2010.12.01 13:00 - Swoon

Fefonz Quan: Hi Gaya :-)

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Fefonz :)

Gaya Ethaniel: I'm passing thru to say congratulations!

Fefonz Quan: thanks a lot!

Gaya Ethaniel: :)

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Fefonz))))))))))))))))))))))))) !!!!!

Fefonz Quan: yay

Eliza Madrigal: So happy for you... swooned over your beautiful comments re appeciation

Gaya Ethaniel: RL have fun everyone :)

Fefonz Quan: bye gaya

Fefonz Quan: what is swoon?

Bruce Mowbray: bye, Gaya.

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Qt!

Qt Core: Hi all

Fefonz Quan: hi bruce, qt

Bruce Mowbray: hi, Fef!

Fefonz Quan: and thanks Eliza:)

Eliza Madrigal: swoon is.... like getting drunk with delight

Fefonz Quan: and that's just the photos///

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Fefonz Quan: yes, me swoon too those days

Qt Core: :)

Fefonz Quan: i have an interesting experience concerning her name

Eliza Madrigal listens

Fefonz Quan: we didn't decide yet, and i feel she is already whole and complete as she is

Eliza Madrigal: oh, beautiful

Fefonz Quan: so in a way, i find it difficult to 'label' her with something

Fefonz Quan: and names tend to carry a lot of weight in them

Eliza Madrigal: well, to be raised by a father who will teach her the wonder of expressions ...

Bruce Mowbray: oh yes. ;-)

Eliza Madrigal: quite a gift for her

Eliza Madrigal: my oldest daughter had no name for a few days... every idea flew out the window when I saw her

arabella Ella: Hiya!

Fefonz Quan: yes, it's similar to my experience.

Qt Core: that happened both to me and to my sister

Fefonz Quan: hi Ara1

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Ara :)

Eliza Madrigal: so maybe she'll tell you her name :)

arabella Ella: Fefonz! My sincere congratulations how happy I am for you and your wife too!

Qt Core: hi ara

Fefonz Quan: and how did u resolve it?

Fefonz Quan: thanks Ara! :)

Eliza Madrigal: I'm just reflecting on how wonderful it is to have parents so happy and thoughtful....

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, ara!

Eliza Madrigal: I gave her a name with an AH at the end :) because she made me take a deep breath,..

arabella Ella: would you like any sugggestions Fef?

Eliza Madrigal: a name that conjured a wide place to run

Eliza Madrigal: and a large sky :)

Eliza Madrigal: (like a riddle..heheh)

arabella Ella: how lovely Eliza!

Eliza Madrigal: but you'll probably jsut have to spend a lot of time staring at her Fef :)

Fefonz Quan: well. that one i alredy do Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: ty Ara :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)) Fef

Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

arabella Ella: to begin with i think traditional names are less embarassing to a child

arabella Ella: and keeping in mind Fef's context

arabella Ella: i would suggest traditional names like Rachel or Gabrielle

Eliza Madrigal: :) rachel is beautiful...

Fefonz Quan: those are so traditional, they mostly belong to our grandmothers' generation :)

Qt Core: After Fef mentioned her "completeness" i thought about Grace

arabella Ella: nothing wrong with that Fef

--BELL--

arabella Ella: Pietra (femminine of Peter) is also nice and includes 'wholeness' or 'completeness'

Eliza Madrigal: I'm somewhere in the middle there... appreciate traditional names but also names that have a sense of one's own...

Eliza Madrigal: or combinations of both :)

arabella Ella: i dont think anything beats short sweet and traditional

Eliza Madrigal: though I will say context and environment matters too... if one gives a name which makes sense one way in one place but not in another... can be tricky for the child

Fefonz Quan: alol those are very nice (myself i find many english names worthy), yet we incline toward our native language.

arabella Ella: yes Andrea for example is for females in UK and males in Italy

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick :)

Fefonz Quan: heya Mick

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Mick.

arabella Ella: Hiya Mick

Mickorod Renard: hi guys

Qt Core: hi Mick

arabella Ella: you could always use your language version of a name though

Eliza Madrigal: I've enjoyed my name but there are literally hundreds of girls my oldest daughter's age with it... everywhere I go... every ceremony...hah

arabella Ella: LOL

Fefonz Quan: yes, i have that factor too

arabella Ella: that is what is nice about choosing our name on SL altho i noticed quite a few males here use their RL name on SL too

Eliza Madrigal: true

Qt Core: in this connected world something that would not too hard to be spelled and sais in most of the world preferably

arabella Ella: females tend to choose one of their preferred names as opposed to their RL name for SL

Fefonz Quan: and females dont?

arabella Ella: no females dont

Qt Core: i'm not named qt ;-)

Eliza Madrigal: heheh

Fefonz Quan: so what does it mean? females are more playful with their identity?

Eliza Madrigal: I'm named Eliza because my middle name is Beth, not too creative

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Alfred.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Alfred :)

arabella Ella: i dont have an answer Fefonz it is just an observation which i find interesting

Qt Core: hi Alfred

Mickorod Renard: hi alf

arabella Ella: Hiya Alfie!

Alfred Kelberry: good to see you all and thank you :)

Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zen.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)

Fefonz Quan: hi Alf, Zen

Alfred Kelberry: fef :) shalom

Fefonz Quan: uvracha, Alf

Zen Arado: Hi all

Qt Core: i may end up as a sexist, but aren't females more used to play with their aspect, from clothes to makeup, so maybe they see the names as something you can play with while males don't

Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if relatives are battling over her name... that happened to me...

Alfred Kelberry: fef, is mazel tov coming soon? :)

Fefonz Quan: came 10 days ago Af

Qt Core: hi zen

Eliza Madrigal: perhaps Qt, doesn't seem sexist to say that

Fefonz Quan: don't u read the emails? :)

Alfred Kelberry: oh! um, actually, i haven't got any

Alfred Kelberry: but something tells me i ought to say it :)

Eliza Madrigal: :))

Fefonz Quan: Eliza, we don't ltet relatives decide for us, as far as we can.

Alfred Kelberry: mazel tov!!! :)

Eliza Madrigal: yes we didn't either, but wow did they try! :D

Fefonz Quan: _/!\_

Alfred Kelberry: wonderful, fef :)

Mickorod Renard: yes, us males are less wrapped up in vanity :)

arabella Ella: you may be right Qt about females and play altho i think males may find it more difficult to adjust to new names ... generally speaking there are exceptions which we know of too!

Eliza Madrigal: well not so sure aobut that mick! diff sorts of vanity =P~

arabella Ella: both males and females could be vain

arabella Ella: of course

Fefonz Quan: maybe males are more attached to their self/ego/ettc

Qt Core: we are vain in our supposed strenght

Mickorod Renard: most us guys are still in the same clothes we started with

Alfred Kelberry: males attached to what society thinks of them

Fefonz Quan: not the women here Mick

Alfred Kelberry: mick :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Zen Arado: don't think we can genealize about this

Alfred Kelberry: i got a scarf

Eliza Madrigal: I definitely didn't look like this when I started

Eliza Madrigal: but I've had this zen outfit for a while :)

Bruce Mowbray: and what a lovely scarf it is!

Alfred Kelberry: hehe

Zen Arado: and men have been very foppish in other ages

Alfred Kelberry: thank you, bruce :)

arabella Ella: isnt it a tie Alfie?

Eliza Madrigal admires Alfred's scarf and pictures his closet full of the same one....

Alfred Kelberry: no, sorry, ara :)

Alfred Kelberry: eliza :)

Eliza Madrigal: many men in SL actually change a lot...

Eliza Madrigal: some quite dramatically outdoing any girl I've ever known :)

Zen Arado: and spare boxes?

Eliza Madrigal: hehe

Fefonz Quan: especially those with female avs

Alfred Kelberry: i like changing clothes in sl

--BELL--

arabella Ella: yes Eliza I said there were some exceptions, some of whom we may know too

Eliza Madrigal: yes :)

Qt Core: well, if you have to change do it all the way, just changing hair lenght is useless ;-)

Eliza Madrigal: heheh

Eliza Madrigal: good point qt

Eliza Madrigal wonders if we are helping Fef at all :)

Mickorod Renard: if you look at most male contrived sculpture, they are quite minimalistically endowed. this suggests that males are not vain, well I think they are not well endowed, from my perspective :)

Fefonz Quan: we are not here for help, just for sharing

Fefonz Quan: :)

Alfred Kelberry: oh, we're helping fef? :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)

arabella Ella: LOL ... Mick!!!!!

Eliza Madrigal thinks she has reached the end of her ability to comment

Eliza Madrigal: heh

arabella Ella laughing too much!

Fefonz Quan: hehe

arabella Ella thinks it better to keep my mouth shut too

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Zen Arado: it was a religious age

Fefonz Quan: maybe it's just easier not to stretch the marble strength ;-)

Alfred Kelberry: zen, religious age?

Eliza Madrigal: see what happens when men outnumber women in the circle....

Zen Arado: in which thoses sculpture were made

Eliza Madrigal: hehehe

Zen Arado: thinking of Michelangelo's David

Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i can play on your side :)

Eliza Madrigal smiles

Eliza Madrigal: haha oh sure :)

Alfred Kelberry: still 2 girls short :)

Fefonz Quan: thinking outside of the box Alfi?

Zen Arado: :)

Alfred Kelberry: fef, um... i'm not sure

Qt Core: (try stay out there in wnter, Zen...)

Alfred Kelberry: just a honest offer, fef

Eliza Madrigal: :)

arabella Ella: i dont mind you being on the girls side Alfie!

arabella Ella: would only be fair

Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)

arabella Ella: :)

Fefonz Quan: i have a little girl sleeping here, we can count her in

Fefonz Quan: :)

Alfred Kelberry: :)

arabella Ella: how sweet Fef :)

Eliza Madrigal: :)))))) yes

Mickorod Renard: :)

Eliza Madrigal: something wonderful about strong men doting on tiny babies :)

arabella Ella: now as i cant resist putting in my two cents worth

Alfred Kelberry: *suddenly sees a cushion near him*

Alfred Kelberry: thank you, bruce :)

arabella Ella: would the David not be considered vulgar if he were to have been made any different?

Bruce Mowbray: ;-) yw!

Zen Arado: I think the church did cover up paintings and sculptures at one time

Mickorod Renard: maybe david was made during a severe winter

Alfred Kelberry: church is good at covering things up

Eliza Madrigal: :)

Eliza Madrigal: !

Bruce Mowbray: including David's non-circumcision. . ..

arabella Ella: yes Zen the cchurch did so

Zen Arado: a woman at a local art exhibition of my art club complained about naked breasts in a painting recently

Fefonz Quan: yes Bruce, that always made me wonder

Zen Arado: she had her young daughter with her and thought she shouldn't see that

Bruce Mowbray: Had the pope and Michelangelo never heard of the covenant with Abraham?

Fefonz Quan: maybe the artist used a model and forgot to make the required adaptations?

Bruce Mowbray: So . . . the model before th scriptures?

Fefonz Quan: I meant a male model

Bruce Mowbray: or maybe historical accuracy was not that important then. . .

arabella Ella: LOL

Fefonz Quan: " It was a cold winter in Italy...."

Zen Arado: shame at nudity was introduced when Adam and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden according to the bible

Bruce Mowbray: You know, Michelangelo actually adjusted the direction that his Moses' face was facing. . .

Bruce Mowbray: moved it about 40 degrees to the left. . .

Fefonz Quan: Why Bruce?

Zen Arado: why was that Bruce?

Bruce Mowbray: so that it was NOT looking at the altar of the established church.

Eliza Madrigal: hmmm

arabella Ella: we need Qt here to get the facts right ... Qt are you here?

Bruce Mowbray: a personal rebellion, of sorts.

Eliza Madrigal: quiet rebellion :)

Qt Core: yas, but i'm not versed in the arts... even if i saw the David in Firenze

Bruce Mowbray listens for the facts. . .

Fefonz Quan: and yet he gave him horns... Michelangelo indeed wasn't about accuracy

Qt Core: i never heard about David's model

Bruce Mowbray: yes! LOVE those horns!

Bruce Mowbray: a vehicle for direct communication with God.

Bruce Mowbray: as with Lugh's antlers, here.

Qt Core: so having him not circumcised should be a choice

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: I agree, Qt. and also a powerful statement -- perhaps anti-semitic, don't know.

Fefonz Quan: or maybe the artist was humble enough not to sculpt what his eyes never saw?

Zen Arado: I never had children - wonder what it feels like to have a new baby

Fefonz Quan: IT is quite a different experience

Zen Arado: like a part of yourself

Fefonz Quan: in fact, i guess that feeling goes more with the woman

Fefonz Quan: (to begin with)\

Zen Arado: yes - I guess so

Zen Arado: it really was part of her

Eliza Madrigal: ah but some kind of something settles on an attentive father..

Fefonz Quan: it sure does Eliza

Zen Arado: a natural instinct to protect and nourish

Eliza Madrigal: awe-some calling :)

Zen Arado: we have it for other species too

Zen Arado: for the young of other species

Zen Arado: pups and kittens

Zen Arado: maybe some don't have that though

Zen Arado: think I would feel a great sense of responsibility too

Eliza Madrigal: deeply happy for you and your family Fef, congratulations again... better go for now but wish you all happiness and health again

Eliza Madrigal: and always

arabella Ella: some may not but i think there is always that awesome feeling that a new vulnerable life is being created and that is beautiful

Zen Arado: bye Eliza :)

Eliza Madrigal: yes

Mickorod Renard: bye eliza

Bruce Mowbray: May you be happy and safe,Eliza.

arabella Ella: bye Eliza

Qt Core: Bye Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone, thank you :)

Bruce Mowbray: changing the subject greatly -- I just found this:

Bruce Mowbray: David's penis is relatively small, probably to avoid attracting attention (the viewers' eyes are level with his feet), and following classical ideals. He is intact because: * Michaelangelo preferred it * his model was (of course) intact * Michaelangelo had regard to the midrash (Men 43 6) that David "looked on himself in the bath and was distressed he had no evidence of a covenant fulfilled" and had himself (re-)circumcised (Encyclopedia Judaica) * the ancient Israelite circumcision was minimal, and/or * it isn't of the Biblical David at all. Some art historians believe that David was actually the name of the model who posed for the statue, and that Michaelangelo claimed the Biblical reference to make it acceptable to the Christian world.

Bruce Mowbray: Not to prolong the discussion -- but just for information. . .

Qt Core: ohh, that would be fun

Zen Arado: thanks Bruce

arabella Ella: mmmmm excuse my ignorance but what is a covenant fulfilled pls?

Bruce Mowbray: ;-)

Bruce Mowbray: onward. . .

Mickorod Renard: thanks bruce

Zen Arado: circumcision?

Bruce Mowbray: The covenant with Abraham required that all males be circumcised.

Zen Arado: it is in the bible I think

Zen Arado: Leviticus?

Bruce Mowbray: Oh boy. . . .

arabella Ella: oh that bit was never taught to us females in all the religious lessons we had ... he he

Qt Core: strangely enough as i was in Firenze with school/// many year ago no teacher deemed necessary to go in some details ;-)

Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I also took a course in the Renaissance in Florence. . .

Bruce Mowbray: and when I asked my teacher about "WHY not??" he dodged the whole question.

arabella Ella: LOL

Fefonz Quan: need to go too :) good night all

Qt Core: but nowadays with the wiki powers ;-)

Mickorod Renard: nite fef

Qt Core: 'night Fef

Bruce Mowbray: Apparently, embarrassment about "male vanity" (????) takes precident over historical matters.

arabella Ella: nite Fefonz and congrats to you and Mrs. Fefonz once again :)

Fefonz Quan: _/!\_

Bruce Mowbray: Good night, Fef!

Zen Arado: nite Bruce

Qt Core: things little or not so little children should not see/know

Zen Arado: nite Fef

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray feels that bringing meditative awareness to issues like embarrassment is very helpful to find "sanity" again.

Zen Arado: yes Bruce

arabella Ella nods

Zen Arado: I better go

Zen Arado: nite all

Bruce Mowbray: G'nite, Zen.

Mickorod Renard: nite zen

arabella Ella: nite Zen

Bruce Mowbray: May you be happy and safe.

arabella Ella: i need to be off for few mins will be back soon

Alfred Kelberry: poof

Alfred Kelberry: it was nice having ara nearby. cozy :)

Bruce Mowbray: ;-) I do understand that, Al.

Alfred Kelberry: :)

Bruce Mowbray: even though Zen teachings tell us that we cannot "share experience" ha ha.

Alfred Kelberry: in a sense that it's unique to each one?

Bruce Mowbray: brb --phone!

Mickorod Renard: alf, are u in europe?

Alfred Kelberry: *nods*

Qt Core: maybe it's just a wordplay but share and understand are different

Alfred Kelberry: wb, ara :)

Qt Core: rehi ara

arabella Ella: hiya!

Bruce Mowbray: sry, folks but my buddy Steve from Alaska is on the phone and I must be gone.

Bruce Mowbray: May all be happy and safe.

Bruce Mowbray: G'night.

Mickorod Renard: alf, are u doing the i-ching?

Qt Core: bye Bruce, have fun

arabella Ella: bye Bruce say Hi to Steve!

Mickorod Renard: bye bruce

Alfred Kelberry: mick, not really. i talk to pila about it when i have a chance :)

arabella Ella: how silly i wanted to unsubscribe from a group in SL that I dont use any more and they made me visit their sim to click something to un-subscribe!

Mickorod Renard: ok

Mickorod Renard: thats wierd

Alfred Kelberry: ara, horror!

arabella Ella: yes it is very weird

arabella Ella: now it is done

Alfred Kelberry: they collect clicks :)

arabella Ella: but the groups at times seem to spam us in email

Mickorod Renard: ahh maybe

arabella Ella: collect clicks?

arabella Ella: visitors?

Qt Core: have to go, bye all

Mickorod Renard: must be

arabella Ella: notte Qt sogni d'oro!

Mickorod Renard: bey qt

Alfred Kelberry: just a guess :)

arabella Ella: it is also funny tho the way you get for example 900 visitors to a site on search, then you give it a visit and there may only be one or two avis

Mickorod Renard: alf, it was just that I have done some iching boxes, and wondered if u wanted one

Mickorod Renard: yes,i have noticed that too Ara

arabella Ella: makes one wonder how they count visitors

Alfred Kelberry: oh, mick! yes, i've seen those - very craftsy of you :)

Mickorod Renard: I would be only too happy to send you one should u wish..it is at no charge

Mickorod Renard: just let me know some time

Alfred Kelberry: no charge doesn't seem fair for such a fine box :)

arabella Ella: i must be off now

Mickorod Renard: bye Ara

arabella Ella: good night Alfie and Micko!

Alfred Kelberry: night, ara :)

Alfred Kelberry: honestly, though, i'd really like to have one, mick :)

Mickorod Renard: ok great

--BELL--

Mickorod Renard: I can either send you one via Pila, or direct, the only issue would be an address to send it

Mickorod Renard: dont tell it here

Alfred Kelberry: it's a long way to go :)

Mickorod Renard: I just sent Pila 7 to hawai

Alfred Kelberry: wow, nice :)

Mickorod Renard: :)

Mickorod Renard: so sending to europe, cos i am in the uk, would be nothing hardly

Alfred Kelberry: ah, uk, i didn't know

Mickorod Renard: we will chat again about it, cos i have to go

Alfred Kelberry: ok, thank you for the offer, mick. very kind of you.

Alfred Kelberry: night :)

Mickorod Renard: its my pleasure, and its nice for me to feel that they are with people I hold dear to me

Mickorod Renard: nite Alf

Alfred Kelberry: :)