2010.07.05 01:00 - Symbiosis

The Guardian for this meeting was Darren Islar. The comments are by Darren Islar.

Darren Islar: hey Cal :)
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Darren, Hello :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Jaime
Calvino Rabeni: This place is the PlayAsBeing pavilion
Jaime Kungfu: Hello
Calvino Rabeni: There are 4 meetings here per day
Jaime Kungfu: What are you guys talking about?
Calvino Rabeni: Nothing yet
Jaime Kungfu: When does the meeting start?
Calvino Rabeni: I had a regular session earlier - I host a slot from 7pm Sunday
Calvino Rabeni: THis one started at 1AM
Jaime Kungfu: ok
Calvino Rabeni: but no one showed yet
Jaime Kungfu: It's 4:30AM my time
Jaime Kungfu: cool
Calvino Rabeni: Did I ever show you around this sim, Jaime?
Jaime Kungfu: Maybe, but not for a long time
Calvino Rabeni: One thing to know - visitors here
Calvino Rabeni: informed that the chat is recorded and published on our web site
Calvino Rabeni: kind of like live-blogging
Jaime Kungfu: good to know, thanks
Calvino Rabeni: so the procedure is to ask for informed consent
Jaime Kungfu: ok, my consent is informed
Calvino Rabeni: and if it isn't given, we strike out their name from the session log
Calvino Rabeni: OK, thanks
--BELL--
Darren Islar: hi Zal
Zaldaan Sirnah: :}
Darren Islar: Jamie if you would like to sit down.......
Jaime Kungfu: thank you
Darren Islar: Jaime is there something you would like to talk about
Darren Islar: or maybe you have questios
Jaime Kungfu: well, since I'm a newcomer, what are the usual topics?
Calvino Rabeni: Hmm, well ... the idea is that we do a short awareness meditation every 15 minutes for 90 seconds here
Calvino Rabeni: that establishes a container of sorts
Calvino Rabeni: but the *content* is open-ended
Darren Islar: a lot of topics go
Jaime Kungfu: ok
Calvino Rabeni: That said, there are a lot of topics about "what to do with awareness"
Calvino Rabeni: or maybe some kind of way of lifting various spiritual or philosophical topics outside their traditional contexts
Jaime Kungfu: I'm aware that it's beginning to get light outside
Darren Islar: or 'how to drop'
Calvino Rabeni: into the one of - normal life
Jaime Kungfu: being aware of the dawn is a great experience, but one that I don't usually do
Calvino Rabeni: same with me,
Calvino Rabeni: The birds do a certain routine about at that time
Calvino Rabeni: then they settle down
Jaime Kungfu: the dawn chorus, oh yes
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: maybe they talk while it is still too dark to go to work
Calvino Rabeni: Have you ever read essays by the science writer Lynn Margulis?
Jaime Kungfu: Yes, the five kingdoms
Jaime Kungfu: I read that book a while ago
Calvino Rabeni: I'd heard of her work, but only recently learned that she'd been married to Carl Sagan
Jaime Kungfu: huh, I didn't realize that
Jaime Kungfu: she was very influential
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, and they have a scientist son also
Calvino Rabeni: Very influential in evolutionary genetics
Jaime Kungfu: back to the sixties, I think
Calvino Rabeni: and in a view of life that treats symbiosis as a main idea
Jaime Kungfu: one of those ideas that seems obvious now, but was no doubt a real accomplishment to articulate
Calvino Rabeni: She originated the theory that the eukariotic cell originated as a symbiotic combination of simpler microbes
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, it was against the grain
Calvino Rabeni: I think that's an accepted theory now
Jaime Kungfu: right, the idea that mitchondria were originally separate organisms
Jaime Kungfu: and chloroplasts
Calvino Rabeni: Her currently unaccepted theory, says the same thing, about the wiggly tail of many microbes
Calvino Rabeni: that the tail itself, was a separate organism
Jaime Kungfu: makes sense to me
Calvino Rabeni: It is a very unusual joint - kind of a rotating motor
Calvino Rabeni: the only such structure in nature
Jaime Kungfu: pretty cool
Calvino Rabeni: So if you have a theory of nature that gives symbiosis and communication a foundational place
Calvino Rabeni: then you get essentially the same results, but with a whole different background attitude
Calvino Rabeni: with many side effects as a paradigm
Calvino Rabeni: such as - maybe humans didn't "invent" language
Calvino Rabeni: and maybe language isn't intrinsically constituted by "words" and concepts
Calvino Rabeni: Jaime, have you run into Sandy Pentland at MIT by any chance?
Jaime Kungfu: as a matter of fact, yes
Calvino Rabeni: recently?
Jaime Kungfu: I met him last summer at a conference at the Berkman Center
Calvino Rabeni: Ah, right, it seems like he would have been there
Jaime Kungfu: John C likes him
Calvino Rabeni: Looking back at that 2005 essay in edge.org, he was promoting some of his work in human dynamics
Calvino Rabeni: with the idea - maybe we can start looking at humans has having two minds, an individual one, and a tribal or social mind, that work together
Calvino Rabeni: Then developing a research programme to start to make that idea seem concrete
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: I think it would in a way, link up to the kind of attitude one may take studying animal communication
Jaime Kungfu: I've got to get going. I'm sorry I can't continues this conversation at the moment. Good bye.
Darren Islar: bye Jamie
Zaldaan Sirnah: It's an interesting conversation.
Calvino Rabeni: Bye Jaime
Darren Islar: it is
Calvino Rabeni: That area between Harvard U and MIT is a kind of research / think tank part of the world - a lot of intellectual innovation happen there
Calvino Rabeni: Also the state - Massachusetts - is one of the more politically progressive of the United States
--BELL--
Darren Islar: brb
--BELL--
Calvino Rabeni: Shall we call it a day / night?
Darren Islar: yes
Calvino Rabeni: OK, take care, be well (please!) Darren and Zal
Darren Islar: see you Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Bye