2010.12.02 07:00 - Commenting on commentators

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

It's cold. There's ice on the pool in the pavilion. Snow is falling.

Yakuzza Lethecus: hey stomr
Storm Nordwind: Hi!
Yakuzza Lethecus: huhu alf
Alfred Kelberry: hey :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi there
Alfred Kelberry: sorry, had to set up firewall rules
Alfred Kelberry: nice to see you stormy :)
Storm Nordwind smiles
Alfred Kelberry: and sorry to hear you're sick. hope you'll get better soon! :)
Storm Nordwind: You're very kind :)

les nuance de la neige...

Alfred Kelberry: i like the falling snow
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, is it possible to slow it down a bit?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, i have that in real life as well :)
Storm Nordwind: It is better than rising snow. perhaps?
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Storm Nordwind: Slow it in what way?
Storm Nordwind: Thin it out? Reduce gravity?
Alfred Kelberry: falling rate
Alfred Kelberry: yes, gravity
Storm Nordwind: Yes. But why?
Alfred Kelberry: i think a slower rate would be more fitting for the pagoda and the quiet scenery around
Alfred Kelberry: maybe you can make it variable :)
Storm Nordwind: It's worth a try. I will experiment with my god powers - though not now!
Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: alf, do you also have snow atm ?
Alfred Kelberry: yes
Alfred Kelberry: not much though
Alfred Kelberry: *waves to observer*
Yakuzza Lethecus: here it´s enough for some chaos
Alfred Kelberry: yaku :) yes, i heard of flights being canceled
observerm Resident waves at alfred
Alfred Kelberry: :)
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind has had remarkably little snow so far this winter

Playing with translators.

Alfred Kelberry: oh, i've just noticed. sl client 2.3.0 has a google translate option in chat :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh, they learn from phoenix
Yakuzza Lethecus: und, sprichst du nun auch deutsch dank, google ?
Alfred Kelberry: ja, ja :)
Alfred Kelberry: ok, say something in german, yaku :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: ich habe eben über riddle´s **********Applause!!********** im android marktplatz gelesen
Yakuzza Lethecus: **********Applause!!**********
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Yakuzza Lethecus: sry, appp seems to be bound to applause
Yakuzza Lethecus: ich habe eben über riddle´s app im android marktplatz gelesen
Alfred Kelberry: wait, you're using android now?
Yakuzza Lethecus: nein, ich habe nur einen ipod touch

The Riddle of the Gong.

Alfred Kelberry: "(I have just read about Riddle's app in android market place)"
Alfred Kelberry: it works :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: allerdings gibt es android für iphone/ipod touch
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.idroidproject.org/wiki/Main_Page
Alfred Kelberry: it adds translation in braces after the text
Yakuzza Lethecus: do you use android alf ?
Alfred Kelberry: what about riddle? he's written an android app?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, it´s called pab bell or something
Alfred Kelberry: no, i've tried sdk in eclipse though
Alfred Kelberry: i should check it out :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: PaB Gong
Yakuzza Lethecus: that´s how it´s called
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey dao
Storm Nordwind: Greetings Dao :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: i don´t have an android device tho
Dao Yheng: Hi Yaku, long time :)
Alfred Kelberry: hi, dao :)
Dao Yheng: Hi Storm, Alfred!
Alfred Kelberry: huh?
Alfred Kelberry: it's funny, google translated my greeting to you, dao :)
Alfred Kelberry: odd
Alfred Kelberry: *turns it off*
Dao Yheng: My niece said "android" for the first time over the Thanksgiving holiday :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: how old is she ?
Alfred Kelberry: good word :)
Dao Yheng: 2 in late Feb
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.androidpit.de/de/android/...d.pab/PaB-Gong
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.androidpit.com/en/android...d.pab/PaB-Gong
Alfred Kelberry: heh, nice picture :) http://st04.androidpit.info/style/twitter.jpg
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, yaku
Alfred Kelberry: makes me want to try it again and write something :)
Alfred Kelberry: bruce! :)
Storm Nordwind: g'day Bruce :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Hello, everyone.
Dao Yheng: Hi Bruce!
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: oh, "golden hour" light :)
Alfred Kelberry: how much fps do you have on your clients?
Alfred Kelberry: ctrl-shift-1 opens a statistics window

A question about commentaries.

Dao Yheng: I have a little question for everyone today -- I've been reading a few Buddhist books (text and commentary, or just lectures, etc), and sometimes I run into commentaries that I just disagree with. My stategy in the past has just been to avoid reading those books, but I wonder if there's another approach?
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps to read another book with the same root text but with a contrary commentary, to see how it balances perhaps?
Alfred Kelberry: dao, maybe it's from differing schools?
Dao Yheng: Hmm, good suggestion -- I must admit, my tendency is just to put the whole thing aside
Alfred Kelberry: dao, i actually do the same, sort of...
Dao Yheng: Good point, Alfred -- I guess I assume that Buddhism should be more unified, but of course there are many points of view
Storm Nordwind: And then to discuss the two with a physical teacher. These things are often because of historical context - different emphases in different places at different times
Storm Nordwind: It depends largely on the motivation of the commentator
Alfred Kelberry: i skip the overly religious parts (e.g. karmic transfer of souls) or take a more practical perspective
Storm Nordwind: Even the difference of "liberation for self" vs "liberation for all" can bring a deep difference in commentary
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, and his school of thought
Dao Yheng: hmm, interesting, yes
Alfred Kelberry: i've talked to one monk who said there's no such notion as life is suffering in early buddhist teaching

Being the commentator.

Bruce Mowbray: I think that dialogue with "authorities" is viewed differently by different cultures in different times. . .
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: What I mean by that is -- Could you not also make a commentary?
Bruce Mowbray: Would that not also be appropriate from your own experience?
Bruce Mowbray: So, you would then be engaging in a sort of dialogue with whoever else made commentaries.
Dao Yheng: oh interesting! sort of like what we do in the Ways of Knowing group :)
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, exactly. Isn't everyone's experience valuable -- or only the experience and thought of "authorities"?
Alfred Kelberry: yes, but seldom would care, unless you're an american idol judge :)
Storm Nordwind: The difference there is "group". It helps to have such a group. When one is isolated and thinking these things through only by oneself, it is more difficult.
Bruce Mowbray: Mmmmmm. But laying aside an entire book because you disagree with the commentary . . . . seems to me to be a sort of "statement" in itself. . .
Dao Yheng: Hmm, yes -- definitely nice to have some feedback / challenge to my own meanderings
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, they do read books in isolation
Bruce Mowbray: so, I'm thinking maybe one could disagree - and keep a dialogue going.

Pros and cons of flexibility.

Alfred Kelberry: dao, i think it also keeps your mind flexible and fresh
Alfred Kelberry: it's important to have an opposite (or differing) view present
Alfred Kelberry: including here at pab :)
Dao Yheng: and yes, just thinking "that person is a doofus" is a sort of commentary, but rather limited. maybe it would be more beneficial at least to me to get a little more specific about it!
Storm Nordwind: It depends what you're trying to get out of it. For example, is it necessarily good if I take a flexible and fresh attitude to driving a car - and perhaps think that experimenting with driving backwards or on the other side of the road is good?
Storm Nordwind: So there comes a time when applying the fruits of thought may be better in a particular way - just to get practical results.
Dao Yheng: Yes, that's another tricky point for me -- sometimes arguing just turned into nitpicking -- probably better to turn my attention to something that "fits" me better in that case
Storm Nordwind: You can simply ask yourself "Why am I doing this?"
Dao Yheng: That's a good one in all situations!
Storm Nordwind nods and smiles

Assumptions vanish with the sun. :)

Bruce Mowbray: I am assuming that in every Sangha, all participants are praying for the liberation of all - - - no competing to see whose "liberation" is greatest. . .
Storm Nordwind: Not necessarily at all Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: so, the dialogue would take place in a spirit of support - not of competition.
Storm Nordwind: There are some Buddhist schools who concentrate on personal liberation. And some teachers who suggest that while the global approach is good for younger people, aging people (like me) should concentrate more on self
Dao Yheng: Still, basic respect for different approaches and POV is needed -- the blind men and the elephant story
Dao Yheng: oh, that's interesting, Storm -- counter-intuitive to the usual Western view
Dao Yheng: (where old age is the time for passing your wisdom onto the young)
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: Ah... I think it comes from the old Indian saying that the sun gives most light and heat at midday, and is of greater service to all then. In the dwindling twilight there is perhaps not much time left, and one's focus needs to be concentrated!
Dao Yheng: mmm, very humane

We repair to our separate places.

Dao Yheng: Thanks for the conversation today -- very helpful!
Storm Nordwind: It's always a pleasure to have you here :)
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone. I must also be moving on.
Dao Yheng: The pleasure is mine, for sure!
Dao Yheng: bye bruce, bye all!
Bruce Mowbray: May all be ahppy and safe.
Storm Nordwind waves
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye bruce
Bruce Mowbray: happy* ;-)))
Storm Nordwind: I think perhaps I shall return to bed :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: thx for comming out of bed for this storm
Storm Nordwind smiles
Storm Nordwind wonders whether the ice on the pool will bear his weight
Storm Nordwind: Apparently so!
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Yakuzza Lethecus: namaste storm
Alfred Kelberry: meep-meep!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye the 2 of you