2010.12.11 19:00 - Tai Chi

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pema
Pema Pera: and hi observerm
Pema Pera: How's life, Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: where in the world is Pema?
stevenaia Michinaga: Life is interesting :)
Pema Pera: le's see, in Tokyo right now
Pema Pera: was in Kobe until recently
Pema Pera: (near Osaka)
stevenaia Michinaga: you will miss a wet winter storm here tomorrow
Pema Pera: well, I'm happy to leave the fun to you :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Pema Pera: anything interesting about life that you want to share?
Pema Pera: Hi Rhia!
stevenaia Michinaga: seems to be an interesting alignment of Chinese culture here,
Pema Pera: in what way?
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi steve
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Tesss!
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi observam
Tess Aristocrat: hello ㋡
Pema Pera: hi Tess!
Pema Pera: and hi again Observerm

Steven brought up his involvement with Tai Chi.

stevenaia Michinaga: it's been two years since I began Tai Chi, One year with Pila's iChing Discussion group and next week the Tai Chi group is beginig a Tao discussion group in RL
Tess Aristocrat: nice ㋡
stevenaia Michinaga: and the occational discussions here
stevenaia Michinaga: hell Tess, Rhi and observ
observerm Resident: hello
Rhiannon Dragoone: So we're discusswing tai chi and the i ching?
stevenaia Michinaga: I don't think I could have orchastrated such an alignment single handedly two years ago
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi observem; i don't see you; but Tess is grey, steve is a lot of strips and pema is gre except for her hair
Pema Pera: do you do tai chi in real life too? Or is that the name of a group you attend?
stevenaia Michinaga: Not necessarrilly Rhi, I was jsut telling pema what was going on in my life
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, ok
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do Tai Chi in RL
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pema Pera: (and yes, interesting how alignments form :-)
Pema Pera: is there a teacher and a group near where you live, Steve?
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, my teacher teaches a number of classes in the area and we had a one day retreat in november so many of her students were there together and decided to set up a Tao discussion group
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh i finally see you observem!
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure as a group what the body of knowledge wil be
stevenaia Michinaga: but common interest may be enough for exploration
Pema Pera: how interesting, Steve -- fun as SL is, it is of course a wholly different thing to meet with like minded people in RL
--BELL--
Pema Pera: yes, especially a common interest based on physical explorations
Pema Pera: Tess and Observerm, I don't remember having seen you before; nice to meet you both! Have you had some chance to play with the 9-seconds breaks?

I saw from the chat logs that both had been at earlier PaB sessions, so there was no need to introduce PaB to them.  I was curious to hear about their experiences so far, but Tess left and Observerm didn't answer, so I was left with my curiosity.

stevenaia Michinaga: iniially is suggested the conveniene of meeting online since she teached in a 40 mile radius, but that was a foren concept to most
Pema Pera: yes, I can imagine!
Pema Pera: especially without the immersive aspects of SL
stevenaia Michinaga: so we will me in a unitarian church 10 minutes from me :0
Tess Aristocrat: must go, see you all soon ㋡
Pema Pera: bye Tess :)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Tess
Pema Pera: I really enjoyed doing tai chi for a year or so
Pema Pera: we had a great teacher in Manhattan
Pema Pera: a fourth-generation tai chi teacher, fresh from China
Alfred Kelberry: hello, pablings :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Alfred
stevenaia Michinaga: why did you stop?
Pema Pera: very much Chinese, barely understandable in his English
Pema Pera: but extremely understandable in his attitude to life
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pema Pera: I stopped simply because I had too many things to do . . . .
Alfred Kelberry: you still have your 9 seconds :)
Pema Pera: I'd love to continue all kinds of disciplines and practices . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: nods
Pema Pera: hi Alfred!
Pema Pera: and I like to get a good taste of a number of time, but I can't possibly continue all of them simultaneously
Pema Pera: what I liked especially about tai chi and chi gong, both, was that it was easy to do outside, in a park -- as opposed to yoga, unless you live in a very mild climate :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do it in my office from time to time (larget room than home)
stevenaia Michinaga: and outdoors too
stevenaia Michinaga: I am just finding it nice... at my age .. to know I can learn patiently and not be concerned with the destination, but the journey
Pema Pera: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t think I had such an epectation 10 years ago

I found it extremely inspiring to hear Steven's story.

Pema Pera: that's great, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: after two years I have only gone through about 1/3 the three part form
stevenaia Michinaga: 1/2
Pema Pera: yes, it is much more important to take your time
stevenaia Michinaga: with no concern for "the end" because there is no end to matering such a thign
Alfred Kelberry: you do have a destination then, stev? :)
stevenaia Michinaga: *mastering
Pema Pera: it's amazing how you can spend so many hours, just getting one arm movement more and more naturally right
stevenaia Michinaga: not at all
stevenaia Michinaga: no destination
Alfred Kelberry: another 1/2 and you'll be there :)
stevenaia Michinaga: another half and I may know the moves, jsut not well
Pema Pera: what was wonderful about the Manhattan teacher was that he was also a master in caricature: he would show exactly what each of us did wrong, in a somewhat exaggerated way -- much to everybody's merriment :-)
Pema Pera: it's one thing to learn how you should ideally do it right -- it is far more helpful to know and be shown what you're actually doing wrong
stevenaia Michinaga: there is pleanty of that too
stevenaia Michinaga: I found yoga was a bit to intense
stevenaia Michinaga: and tai chi tends to do remarlable thngs to your brain
stevenaia Michinaga: like the extreme version of rub your belly and pat your head
stevenaia Michinaga: which I can nw do better than I ever had before
Pema Pera: yes, I had a similar reaction -- I found it amazing to see how body and mind both get coordinated much better with tai chi (and chi gong)
--BELL--

Steve then brought up an important question, one that none of us had a clear answer to.

stevenaia Michinaga: strange that there is no Judao/Christian/Islamic meditative excerise form
Pema Pera: I'm sure there were -- they just didn't survive well
stevenaia Michinaga: except prayer, which and be done with vigor
stevenaia Michinaga: *can be
Pema Pera: there are the dancing derwishes in Islam
Pema Pera: but that's a bit extreme perhaps :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: nods, yes
Pema Pera: The concept of chi in China, or prana in India, is less pronounced in middle eastern religions like Judaeism, Christianity and Islam
Pema Pera: in christianity the holy spirit comes closest
stevenaia Michinaga: ot not at all
Pema Pera: but rather few forms of christianity invoke the hole ghost/spirit directly -- again it is mostly through prayer
Pema Pera: and then waiting
Pema Pera: like I guess Quakers do
Pema Pera: or evangelical churches in different ways
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pema Pera: it would be interesting to find out what the Easter Orthodox Churches do
Pema Pera: they have a more prominent role for the holy spirit than the Catholic Church
Alfred Kelberry: pema, they make money
Pema Pera: that too -- but so do Chinese chi gong organizations :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: temples need support
Rhiannon Dragoone: well, see you all later
Pema Pera: bye Rhia!
stevenaia Michinaga: night Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: bye pema
Pema Pera: Steve, did you feel any kind of synergy, mutual stimulation, between your tai chi practice and the 9-second breaks of PaB?

Alfred confirmed my impression, from a Russian point of view.

Alfred Kelberry: they use the holy spirit as a key to any doors. it's really prominent approach, indeed.
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure I could tie them together easilly, but have not thought of that :)
Pema Pera: in the Russian Church, for example, Alfred?
Alfred Kelberry: very much so
Pema Pera: in my epxerience, Steve, both tai chi and the short breaks help me to get grounded in my body -- and in my mind at levels below the typical thinking of thick thoughts
stevenaia Michinaga: We have a Russian Church a block away and the preist invited the neighborhood in . he seems to ahve a greater affinity to the jewish neighbors than the chatholic ones:)
Pema Pera: (I mean not very creative thoughts)
Pema Pera: I can well imagine that, Steve!
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: same with local Lebanese and Syrian churches, large population of them here too
stevenaia Michinaga: both Eastern rites
stevenaia Michinaga: or all three
Pema Pera: Interesting! I'd love to know more about that -- unfortunately, all my experience with Christian churches has been with Western European churches or their derivatives
stevenaia Michinaga: mine is strictly by proximity
Pema Pera: It is actually the catholic church that split of from the more original versions, in 1054 (centuries before the Catholic church then split into protestand and catholic)
stevenaia Michinaga: and religiuos social events (good food)
Pema Pera: the main point in the split was that the catholic church wanted to sideline the holy spirit -- too dangerous for the clergy to let people have more direct contact with God; very similar to what they didn't like about protestantism too
Pema Pera: unfortunately, by the time protestantism came along, it was all about prayer, and the richer kinds of discplines seem to have been forgetten, I guess
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting part of a religion to sideline
Pema Pera: the key words in the split in 1054 was "filioque", "also the Son"
stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque
Pema Pera: this meant that also Jesus, the Son, had direct contact with God, being able to bypass the holy spirit -- and from Son you get Church you get Pope -- so the Pope could bypass the chi/prana bit :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: wiki page for almost everything
Pema Pera: very few Christians know this part of the history of their own church, and yet it is so important!
Alfred Kelberry: all they need to know is that god will save them

I had a quick look at the link that Steve had provided.

Pema Pera: thanks for the link, Steve!
Pema Pera: I didn't realize that it started in 589 -- althought the break came in 1054
Pema Pera: such long roots!
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s no small page :)
Pema Pera: :-) and all that from one word!
Pema Pera: I guess it all goes back to the time that Christianity became the official state religion in the Roman empire
stevenaia Michinaga: knew nothing of this :)
Pema Pera: leaving little room for individual tinkering with holy spirit connections
Alfred Kelberry: pema, after many years of meditation practice and learning about yourself and others. do you still have fears? and if yes, how do you deal with them?
Pema Pera: by focusing on the "me" that has fears, not the "fears" that are endless
Pema Pera: seeing that the "I" in "I have fears" or whatever is insubstantial, more like an attitude than a "thing" -- all problems subside
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Pema Pera: using an "I" is like choosing a coordinate system
Pema Pera: you have alternative choices
Pema Pera: but we tend to grow up in a world that doesn't talk much about the other choices
Pema Pera: so much of us go through life firmly believing in an "I", a "self" . . . . pity
Pema Pera: a great pity
Alfred Kelberry: they do - alcohol, drugs, casino :)
Pema Pera: all ways to escape from problems -- but since those ways don't escape from "I" they don't work very well
Pema Pera: escaping from "I" cuts the tree of "having problems" at the root
Alfred Kelberry: well said, pema. thank you.
stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect it encourages compassion as well
--BELL--
Pema Pera: yes, and then compassion takes on a different form, more open -- but that's a great topic to take up later!
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Pema Pera: time for me to move on

An hour had passed, and I had to get back to work, so I will leave the rest of the chat log uncommented.

stevenaia Michinaga: thank Pema
Pema Pera: great talking with you again today!
Pema Pera: bye Steve, Alfred, Observerm!
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, when pema is around, it "encourages" me to listen rather than talk :)
Alfred Kelberry: bye, pema
observerm Resident: thanks.. bye
Pema Pera: Oh, I hope you'll keep talking, Afred! :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: by observ
Pema Pera: bfn
Alfred Kelberry: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I do enjoy listening too
stevenaia Michinaga: hello PAradise
stevenaia Michinaga: Pema jsut left
Alfred Kelberry: oh, para :)
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for the pics, para :)
Paradise Tennant: hiya alftred .. stevenaia
Paradise Tennant: gtsy you both :)
Alfred Kelberry: btw, i have yours... (not a great background, but you look lovely :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: such a sweet box
Alfred Kelberry: http://t.xalan.org/paradise.jpg
stevenaia Michinaga: thx
stevenaia Michinaga: how was your day Paradise?
Alfred Kelberry: stev, i'd like to ask you to take a pic after the session :)
Alfred Kelberry: if you don't mind
stevenaia Michinaga: of you?
Alfred Kelberry: um, no, me taking a picture of you :)
Alfred Kelberry: for a little art project
Paradise Tennant: thank you .. alfred
Alfred Kelberry: (brb)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles, good to see you thinking about the project, I seem to have this strange lag and building of "art project" momentum until something emerges
stevenaia Michinaga: how was your day Paradise
Paradise Tennant: ahh
Paradise Tennant: did taxes
Paradise Tennant: but they are done !
Alfred Kelberry: stev :)
stevenaia Michinaga: strange time of year to do taxes
Paradise Tennant: lol 2009 and 2008 :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I wish they were that patient here
Paradise Tennant: we get three years if you are getting funds back :)
stevenaia Michinaga: nice, a windfall, what took you
Paradise Tennant: sigh just busy ..
Paradise Tennant: not organized
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
Alfred Kelberry: talking of taxes... poor uk students, 3x tuition raise
Paradise Tennant: wow
Paradise Tennant: that is huge
Alfred Kelberry: huge riots too
stevenaia Michinaga: yes,
stevenaia Michinaga: won;t that bankrupt the universities when no one can afford school
Alfred Kelberry: i think parents rather force themselves harder than give up on a higher education for their kids
--BELL--
Paradise Tennant: hmm
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: but 3x seems out of wack
Paradise Tennant: the poor parents will .. be digging deep
Paradise Tennant: what is this month's art project again :) blinking a bit
stevenaia Michinaga: january, date has not been confirmed yet
stevenaia Michinaga: a frind of mine did a transformation study off avatars and RL pictures of me and several others for a RL art project, I may ahve her add the current me to that
stevenaia Michinaga: for the project
Paradise Tennant: smiles a blending of the real and surreal
stevenaia Michinaga: linking surreal to virtual
Alfred Kelberry: transformation project?
Alfred Kelberry: can you tell more?
Alfred Kelberry: hey, i am not surreal. i'm a real boxy :)
stevenaia Michinaga: it was a series of three images one of RL me, on of SL me and a lending of the two inbtween
Alfred Kelberry: is it online?
Alfred Kelberry: can i see it>
Paradise Tennant: smiles at the real alftred :)
Alfred Kelberry: great idea
stevenaia Michinaga: I will look for it somewhere
Alfred Kelberry: thank you
Alfred Kelberry: i see a large spatious gallery with huge photographs hanging on the walls, of stev and other pablings in the blend of rl and sl :)
Alfred Kelberry: i'd love to visit such an exhibition in rl :)
stevenaia Michinaga: the link no longer exists, I will talk to the artist
Alfred Kelberry: oh
Alfred Kelberry: thank you, stev
stevenaia Michinaga: it was aprt of a RL exhibit
Alfred Kelberry: yes, i figured. very nice idea.
Paradise Tennant: think I have seen it
Paradise Tennant: you posted it somewhere
Paradise Tennant: blinking
stevenaia Michinaga: it was a while ago
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: just cannot remember where
Paradise Tennant: on the pab site ?
stevenaia Michinaga: no, it was a univerity proejt
stevenaia Michinaga: project
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: *feels comfy and joyful sitting between two lovely women* :)
stevenaia Michinaga: smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting, found first PAB RL Dinner photo
Alfred Kelberry: aww, cute, para :)
Paradise Tennant: smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: thx PAradise
Alfred Kelberry: i for some reason have lost my smile though :/
stevenaia Michinaga: you need to sit up Alfred
Alfred Kelberry: sit up?
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, i have a smile, but it's not on your pic, para
Alfred Kelberry: here para took a shot of me with blue, stev :)
Alfred Kelberry: really good one
Alfred Kelberry: haha
stevenaia Michinaga: is that your smile
Alfred Kelberry: so cute :) thank you, para :)
Alfred Kelberry: stev, i think it's about graphics settings
Paradise Tennant: yes
Paradise Tennant: the setting make a big difference :))
Paradise Tennant: you know I am going to scoot to hear max kleene and beth odets do a duo ... anyone interested in listening for a few moments :)
Alfred Kelberry: here in sl?
Paradise Tennant: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds lovely, tp me pls
Alfred Kelberry: i'd love to
Paradise Tennant: okes
Alfred Kelberry: i don't know the names though
Paradise Tennant: okies give me a moment
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: stev, let's take a pic quickly?
stevenaia Michinaga: where?
Alfred Kelberry: um, looking... :)