2010.07.26 19:00 - What is thought?

The Guardian for this meeting was SophiaSharon Larnia. The comments are by SophiaSharon Larnia.

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Calvino :)
Calvino Rabeni: Party of 2, your pool is ready
SophiaSharon Larnia: *smiles*
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: how are you?

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Decent, Sharon :)
Calvino Rabeni: I enjoyed the summer day
Calvino Rabeni: And you :)
Calvino Rabeni: ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: just got home from a week away, grateful for everything atm
SophiaSharon Larnia: and oddly, after just one week, the keyboard feels funny in my lap
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Calvino Rabeni: That happens sometimes after a meditation
SophiaSharon Larnia: I cant say the whole week was like a meditation, but had lots of opportunity to have no preference :))
Calvino Rabeni: What do you remember that was ... different ... from life as usual?
SophiaSharon Larnia: alot more thought pictures that come and go
SophiaSharon Larnia: contemplative things that I feel are important but let go
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, the same (I think) happens for me
SophiaSharon Larnia: Its amazing to think that people travel all the time, I wonder if it's like that for them all the time, or would staying at home do that for them
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Calvino Rabeni: the thought pictures - I wonder what they are ....
SophiaSharon Larnia: always been hard to explain that
Calvino Rabeni: I feel if I interrupt them, then the experiences are not yet fully completed
SophiaSharon Larnia: I see something and it instigates a thought stream
Calvino Rabeni: The contents of the thought stream - what's in it?
Calvino Rabeni: And the quality of the thoughts?
Calvino Rabeni: The effect they have?
Calvino Rabeni: I'm noticing those differences in my experience
SophiaSharon Larnia: the content? Im not sure, energy, i think a collaborative thing, with other people, and thought simmering under the surface
Calvino Rabeni: Somehow the memories become "realer"
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: the quality? none sometimes, randomness
SophiaSharon Larnia: picking up stray energies maybe
Calvino Rabeni: more depth, more space around them, more nuanced, energizing or relaxing to experience them
SophiaSharon Larnia: the effect? depends on what you do with it :)
Calvino Rabeni: those are the ones that seem worth attending to
Calvino Rabeni: and they develop further, given attention
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, if you cultivate that, which is really hard to do

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: on a existing level, so random
SophiaSharon Larnia: (apparently, maybe not actually :)) )
SophiaSharon Larnia: how do you attend to that?
Calvino Rabeni: Apparently random, but maybe not actually?
Calvino Rabeni: What's random mean....?
Calvino Rabeni: That I don't know what will come next?
SophiaSharon Larnia: you see something, a thought arises from that, later, see something that reminded you of thinking of that earlier but now with a new twist
Calvino Rabeni: Or that there are mixtures of content?
Calvino Rabeni: Ahhh (!)
SophiaSharon Larnia: random in the sense that i dont know what the connection is, it seems random
Calvino Rabeni: The New Twist ,,,, nice :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont know :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: when i carry around a notebook, it is a collection of random things
Calvino Rabeni: I guess I give up on thinking about what to expect the connections to be
Calvino Rabeni: but I do pay attention to the qualities
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting
Calvino Rabeni: The qualities don't seem random
Calvino Rabeni: they change slowly with an organic rhythm
Calvino Rabeni: and are well correlated with the "feel" and body sense of response
SophiaSharon Larnia: thought change fast for me
Calvino Rabeni: the unpredictability could be exciting, like listening to music
SophiaSharon Larnia: maybe its add :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: (for me i mean)
Calvino Rabeni: I never really know what people mean by "thought" - sorry :)
Calvino Rabeni: It's one of those things ....
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: what would you call it?
SophiaSharon Larnia: or how to describe it?
Calvino Rabeni: Hmmm, same problem with "it" as "thought" :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok
SophiaSharon Larnia: i dont need definitions
SophiaSharon Larnia: they change so much anyway
Calvino Rabeni: Is it - the whole range of - whatever goes on in my awareness, and maybe on its edge, and beyond, all sensory modes, movements, noticing perception, body tensions, hunches, feelings, words that pop up, a congested feeling in the eyes, verbal fragments, a jittery feeling, a memory of my to-do list ....
Calvino Rabeni: All "thought" ? :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :) cant pigeon hole that
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha
Calvino Rabeni: I was walking by a sequoia tree today, noticed that it had a scent - I guess that qualifies too
SophiaSharon Larnia: so thoughts as all things sensory :)))
Calvino Rabeni: It's known that some perceptions are unconscious as well as conscious
Calvino Rabeni: I guess I'd call those thoughts also
SophiaSharon Larnia: the constant awareness of perception
SophiaSharon Larnia: +s
Calvino Rabeni: Or for instance, "just almost" remembering a dream from probably, last night
SophiaSharon Larnia: hmm maybe not 'awareness' awareness :P
Calvino Rabeni: Is the dream an unconscious thought?

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: without external sensory data, hmm
SophiaSharon Larnia: at least, consciously noticed at the time
Calvino Rabeni: Or a piece of grass touches my arm - and for a while, it could be an insect, or an itch, but then "becomes" grass ...
SophiaSharon Larnia: (that was a question, i was thinking out loud haha)
SophiaSharon Larnia: like a trigger
SophiaSharon Larnia: for the thought
Calvino Rabeni: I guess, to me there isn't any clear disconnect between external, sensory, reaction, and whether it's conscious or not conscious
Calvino Rabeni: so all qualify as possible facets of "thought"
SophiaSharon Larnia: :))
Calvino Rabeni: Like all the components of that grass/insect/itch/twitch experience
SophiaSharon Larnia: the sense of self differentiates them, maybe
Calvino Rabeni: A lot went on, many levels
SophiaSharon Larnia: indeed
Calvino Rabeni: all in a flash, with a whole lot of history crystallized into the result
Calvino Rabeni: and environment. e.g. it could have been "mosquito" but there aren't any in that location
SophiaSharon Larnia: im going to sound real dumb here, because i forget the word for these
Calvino Rabeni: or if it had just happened before, and I remembered it was grass, then the following one would be a lot more grass and less insect
SophiaSharon Larnia: one of the random 'thoughts' that popped in my head is the I am 'poems' that were written > 2000 yrs ago
SophiaSharon Larnia: interesting Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Poems ? (Calvino likes poems also :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: these poems seemed to emerge when humans were developing a sense of i am ( i happen to think these types of literary expressions are older than they seem to be)
SophiaSharon Larnia: from sumerian interpretations, and in the bible too, i guess, I’m thinking more mesopotamian tho
Calvino Rabeni: I feel like my subconscious is scanning for remembered poems with an "i AM" theme
SophiaSharon Larnia: there are so many
SophiaSharon Larnia: (they have a name but i forget atm what it is) (- the name for this that I couldn’t remember is ‘aretalogy‘)
Calvino Rabeni: No doubt some recent poems too
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Names for the type of poem?
SophiaSharon Larnia: it seemed when i was thinking of it, that they emerged when humans were developing this ego separation, maybe, like a possibility
Calvino Rabeni: Theres the poet's feeling of being present in the seeing / appreciation
SophiaSharon Larnia: but just randomness
Calvino Rabeni: as if, the world is not real unless I AM
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Calvino Rabeni: Here's an example by Rilke - title: To Meet and Be Met
Calvino Rabeni:

I feel it now: there's a power in me to grasp and give shape to the world.
I know nothing has ever been real
without my beholding it.
All becoming has needed me.
My looking ripens things and they come toward me, to meet and be met.

SophiaSharon Larnia: chewing on that :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: and making the divine real too?
Calvino Rabeni: Later the modern consciousness decided that things could be fully formed completely independently of being seen
Calvino Rabeni: which was kind of too bad for the Subject I think
Calvino Rabeni: being out of a job and all
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Susan :)

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I don't know what it must have been like for the ancients, if they didn't have that split and distance
Susan Aloix: Hey :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: or if that idea is something we assume, and was not real :)
Susan Aloix: Hi Sophia..hey Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Susan :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: welcome Susan
SophiaSharon Larnia: have you been here before Susan?
Calvino Rabeni: Yes Susan has
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok :))
Susan Aloix: Yes about my third visit I think Sophia ...nice to meet you....how did the discussion go?
SophiaSharon Larnia: its 11pm and ive had a longggg day :))
Susan Aloix: ohhh nice
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to be about (1) what "thoughts" are and (2) experiencing outside the subject/object split
Calvino Rabeni: (as I interpret it)
SophiaSharon Larnia: haha good description, better than what i was typing
Calvino Rabeni: Poems that express "I AM" realizations
Susan Aloix: (i mean ohhh right 11pm its late :))
SophiaSharon Larnia: grins
Susan Aloix: ohh great discussion topics
SophiaSharon Larnia: im reluctant to do so, but im falling asleep here ^^
Calvino Rabeni: SSL, you've done your duty for the session - quite well IMHO
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, sleep well :)
Susan Aloix: ohh kk sophia...
Susan Aloix: take care :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: good night!! hope to talk with you later Susan :)
Susan Aloix: yes :)) same