The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

This session seemed to explore both sides of the question of being open to experience and learning as well as protecting self and others from the erosion which naivete, cynicism, doubt etc. 

Wol Euler: hello ewan  
Ewan Bonham: Hi Max!
Wol Euler: hello maxine
Maxine Walden: hi, Ewan, and Wol
Wol Euler: maxine, you have a new top, and a vest. Nice.
Wol Euler: changing appearance for Bleu's project?
Maxine Walden: thanks, yes...
Maxine Walden: well, maybe...actually also to get rid of the mysterious stripes I seem to get in tp ing...
Wol Euler: heh, yes

Wol was sporting a sweet looking dear head, small anters, tail, and red bikini with human skin.   

Maxine Walden: but your outfit, changed av for the project?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Maxine Walden: may I ask how it changes your experience?
Wol Euler: since I already do male/female and young/old and skinny/fat, there didn't seem much point in trying those
Wol Euler: it feels different, that is for sure
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler: I now wish that I'd created an alt for this, because it feels wrong to say "wol" when talking about this furry.
Wol Euler: perhaps I'll have to just assign her a name in my thoughts.
Maxine Walden: hmmm
Wol Euler: I'd always fought shy of trying furry avs, felt that I had to be human.
Wol Euler: and I notice that I have stripped off most of her furriness except the head and tail
Maxine Walden: hmm, 'had to be' or 'it just did not occur' to not be human?
Wol Euler: had to be, it did occur to me to try furry avs.
Maxine Walden: interesting...
Wol Euler: I felt really uncomfortable in fur, the first few times
Maxine Walden: oh...think I can relate to that discomfort...
Wol Euler: felt lost, in a way, didn't know how to behave but felt that I should behave differntly somehow
Wol Euler: not a very "wu wei" approach
Maxine Walden: :)
Wol Euler: so perhaps PaB is to thank for being able to do it now
Maxine Walden: yes, maybe so (chuckles)
Maxine Walden: Ewan, not meaning to leave you out of the conversation

As Ewan seemed afk I turned back to Wol with another question

Maxine Walden: But, Wol, if I may use that name, how was Japan? Not sure I have really had the chance to ask.
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: it was wonderful. I loved every minute of it.
Maxine Walden: can imagine...
Wol Euler: great food, beautiful buildings, lovely weather, excellent food, nice people, and the perfect season: glorious fall colours
Maxine Walden: sounds spectacular in many ways
Wol Euler: it was
Maxine Walden: How long were you there?
Wol Euler: two weeks exactly
Maxine Walden: ah...
Wol Euler: two days in Tokyo, one in Fukuoka, the rest in Kyoto
Maxine Walden: don't know Fukuoka; a variety of experience then
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: I liked kyoto best.
Wol Euler: Tokyo is hard work, too many people, too much to do
Maxine Walden: care to say why?
Wol Euler: big cities have their bigness in common. London is much like Manhattan is much like Berlin
Wol Euler: smaller cities have more specific characters
Maxine Walden: interesting perception...
Maxine Walden: sorry Ewan left...hope he did not feel shut out...
--BELL--

We were then joined by Dash and began a conversation about the weather,but really about the lack of protection which can come from indifference.  It seemed like Dash felt warmly received and thus a place to bring considerable grievance 

Wol Euler: hello dash, nice to see you again
Dash Earthboy: howdy
Maxine Walden: hi, Dash
Dash Earthboy: hey
Dash Earthboy: i've got snow today
Dash Earthboy: :(
Wol Euler: up to 20 inches in parts of the Midwest, I heard.
Maxine Walden: oh, my
Maxine Walden: Where are you located, Dash?
Dash Earthboy: Georgia near Atlanta
Maxine Walden: ah, unusual, I would guess, Dash to have snow in that part of the world
Dash Earthboy: the cold temps and windchill have me even more concerned than the dusting of snow
Maxine Walden: how cold and windchill is it?
Maxine Walden: windchilly
Dash Earthboy: i have already started my water dripping to prevent pipe bursts in the crawlspace from freeze up
Maxine Walden: yes, guess there are lots of those housekeeping chores to keep in mind in such cold
Dash Earthboy: it's only 29 now with a wind chill of about 23
Maxine Walden: burr.
Wol Euler: cold enough if the houses aren't built for it
Maxine Walden: yes!
Dash Earthboy: but I have had crawlspace pipe bursts in as little as 29
Dash Earthboy: y'all know I'm talking Fahrenheit, right?
Wol Euler: heheheh
Maxine Walden: ah, they are very sensitive pipes
Dash Earthboy: to add to the problem some unscruplous plumbers tore out my sub-floor insulation (around the pipes too) when they were looking for a leak that ended up being from my water heater
Dash Earthboy: the pipes are pvc
Maxine Walden: Oh, dear, sounds really problematic! So sorry
Dash Earthboy: cheapest the builders can get away with
Maxine Walden: so sorry...
Wol Euler: :(
Maxine Walden: cutting corners can be so costly, and so painful
Dash Earthboy: well, the county is run by developers
Maxine Walden: especially to the unsuspecting 'others' , the recipients'
Dash Earthboy: yes
Wol Euler: yes, the developer is long gone by the time the problems appear
Wol Euler: the buildrs too, often enough
Dash Earthboy: i worked for the county in planning & zoning, code enforcement & such
Wol Euler: company goes bankrupt, but if you dial the phone number a day later the same person answers with a different company name
Maxine Walden: grrr!
Dash Earthboy: that's where I got involved with GIS work
Maxine Walden: GIS?
--BELL--

Our discussion then seemed to embrace the effects of indifference embedded in corruption

Dash Earthboy: oh, some of the county leaders have bankrupted several of their companies to avoid litigation
Wol Euler nods
Maxine Walden: seems like a criminal dodge of responsibility
Dash Earthboy: GIS is Geographic Information Systems or Geospatial Info Systems
Wol Euler: unethical if not illegal
Maxine Walden: have not known about these systems
Dash Earthboy: yes the leaders and many of the county employees are church-going criminals
Maxine Walden: !!
Dash Earthboy: so they had to get me out after I exposed a little of it to the governor, who had close ties with them
Dash Earthboy: not a good place to stay for me
Maxine Walden: oh, my,what an experience, Dash!
Maxine Walden: make you a bit cynical?
Dash Earthboy: i've have worked for peace and social justice since 1970
Maxine Walden: much more ethical, I would imagine
Dash Earthboy: and worked for the government in Georgia as a social worker before working for this county
Dash Earthboy: i try to evoke change from within the system if possible
Dash Earthboy: like my man Frank Church
Dash Earthboy: or George McGovern

SophiaSharon then joined us.  Dash continued to tell us about his experience.

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
Wol Euler: hello sharon
Maxine Walden: hi, Sophia
Dash Earthboy: hi Sophia
Maxine Walden: We are talking about ethics ...among other things
SophiaSharon Larnia: :) thank you
Dash Earthboy: tonight I'll do laundry and vent the dryer under the house into the crawl space
Wol Euler: good idea
Maxine Walden: ...to warm up the pipes...
Dash Earthboy: it's too windy to use my small fireplace right now
Dash Earthboy: i only burn deadfall and junk mail
Maxine Walden: :)
Maxine Walden: good use for junk mail...
SophiaSharon Larnia: right :)
Dash Earthboy: but my neighbors tear down trees and burn them just create a area to run their off road vehicles in illegally
Dash Earthboy: and noisily

And then Yakuzza and Zon came by.

SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Yakuzza and Zon
Wol Euler: brb
Yakuzza Lethecus: good evening everyone
Dash Earthboy: hi Yaku, hi Zen
Maxine Walden: oh, Dash, what a pain...and frustration...
Maxine Walden: hi, Yaku,
Zon Kwan: heya all
Maxine Walden: hi, zon
Dash Earthboy: yes, i'm trying to leave to relocate to a more humane and less corrupt environment
Dash Earthboy: but now will delay till after the holidays
Dash Earthboy: only two help wanted ads in the county newspaper today and both were bogus for a commercial school
Wol Euler: hello yaku, zon
Maxine Walden: Hope it goes well, Dash.
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Dash Earthboy: all i've wanted since 1982 was a simple life like I had on a remote TN farm then
Dash Earthboy: thanx max
SophiaSharon Larnia: that all i still want :)

We began to wonder about 'the good old days', that is our memory of earlier, more innocent times, and at some points, whether such memories were realistic or reflected something about of whether the lens of memory may distort.  Wending its way through here as well may have been the inner vulnerability to 'impoverished resources' when our energies and self esteem are not well protected.

Maxine Walden: We all harken back to a more innocent time, perhaps?
Maxine Walden: when life seemed simpler maybe...
Dash Earthboy: i had plenty of food provided by nature and first call on the ground water with a gravity fed system (no pumps needed)
Dash Earthboy: 50 acres were in trees and I burned deadfall to heat as well as eat
Yakuzza Lethecus: seemed, is a good word, considering the fact how simple it is to talk to ppl whom are at like the westcoast of the usa today even by accident :)
Dash Earthboy: a big wood stove
SophiaSharon Larnia: with the innocence was yearning to learn about the world, i dont wish to have that yearning :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: that kind anyway
Dash Earthboy: the world has often come to me
Dash Earthboy: nice way to learn
Dash Earthboy: from missionaries
Dash Earthboy: artists
SophiaSharon Larnia: being innocent sometimes you just throw yourself at it
Maxine Walden: :)
Maxine Walden: Yaku, did not quite understand your point, would you just repeat it?
--BELL--
Dash Earthboy: even had an exchange student from Colombia my senior year of high school
Maxine Walden: lots of interesting experiences seem to come your way, Dash. Nice when it goes well
Dash Earthboy: yes
Maxine Walden: Guess the thing is to be open to new experience but also try to learn from the past so as not to be 'stung' by naivte
Dash Earthboy: but even for the exchange student I had to arrange for school system to pay my mother to aloow him to stay
Dash Earthboy: never have been very wealthy
Dash Earthboy: mostly below the poverty line for income each year
Dash Earthboy: but I'm adroit with managing money
Maxine Walden: hmm, even the good things cost...so learning and protective boundaries might be important
Maxine Walden: to protect our inner resources...our self esteem, our energies
Yakuzza Lethecus: what i meant before was just the aspect that in retrospect the bast seemed simpler and more innocent but is that just a trick of our mind ?
Dash Earthboy: oh I've seen complexities grow through the years Yaku
Maxine Walden: ah, thanks, yes think I understand your point, and agree that it may be out of longing that the past seems so much simpler..
Dash Earthboy: I've cautioned people to only use technology in business to the point where it makes them more efficient and productive
Maxine Walden: Indeed we each may have very different experiences, but in general, my experience, at least has been that longing for the past often paints it as a much 'better' time
Wol Euler: we improve it in memory, yes
Dash Earthboy: yet I continue to encounter many technophobes who deny any technology influences their lives
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
Maxine Walden: ah, perhaps, Dash. We may fear acknowledging what we donn't know much about, fear of 'not knowing'
Dash Earthboy: yes some people do glorify the past
Maxine Walden: or fear that the 'others' know all about this technology, which can us feel small
Dash Earthboy: i only have a few periods in the past that I would consider better
Dash Earthboy: but much of the past has been as bad or worse
Dash Earthboy: i think it's important to learn from history so we don't repeat it
Dash Earthboy: unless it's good!
SophiaSharon Larnia: remember that :)
Dash Earthboy: wow Max, I guess my getting to meet famous people earlier in life helped me not to feel small around towers of power and wisdom
Dash Earthboy: meet famous people
Dash Earthboy: lag problems again today
SophiaSharon Larnia: to see that they are just people? :))
Maxine Walden: great, Dash. A great lesson!
Dash Earthboy: yes
Dash Earthboy: and they seemed to like to share that wisdom with me
Maxine Walden: Lucky you, Dash, in my own experience wisdom often comes from painful experience or things we just as soon not have to face...letting go of the pain while learning from the experience can be difficult
Dash Earthboy: a couple of Los Angeles movie music people even invited me to stay with them one summer early in college
Dash Earthboy: but that summer I was a good son and went home to paint my mothers house & garage
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ewan and Qt
Dash Earthboy: that made me ineligible for resident tuition rates when I came back in the fall

Shortly before I had to leave we were joined by stevenaia, Qt and Ewan rejoined as as well.

Maxine Walden: hi, Qt, and Ewan
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Steven
Maxine Walden: And hi Steve...
Wol Euler: hello qt, hello steven
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Dash Earthboy: hi Qt, hi Ewan
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey steve
stevenaia Michinaga: gtsy all
Yakuzza Lethecus: and ewan
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: late as it is
Dash Earthboy: hey steve
Maxine Walden: I have to go, will look forward to seeing from the log the rest of the conversation...
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye max
Wol Euler: 'night maxine, take care
Maxine Walden: bye all, hope to see you all soon...
Dash Earthboy: bye Max, nice to see ya again
stevenaia Michinaga: bye maxine
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Maxine
stevenaia Michinaga: we make an interesting combination Yak
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i got it too lol
Dash Earthboy: wow, wol, is it after midnight there yet?
SophiaSharon Larnia: on my harddrive
Wol Euler: 11pm
Dash Earthboy: late enough huh?
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: I'm starting to fade
SophiaSharon Larnia: smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: have a good week Wol
Wol Euler: oh, I'm not gone yet
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but i will, i have to be up at 5 am :(
Yakuzza Lethecus: good night
Dash Earthboy: hope y'all have a great week...night all
Qt Core: 'night yaku
Wol Euler: 'night yaku
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye Yaku :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: and Dash
Wol Euler: bye dash
SophiaSharon Larnia: would you guys like to see the retreat space? Maybe tell me if something needs to be moved. I have to finish by tonight
Wol Euler: sure
SophiaSharon Larnia: my night anyway :)
stevenaia Michinaga: lead the way
SophiaSharon Larnia: let me give you lm
Qt Core: y
Ewan Bonham: Yes...