vajra Radikal: then
    Pema Pera: sceptic is a word that can be used in two ways
    Pema Pera: the positive sense, which I endorse and like, is to take nothing for granted, to not believe, more like agnostic
    Pema Pera: the negative sense, which I abhor, is to assume that something is wrong, to disbelieve, to look down,
    Pema Pera: with that kind of "I don't have to take you seriously" kind of look . . . .
    Vajra Radikal: love yor definition
    Vajra Radikal: btw sorry for the action my avatar suddenly decided to start prostrating
    Dakini Rhode: does your av have a prostration gesture?
    Vajra Radikal: yep half prostration and a short namaste salutation i built
    Dakini Rhode: any chance of getting a copy?
    Vajra Radikal: never tried the anim on a fem before though
    Vajra Radikal: didnt look 2 shabby
    Eliza Madrigal: yes, looks fine :)
    Dakini Rhode: it's great :-)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Dakini Rhode: thank you, Vajra
    Vajra Radikal: any1 care 4 it?
    Vajra Radikal: i also have a buddha tshirt and an endless knot tshirt
    Eliza Madrigal: Sure, that would be nice Vajra
    Pema Pera: I'd go for the endless knot tshirt :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Thanks :)
    Pema Pera: might stand for PaB . . . .
    Eliza Madrigal: :)
    Pema Pera: thank you Vajra!
    Eliza Madrigal: Nice conversation to arrive to tonight. Theme session continuing?
    Pema Pera: not for now, for various reaons
    Pema Pera: reasons
    Eliza Madrigal: Ah :)
    Pema Pera: Wol, Sophia and I were all traveling or otherwise busy at different times . . . .
    Pema Pera: and Vajra Raymaker and I also had different commitments, making us out of sync
    Pema Pera: while Threedee and I paused after four sessions
    Pema Pera: anyone care to start a new theme session?
    Eliza Madrigal: I care to sit in on many! :)
    Eliza Madrigal smiles
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: well, I'll be off to RL
    Pema Pera: great talking with y'all
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pema :)
    Pema Pera: c u soon!
    Vajra Radikal: same here or my wife will make sl my last life
    Eliza Madrigal: hehe
    Vajra Radikal: c u
    Eliza Madrigal: Bye Vajra :) Nice to meet you
    Vajra Radikal: namaste every1
    Vajra Radikal: same here
    Dakini Rhode: thanks for the conversation... have a good nite :-)
    Eliza Madrigal: Yes, I'm rarely on this late, so guess that's a night then :)

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