2009.07.31 13:00 - Observation, evaluation, judgement

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    Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session, filling in for Lia Rikugun.


    Bertram Jacobus: hello adelene :-)
    Bertram Jacobus: hello nyx ... :-)
    Adelene Dawner: hui :)
    Adelene Dawner: hi
    Bertram Jacobus: hello wol ... :-)
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Wol ^.^
    Wol Euler: hello ade, nyx, bertram
    Bertram Jacobus: ade ? :-)
    Wol Euler: nyx, come and join us :)

    I sat beside Ade, then moved to a differently coloured cushion, and she followed me.

    Adelene Dawner snickers at Wol. "I *will* chase you around this circle, silly."
    Wol Euler: Udge told me you might be coming by :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: how do i sit?
    Wol Euler: heheheh, I just don't like that pose, Ade.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver blushes
    Wol Euler: right-click on a cushion and select "sit"
    Wol Euler: there :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ahh ty
    Bertram Jacobus: already done nyx ... :-)
    Wol Euler: there are two poses, if you leftclick the cusion it will change pose
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello everyone
    Wol Euler: hello nymf
    Bertram Jacobus: and hi nymf :-)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: hello nymf
    Wol Euler: how is everyone this evening?
    Nymf Hathaway: Lovely avatar Adelene :)
    Adelene Dawner: Thanks, Nymf ^.^
    Bertram Jacobus: ty i'm fine - it's weekend ! :-)
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees with Bertam :) weekend :)


    Adelene Dawner: I'm good - I just found the blog of a woman who was daignosed with Asperger's at age 50, and enjoying reading that. :)
    Wol Euler: wow
    Adelene Dawner: http://www.aspergerjourneys.com/
    Nymf Hathaway: interesting
    Nymf Hathaway: looking and reading
    Bertram Jacobus: strange : the bell rang without any text (?) ...
    Wol Euler: hmmmmmm
    Wol Euler: well, nothing we can do until Storm surfaces again

    "Works as designed" actually: we had started early. The very first bell, at the top of the hour, is intentionally silent.

    Adelene Dawner: I'm actually reading it in chronological order rather than the blog standard reverse order, so if you're reading in the normal way - I haven't gotten there yet.
    Nymf Hathaway: Bookmarked it... much too long, but interesting for sure
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Wol Euler: I wonder how she came to be diagnosed so late in life?
    Wol Euler: (yes, I know I could read it ...)
    Adelene Dawner: heh
    Adelene Dawner: Well, like most of us who figured it out as adults, she'd always known she was different, and recognized herself in the description.
    Adelene Dawner: I'm actually interested in reading it as the perspective of someone who was raised as normal - a huge amount of how weird I am is that I was told, over and over and over again growing up, that I wasn't normal and shouldn't expect to be.
    Wol Euler: that is interesting.
    Wol Euler: and something of a self-fullfilling prophecy
    Adelene Dawner: I'm not complaining, though :)
    Adelene Dawner: From what I have read, there's a definite upside to knowing from the get-go that 'normal' isn't going to work for you. It's the stigma that comes with that that's the problem.
    Adelene Dawner: But acting weird without a diagnosis can be very stigmatizing, too.
    Wol Euler nods
    Nymf Hathaway: Yes humans judge so easily on a very negative way
    Bertram Jacobus: it's not easy to think and act always in a positive way
    Nymf Hathaway: How come?
    Adelene Dawner: (For those who don't know: I was diagnosed ADD at age 5. I'm almost certainly autistic, but have chosen not to go for a diagnosis because I've had such bad experiences with the psychiatric system and don't want to have anything more to do with them.)
    Bertram Jacobus: i don't know yet for sake nymf ...
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Nymf Hathaway: Hi Fefonz :)
    Adelene Dawner: Part of it with judging is that society in general is set up to work in a certain kind of way, and only to make certain kinds of accommodations, and values certain things over others in a real, functional sense. Anyone who's different will tend to stress that system.
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Wol, Ade, Bert, Nymf, Nyx
    Adelene Dawner: Hiya Fef :)
    Bertram Jacobus: some explanations say we would live in a good age, but it would be in the phase of downfall
    Bertram Jacobus: hi fefonz ! :-)
    Wol Euler: and little kids are very much herd animals. To be different is to be WRONG, no matter what shape your difference takes
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Adelene Dawner: I wish more people grew out of that phase :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Agrees with Wol but there is a task for parents
    Wol Euler: yeah, true
    Nyx SpiritWeaver nods, ye sthat would be ideal
    Wol Euler: well, most do grow out of it, eventually :)
    Fefonz Quan: Though i would say that today's (urban at least) society is much more individualistic than old times
    Adelene Dawner: I'd argue that. Most people are socialized to be accepting of certain kinds of differences. That's not the same as not being judgemental at all.
    Wol Euler: agreed.
    Wol Euler: there is a difference between tolerating and accepting
    Fefonz Quan: not sure there is a way of being non-judgmental at all. we are talking relatives here i guess
    Adelene Dawner: That, too, Wol.


    Adelene Dawner: ...brb, I just heard someone scream outside...
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: unfortunatly judgement is part of human nature, even when you try not to be inevitably yo do
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees with that Nyx but it often is negative before even having looked at the facts
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: indeed
    Fefonz Quan: (we try to kepp the 90-sec quite :)
    Wol Euler: (but we often fail :)
    Fefonz Quan: sure :)
    Adelene Dawner is back, wondering if she's hearing things... o.O


    I try to inject a note of seriousness and high purpose.

    Wol Euler: nyx, the 90 second bell is a development out of the group's main meditation practice
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Shyama
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Shyama :)
    Wol Euler: as described on the website, and in that notecard
    Wol Euler: hello shyama
    Bertram Jacobus: i think, to judge is not wrong, but to condemn can be problematic ...
    Wol Euler: we do frequent mini-meditations, described as a "1% time tax", nine seconds every quarter hour
    Bertram Jacobus: hello shyama
    Nymf Hathaway: to exclude you mean, Bertram?
    Nyx SpiritWeaver grins, i was having trouble watching he conersaition at the same ime sowas gong to ead it after
    Wol Euler: during these meeetings that gets extended to 90 seconds
    Wol Euler: ah, there is a solution to that!
    Wol Euler: click on the button "local chat" at the bottom left
    Bertram Jacobus: yes nymf ! :-)
    Wol Euler: that opens a scrollable window which has everything said near you since you logged in.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: oh lovely thank you one again
    Wol Euler: :)
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Adams
    Bertram Jacobus: hello adams ... :-)
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Adams :)
    Wol Euler: adams, what a nice surprise
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: so much to learn, smiles
    Wol Euler: yeah, but the learning is fun too
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: oh aways
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: always
    Adams Rubble: wow. Ooodles of people here. Hello everyone :)
    Bertram Jacobus: how did you come to this place nyx ? :-)
    Shyama Sheryffe: hi adams
    Fefonz Quan: as long as not Noodles :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: it was recomended to me by a friend
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Bertram Jacobus: great nyx :-)
    Wol Euler: Nyx is brand new, she met a friend of mine at her hatching place :)
    Fefonz Quan: Wol, your PR never fails :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Than you have been lucky on your first day Nyx :)
    Adams Rubble: welcome to Second Life Nyx
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: thankyou

    Fefonz recalls us to order.

    Fefonz Quan: we were talking about judgements and can/should it be avoided
    Fefonz Quan: at least we see that discussion about it surely can :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Smiles at Fefonz... wonderful try
    Shyama Sheryffe: well i think u should use ur intellignece to evaluate things
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Shyama Sheryffe: judgement is perhaps a bit differetn
    Fefonz Quan: yes there is a fine line there
    Adams Rubble: we have to ask WHO is judging
    Fefonz Quan: the judge!
    Wol Euler: and why they do it.
    Shyama Sheryffe: and how
    Adams Rubble: but if it is US, WHO of us?
    Bertram Jacobus: already jesus , one says , had said, it would be good to seperate the wheat from the shuff. doesn't that include a judgement already ?
    Adams Rubble: what does that say about us
    Wol Euler: which aspect of us, Adams?
    Shyama Sheryffe: i think that is evaluation
    Adams Rubble: yes Wol
    Fefonz Quan: yes you wouldn't want the shuff in your muffin Bert
    Shyama Sheryffe: judgement means somekind of condemning
    Wol Euler nods to Shyama. Yes, there is a difference
    Shyama Sheryffe: that u r bad
    Wol Euler: not judging doesn't mean becoming blind
    Shyama Sheryffe: and i am better
    Adams Rubble: sometimes
    Wol Euler: it does mean not becoming angry, or arrogant and proud
    Fefonz Quan: (or the other way around Shyama. people do both)
    Shyama Sheryffe: nods
    Bertram Jacobus: muffins without shuff - yes, that's nice ... ;o)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, there is some emotional layer put upon the evaluation that starts the whole mess
    Wol Euler: right


    Shyama Sheryffe: perhaps a feeling of separation on emotinal level...
    Adams Rubble: deciding not to touch the hot stove is a judgement
    Fefonz Quan: i am not sure adams. declaring the hot stove as 'inherently bad thing' is a judgment
    Wol Euler shakes her head. Let's be careful with the vocabulary.
    Wol Euler: it's a decision, based perhaps on a judgement we once made, like "Damn, burned fingertips are not good"
    Bertram Jacobus: could you explain, why you think that adams ?

    Observation is not the same as judgement.

    Adelene Dawner: 'The stove is hot' is an observation. 'The stove is too hot' is a judgement.
    Shyama Sheryffe: i think that all is healthy evaluation of facts
    Wol Euler nods to ade
    Fefonz Quan: i think there can be also quantitive observation (too hot) without the judgment put in
    Adams Rubble agrees with Ade
    Shyama Sheryffe: i dont want to burn my finger
    Nymf Hathaway: was looking at an interview on tv about a woman with polio... she is extremely lonely due to her polio.... she gets judged every day
    Bertram Jacobus: i couldn't express that so fast fef ... :-)
    Fefonz Quan: hope it wasn't too fast Bert :)
    Adelene Dawner: Perhaps not all judgements are bad? 'The stove is too hot to touch' has a very different effect than 'this person is too ugly to be friends with'.
    Bertram Jacobus: no. i find it great ! :-)
    Wol Euler nods again
    Fefonz Quan: i agree Ade, so maybe we need to refine the definition of the word here
    Shyama Sheryffe: is judgement comparing me with another persn ?
    Fefonz Quan: sure (for my opinion)
    Wol Euler: judgement is assigning a value to a comparison.
    Adelene Dawner: It doesn't have to be with another person. It can be with a standard, or an ideal.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: it might depend on how you were compared
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that increases even the posibbility it you will loose the competition Ade :)
    Adelene Dawner: I like that definition, Wol.
    Shyama Sheryffe: comparing in a way that makes u feel proud or sad
    Fefonz Quan: i would also say emotional value, not only scientific value
    Adelene Dawner: Regarding ideals: Most people don't judge others by ideal standards, but they do judge themselves by ideal standards in one way or another.
    Wol Euler: yes, the emotional weight is the key.
    Adams Rubble: It is problemmatic when we judge a person and not behavior
    Shyama Sheryffe: behaviour we eavluate, person we judge ?
    Wol Euler: ideally :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: when i meditate i start by describing something in my mind, without using anything that would be an opinion, so if someone was compairing you to another person objectively then i would say that it wasnt a judgement, that is what i was meaning, i think
    Adelene Dawner: Even judging behavior isn't risk-free.
    Wol Euler: yes, nyx.
    Fefonz Quan: agree with Nyx
    Adams Rubble: no Adelene but we often need to do it
    Adelene Dawner: Need, why?
    Adams Rubble: I don't know
    Adams Rubble: I really don;t get into these ethical discussions
    Bertram Jacobus: but societies find rules what is good and what is bad
    Wol Euler: well, we could bring it back to PaB by saying that observation or evaluation try to see what is
    Wol Euler: by dropping judgement

    What to judge?

    Adelene Dawner: Also... I've found it much more useful, when I do need to judge for some reason, to judge based on views and values rather than specific behaviors. Most actions aren't universally okay in all situations - a person's views and values are what determines how they act in what situations.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i agree
    Fefonz Quan: i find that on the practical level, looking at myself and see what 'mind' arises when i give the judgement
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees with Adelene
    Fefonz Quan: is a way to see if this is 'wrong' judement or just evaluation
    Adelene Dawner nods at Fef.
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fefonz Quan: if it makes me angry/proud/agressive etc. ... well, then i know
    Fefonz Quan: So in a way judgement is when the ego-oriented filters are fully on
    Shyama Sheryffe: evaluation is with love perhaps and judgement is the opposite
    Bertram Jacobus: i'm "a bit" tired today, so i leave already - ty all for the talk and have a good time further on please ! - and may all beings be happy ...


    Nymf Hathaway: Judgement has a negative bite
    Fefonz Quan: (BYe bert)
    Wol Euler: bye bert, ah too late
    Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
    Wol Euler: hello yak
    Nymf Hathaway: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Yaku
    Shyama Sheryffe: hi yaakuzza
    Adams Rubble: Hello Yakuzza :)
    Adams Rubble: I mst run. bye everyone :)
    Wol Euler: bye adams, take care.
    Shyama Sheryffe: bye adams
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: good bye, lovely to meet you
    Nymf Hathaway: sorry to have missed Adams :(
    Wol Euler: she always leaves very quickly
    Fefonz Quan: yes, i would say that you shouldn't judge yourself here, there are two pparties on teh leaving/greeting procedure
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: hahahha
    Wol Euler: :)
    Shyama Sheryffe: lol
    Fefonz Quan: (and that it true for RL too)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm

    As if that were a signal, the traditional Friday night silliness begins.

    Fefonz Quan: somehow we came to a position where i am the one violating the symmetry here, but i have nothing to do about it...
    Wol Euler nods. I can fix it.
    Nymf Hathaway: hahhaha sorry
    Wol Euler: ah, not any more.
    Nymf Hathaway: too fast
    Wol Euler: there.
    Nymf Hathaway: Nice :)
    Fefonz Quan: cool :)
    Wol Euler: this is something we do sometimes, nyx :)
    Wol Euler: one of my hobbyhorses is room dynamics, why people sit where tehy do
    Fefonz Quan: (and not the most silly one of them :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: chuckles
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok so what would you like me to do
    Wol Euler: ah :)
    Fefonz Quan: just be yourself, hoho
    Shyama Sheryffe: room dynamics..is it like feng shui ?
    Wol Euler: I want you to wear the thing I am about to give you :))))))
    Nyx SpiritWeaver smiles, i am always myself, no matter if its the right thing or not
    Adelene Dawner laughs at Wol - I was juuuust thinking that :D
    Nymf Hathaway: smiles at Wol
    Fefonz Quan: great! so no worries :)
    Wol Euler: open your inventory, right-click on that and select "wear"
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok just right click it and wear
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok gotcha
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: dones
    Wol Euler: it's invisible and hrmless, you won't see or feel a thing
    Wol Euler: until someone says the magic word
    Adelene Dawner: /o onigokko
    Wol Euler: onigokko
    Nyx SpiritWeaver laughs
    Wol Euler laughs
    Shyama Sheryffe: lol
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: love the music
    Wol Euler: if you get dizzy, hold the alt key and click-and-hold on the ground
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: how does it do this
    Wol Euler: that fixes your camera still.
    Wol Euler: stop
    Wol Euler: hheheh
    Adelene Dawner: :D
    Wol Euler: the wonders of scripting and animations :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: oh my sounds technical
    Nyx SpiritWeaver chuckles
    Wol Euler: all you need to know is that it works :)
    Wol Euler: it's a black box.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver grins and laughs a bit
    Wol Euler: anyone can start it by saying the magic word
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i still hear the music, but he wer no longer moving
    Adelene Dawner: .....
    Adelene Dawner: onigokko
    Wol Euler: :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver laughs
    Nyx SpiritWeaver throws her hands in the air and shouts, "WEEEEE!!!"
    Wol Euler: do you have one, shyama?
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Yakuzza Lethecus: onigokko
    Wol Euler: yay
    Shyama Sheryffe: yes..lol
    Shyama Sheryffe: this is fun
    Wol Euler laughs
    Wol Euler: so gloriously silly
    Adelene Dawner: hehehehehehehehe
    Yakuzza Lethecus: stop
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: need to have a dose or two of silly everyday
    Wol Euler: oh yes.
    Fefonz Quan: I like the way Wol's and Ade's hair flies when they run :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: throw in something new, and a few odd happenings, and i say its a great day
    Wol Euler: a silly a day keeps the dull away.
    Shyama Sheryffe: now we can be serious again..laugh
    Wol Euler: you've had a proper welcome to SL now, Nyx :)


    Nyx SpiritWeaver grins, "thank you, it has been interesting so far."
    Wol Euler: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: I have a nice animation... you may already have it... but if not... let me know
    Shyama Sheryffe: beautiful
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: oh my, does that make you dizzy
    Wol Euler smiles
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: quite graceful
    Nymf Hathaway: Its lovely at night time high in the sky :)
    Fefonz Quan: nice, Nymf!
    Nyx SpiritWeaver smiles
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: this place is lovely
    Wol Euler: we try :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: you succeed
    Wol Euler: it was built by Storm Nordwind, a fine SL builder
    Wol Euler: and one of us, when he isn't incommunicado in a RL retreat for two weeks
    Nyx SpiritWeaver chuckles
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i am going to asume that rl is real life?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, those RL activities just take so much of your useful time!
    Wol Euler: a wonderful story, he met the love of his life in SL, and is moving to the US to marry her next month.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: oh that is wonderful
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: congratulations
    Wol Euler: yeah, really.
    Wol Euler: and yes, RL = real life; also sometimes called FL = first life
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: makes sense
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i think i attend genesis event
    Yakuzza Lethecus: i am curious
    Wol Euler: yes, I just saw the note
    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good time Yakuzza :)
    Yakuzza Lethecus: take care everyone, cye later or there
    Fefonz Quan: have fun Yaku!
    Wol Euler: enjoy!
    Shyama Sheryffe: bye yakuzza

    Back to the symmetry games (musical chairs).

    Wol Euler: there :)
    Wol Euler: symmetrical again
    Wol Euler: ack.
    Wol Euler throws a pillow at Fef
    Nymf Hathaway: hahhaha
    Fefonz Quan: this is symetrical, circular
    Wol Euler: ah yes, it is now
    Nymf Hathaway: Nice Adelene
    Fefonz Quan: (or was)
    Adelene Dawner: hehehehe
    Shyama Sheryffe: all i changing..
    Shyama Sheryffe: lol
    Wol Euler: oh, you're right, it was rotationally symmetrical before.
    Wol Euler: yes!
    Wol Euler: well done fef.
    Fefonz Quan: circular again
    Wol Euler: a different kind of silliness :)
    Fefonz Quan: (rotational is more accurate)
    Fefonz Quan: and now aritmetic series gaps
    Adelene Dawner chuckles.
    Wol Euler: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: oooooh nice Fefonz
    Wol Euler: what a buncha geeks <3 <3 <3
    Adelene Dawner giggles.
    Nymf Hathaway: keeps quiet :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, NL here ;-)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i have to do soemthing for a minute, be right back
    Wol Euler: ok hb
    Fefonz Quan: shifting positions, me going to do a big shift in RL in a few weeks
    Wol Euler: mmhmm, that's right.
    Nymf Hathaway: Moving?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, 7 time zones to teh est
    Nymf Hathaway: wow
    Wol Euler grins
    Fefonz Quan: the east
    Nymf Hathaway: from ... to?
    Nymf Hathaway: if I may ask


    Fefonz Quan: from the US east coast to the mediteranean shores
    Nymf Hathaway: SPOILED!!!!!!!
    Nymf Hathaway: Great Fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: why?
    Wol Euler: :)
    Nymf Hathaway: Sounds like a nice adventure
    Fefonz Quan: well, in a sense US was the adventure :)))
    Nymf Hathaway: really...aha didn't know that
    Fefonz Quan: unlesss we define my whole life as an adventure, and i won't oppose that
    Wol Euler: heheheh
    Fefonz Quan: :)

    Identity and place.

    Fefonz Quan: i was thinking about those big changes in teh context of what we do here
    Wol Euler: mmmm?
    Fefonz Quan: leaving big chunks of identityies in places where we spent a lot of timee
    Fefonz Quan: it is not easy many times
    Wol Euler nods
    Wol Euler: though it goes both ways, I find I take some of where I was to add to my identity
    Fefonz Quan nods too. Yet memories of a place and being there is very different
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Fefonz Quan: and the process of letting it go, is interesting and challenging
    Fefonz Quan: good practice of impermanence and attachement
    Wol Euler: you let go, but you can also keep.
    Wol Euler: you have the memories and the change in yourself from what happened that year, but you let go of the sadness (a judgement!)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, exactly. Or maybe, when sadness arise, letting it be till it dissolves itself without fighting it.
    Wol Euler nods
    Fefonz Quan: in a funny time-circular way, i find myself already missing the places where i still am!
    Adelene Dawner: I get that. I remember when I moved from NJ - a few days before I left, I realized (because there were some changes in the schedule) that I wasn't going to be going to the grocery store I used there, perhaps ever again, even though I'd planned to... it was sad, but kind of funny, too.
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Wol Euler nods and grins at fef
    Fefonz Quan: Yet i am also pleased with such feelings, because tehy are signs for me that i had good and meaningful times here
    Wol Euler: mmhmm
    Shyama Sheryffe: sry i must leave u, ty all for the nice discussion today, bye..
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Shyama
    Wol Euler: bye shyama, take care.
    Adelene Dawner: cya, Shyama.
    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good time Shyama
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: good bye hun
    Adelene Dawner: I think I'm going to head out too - someone I've been trying to catch online just came on.
    Fefonz Quan: nice Nymf
    Nymf Hathaway: Have a good time Adelene
    Wol Euler: ok, goodnight ade, take care.
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Ade, good to see you!
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: have a nice day


    Fefonz Quan: (i have created a monster - or was that you Wol?)
    Wol Euler: heheheheheh
    Wol Euler: I think we reinforced each other's geekitude.
    Nymf Hathaway: is thinking both are to blame :) heheh
    Fefonz Quan: ok, breaking symmetry from now on!
    Wol Euler: oh noez!
    Nymf Hathaway: :)))
    Nymf Hathaway: hmmm doesn't feel right Fefonz

    What is there to do in SL?

    Nyx SpiritWeaver: so what is there to do in second life
    Wol Euler: a lot of it is what we are doing, sitting and talking :)
    Fefonz Quan: I woudn't know :)
    Wol Euler: but you can build, sculpt, paint
    Wol Euler: listen to live music or live theater
    Wol Euler: attend religious services
    Nymf Hathaway: Going to seminars, real life music events
    Wol Euler: play shoot-em-up games with monsters
    Nymf Hathaway: hahhahaha Wol
    Fefonz Quan: (how do you listen to live music?)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver laughs, amazing, so much to do
    Wol Euler: if yo have the talent, build stuff and make a store
    Wol Euler: I know five designers who have closed their RL offices, they earn their RL living in SL
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: how do you build stuff
    Wol Euler: that takes a lot of talent and hard work and luck, though
    Nymf Hathaway: You have a search button down below in your screen Nyx.... look at the events
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok
    Wol Euler: just building is really easy, making it look good is awfully hard :)
    Wol Euler: I can give you a few landmarks to places that have tutorials about building
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: laughs, i bet
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok that would me interesting
    Wol Euler: the Ivory Tower is the place to start
    Wol Euler: a huge and excellently organized tutorial
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: thank you
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i shall return again
    Wol Euler: um, take a landmark so that you can find us.
    Wol Euler: in the World menu, select "create landmark here"
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ok
    Nymf Hathaway: Wishing you a friendly discovery of sl Nyx, have fun
    Wol Euler: we meet at 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
    Fefonz Quan: and we are here every 6 hours :)
    Wol Euler: for certain values of "we"
    Nyx SpiritWeaver chuckles, ok i shalle return
    Fefonz Quan: (SLT times, just in case it wsn't clear)
    Wol Euler: oh yes, an important point.
    Wol Euler: [14:33] Fefonz Quan: (how do you listen to live music?)
    Wol Euler: usually it's streamed into the sim, you turn on streaming audio in your preferences and then you can hear what the performer is singign/playing
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: slt times?
    Wol Euler: SL time
    Wol Euler: not RL timezones
    Fefonz Quan: Thanks Wol!
    Wol Euler: yw
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: is that the time at the top that is two hours behind mine
    Wol Euler: yep
    Wol Euler: and that puts you on the Mississippi :)
    Wol Euler: or in spitting distance of it
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: missouri
    Wol Euler: right :)
    Wol Euler: Germany here, it's coming up to midnight
    Nymf Hathaway: Netherlands here
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: wow, so many places
    Wol Euler: that is one of the joys of SL, meeting so many people that one could never get to know in RL
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: indeed, amazing
    Nymf Hathaway: agrees fully
    Wol Euler: and the wonderful thing is that they are all people like us :)
    Wol Euler: unlike chance aquaintances in airports etc
    Wol Euler: SL is a social concentrator
    Fefonz Quan: like us --> 2-D's ? ;-)
    Wol Euler: well "like us" means many things. But the biggest thing it means is: we have computers, spare time, and we would rather spend our time talking (reading and writing) than watching TV
    Wol Euler: that makes us very unusual :)
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that is a nice definition.
    Fefonz Quan: just thought that 'like us' once could meant just people that can handle a computer, but that is nt relevant anymore
    Fefonz Quan: infact i believe only the last line in your definition gives some real data
    Wol Euler nods


    Wol Euler: most poeple in the westernized world have computers and spare time, yes.
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Nymf, have a good weekend
    Nymf Hathaway: will pop over to Pila's before logging off...wishing everyone a good time and thanks for the thoughts
    Wol Euler: goodnight nymf, sleep well.
    Wol Euler: thanks for the conversation
    Nymf Hathaway: Thanks Fefonz...wishing you the same
    Fefonz Quan: say hi to Piila
    Nymf Hathaway: Good night Wol :)
    Nymf Hathaway: I will

    Musical geekery, just for a change.

    Wol Euler: Nyx, our mutual friend was asked on the hatching area, what kind of game SL is.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: indeed?
    Wol Euler: what he should have said was "it's not a game, it is a community."
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ah, sounds apt from what i have seen here
    Wol Euler: at least the way we use it, it is :)
    Fefonz Quan: so we are communists? ;-)
    Wol Euler: yep
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: sounds like a good way to do it
    Wol Euler: we'll wave the red primflag for ever
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: red prim flag
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: ?
    Fefonz Quan: where all is one, and one is all
    Wol Euler: oh damn, I can't think of the next line.
    Wol Euler: "to be a rock and not to roll?"
    Fefonz Quan: YEAH!
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: laughs
    Wol Euler: heheheheheheh
    Wol Euler: oh I am so pleased
    Fefonz Quan: me too
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: with?
    Wol Euler: fef and I are music geeks as well as symmetry geeks
    Wol Euler: we quote lyrics at each other
    Wol Euler: like Stairway to Heaven
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i love music, but maybe not the same
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: i listen to a bit of everything
    Fefonz Quan: as long as you like that beat :)
    Wol Euler: mmhmm :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: deffinatly
    Fefonz Quan: will need to go, it was a pleasure
    Wol Euler: goodnight fef, take care.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: indeed fefonz, good to meet you
    Fefonz Quan: nite Wol, and welcome Nyx :)
    Wol Euler: actually, it's nearly midnight, I must go too. Work tomorrow :(
    Fefonz Quan: _/!\_
    Wol Euler: nyx, it was a delight to meet you. I hope our paths will cross again soon
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: you as well, i have had a most excellent time
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: have good sleeping
    Wol Euler: I'm pleased :)
    Wol Euler: thank you, goodnight and take care.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: goodnight
    Wol Euler: let me give you one last landmark
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: alright
    Wol Euler: that's a bit of land I own, it has a place to sit. Feel free to use it
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: thank you so much
    Wol Euler: not very comfy yet, I just bought it.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: grins
    Wol Euler: I just remembered how odd it felt when I was new and didn't hve anywhere to go, didn't know any place to sit and be still comfortably :)
    Wol Euler: bye for now, nyx.
    Nyx SpiritWeaver smiles, you are very kind, i think that i would have been lost without you
    Nyx SpiritWeaver: good bye
    Wol Euler: awwwww :)
    Wol Euler: you would have figured it out, we just helped you along. You're going to be OK :)
    Nyx SpiritWeaver grins, thank you


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