2009.09.06 13:00 - Title goes here

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

Maxine Walden: hi, wol
Wol Euler: hello maxine
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: hi, Pila and eliza
Wol Euler: hello pila, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol, Max, Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza, Maxine and Wol
Maxine Walden: nice to see everyone
Pila Mulligan: indeed
Eliza Madrigal: yes, you too
Maxine Walden: Just to mention that we were thinking of a theme session about the recent retreat, and I am afraid I have to leaave at 1:30 SL, another long-planned event
Maxine Walden: just a heads up
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: and, Maxine, the idea also involved discussing some of the retreat's dream themes, a sI recall
Pila Mulligan: as I recall*
Maxine Walden: ah, right, Pila
Pila Mulligan: from the Tuesday session last week :)
Maxine Walden: yes,so many things, sometimes little slippings
Eliza Madrigal: yes that to be is very interesting... whether a group support can create a better dream environment...etc
Eliza Madrigal: *me not be
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: (thinks her typing shows that she has a cold-hahah)
Pila Mulligan: 'to me or not to me'
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Maxine Walden: :)
Maxine Walden: Yes, let's see, shall I caste back to the dream themes of the retreat as best I can recall?
Pila Mulligan: please
Eliza Madrigal: that would be wonderful
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Maxine Walden: think that it was I who brought up on the day of silence, the discussion of the silence...
Maxine Walden: that I had had a dream the night before which seemed to interdigitate with much of my daytime experience during the silence
Pila Mulligan likes ' interdigitate '
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: hello bertram
Bertram Jacobus: hello everybody ...
Maxine Walden: as if it felt to me that the dreams sort of were companions, in discourse with the experiences of that silent time, even tho dreams were beforehand
Maxine Walden: hi, Bertram
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bertram :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Bert
Maxine Walden: Bert, I am recalling some of the dream experience of the retreat...
Bertram Jacobus: hy eos :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eos :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Eos
Pila Mulligan: hi Eos
Eos Amaterasu: hi all, just here for a brief connection
Wol Euler: hello eos?
Wol Euler: (not a question...)
Eliza Madrigal: yes Maxine, doug used similar language regarding dreams... "a cloud of companions"
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Wol :-)
Maxine Walden: Eos, wasjust sharing some of my memory of the group's discussion at the retreat about dreaming
Eliza Madrigal: I had the imagery of you all... and then your dream bodies too...walking around
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Pila Mulligan: dream-waking proximity, even if lacking rational sequence
Maxine Walden: Maybe in your short time here, Eos, of the dreamscape or explorations of the group...
Maxine Walden: your impressions, Eos?
Maxine Walden: seemed several of us seemed to dip into dreams after our first consideration during discussion of the silent time
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, I was quite struck by how there are ways of knowing :-) which i had not really dreamt of :-)
Maxine Walden: !!
Eos Amaterasu: Working through sleeping dreaming, waking dreaming, drearming during waking, using dream imagery at will!
Maxine Walden: severak in the group seemed to experience dreams, just being aware that we were talking about them, as if attention was all tht was needed, is that what you recall, Eos?
Maxine Walden: yes!!
Eliza Madrigal: ah, and please... say more about "using dream imagery at will!" ?
Eos Amaterasu: Yes, it seems to be one of those talents that is available if you only believe you can do it
Wol Euler: :)
Maxine Walden: yes, that you can dip into a dream...that experience of
Pila Mulligan: a tinkerbell phenomenon
Eos Amaterasu: Some people work with bringing dream imagery as a persisting element into rl
Maxine Walden: I need to have a dream about this...and then doing so
Eliza Madrigal: In what way? Do you mean during sleep or waking... and how the overlap? Corvi talked about that also..dreaming while awake
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes Maxine
Eos Amaterasu: some with experiencing the silent period, for example, through a kind of dream or imagistic state
Maxine Walden: that the conscious self can summon a dream or call upon the dreaming self when it feels the need to, for clarification or depth communication
Maxine Walden: perhaps an experience we all have had?
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think so... maybe what I find so interesting about dreaming in the context of retreat and silence, is the idea that the dreaming selves are free-er? or allowed more range? or... Hm... it is the group element
Eliza Madrigal: it doesn't seem like something that was planned
Maxine Walden: very interesting thought, eliza,
Eliza Madrigal: or intended necessarily... a surprise?
Maxine Walden: perhaps so, suprise of a sort
Maxine Walden: surprise
Maxine Walden: and that each/all in the group could be open to these possibilities ...not threatened
Maxine Walden: that was impressive, in that so many groups I know of there is slight competition but competition nonetheless
Maxine Walden: did not feel that in the retreat, did you, Eos?
Pila Mulligan: maybe it is the intentionally diminished presence of heirarchy
Wol Euler nods
Maxine Walden: very good point1
Maxine Walden: point!
Pila Mulligan: like Quakers :)
Eos Amaterasu: No, there were a dozen people, age range from early 20's (?) to 70, at least 4 or 5 people with strong buddhist backgrounds, maybe 4 hwo worked with imagery, dream,
Maxine Walden: in fact the dropping of hierarchy seemed very relevant
Maxine Walden: and amidst the openness, the safety...maybe the dreaming self could emerge more energetically
Eos Amaterasu: It was peep-to-peer, but nevertheless with a clear navigator, Pema
Maxine Walden: Eos, a typo? with some wisdom perhaps...
Eos Amaterasu: peer -to-peop :-)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: When we come to PaB, we bring layers of things we talk about... and I think of course much of us have things going on that we don't... but our dreaming/hidden 'selves' are still benefitted from the support
Maxine Walden: we were a curious lot!
Eliza Madrigal: so then physically I can imagine that multiplied a bit...concentrated
Eos Amaterasu: This may relate to the "non-structured" time
Eos Amaterasu: which in a way was big 9-secs, 90-secs time
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Eos Amaterasu: and to sleeping time
Eos Amaterasu: where in some way we're also still experiencing being
Pila Mulligan: continuity
Eos Amaterasu: and being able to imagistically articulate it
Maxine Walden: nicely put!
Eliza Madrigal: yes wonderful... not only to have the energy but then to discus
Eliza Madrigal: *discuss
Eos Amaterasu: but the extent to which this is possible was a bit of a revelation
Maxine Walden: my experience too, eos
Pila Mulligan: so there were 'aha' moments?
Eos Amaterasu: Some growing surprises :-)
Maxine Walden: Eos, what Aha moments do you recall; I am thinking...
Maxine Walden: for me, a few times, the falling away of unseen tension to reveal a quietness a relaxed position and such a feeling of wellbeing...
Pila Mulligan: that is kind of the yin equivalent of an aha moment -- a continuing expereince instead of a sudden one
Eliza Madrigal: healing you didn't realize you needed, Maxine ?
Maxine Walden: and these times were unanticipated...seemed to be beyond conscious control
Maxine Walden: yes, Eliza
Eos Amaterasu: yes, sometimes there was a tangible feeling of the "space in the middle" of the group of us practicing together
Eos Amaterasu: felt precious, and tender, and held by us in individual ways, as well as hints of held by being
Maxine Walden: hmmm, yes...
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful description
Eos Amaterasu: I think the village can be like that :-)
Eos Amaterasu has high expectations :-)
Maxine Walden: hmm, nice thought.
Maxine Walden: several thoughts about the village seem to be in the air...
Eliza Madrigal: I love that idea Eos... and also that since you all have come back there is a kind of shameless sweetness...
Pila Mulligan: we tried the village idea with Nymf's forum a year or so ago -- it worked nicely when people were there
Pila Mulligan: the community existed, but sporadically
Wol Euler smiles at "shameless sweetness"
--BELL--
Eos Amaterasu has to leave, :-( , bye
Bertram Jacobus: bye eos ...
Maxine Walden: (I should go, dear friends. If there is interest we can consider further discussion of the retreat next time, but of course the discussion may have evolved by then...such as is occurring right now)bye eos
Pila Mulligan: bye Eos
Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine, thanks
Wol Euler: bye maxine, take care.
Pila Mulligan: (to be continued)
Bertram Jacobus: bye maxine ...
Eliza Madrigal: (Bye Eos and Maxine)
Maxine Walden: thanks, all, sorry to disturb the 90 sec
Pila Mulligan: that was fun
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: i enjoy when we talk about dreams because it seems to be a kind of portal into talking in that fuzzy space
Pila Mulligan: yep
Bertram Jacobus: i didn´t understand even the half, as usual ... :o)
Pila Mulligan: Maxine has mentioned before the view of dreaming and waking as parallel parts of experience
Pila Mulligan: in that sense, dream images could be expected to relate to waking images
Eliza Madrigal: hah Bert.... During the retreat they seem to have experienced together what we all are probably used to experiencing on our own
Eliza Madrigal: PaB helps nurture that all the time, but in a retreat they got to share it more as they were together those days with other things distanced
Bertram Jacobus: i fear such dreams experiments ... becuase i fear that things get confused ...
Wol Euler: mmm?
Bertram Jacobus: i like to let my dreams simply natural
Eliza Madrigal: it wasn't an experiment Bert... just something that emerged
Bertram Jacobus: ah. okay
Eliza Madrigal: and they noticed, compared notes
Eliza Madrigal: and we've been trying to get notes too ...hhah
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Pila Mulligan: I agree Bert, wu wei dreaming is better
Pila Mulligan: rather than trying to influence dreams
Bertram Jacobus: ty pila. really kind. (also wol and eliza) ! :-)
Pila Mulligan: but learnng that you can influence dreams seem to appeal to people too
Eliza Madrigal: yes..and also that you can set a stage to hear better....
Eliza Madrigal: because dreaming has a purpose... sleep is a good 'incubation' period
Wol Euler: hello ara
Pila Mulligan: hi Arabella
Bertram Jacobus: hi ara ... :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara
arabella Ella: Hiya Wol, Pila, Bert, Eliza!
Pila Mulligan: is Malta ready for the PaB event?
Eliza Madrigal: My life, and especially this year since PaB, has been really changed thanks to dreams
arabella Ella: ready set gooooo
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal smiles to Ara :
Wol Euler: hooray for Malta!
Wol Euler: eliza, tell us more?
arabella Ella: actually i am working on it but it is not easy
Pila Mulligan: I bet
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, Wol...
Eliza Madrigal: PaB has changed my sense of things in ways that I cou;dn't really describe rationally...
Eliza Madrigal: but dreams often create pictures
Wol Euler smiles
Eliza Madrigal: and then I'm able to learn from those too...
Eliza Madrigal: "Oh, so that's what it is" then share that too....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: and I feel like even though we don't have th undercurrents of body language here...
Eliza Madrigal: that is a kind of silence like they dscribed at the retreat...
Eliza Madrigal: (wrong order of lines)
Pila Mulligan: comprehension is a significant part of hearing and seeing
Eliza Madrigal: and in that silence I really do think another kind of communication happens
Eliza Madrigal: where we are there for each other, even about things we don't talk about
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes Pila
Eliza Madrigal: I guess that's a kind of faith I have in our experience here.. would others say the same?
Pila Mulligan: some
Wol Euler: often, yes.
Wol Euler: at our best, we are that.
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: oh definitely :)
Pila Mulligan: with interludes :)
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Wol Euler: adn with interruptions.
arabella Ella: but i guess Eliza may also imply ...
arabella Ella: that our sort of 'anonymity' here ...
arabella Ella: may make us all more honest in our communication with each other?
--BELL--
Pila Mulligan: Eliza's faith in how things work here overall seems well-founded
Eliza Madrigal: Ara yes, I think that matters too... be known/be not known.... it is potential
Pila Mulligan: anonymity is part, Arabella, but so are sincereity and good manners
arabella Ella nods
Pila Mulligan: hi Yak
Eliza Madrigal: true Pila
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yakuzza
Bertram Jacobus: heyy yaku ! ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
arabella Ella: hiya Yaku
Wol Euler: hello yakuzza
Eliza Madrigal: I feel a little defensive of PaB today, let myself get irritated reading something :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Wol Euler: anything in particular?
Eliza Madrigal: I prob shouldn't say... might irritate others and then it is a chain... and prob. just my deal which I need to "let goooo"
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Wol Euler: :)
Pila Mulligan: and it probably is ont a reflection on the parts we have been discussing
Bertram Jacobus: i would like to read it :-)
Eliza Madrigal: Besides, I think it wasn't about pab.. more about the person's own worldview perhaps
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: brb, something in my eye
Eliza Madrigal: :) yes true Pila
arabella Ella: brb
Eliza Madrigal has to get cold medicine... ugh... me too
Pila Mulligan recommends Gan Mao Ling (Chinese herbal pill) for those with colds :)
Wol Euler swears by a tiny shot of fine whiskey in lemsip :)
Pila Mulligan: http://www.amazon.com/Solstice-Ganma...2270386&sr=8-2
Pila Mulligan: wb Wol
Wol Euler: ty
Pila Mulligan: both eyes are happy I hope :)
Wol Euler: yes, thanks.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe thx pila :)
Pila Mulligan: funny how advanced science is yet the cold eludes a cure
Pila Mulligan: yw Yak :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Pila... am having emergen-C now...
Pila Mulligan: every mother has a remedy, it seems
arabella Ella: back
Eliza Madrigal: raspberry in orange juice
Pila Mulligan: wb Ara
Eliza Madrigal: like a coctail
Wol Euler does not recommend the whiskey cure for children.
arabella Ella: i love ur cure Wol :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: we say something here like an untreated cold takes 14 days, and treated one 2 weeks :)
Wol Euler: exactly.
Wol Euler: the whiskey cure doesn#t solve the problem, but it makes you happier.
Eliza Madrigal: haha
arabella Ella: may help to relieve anxiety caused by the symptoms too
arabella Ella: and to give a good night's rest
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Pila Mulligan thanks everyone for the chat and slips away ... bye for now
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Pila
Wol Euler: bye pila, take care
Bertram Jacobus: bye pila ...
arabella Ella: bye Pila
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye pila
Eliza Madrigal: yes I'll need to go also
Pila Mulligan: aloha
Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza ...
Wol Euler: bye eliza, be calm, dream well
arabella Ella: bye Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: thank you :)))
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now
arabella Ella: must go too
Yakuzza Lethecus: where is that group eliza ?
arabella Ella: bye all
Yakuzza Lethecus: the wok group, and is it closed ?
Wol Euler: bye ara
Bertram Jacobus: bye ara ...
arabella Ella: just gave you LM Yak
--BELL--
Bertram Jacobus: hello agatha ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx ara i will join you guys there i am curious :)