2009.09.27 13:00 - Bells

The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by her.

This session seemed to continue the theme of resistance to practice but also to focus upon the attraction and aversion to reminders of the practice, in this instance the 90 second bell.  In addition it felt that people necessarily had to come and go from the session even more than usual, giving a sense of the transient for me during the session and as I review for this log. 

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bert
Bertram Jacobus: hey yaku ! :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Yak and Bert
Pila Mulligan: and Pema
Pila Mulligan: and Maxine
Bertram Jacobus: hy pila and pema ! ... :-)
Pila Mulligan: avis are rezzing before me that were already here -- odd
Pema Pera: Hi Yaku, Pila, Bert, Maxine, Doug!
Bertram Jacobus: and maxine anddoug ... :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey doug pema
doug Sosa: hi all :)
Pila Mulligan: hi Doug
Maxine Walden: hi, all.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i was just checking on ur book today doug :)
Pema Pera: I'll have to leave in 15 minutes, when my Amtrak train from Boston will reach the tunnel to Manhattan
Yakuzza Lethecus: hehe
doug Sosa: mahnhattan, ah the romance of it!
Pema Pera: :)
doug Sosa: yaku, and..?
Pema Pera: which book, Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: still in the gardening :)
Pema Pera: has it come out, Doug?
doug Sosa: no, just waiting to be discovered :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: it´s online
Pema Pera: do you have the URL?
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://dougcarmichael.com/GWP.html
doug Sosa: http://dougcarmichael.com/GWP.html
doug Sosa: well, we agree, that's good :)
doug Sosa: it certainly led to my involvement wiht the sustainability initative.
Pema Pera: what are your reactions, Yaku, to the book?
doug Sosa: would be very helpful.
Yakuzza Lethecus: i just discovered that today i am not very far
Bertram Jacobus: hy sophia ... :-)
doug Sosa: (the reactions, not the book :) )
Pema Pera: hi Sophia!
Maxine Walden: hi, sophia
Pila Mulligan: hi Sophia
doug Sosa: I wonder if it spooks out some people who ar recognized before they are here, not knowing mini-map?
Pila Mulligan: the title is an old rap of mine also, DOug --Development without Growth
Pila Mulligan: development with growth has been devastating in Hawaii
doug Sosa: from aristotle, "we can have growth without development, and we can have development without growth.
Maxine Walden: differing perspectives on development and growth...
Bertram Jacobus: hello again bolonath ...take a seat if you like ! ... :-)
doug Sosa: today we have a split shown at the 20..
doug Sosa: between growth or sustainability.
Bolonath Crystal: hi evrybody
doug Sosa: 20=G20.
Maxine Walden: hi, bolonath
Pema Pera: Hi Bolonath!
sophia Placebo: hi bolonath
Maxine Walden: Bolonath, have you joined these meetings before? Afraid I have not had the pleasure to meet you.
Bolonath Crystal: i am here for the first time today
Maxine Walden: ah, let me talk with you by IM to tell you a bit about our group
doug Sosa: dicovered us or were you pointed?
Bertram Jacobus: he´s a friend of mine doug ...
Pema Pera: Hi Qt!
doug Sosa: ah, good connection.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey qt, eliza
Pila Mulligan: hi QT and Eliza
Qt Core: Hi all
Bertram Jacobus: hi qt and eliza ... :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Eliza!

Eliza's comment makes me count and we had about a dozen participants in the group

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Everyone :)...wow larger group than it seemed from a distance :)
Bertram Jacobus: :-)
doug Sosa: :)
sophia Placebo: Hi Eliza , Qt
Pema Pera: Qt will you be interested in joining us for the PaB in Malta, in January, by any chance?
--BELL--
Qt Core: interested yes, able highly improbable :-(
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch :)
Bertram Jacobus: [hy arch ] ... :-)
doug Sosa: :)
Qt Core: hi archmage
Pila Mulligan: hi Arch
sophia Placebo: hi arch

Here I try to focus attention more on that of PaB issues

Maxine Walden: any questions, comments, experiences with PaB that anyone would like to share?
Bertram Jacobus: hello fael ... :-)
Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
Pila Mulligan: hi Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Maxine Walden: hi, fael
sophia Placebo: Fael ! long no see ,hi
Archmage Atlantis: QT, Pila, Sop
Pema Pera: Hi Mick!
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Mickorod Renard: hiya
Maxine Walden: a lovely large group we are gathering today
Mickorod Renard: wow,,big gathering
sophia Placebo: hi mick

And Bertram raises that basic question which we all ask at times

Bertram Jacobus: yes : i seem not to be able to practise it very well. even my reminding phone again and again restores to not reminding me ... :-/
Mickorod Renard: snap
Bertram Jacobus: and hello mick ! ... :-)
Mickorod Renard: Bert ;)
Maxine Walden: care to say more, Bert, about the not able to practice it well?
Maxine Walden: Maybe others can share their experience helpfully
Bertram Jacobus: i find it kinda exhausting as i tried already to express : even my reminding phone doesn´tremind me for a longetime ...
Fael Illyar: if you don't really want to do it, nothing helps :)
Bertram Jacobus: and sorry please : i have a new keyboard ... typos ...
Maxine Walden: sounds like it is hard to remember or wish to be reminded..
Bertram Jacobus: do all others here want to do it regulary ?
Maxine Walden: when something is new or strange feeling it can be hard to try to do it...
Maxine Walden: maybe others can speak to Bertram's question
Archmage Atlantis: Practice is to learn, once the learning is done it is there.....after that It need only be refreshed
Bertram Jacobus: i had the impression, some did it only now and then ... (?)

We then begin to hear of reluctances to do the practice from various members of the group with encouragements as well

Maxine Walden: I think most of us find at times that it is difficult to practice regularly, for many reasons,
Fael Illyar: I don't really do the stops anymore.
Fael Illyar: well, not with a bell at least.
Bolonath Crystal: we should always be aware, but life can be pretty distractive ;)
Qt Core: i basically never did it, at scheduled times at least)
doug Sosa: but, it can be life that we want to be aware of. it is not the distraction.
Bertram Jacobus: who wouldn´t agree bolonath ? :-)
Pema Pera: nicely put, Doug
Mickorod Renard: I always have the best intentions to do it, but each day life is like a whirlpool, and once I step into it I am swept along with no control
Maxine Walden: perhaps with the upcoming 90 seconds we each can see what our attraction to the practics or distractions from the practice might be. Might be interesting to share and see ...
doug Sosa: don't try to get out of the whirpool, relax and be aware of it, how it does what it does, like the dervish whirling, in a bit it all seems stationary and can be seen.
Bertram Jacobus: nice idea maxine ! ...
Mickorod Renard: I do get that wonderful feeling Doug, but the ability to get into regular time slots seem to pass me without notice,,then voila,,the day is gone
doug Sosa: i actually use oments of tension as cues to do the 9 sec, not a bell or clock.
Maxine Walden: trying to see or to observe ourselves in whatever way we are...maybe that is part of the practice...
doug Sosa: oments=moments
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: Namaste and Blessings,
sophia Placebo: bye archamage
Archmage Atlantis: eastandwest are jooned
Archmage Atlantis: Joined
Bertram Jacobus: namaste and blessings arch

Following the 90 sec bell we then have associations to various bells which can detract or aid our efforts

Mickorod Renard: we get bells that ring notifying us when periods arrive for class changes and so on, maybe that would be a good time for me
Mickorod Renard: bye Arch
Mickorod Renard: or hello
Archmage Atlantis: I arrive
Mickorod Renard: Hi!
Qt Core: with all the chaos those bells starts mick ? ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: Sorry go so quickly, nice to see everyone :)
Mickorod Renard: bye Eliza
Maxine Walden: bye Eliza
sophia Placebo: bye Eliza
Bolonath Crystal: cu eliza
doug Sosa: Yes, must go :)
Bertram Jacobus: and i find inspiration very helpful maxine . for example when somebody gives the idea to watch a certain topic like just before ...
Mickorod Renard: yes, when a bell rings there is just noise of stampeading hoards of kids
Pema Pera: that would be a good thing to try, Mick, to use those bells
Bertram Jacobus: bye eliza and doug ...
Pema Pera: or how about each time to go through a door?
Pema Pera: we do that many times a day :)

I try to address the chaos of transition, fear of the new

Maxine Walden: it does seem that some of us feel there is some chaos or difficulty in the transition from daily life to the practice; the 'change' can feel difficult to think about...

And Pema recounts Doug's notion of chaos as fuel

Pema Pera: I like Doug's notion of using the chaos as a kind of fuel
Bertram Jacobus: but it´s a quite other thing to stop when one has for example a tense situation and to stop all 15 minutes
Qt Core: i usually use compile time, using the keyboard enter key that start the compile process as a "silent bell":
Mickorod Renard: yes, finding the means to accomplish the transition is the problem
Maxine Walden: and so we just find ourselves not attending to the 'bells' of whatever reminders there might be
Pema Pera: :)

Sophia raises the possibility of gradually increasing frequency of practice

sophia Placebo: cant graduality help ?
Pema Pera: (large lag, and now approaching the tunnel, with fortunately 20 minutes delay, so goodbye everybody!)
sophia Placebo: to start with i or 2 episodes ?
Maxine Walden: bye Pema
Bertram Jacobus: bye pema
sophia Placebo: bye pema
Mickorod Renard: bye pema
Qt Core: bye pema
Maxine Walden: yes, sophia
Maxine Walden: care to say more?
Mickorod Renard: yes, lunchtime may be posible start for me
Mickorod Renard: and end of work day
sophia Placebo: it seems that others feels something positive with these 90 seconds or 9 seconnds but they get cought at the practice
sophia Placebo: so one episode of positive feeling a day is better than non at all
Mickorod Renard: like by the boss?
Qt Core: and red traffic light while driving around ?
Mickorod Renard: I could try escaping to the toilet more often..pretend I have some strange ailment
Mickorod Renard: sexual frustration or something
Bertram Jacobus: sry - i´ll leave today "early" - have a good time all and ty for the talk! ...
Mickorod Renard: bye Bert
Maxine Walden: to even parts of ourselves, doing the practice may seem strange
sophia Placebo: bye bert
Bolonath Crystal: om shanti, bertram
Qt Core: bye bert

I try to address the issues of conflict regarding doing the practice

Maxine Walden: I often find that I have different parts of my waking self, parts that wish the practice, while at the same time other parts are 'into' whatever else is going on; a conflict of a sort between parts of me
sophia Placebo nods
Mickorod Renard: yes, I think I do too
Mickorod Renard: sometimes , during the busy day the importance seems to allude me
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Mickorod Renard: bye Yaku
Qt Core: bye yakuzza
Pila Mulligan slips away to a rl matter -- bye for now
Maxine Walden: yes, Mick, the swirl of other things just sweeps us along...
sophia Placebo: bye yakk
Bolonath Crystal: bye yakuzza
sophia Placebo: bye pila
Mickorod Renard: I would be happy to remember once
sophia Placebo: ^^
sophia Placebo: do it now !
Maxine Walden: we do have another opportunity coming up in less than a minute
Archmage Atlantis: i am of 6parts.4are animal
Archmage Atlantis: So much for logic
--BELL--

After the bell Mick raises an important question

Mickorod Renard: do you think its like ,,payng attention,,or the opposite?
Maxine Walden: the practice, Mick?
Mickorod Renard: yes
Maxine Walden: for me in a way it is both: paying attention to open up to the practice, but also ceasing to pay too close attention in too focussed a way
Maxine Walden: during the practice
Mickorod Renard: yes, its a bit odd like that i guess
Bolonath Crystal: i try to concentrate not on what i perceive, but on percepting itself
Maxine Walden: :)
Qt Core: paying attention to something unspecific
Maxine Walden: yes, Bolonath, interesting, and yes, Qt...
Mickorod Renard: I am by nature a focused person, I think, and that makes me frustrated that I cannot focus on doing the practice

Qt raises another issue

Qt Core: i don't like, about the scheduled practice the idea of it being "externally induced": remind me of the pavlov's dogs ;-)
sophia Placebo: :)
Maxine Walden: oh, maybe those external expectations seem to ring the wrong bells, as it were
Fael Illyar: Well, it's time for me to head for bed. Good night everyone :)
sophia Placebo: night fael
Fael Illyar waves.
Bolonath Crystal: good night fael
Qt Core: sleep well fael

I have to go, but the conversation continues 

Maxine Walden: I have to go, as well, have enjoyed this conversation. See you all soon.
Mickorod Renard: plus, I think I have a problem with being a control freak,,and yet in some ways this seems like control practice
Mickorod Renard: bye fael and maxine
sophia Placebo: bye maxine
Bolonath Crystal: bye maxine
Maxine Walden: bye for now, all
Qt Core: 'nighr maxine
Mickorod Renard: and Arch
Fael Illyar: Good night Love :)
Mickorod Renard: ty
Mickorod Renard: he he
Mickorod Renard: Hi Arch again
Qt Core: over the pavlovian reaction i feel like i "have" to start it in a moment notice, when scheduled, and idon't feel like staring it so fast
Archmage Atlantis: Hi
Mickorod Renard: sounds like how I feel in a way
Mickorod Renard: I am trying to remove my controlling ways..so in that way feel like the practice is another control thing
sophia Placebo: night all :)
Mickorod Renard: nite Sophia
Bolonath Crystal: good night sophia
Qt Core: 'night sophia
Archmage Atlantis: And another one bites the dust - Freddie Mercury
Mickorod Renard: I thought he died ages ago
Bolonath Crystal: i'm off as well. want to attend a teaching in a few minutes
Mickorod Renard: bye
Bolonath Crystal: bye all :)
Qt Core: bye
Qt Core: it seem contagious ;-)
Mickorod Renard: yea,,mind u,,its about the time
Mickorod Renard: is there something on at kira cafe?
Qt Core: (wonder if we are the only ones without nothing better to do at the moment) ;-)
Archmage Atlantis: It is the test
Mickorod Renard: the test?
Archmage Atlantis: Of commitment to lfe
Mickorod Renard: either sl or rl..grin
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: There is a "multiverse" we are asked only to resolve the 2,
Archmage Atlantis: RL SL
Mickorod Renard: he he he ..maybe one day we will be both..like the matrix
Mickorod Renard: ok guys..i am off to check my garden
Mickorod Renard: nice chatting c u soon
Qt Core: same here Mick
Archmage Atlantis: aLONE AGAIN
Qt Core: haven't you a couple friends on you ?
Archmage Atlantis: Anothet time, Igo
Archmage Atlantis: gofirst
Archmage Atlantis: 3 times thou sahlt deny me
Qt Core: bye
Archmage Atlantis: bye