2009.09.06 07:00 - Uncluttering and then...

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble. There were a number new people and they either left after the introduction or I never ascertained whether they were actually new of not.

Eos Amaterasu: Hi Paul, Rhymer, Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Paul, Rhymer and Eos :)
Rhymer Karu: Greets.
Paul Namiboo: Hi all, seems a bit slow this morning
Adams Rubble: Paul and Rhymer, i have not met you. Have you been here before?
Paul Namiboo: Yes, but this is an unusual time for me
Adams Rubble: nice to meet you
Rhymer Karu: No, first time.
Adams Rubble: Welcome to Play as Being then Rhymer
Paul Namiboo: Nice to meet you too -- I'm on the west coast getting up early to prepare for a trip to Europe
Rhymer Karu: Thank you.
Adams Rubble: I will give you a notecard that tells a bit about us
Eos Amaterasu: Crashed
Bertram Jacobus: hello all ... :-)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Bert
Adams Rubble: The group meets here four times a day, partly to discuss our practiceof stopping every fifteen minutes for nine seconds
Paul Namiboo: Hi Bertram
Adams Rubble: to help see what we are and what we are doing
Adams Rubble: Hello Bertram :)
Bertram Jacobus: nice explanation adams :-)
Bertram Jacobus: [and paul is still drinking, but now with the glass upside up] ... ;-)
Paul Namiboo: It was a gift of virtual 1945 Chateau Mouton from Pila -- I drink all day and never get a hangover!
Adams Rubble: good for you Paul :)
Bertram Jacobus: lol i see ;-)
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Paul Namiboo: Morning Doug:)
Bertram Jacobus: and hello eliza :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Paul, Bertram, Eos, Adams :)
Eos Amaterasu: HI Elia!
Eos Amaterasu: Eliza
Bertram Jacobus: doug ? :-)
Eos Amaterasu: & Doug
Bertram Jacobus: whaow - paul greetings came before him here ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi doug
Adams Rubble: Hello Doug
Bertram Jacobus: hi doug ;-)
doug Sosa: hi:)

I begin by saying I feel cluttered

Adams Rubble: I have been feeling very cluttered this morning
Adams Rubble: Work is cluttered
Adams Rubble: SL is cluttered
Adams Rubble: the house is cluttered
Adams Rubble: and my dreams last night were cluttered
Bertram Jacobus: how does it come ? why may that be ? ...
Adams Rubble: Some of it is external droiving me
Adams Rubble: maybe the external stuff is making realize I've cluttred up the rest
doug Sosa: clutter comes from clot as in blood or cheese making
Eliza Madrigal: there are ideas as to why people clutter their lives... whether to have a sense of solidity or safety...
Paul Namiboo: I didn't know that -- I hope my blood is in better shape than my office
Adams Rubble: do you think I may be eaasting too much cheese Doug?
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Adams Rubble: Hello Qt :)
Bertram Jacobus: hello qt ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: HiQt
doug Sosa: no just stuff is conjealing around you. :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Paul Namiboo: Hi arrivals!
doug Sosa: :)
Adams Rubble: Is it just a question of stuff sticking?
Adams Rubble: We seem to collect responsibiloities
Eos Amaterasu: No poofing?
Eos Amaterasu: Not poofiing
doug Sosa: my guress is clutter is things which have lost ther intent.
Eliza Madrigal: yes that's an interesting idea
Adams Rubble: hmm. nice point Doug :)
Eliza Madrigal: stuff kept for 'someday' 'just in case'
Adams Rubble: so we feel it when we are going through changes maybe
Paul Namiboo: Then why can't we unclutter easier?
Eos Amaterasu: Like a Go stone that has lost its "aji"
Eos Amaterasu: "life"
doug Sosa: its like the stuff a high tide leaves behind. it becomes immobile and requires real effort to get rid of.
doug Sosa: of eos, perfect.
doug Sosa: oh eos..
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: Sorry, what is a go stone and what is aji?
Adams Rubble: and yes, Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: In the game of Go you put stones on intersections of a 19x19 board
Eos Amaterasu: idea is to get territory
Eos Amaterasu: you can put stones in seemingly random places, they are said to have "aji"
Eos Amaterasu: because in a later situation they could be crucial
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, neat. 'seemingly random'... potential
Eos Amaterasu: if stuff loses sense of life it becomes clutter
Adams Rubble: Thank you Eos, yes this is becoming clearer
Eos Amaterasu: maybe it needs to be eaten by more life, like shorelines stuff left by tides
doug Sosa: very intersting to think of things as moves in go. We probably make the beginners mistake of keeping things too close to have real life.
Adams Rubble: I winder if the issue is not so much "how" to remove ckutter then as our inability to lwt it go
Adams Rubble: Hello Cleo
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cleo
Bertram Jacobus: hi cleo ... :-)
Adams Rubble: Welcome to Olay as Being Celo. Is this your first time?
Adams Rubble: Play
Paul Namiboo: One of the terrible things is an inability to let go of things that you imagine one day will be very important again in your life
Adams Rubble: I will give you a notecard then about us
Eos Amaterasu has a basement full of that kind of stuff :-)
Eliza Madrigal: yes... things that are steps removed from application and yet you must maintain them...put energy into them
Paul Namiboo: Hi Cleo, sorry I was distracted....
Eos Amaterasu: Maybe also we pay all the attention to the thing, and not to the whole process of how it arrives, and how it goes off
Eos Amaterasu: we had a dinner party last night
Eos Amaterasu: the prep was as much part of the party as the party proper
Paul Namiboo: When we moved into an aaprtment we had to give away ~9000 books -- I thought it was a disaster, but it turns out about 8956 of them were actually clutter
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: ditto cleanup (to lesser extent :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Paul Namiboo: depends on who you are cleaning up with
Eos Amaterasu: even alone can be okay
Eliza Madrigal: yes tht's an interesting idea Eos...that we section off our lives arbitraily sometimes
Eliza Madrigal: *arbitrarily
Paul Namiboo: it can be a great time to think, just like swimming
Eos Amaterasu: appreciating arising, presence, exiting of appearance :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Agreed, Paul :)
Adams Rubble: It takes a big effort to get rid of clutter like 8956 books
Eliza Madrigal: It also takes ruthlessness
Eliza Madrigal: determination
Adams Rubble: sometimes it is hard just to think about the effort
Eliza Madrigal: a 'deciding force'
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eos Amaterasu: clutter also distracts.... jump from one thing to another to another, can't see the space
Adams Rubble: yes Eos, maybe that is what i am feeling this morning
Eliza Madrigal: a desire to be free of it... so a taste of something else maybe... like... "If I didn't have this big of a house to tend, I could travel more"
Eos Amaterasu: (such as to Malta :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
doug Sosa: maybe we keep clutter because it is a kind of memorybank.
Adams Rubble: yes, we do that
Paul Namiboo: the web certainly has replaced many of my books, but there's so much disinformation on it I fear for young people who don't have the filters
Bertram Jacobus: i think we are overfflooded by impressions nowadays and it is here and there difficult to let all these nice things go ...
Eliza Madrigal: I listened to an Eckhart Tolle clip the other day... "When you are looking at the past, you are looking at it now... there's no where else you can really go" hehe
Adams Rubble: :)
Paul Namiboo: :)
Bertram Jacobus: media education would be very important paul ...
doug Sosa: as we knowin PaB the time distinctions are a bit arbitray.
doug Sosa: arbitrary
--BELL--
Paul Namiboo: Got to go and pack -- hope I'll manage to join from the road -- bye and thanks!
Bertram Jacobus: [bye paul]
doug Sosa: bye
doug Sosa: me too, not to pack, but to get rid of some clutter. :)
Bertram Jacobus: [bye doug]
Eliza Madrigal: (Bye Paul and doug)
Adams Rubble: bye Paul and Doug
Eliza Madrigal: I don't keep a lot for myself, but for my kids... oh my... I keep so much for them
Eliza Madrigal: I think I figure that just because it may be 'my thing' not to hold on to much, I should let them decide
Adams Rubble: yes, that is one reason we collect and keep stuff
Adams Rubble: In my experience, they are not so great at getting around to deciding :)
Eliza Madrigal: and some people are amazing with what they manage to make of their memory items...quilts, etc
Bertram Jacobus: nice idae eliza but nevertheless we are in the role to decide some things for our kids too ...
Adams Rubble: should sat not so swift in deciding
Adams Rubble: say
Eliza Madrigal: Yes...early on I was in a bit of trouble... would donate things a lot
Eliza Madrigal: and they would see a video or picture and say "HEeyyyy where did that go?"
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: They became a little paranoid... hiding things from me
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Adams Rubble: Santa took it while here last Christmas
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: But at some point I had to say to them that if they wanted to keep things, they had to maintain them... not me :)
Bertram Jacobus: santa gives, santa takes , just like being ... (?) :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Eos Amaterasu: that's maybe part of it - we have too many somewhat indestructible things, that don't get eaten or pulled apart by other beings
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think so... interesting point
Adams Rubble: we need more powerful dust mites :)
Eliza Madrigal: we have so much packaging
Eos Amaterasu: maybe we should have giant pet amoebas :-)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Qt Core: rl calls away... as usual ;-( bye
Adams Rubble: bye Qt
Bertram Jacobus: i´ll leave - came back from a little journey. have still to put things in my fridge and so on ... have a good time and ty all
Adams Rubble: bye Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bert, Qt
Eos Amaterasu: bye bert & qt
Eliza Madrigal: It has to be about our life energy.... the "aji"...
Eliza Madrigal: circulation
Adams Rubble: It is wonderful how we can come to PaB with something on our minds and get such help from our firends :)
Eos Amaterasu: our friends have "aji"
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed :)
Eliza Madrigal: And interesting that at times we can pull a topic out of a hat, but it speaks to us on different applicable levels
Adams Rubble: Hello Neela :)
Eliza Madrigal: like for me, today 'clutter' has to do with the kitchen... very inefficient.. why it takes so much time to put things away, etc.
Neela Blaisdale: Hi eevryone
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Neela
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Neela :)
Neela Blaisdale: Hello everybody
Eliza Madrigal: Long time no see
Adams Rubble: Maybe is the amount of use it is getting Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: yes that is certainly part of it
Neela Blaisdale: Just wanted to stop by for a few minutes, can't stay long but missed everyone!
Adams Rubble: Very good to see you Neela :)
Eliza Madrigal: How've you been Neela?
Neela Blaisdale: Flying ( so to speak ) around....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Neela Blaisdale: visitng schols with one child and bringing the other one back...

At this point Archmage, Fael, Abbis and Ludwig arrive one after another and sit on the opposite side facing us

Adams Rubble: Hello Archmage
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Archmage
Neela Blaisdale: and crying along the way about their going:)
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Archmage, is this your first time here?
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Archmage
Adams Rubble: oh yes, Neela, that is part of it
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch
Adams Rubble: Hello fael :)
Eliza Madrigal: Oh goodness Neela..yes
Archmage Atlantis: it is always my first time here
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael :)
Neela Blaisdale: Hi Fael:)
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: haha Arch
Eos Amaterasu: :-)
Fael Illyar: Hi Eos, Adams, Neela, Eliza :)

Archmage comments about land reform

Archmage Atlantis: So Pema has cut the budget.....guardians have no free space... correct?
Eos Amaterasu: thnx, Fael :-)
Eos Amaterasu: A lot of land is being let go - Pema was paying for it out of pocket
Adams Rubble: Pema has reduced his contribution to sustaining our activities
Eos Amaterasu: On other hand idea of village to live, play in seems great
Eliza Madrigal: yes, it has to do with grants, and how generous that he'd kept it going all this time
Eliza Madrigal: yes Eos, that does seem great too :)
Fael Illyar: the lands PaB has had have long been much more than necessary :)
Archmage Atlantis: It, my friends, has to do with your commitment to this concept
Neela Blaisdale: I believe there will still be land in Bieup and Baikun for guardian plots but I gathered from the emails, we're talking about purchasing some of the existing plots in Mungwha
Fael Illyar: I'm surprised we've had them for this lon
Fael Illyar: *long
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: I find it difficult to call PaB a concept
Neela Blaisdale: yes Pema has put an unbelieveable amount of resources into our community
Fael Illyar: Mugunhwa and Buyeo is very valuable land. Being oceanfront
Eliza Madrigal: I guess it applies... the word 'concept' but Hmmm
Eos Amaterasu: PaB is a calling, perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: vision? Certainly for me it people now
Neela Blaisdale: community?
Eliza Madrigal: It is
Eliza Madrigal: yes...community
Neela Blaisdale: way og being?
Eliza Madrigal: calling fits too...resonates
Neela Blaisdale: *f
Neela Blaisdale: hehe
Adams Rubble: The land has sustained our activities. While it is not fair to Pema to support all that, the land has served us well and we will be said to see it go
Adams Rubble: sad not aid
Adams Rubble: said
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eos Amaterasu: Village suggests, like RL retreat, a place where people can be with sense of PaB presence, in more ordinary way
Adams Rubble: It may have been underutilized but it was used
Eos Amaterasu: (with a little help from smart furniture, perhaps :-)
Archmage Atlantis: The herd shall be thinned
Eliza Madrigal: hah Eos
Fael Illyar: Personally, I like the idea of a village for guardians more than huts scattered all over
Eos Amaterasu: Fael, we could have a PaB cafe table
Eos Amaterasu: that has various options similar to pavilion
Eliza Madrigal: I like both... but yes there's something nice about everyone waking up in pajamas and wandering out to the fire
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Adams Rubble: It is an opportunity for each of us to examine our own activities maybe
Eos Amaterasu needs to get pajamas
Neela Blaisdale: yes having a village of all of us in one place may make sense....
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha...yes please
Eliza Madrigal: seems appropriate ;-)
Fael Illyar: Hi Abbis :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Abbis :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Abbis
Abbis Salamander: hi Fael, Arch and Fael
Neela Blaisdale: but its amazing how attached we are to our exisitng "homes":)
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Abbis
Abbis Salamander: hi Adams
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Abbis
Eliza Madrigal: Adams, I think that's a great point... an opportunity to examine
Abbis Salamander: hello to all the other as well
Fael Illyar: Hi Lud :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Ludwig :0
Adams Rubble: :)
Neela Blaisdale: Hi Ludwig
ludwig Melodie: namaste all
Eliza Madrigal: Settings and 'stuff' can be useful tools... but I guess it is important to know it isn't the 'point' mainly?
Adams Rubble: Ludwig and Abbis have you been ehere before?
Neela Blaisdale: hmm.. yes I suppose we can get too attached... to our physical homes...
Eliza Madrigal: When a hurricans approaches, or a fire... it becomes about what is essential...yes indeed Neela
Neela Blaisdale: physical as in SL...
Neela Blaisdale: I suppose in RL too:)
Eliza Madrigal: yes..even to our 'avs'... though funny to call them physical too
Neela Blaisdale: yes:)
Archmage Atlantis: When the mustard seed is sown, the plant grows, then is sown again
Abbis Salamander: no this is first time, just getting a updating from a friend, smiles
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Ludwig, we record our conversations here, do you have any objections
Adams Rubble: whoops Abbis :)
ludwig Melodie: non
--BELL--
Adams Rubble: I will give each of you a notecard
Archmage Atlantis: Adams. Abbis was hee
Adams Rubble: welcome to you both Ludwig and Abbis
Adams Rubble: ohhh
Adams Rubble: OK
Archmage Atlantis: Why address Ludwit
Archmage Atlantis: Ludwig
Adams Rubble: Anyway I have to go
Adams Rubble: Have a good day or evening everyone

I left here at the end of the hour and so will not comment on the rest except to say really!!?!

ludwig Melodie: merci adams
Abbis Salamander: than you Adam
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams :) yes I'll be going too...have such a cold today
Archmage Atlantis: Adams, chicken
Eos Amaterasu: Bye adams
Abbis Salamander: by Elize
Archmage Atlantis: Well, Eos
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now everyone. :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hugs :)
Eos Amaterasu: Bye Eliza
Fael Illyar: See you later Eliza :)
ludwig Melodie: bye eliza
Eos Amaterasu: Must also go to RL mtg
Archmage Atlantis: I see those who find discomfort to leave
Archmage Atlantis: avoiding suffering
Eos Amaterasu: ?
Eos Amaterasu: l8tr
Eos Amaterasu: bye all
Neela Blaisdale: Goodbye all...
ludwig Melodie: bye eos
Fael Illyar: See you later Neela :)
Abbis Salamander: bye eos
Abbis Salamander: bye Neela
ludwig Melodie: bye neela
Abbis Salamander: thank you for invitation Arch
Archmage Atlantis: It was more self serving than I admitted to myself, Abbis
Abbis Salamander: smiles, ?
Archmage Atlantis: Thank you and Ludwig for accepting
ludwig Melodie: c' est toujours un plaisir arch
Abbis Salamander: at least we kind of caused a change reaction... all left
Abbis Salamander: lol
Archmage Atlantis: Those who wish all to be free and easy were offended
Archmage Atlantis: But some will see, in time
Abbis Salamander: to be honest... to own is to loose freedom
Fael Illyar: Yes, quite so.
Archmage Atlantis: I apologize, for wha I do nt kow
--BELL--
Abbis Salamander: to have and to let go is a agony
Archmage Atlantis: To ask to include, and be denyed, is death
Fael Illyar: yes... how to have without having...
Fael Illyar: not a true paradox :)
Archmage Atlantis: Let the record show that those who choose personal freeedom, without social responsibility, have destroyed this place
Fael Illyar: Do you see PaB breaking down for this? Truly?
Abbis Salamander: the we have inside us, like knowledge, gifts love
Abbis Salamander: are real treasures
Archmage Atlantis: The concept, often called a "mime", will love
Abbis Salamander: all other can be taken away or vanished
Abbis Salamander: why is it so difficult to understand that rights always comes with responsibilities?
Archmage Atlantis: I go to my home you are all welcome
Fael Illyar: it is because responsibility is so much misunderstood
Fael Illyar: the meaning
Abbis Salamander: thank you
Fael Illyar: will you join me and Arch at his place?
Abbis Salamander: is he sending a tp?
Fael Illyar: if he doesn't I will :)
ludwig Melodie: tp me svp
Abbis Salamander: yes that would be nice
Fael Illyar: allright, a moment