2009.09.03 19:00 - Tarry

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Doug
doug Sosa: hi steve :)
stevenaia Michinaga: how are things in Ca, fire's near you?
doug Sosa: no, way south. we are north of san francisco. beautiful day. that has been really hard down there.
doug Sosa: i think i forgot, whre on this planet are you?
stevenaia Michinaga: Eastern Pennsylvania
doug Sosa: like phily?
stevenaia Michinaga: about 50 miles north
doug Sosa: ah on the what is it chester line?
doug Sosa: grandparents used to live in germantown
stevenaia Michinaga: the "Main Line"
stevenaia Michinaga: Not near that
doug Sosa: isn't there another "line" that begins with C
stevenaia Michinaga: I'm north of that quite a bit
stevenaia Michinaga: north of Bucks County
doug Sosa: ah, way up..
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Steve and Doug
doug Sosa: For Pab stuff, I've been thinking a bit about what happens to the RL - mind space when one has lots of projects or people to track, howe we try to
doug Sosa: hold them in mind
doug Sosa: hi pila
stevenaia Michinaga: The weather has changed dramatically here, much cooler, and things in general have taken a quicker pace since August for me
doug Sosa: we hold them in mind in order to deal with them is rl. i've got enough now that it feels new, like my mind is like too
stevenaia Michinaga: but the Pab mind stays with me :)
doug Sosa: many things in my zipper bag..
Pila Mulligan: my mind ran out of room long ago, I us lists :)
Pila Mulligan: use lists*
stevenaia Michinaga: seems easier to walk away from a full plate for a moment that to work things in to an empty schedule
stevenaia Michinaga: *Than
doug Sosa: so when you go to 9 sec do the lists disappears?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, it does for me
Pila Mulligan: they only appear when I settle into doing them :0
doug Sosa: :)
Pila Mulligan: but I am half-retired
Pila Mulligan: lucky to have less pressing stuff
doug Sosa: exploring the experience, i find that it used to easy to get into the 9 sec, but now as I start i am afraid i will drop somebody.
doug Sosa: and the somebody is both in mind and in rl. strange.
stevenaia Michinaga: brb
Pila Mulligan: me too, brb
doug Sosa: lists call :)
Pila Mulligan: back
Pila Mulligan: getting a snack :)
Pila Mulligan: Doug, I don't do the 9 sec practice the usual PaB way
doug Sosa: and.. :) How?
Pila Mulligan: i had a similar pre-existing practice that I now see in relation to PaB
stevenaia Michinaga: back
Pila Mulligan: you may appreciate it in relation to tai chi
Pila Mulligan: wb Steve
doug Sosa: please..
Pila Mulligan: there are some very arcane old Chinese yoga, as you probably know
Pila Mulligan: this one involves influences on the body -- particularly when an influence is felt in the calf
doug Sosa: continue..:)
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: the idea is that upon feeling that influence, to tarry in order not to lose balance
Pila Mulligan: I sense the need to do so several times a day, it usually results in 5-10 seconds of tarrying each time
Pila Mulligan: oops
doug Sosa: calf?
Pila Mulligan: lower leg
doug Sosa: ok, any piece of bodily tension takes you into some 9 sec like equivalent?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Paradise
Pila Mulligan: hi Paradise
doug Sosa: ah paradise :)
Pila Mulligan: no, just at the calf :)
doug Sosa: so pila make the connection for me between the calf noticing an PaB.
Pila Mulligan: well, I had been doing the calf-noticing/tarry for at least 20 years before finding PaB -- and saw some similarity in the pause
Pila Mulligan: the idea for me is yogic balance
Pila Mulligan: physical more than mental
Pila Mulligan: and both seem to do that
Paradise Tennant: hmm we store memories in our muscle tissue .. your fingers know how to knit for example .. part of why yoga is so powerful perhaps ?
Pila Mulligan: :0
doug Sosa: so if i try to get into the 9 sec, it used to be i just went there, but at the moment i need to call Jeff tomorrow, and at the point of
Pila Mulligan: can you sense when someone is looking at you
doug Sosa: moving into the 9 sec.
doug Sosa: some representation of him wants to come along, so i
doug Sosa: don't forget to call..
doug Sosa: yes, i can do that pretty well.
Pila Mulligan: that relates to the calf sensing
Paradise Tennant: ;) yes
doug Sosa: (sense when looked at).how?
doug Sosa: oops, confusing.
doug Sosa: yes when looked
Pila Mulligan: :)
doug Sosa: how does the calf relate to the 9 sec?
Pila Mulligan: similar in effect
Pila Mulligan: obtaining balance is the effect
stevenaia Michinaga: one calf, both calves?
Pila Mulligan: one
Paradise Tennant: ;))
doug Sosa: I don't think i feel off balance, but balance is harder cause I am carrying two of us into 9 sec.
Pila Mulligan: :0
Pila Mulligan: double weighted :)?
Pila Mulligan: in the tai chis snes
Pila Mulligan: sense*
stevenaia Michinaga: you mean one side fully weighted, the other not?
Pila Mulligan: well, that is part of the practice, but the term has further meaning
Pila Mulligan: you shift weight in tai chi to avoid being double weighted
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
doug Sosa: yes, double weight is something you only pass through, not stop.
Pila Mulligan: similar to the calf :)
Paradise Tennant: it works the muscles more
stevenaia Michinaga: the constant shifting of your weight in Tai Chi?
Paradise Tennant: *the
Pila Mulligan: but you tarry there to let it pass
Paradise Tennant: ? what pass
Pila Mulligan: yo bene
Benedizione Vita: hello
Paradise Tennant: hiya bene :)
Benedizione Vita: hello paradise
Pila Mulligan: what they call the mutual influence
Pila Mulligan: Paradise
Paradise Tennant: what is mutual influence
Pila Mulligan: :pardon me but ) ... what it sounds like :)
Pila Mulligan: kissing may be an example
Paradise Tennant: the mutual influences of your two legs
Pila Mulligan: more so multiple people
Pila Mulligan: kissing has a mutual influence :)
doug Sosa: so, help me out Pila (and anyone). There I am with a new sense of lots of projects, and I try the 9 sec and find
Paradise Tennant: it certainly does !
doug Sosa: that some of those people in those projects are sort of with me, i can't let them go..
--BELL--
doug Sosa: for the 9 sec.. cause..
doug Sosa: it feels like I'll drop them, not just in mind but in RL.
Pila Mulligan: their presence or influence is too intense to ignore them?
doug Sosa: i think it is the fear of letting them down (interesting, vs "drop them."
Pila Mulligan: just by pausing for a few seconds?
doug Sosa: I must go prepare dinner. Apologies. Bye for now.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Dod
Pila Mulligan: well, have a nice dinner
stevenaia Michinaga: doug
Paradise Tennant: good nite doug .. bon appetite ;)
stevenaia Michinaga: one thing about taking 9 seconds away from a list or project.. you only delay it 9 seconds
Paradise Tennant: sorry blinking still don't get where you are tarrying to let whatever mutual influence present pass
Pila Mulligan: yes, it seems to brief to cause much harm
Pila Mulligan: wherever I am at the time, Paradise
Pila Mulligan: if that is the 'weher' you meant
Benedizione Vita: I wonder whether a complete dropping
Benedizione Vita: would be a timeless kind of thing
Benedizione Vita: duration not being important in such a case
Pila Mulligan: maybe ideally it would be
Paradise Tennant: :) i think so .. the more complete the more timeless .. time is only perception too ..it we moved pass it .. ...
Benedizione Vita: I am curious why you say that, paradise
Paradise Tennant: well according to the buddhists it is just perception no different ..than the other phenomena ..
Benedizione Vita: what about according to paradise? how does it seem to you?
Paradise Tennant: not sure we have empirically defined it .. either .. listen to a great talk once on the radio that supposed time is more like spatial geography
Paradise Tennant: a moment continues to exist even when our .. attention has moved on .. sort of like a hill
Pila Mulligan: maybe the implication is that completeness is a timeless kind of thing
Benedizione Vita: what do you mean by completeness, pila?
Pila Mulligan: e.g. -- complete dropping
Benedizione Vita: ah, complete dropping :)
Benedizione Vita: of identity, in this case?
Pila Mulligan: or maybe any situation where the balance of component parts is ultimate
Pila Mulligan: not partial
Benedizione Vita: what do you mean by balance?
Pila Mulligan: depends on how identity works, I suppose
Pila Mulligan: balance is the teeter totter
Pila Mulligan: not to heavy on one side
Pila Mulligan: too*
stevenaia Michinaga: teeter totter of life?
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: in the playground of the Akashic Record
Pila Mulligan: play*
Paradise Tennant: akashic record ?
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akashic_records
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Paradise Tennant: wiki fiends
Pila Mulligan: the Big Book
Benedizione Vita: you shouldn't be reading that
Benedizione Vita: it's in the adult section
Benedizione Vita: hahaha ;^)
Benedizione Vita: (the idea being that we are children in the eyes of the divine)
Paradise Tennant: lol very adult indeed :)
Pila Mulligan: it is consistent with the idea that a moment continues to exist even when our attention has moved on .
Pila Mulligan: it is written, so to speak
Benedizione Vita: brb
Paradise Tennant: so our sitting here .. will stay in imprinted in the akasha (soniferous ether)
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: forever
stevenaia Michinaga: and on the PaB Wiki
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: maybe not forever
Pila Mulligan: the idea of a primary principle of nature that is the origin of all things is very Hindu
Benedizione Vita: hindu how?
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: kind of an ego centric view .. must .. include the thoughts and actions of all sentient beings .. the dolphins have their own askasha :))
Paradise Tennant: *akasha
Pila Mulligan: well, especially compared with Buddhism, Hinduism seems more thorough in its mysticism
Pila Mulligan: dolphins are akasha
Pila Mulligan: just as are humans
Paradise Tennant: ants too. even the stubborn .. ones :))
Pila Mulligan: :0
Paradise Tennant: doesn't know any unstubborn ants :)
Pila Mulligan: they are purposeful critters
Pila Mulligan: Paradise, did you have questions about the calf thing/
Paradise Tennant: this is a great wiki .. blurb ..
Pila Mulligan: I have a feeling your last question got glossed over by my answer
Paradise Tennant: did not really get it .. blinks some more
Pila Mulligan: what part do you not get?
Pila Mulligan: tarrying is easy to see, isn't it
Pila Mulligan: is is the clasf feeling?
Pila Mulligan: calf*
Paradise Tennant: talked about mutual influences something as simple as the interaction of moving your legs in a way that weights .. each separately in tai chi .. and being centered or balanced between steps ..
Pila Mulligan: in its most obvious form the feeling is like someone tied a string around the middle of your calf, horizontally
Pila Mulligan: the effect of not tarrying then it like walking forward with your shoelaces tied together, hobbled
Paradise Tennant: going up vertically .. sort so you hang in balance
Pila Mulligan: no sideways
Pila Mulligan: like a leash
Benedizione Vita: http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a1..._veto/lean.jpg
Pila Mulligan: nice pic Bene
Pila Mulligan: :)
Benedizione Vita: that takes a lot of tai chi, to do that ;)
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: when you feel the string sense, just a few moments of tarrying will restore your balance
Pila Mulligan: it is a timing kind of thing
Paradise Tennant: so .. you tarry to restore your balance .. once you have extended ..it
Pila Mulligan: to avoid extending it may be the same idea with less uncertainty
Paradise Tennant: somehow .. relaxing into the extension .. brings you back to balance
Pila Mulligan: balance would be extended if you ignored the need to tarry
Paradise Tennant: so the gentleman in the photo is tarrying .. but not extended
Pila Mulligan: the fello in the picture from Bene is vulneraboe to a flea landing on his shoulder :)
Pila Mulligan: no he is extended
Benedizione Vita: actually I think you might say he is invulnerable to any sort of harm, these days ;)
Benedizione Vita: but his heels are actually locked in to the floor
Benedizione Vita: in the picture
Paradise Tennant: ;) tricky
Pila Mulligan: the photo has value as an illustration though
Pila Mulligan: it is an exaggeration of a common enough form of human posture
Paradise Tennant: always find it interesting how much posture speaks of our lives :))
Paradise Tennant: interesting study
Benedizione Vita: http://spanish-translation-blog.span...h-computer.jpg
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you for joining me
Benedizione Vita: gnight
Pila Mulligan: thank you
Paradise Tennant: nite nite steve :)
Paradise Tennant: great photo . bene :)
Benedizione Vita: tankya
Benedizione Vita: and now I too must slumber :)
Benedizione Vita: gnight
Pila Mulligan: bye Bene
Paradise Tennant: nite nite bene :))
Pila Mulligan: sleep well
Paradise Tennant: sweet dreams
Paradise Tennant: well pila shall we do a quick meditation .. do you have time ?
Pila Mulligan: sure, but I like the calf toic and rarely get a chance to talk about it so if there's more interest on the subject on your part ....
Paradise Tennant: sure
Paradise Tennant: tarrying
Pila Mulligan: do you think you get the idea of sensing the calf?
Paradise Tennant: between .. balance points no
Paradise Tennant: no do not get it
Paradise Tennant: sensing the calf
Pila Mulligan: a metaphor would be like walking past a kid with a pea shooter
Pila Mulligan: as you go past him, he shoots a pea that hits you
Pila Mulligan: just enough to feel it
Paradise Tennant: in the calf ? lol
Pila Mulligan: imagine the same kid is a really good cowboy using a string instead of a rope
Pila Mulligan: yes, in the calf
Pila Mulligan: he can throw the string so well it lassos your calf
Pila Mulligan: but the string is ethereal, it exists for only a few seconds
Pila Mulligan: so if you keep walking during those few seconds, it will over*extend your balance
Paradise Tennant: it pulls you out of your centered balance
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: so you tarry to resist ..
Pila Mulligan: but if you pause, the string dissolves
Pila Mulligan: not to resist
Pila Mulligan: to avoid the imbalance
Paradise Tennant: ahh
Paradise Tennant: kk
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: to be balance within and without
Paradise Tennant: *balanced
Paradise Tennant: internal and external
Pila Mulligan: the signal that you waited appropriately is a similar feeling of mutual influence in the back of the neck
Pila Mulligan: the you can proceed
Pila Mulligan: yes, internal and external -- mutual
Paradise Tennant: sorry
Pila Mulligan: ? :)
Paradise Tennant: i am tarrying .. i have an ethereal lassoe on my calf .. and I sense ..when to move forward by a feeling in the back of my neck ?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Pila Mulligan: it is like the string sensation pulls at your attention
Paradise Tennant: and you feel it on the back of your neck
Pila Mulligan: when it has dissolved and your attention can resume its ordinary interests, the neck senses it
Pila Mulligan: first you feel it in the calf
Pila Mulligan: then by tarrying you will feel a sensation at the back of your neck
Pila Mulligan: this is all very literal and actual, not iffy
Paradise Tennant: why we get neck aches ..not enough tarrying ?
Pila Mulligan: when you see it you really see it
Pila Mulligan: yes, maybe
Pila Mulligan: maybe for other reasons too
Paradise Tennant: :)
Paradise Tennant: so you would know this physically more from the practice of tai chi
Pila Mulligan: so this is why I call it a yogi balancing exercise
Paradise Tennant: it would .. be an experiential understanding
Pila Mulligan: yes, like tai chi
Pila Mulligan: a felt experience
Paradise Tennant: yes
Pila Mulligan: but I think anyone can feel it if they pay attention
Pila Mulligan: and I think PaB is a similar senitivzing exercise
Pila Mulligan: sesitizing* ?
Pila Mulligan: sense increase
Paradise Tennant: :))
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: making us more aware of our attention ..
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: not just mental too
Pila Mulligan: but a physical timing kind of thing
Paradise Tennant: yes always thing your whole body is your brain
Pila Mulligan: I agree
Paradise Tennant: *think
Pila Mulligan: your sense are not limited to the cranium
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: are you familiar with the I Ching?
Paradise Tennant: yes .. i know of it but have never read it
Pila Mulligan: this calf-neck thing comes from Chapter 31 of the I Ching, the chapter is named Mutual Influence (in the Wilhelm translation)
Paradise Tennant: took tai chi lessons one winter.. we spent 10 minutes doing foot massages .. specific .. warm up .. massages just for your feet
Paradise Tennant: the teacher believed .. most of your body systems worked through the feet
Pila Mulligan: I agree
Paradise Tennant: it was interesting ..
Pila Mulligan: foot massage is wonderfully therapeutic
Pila Mulligan: and there are tons of old chinese yogas associated with the feet
Paradise Tennant: before I fall asleep I usually give the dog a tip of the nose to a tip of the tail massage say five minutes .. i start by rubbing his paws .. always think it is good for him hard when you just have paws
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: ep
Pila Mulligan: do you brush him too
Pila Mulligan: yep*
Paradise Tennant: nope
Pila Mulligan: I bet he is one happy dog, but might also like a brushing :)
Paradise Tennant: he goes and gets groomed every six weeks so his coat is fairly short
Pila Mulligan: :0
Paradise Tennant: hates being groomed
Paradise Tennant: have to carry him in
Paradise Tennant: but otherwise .. his fur turns to felt .. it is hair not fur
Pila Mulligan: so is this dog expecting you soon?
Paradise Tennant: :))
Pila Mulligan: mediation time Fido?
Paradise Tennant: yes .. slumped down on the floor .. waiting for his walk
Pila Mulligan: :)
Paradise Tennant: woof woof
Paradise Tennant: :)
Pila Mulligan: tell him Uncle Pila will not keep him tarrying to long
Paradise Tennant: :)) lol
Pila Mulligan: but, how about ten minutes tonite?
Paradise Tennant: okies
Pila Mulligan: so 8:22 to 8:30 -- gong
Pila Mulligan: 8:32*
Paradise Tennant: liked to talk to you about . relative continuous reality some times struggling with some of my rl buddhist class teachings
Paradise Tennant: kk
Pila Mulligan: ok, but not now?
Paradise Tennant: nope
Pila Mulligan: ok
Paradise Tennant: another night
Pila Mulligan: gong gong
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: un-gong :)
Paradise Tennant: ;))) thank you pila ..
Pila Mulligan: restful
Pila Mulligan: thank you Paradise
Pila Mulligan: have a nice evening walk and sleep well
Paradise Tennant: going to scoot ..off to walk the dog .. clean up the kitchen and pile into bed .. you too !
Pila Mulligan: aloha `oe
Paradise Tennant: aloha'oe :)))
Pila Mulligan: byue
Pila Mulligan: Hey!