2009.09.03 19:00 - Tarry

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    The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug
    doug Sosa: hi steve :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: how are things in Ca, fire's near you?
    doug Sosa: no, way south. we are north of san francisco. beautiful day. that has been really hard down there.
    doug Sosa: i think i forgot, whre on this planet are you?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Eastern Pennsylvania
    doug Sosa: like phily?
    stevenaia Michinaga: about 50 miles north
    doug Sosa: ah on the what is it chester line?
    doug Sosa: grandparents used to live in germantown
    stevenaia Michinaga: the "Main Line"
    stevenaia Michinaga: Not near that
    doug Sosa: isn't there another "line" that begins with C
    stevenaia Michinaga: I'm north of that quite a bit
    stevenaia Michinaga: north of Bucks County
    doug Sosa: ah, way up..
    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: hi Steve and Doug
    doug Sosa: For Pab stuff, I've been thinking a bit about what happens to the RL - mind space when one has lots of projects or people to track, howe we try to
    doug Sosa: hold them in mind
    doug Sosa: hi pila
    stevenaia Michinaga: The weather has changed dramatically here, much cooler, and things in general have taken a quicker pace since August for me
    doug Sosa: we hold them in mind in order to deal with them is rl. i've got enough now that it feels new, like my mind is like too
    stevenaia Michinaga: but the Pab mind stays with me :)
    doug Sosa: many things in my zipper bag..
    Pila Mulligan: my mind ran out of room long ago, I us lists :)
    Pila Mulligan: use lists*
    stevenaia Michinaga: seems easier to walk away from a full plate for a moment that to work things in to an empty schedule
    stevenaia Michinaga: *Than
    doug Sosa: so when you go to 9 sec do the lists disappears?
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it does for me
    Pila Mulligan: they only appear when I settle into doing them :0
    doug Sosa: :)
    Pila Mulligan: but I am half-retired
    Pila Mulligan: lucky to have less pressing stuff
    doug Sosa: exploring the experience, i find that it used to easy to get into the 9 sec, but now as I start i am afraid i will drop somebody.
    doug Sosa: and the somebody is both in mind and in rl. strange.
    stevenaia Michinaga: brb
    Pila Mulligan: me too, brb
    doug Sosa: lists call :)
    Pila Mulligan: back
    Pila Mulligan: getting a snack :)
    Pila Mulligan: Doug, I don't do the 9 sec practice the usual PaB way
    doug Sosa: and.. :) How?
    Pila Mulligan: i had a similar pre-existing practice that I now see in relation to PaB
    stevenaia Michinaga: back
    Pila Mulligan: you may appreciate it in relation to tai chi
    Pila Mulligan: wb Steve
    doug Sosa: please..
    Pila Mulligan: there are some very arcane old Chinese yoga, as you probably know
    Pila Mulligan: this one involves influences on the body -- particularly when an influence is felt in the calf
    doug Sosa: continue..:)
    Pila Mulligan: the idea is that upon feeling that influence, to tarry in order not to lose balance
    Pila Mulligan: I sense the need to do so several times a day, it usually results in 5-10 seconds of tarrying each time
    Pila Mulligan: oops
    doug Sosa: calf?
    Pila Mulligan: lower leg
    doug Sosa: ok, any piece of bodily tension takes you into some 9 sec like equivalent?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
    doug Sosa: ah paradise :)
    Pila Mulligan: no, just at the calf :)
    doug Sosa: so pila make the connection for me between the calf noticing an PaB.
    Pila Mulligan: well, I had been doing the calf-noticing/tarry for at least 20 years before finding PaB -- and saw some similarity in the pause
    Pila Mulligan: the idea for me is yogic balance
    Pila Mulligan: physical more than mental
    Pila Mulligan: and both seem to do that
    Paradise Tennant: hmm we store memories in our muscle tissue .. your fingers know how to knit for example .. part of why yoga is so powerful perhaps ?
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    doug Sosa: so if i try to get into the 9 sec, it used to be i just went there, but at the moment i need to call Jeff tomorrow, and at the point of
    Pila Mulligan: can you sense when someone is looking at you
    doug Sosa: moving into the 9 sec.
    doug Sosa: some representation of him wants to come along, so i
    doug Sosa: don't forget to call..
    doug Sosa: yes, i can do that pretty well.
    Pila Mulligan: that relates to the calf sensing
    Paradise Tennant: ;) yes
    doug Sosa: (sense when looked at).how?
    doug Sosa: oops, confusing.
    doug Sosa: yes when looked
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    doug Sosa: how does the calf relate to the 9 sec?
    Pila Mulligan: similar in effect
    Pila Mulligan: obtaining balance is the effect
    stevenaia Michinaga: one calf, both calves?
    Pila Mulligan: one
    Paradise Tennant: ;))
    doug Sosa: I don't think i feel off balance, but balance is harder cause I am carrying two of us into 9 sec.
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    Pila Mulligan: double weighted :)?
    Pila Mulligan: in the tai chis snes
    Pila Mulligan: sense*
    stevenaia Michinaga: you mean one side fully weighted, the other not?
    Pila Mulligan: well, that is part of the practice, but the term has further meaning
    Pila Mulligan: you shift weight in tai chi to avoid being double weighted
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes
    doug Sosa: yes, double weight is something you only pass through, not stop.
    Pila Mulligan: similar to the calf :)
    Paradise Tennant: it works the muscles more
    stevenaia Michinaga: the constant shifting of your weight in Tai Chi?
    Paradise Tennant: *the
    Pila Mulligan: but you tarry there to let it pass
    Paradise Tennant: ? what pass
    Pila Mulligan: yo bene
    Benedizione Vita: hello
    Paradise Tennant: hiya bene :)
    Benedizione Vita: hello paradise
    Pila Mulligan: what they call the mutual influence
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise
    Paradise Tennant: what is mutual influence
    Pila Mulligan: :pardon me but ) ... what it sounds like :)
    Pila Mulligan: kissing may be an example
    Paradise Tennant: the mutual influences of your two legs
    Pila Mulligan: more so multiple people
    Pila Mulligan: kissing has a mutual influence :)
    doug Sosa: so, help me out Pila (and anyone). There I am with a new sense of lots of projects, and I try the 9 sec and find
    Paradise Tennant: it certainly does !
    doug Sosa: that some of those people in those projects are sort of with me, i can't let them go..
    doug Sosa: for the 9 sec.. cause..
    doug Sosa: it feels like I'll drop them, not just in mind but in RL.
    Pila Mulligan: their presence or influence is too intense to ignore them?
    doug Sosa: i think it is the fear of letting them down (interesting, vs "drop them."
    Pila Mulligan: just by pausing for a few seconds?
    doug Sosa: I must go prepare dinner. Apologies. Bye for now.
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye Dod
    Pila Mulligan: well, have a nice dinner
    stevenaia Michinaga: doug
    Paradise Tennant: good nite doug .. bon appetite ;)
    stevenaia Michinaga: one thing about taking 9 seconds away from a list or project.. you only delay it 9 seconds
    Paradise Tennant: sorry blinking still don't get where you are tarrying to let whatever mutual influence present pass
    Pila Mulligan: yes, it seems to brief to cause much harm
    Pila Mulligan: wherever I am at the time, Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: if that is the 'weher' you meant
    Benedizione Vita: I wonder whether a complete dropping
    Benedizione Vita: would be a timeless kind of thing
    Benedizione Vita: duration not being important in such a case
    Pila Mulligan: maybe ideally it would be
    Paradise Tennant: :) i think so .. the more complete the more timeless .. time is only perception too ..it we moved pass it .. ...
    Benedizione Vita: I am curious why you say that, paradise
    Paradise Tennant: well according to the buddhists it is just perception no different ..than the other phenomena ..
    Benedizione Vita: what about according to paradise? how does it seem to you?
    Paradise Tennant: not sure we have empirically defined it .. either .. listen to a great talk once on the radio that supposed time is more like spatial geography
    Paradise Tennant: a moment continues to exist even when our .. attention has moved on .. sort of like a hill
    Pila Mulligan: maybe the implication is that completeness is a timeless kind of thing
    Benedizione Vita: what do you mean by completeness, pila?
    Pila Mulligan: e.g. -- complete dropping
    Benedizione Vita: ah, complete dropping :)
    Benedizione Vita: of identity, in this case?
    Pila Mulligan: or maybe any situation where the balance of component parts is ultimate
    Pila Mulligan: not partial
    Benedizione Vita: what do you mean by balance?
    Pila Mulligan: depends on how identity works, I suppose
    Pila Mulligan: balance is the teeter totter
    Pila Mulligan: not to heavy on one side
    Pila Mulligan: too*
    stevenaia Michinaga: teeter totter of life?
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: in the playground of the Akashic Record
    Pila Mulligan: play*
    Paradise Tennant: akashic record ?
    Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records
    stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Paradise Tennant: wiki fiends
    Pila Mulligan: the Big Book
    Benedizione Vita: you shouldn't be reading that
    Benedizione Vita: it's in the adult section
    Benedizione Vita: hahaha ;^)
    Benedizione Vita: (the idea being that we are children in the eyes of the divine)
    Paradise Tennant: lol very adult indeed :)
    Pila Mulligan: it is consistent with the idea that a moment continues to exist even when our attention has moved on .
    Pila Mulligan: it is written, so to speak
    Benedizione Vita: brb
    Paradise Tennant: so our sitting here .. will stay in imprinted in the akasha (soniferous ether)
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: forever
    stevenaia Michinaga: and on the PaB Wiki
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: maybe not forever
    Pila Mulligan: the idea of a primary principle of nature that is the origin of all things is very Hindu
    Benedizione Vita: hindu how?
    Paradise Tennant: kind of an ego centric view .. must .. include the thoughts and actions of all sentient beings .. the dolphins have their own askasha :))
    Paradise Tennant: *akasha
    Pila Mulligan: well, especially compared with Buddhism, Hinduism seems more thorough in its mysticism
    Pila Mulligan: dolphins are akasha
    Pila Mulligan: just as are humans
    Paradise Tennant: ants too. even the stubborn .. ones :))
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    Paradise Tennant: doesn't know any unstubborn ants :)
    Pila Mulligan: they are purposeful critters
    Pila Mulligan: Paradise, did you have questions about the calf thing/
    Paradise Tennant: this is a great wiki .. blurb ..
    Pila Mulligan: I have a feeling your last question got glossed over by my answer
    Paradise Tennant: did not really get it .. blinks some more
    Pila Mulligan: what part do you not get?
    Pila Mulligan: tarrying is easy to see, isn't it
    Pila Mulligan: is is the clasf feeling?
    Pila Mulligan: calf*
    Paradise Tennant: talked about mutual influences something as simple as the interaction of moving your legs in a way that weights .. each separately in tai chi .. and being centered or balanced between steps ..
    Pila Mulligan: in its most obvious form the feeling is like someone tied a string around the middle of your calf, horizontally
    Pila Mulligan: the effect of not tarrying then it like walking forward with your shoelaces tied together, hobbled
    Paradise Tennant: going up vertically .. sort so you hang in balance
    Pila Mulligan: no sideways
    Pila Mulligan: like a leash
    Benedizione Vita: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1..._veto/lean.jpg
    Pila Mulligan: nice pic Bene
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Benedizione Vita: that takes a lot of tai chi, to do that ;)
    Pila Mulligan: yep
    Pila Mulligan: when you feel the string sense, just a few moments of tarrying will restore your balance
    Pila Mulligan: it is a timing kind of thing
    Paradise Tennant: so .. you tarry to restore your balance .. once you have extended ..it
    Pila Mulligan: to avoid extending it may be the same idea with less uncertainty
    Paradise Tennant: somehow .. relaxing into the extension .. brings you back to balance
    Pila Mulligan: balance would be extended if you ignored the need to tarry
    Paradise Tennant: so the gentleman in the photo is tarrying .. but not extended
    Pila Mulligan: the fello in the picture from Bene is vulneraboe to a flea landing on his shoulder :)
    Pila Mulligan: no he is extended
    Benedizione Vita: actually I think you might say he is invulnerable to any sort of harm, these days ;)
    Benedizione Vita: but his heels are actually locked in to the floor
    Benedizione Vita: in the picture
    Paradise Tennant: ;) tricky
    Pila Mulligan: the photo has value as an illustration though
    Pila Mulligan: it is an exaggeration of a common enough form of human posture
    Paradise Tennant: always find it interesting how much posture speaks of our lives :))
    Paradise Tennant: interesting study
    Benedizione Vita: http://spanish-translation-blog.span...h-computer.jpg
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go
    Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you for joining me
    Benedizione Vita: gnight
    Pila Mulligan: thank you
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve :)
    Paradise Tennant: great photo . bene :)
    Benedizione Vita: tankya
    Benedizione Vita: and now I too must slumber :)
    Benedizione Vita: gnight
    Pila Mulligan: bye Bene
    Paradise Tennant: nite nite bene :))
    Pila Mulligan: sleep well
    Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams
    Paradise Tennant: well pila shall we do a quick meditation .. do you have time ?
    Pila Mulligan: sure, but I like the calf toic and rarely get a chance to talk about it so if there's more interest on the subject on your part ....
    Paradise Tennant: sure
    Paradise Tennant: tarrying
    Pila Mulligan: do you think you get the idea of sensing the calf?
    Paradise Tennant: between .. balance points no
    Paradise Tennant: no do not get it
    Paradise Tennant: sensing the calf
    Pila Mulligan: a metaphor would be like walking past a kid with a pea shooter
    Pila Mulligan: as you go past him, he shoots a pea that hits you
    Pila Mulligan: just enough to feel it
    Paradise Tennant: in the calf ? lol
    Pila Mulligan: imagine the same kid is a really good cowboy using a string instead of a rope
    Pila Mulligan: yes, in the calf
    Pila Mulligan: he can throw the string so well it lassos your calf
    Pila Mulligan: but the string is ethereal, it exists for only a few seconds
    Pila Mulligan: so if you keep walking during those few seconds, it will over*extend your balance
    Paradise Tennant: it pulls you out of your centered balance
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Paradise Tennant: so you tarry to resist ..
    Pila Mulligan: but if you pause, the string dissolves
    Pila Mulligan: not to resist
    Pila Mulligan: to avoid the imbalance
    Paradise Tennant: ahh
    Paradise Tennant: kk
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: to be balance within and without
    Paradise Tennant: *balanced
    Paradise Tennant: internal and external
    Pila Mulligan: the signal that you waited appropriately is a similar feeling of mutual influence in the back of the neck
    Pila Mulligan: the you can proceed
    Pila Mulligan: yes, internal and external -- mutual
    Paradise Tennant: sorry
    Pila Mulligan: ? :)
    Paradise Tennant: i am tarrying .. i have an ethereal lassoe on my calf .. and I sense ..when to move forward by a feeling in the back of my neck ?
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Paradise Tennant: hmm
    Pila Mulligan: it is like the string sensation pulls at your attention
    Paradise Tennant: and you feel it on the back of your neck
    Pila Mulligan: when it has dissolved and your attention can resume its ordinary interests, the neck senses it
    Pila Mulligan: first you feel it in the calf
    Pila Mulligan: then by tarrying you will feel a sensation at the back of your neck
    Pila Mulligan: this is all very literal and actual, not iffy
    Paradise Tennant: why we get neck aches ..not enough tarrying ?
    Pila Mulligan: when you see it you really see it
    Pila Mulligan: yes, maybe
    Pila Mulligan: maybe for other reasons too
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Paradise Tennant: so you would know this physically more from the practice of tai chi
    Pila Mulligan: so this is why I call it a yogi balancing exercise
    Paradise Tennant: it would .. be an experiential understanding
    Pila Mulligan: yes, like tai chi
    Pila Mulligan: a felt experience
    Paradise Tennant: yes
    Pila Mulligan: but I think anyone can feel it if they pay attention
    Pila Mulligan: and I think PaB is a similar senitivzing exercise
    Pila Mulligan: sesitizing* ?
    Pila Mulligan: sense increase
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: making us more aware of our attention ..
    Pila Mulligan: yes
    Pila Mulligan: not just mental too
    Pila Mulligan: but a physical timing kind of thing
    Paradise Tennant: yes always thing your whole body is your brain
    Pila Mulligan: I agree
    Paradise Tennant: *think
    Pila Mulligan: your sense are not limited to the cranium
    Pila Mulligan: are you familiar with the I Ching?
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. i know of it but have never read it
    Pila Mulligan: this calf-neck thing comes from Chapter 31 of the I Ching, the chapter is named Mutual Influence (in the Wilhelm translation)
    Paradise Tennant: took tai chi lessons one winter.. we spent 10 minutes doing foot massages .. specific .. warm up .. massages just for your feet
    Paradise Tennant: the teacher believed .. most of your body systems worked through the feet
    Pila Mulligan: I agree
    Paradise Tennant: it was interesting ..
    Pila Mulligan: foot massage is wonderfully therapeutic
    Pila Mulligan: and there are tons of old chinese yogas associated with the feet
    Paradise Tennant: before I fall asleep I usually give the dog a tip of the nose to a tip of the tail massage say five minutes .. i start by rubbing his paws .. always think it is good for him hard when you just have paws
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: ep
    Pila Mulligan: do you brush him too
    Pila Mulligan: yep*
    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Pila Mulligan: I bet he is one happy dog, but might also like a brushing :)
    Paradise Tennant: he goes and gets groomed every six weeks so his coat is fairly short
    Pila Mulligan: :0
    Paradise Tennant: hates being groomed
    Paradise Tennant: have to carry him in
    Paradise Tennant: but otherwise .. his fur turns to felt .. it is hair not fur
    Pila Mulligan: so is this dog expecting you soon?
    Paradise Tennant: :))
    Pila Mulligan: mediation time Fido?
    Paradise Tennant: yes .. slumped down on the floor .. waiting for his walk
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Paradise Tennant: woof woof
    Paradise Tennant: :)
    Pila Mulligan: tell him Uncle Pila will not keep him tarrying to long
    Paradise Tennant: :)) lol
    Pila Mulligan: but, how about ten minutes tonite?
    Paradise Tennant: okies
    Pila Mulligan: so 8:22 to 8:30 -- gong
    Pila Mulligan: 8:32*
    Paradise Tennant: liked to talk to you about . relative continuous reality some times struggling with some of my rl buddhist class teachings
    Paradise Tennant: kk
    Pila Mulligan: ok, but not now?
    Paradise Tennant: nope
    Pila Mulligan: ok
    Paradise Tennant: another night
    Pila Mulligan: gong gong
    Pila Mulligan: un-gong :)
    Paradise Tennant: ;))) thank you pila ..
    Pila Mulligan: restful
    Pila Mulligan: thank you Paradise
    Pila Mulligan: have a nice evening walk and sleep well
    Paradise Tennant: going to scoot ..off to walk the dog .. clean up the kitchen and pile into bed .. you too !
    Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
    Paradise Tennant: aloha'oe :)))
    Pila Mulligan: byue
    Pila Mulligan: Hey!
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