The Guardian for this meeting was Yakuzza. Eliza posted this log due to (her own) requested editing.

Sunshine Zurivost: Hello Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Sunshine :)
Sunshine Zurivost: I realize Cat you are on my alt Spring friend list
Sunshine Zurivost: not sure when we met before ㋡
Catrinamonblue Resident: I'm a friend of Druth's
Catrinamonblue Resident: probably though her :)
Sunshine Zurivost: oh yes!

Catrinamonblue Resident: I think that was when I first started into SL and was just learning bout things :)
Sunshine Zurivost: oh are you rather new to sl?
Catrinamonblue Resident: This av is my first and only :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: So just sence the end of September
Sunshine Zurivost: oh so your less then a yr old
Sunshine Zurivost: I been on for 3 yrs
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes

--BELL--

Sunshine Zurivost: oh u have a shoulder pet how cute
Catrinamonblue Resident: this one is giving me much trouble trying to get it set just right :)
Sunshine Zurivost: aww
Sunshine Zurivost: while we wait for others to join us
Sunshine Zurivost: do u feel there are unwritten rules between friends
Catrinamonblue Resident: I think it depends on how close the relationship is but for the most part yes there are concerning respect and honesty
Sunshine Zurivost: while in this case my friend is dating a guy she knows I have feelings for and knew first
Sunshine Zurivost: and I told her it just not something friends do to each other

Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Zon
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Zon
Zon Kwan: heya
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Bruce
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Yaku
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: good evening everyone
Bruce Mowbray: Good afternoon -- Good evening -- Good night, everyone!

Catrinamonblue Resident: Sun if it was me in that position then I would have a frank discussion with the friend expressing my hurt
Sunshine Zurivost: ㋡ that covers every time zone
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bruce
Sunshine Zurivost: oh we have she said am selfish and don't want her happy
Bruce Mowbray: afk for just a sec... be right back....
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Sunshine Zurivost: Hurry Baaack!!!
Bruce Mowbray: [back....!]
Sunshine Zurivost: wb
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb
Bruce Mowbray: ty!
Zon Kwan: hi bruce with horns

Sunshine Zurivost: Cat and I were talking about unwritten rules between friends
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zon-ji!
Yakuzza Lethecus: please tell more
Bruce Mowbray listens closely to catch the drift...
Sunshine Zurivost: I have a friend that is dating a guy she knows I have feeling for and knew first
Sunshine Zurivost: I told her friends do not do that to each other
Sunshine Zurivost: she said am selfish and do not want her happy

Bruce Mowbray: [welcome, druth...]
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey druth
Sunshine Zurivost: Druth!
druth Vlodovic: hi guys
Catrinamonblue Resident: HI Druth
Zon Kwan: hi druth
Bruce Mowbray wonders if friends of friends can also be friends...
Zon Kwan: in love and war all rules fade away...
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Wol!
Sunshine Zurivost: giggles at Bruce comment
Wol Euler: evening all!
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Wol
Wol Euler: happy friday
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Wol
Zon Kwan: hi wol
Yakuzza Lethecus: nabend wol
druth Vlodovic: hi wol
Wol Euler waves.

Bruce Mowbray: Do you want your friends to be happy, then?
Sunshine Zurivost: not at the expense of hurting me
Bruce Mowbray: Hmmm. I can understand that....
Zon Kwan: selfishness against selfishness ?
Sunshine Zurivost: and they both said they knew I be hurt
Bruce Mowbray: not necessarily agree, but at least understand...
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.

Bruce Mowbray: If a friend is somehow made happier as a person to be with someone else than to be with me. . .
Zon Kwan: my happiness or yours ?

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray: Would I want that person to be happier?
Sunshine Zurivost: I should mention this is not the first time
Sunshine Zurivost: same 2 ppl last time she call it off said our friendship ment more to her then he did

Zon Kwan: is a friend someone that supports your goals ?
druth Vlodovic: if the fellow did it to you once...
Sunshine Zurivost: a friend should care and support you
Zon Kwan: nods
Sunshine Zurivost: not do something they know will hurt you for their own gain
Bruce Mowbray adds one more item to list of reasons why he's a hermit.

druth Vlodovic: falling in love is seldom measured by the same tape as other matters
druth Vlodovic: though it must be quite painful for you
Wol Euler nods.
Sunshine Zurivost: sigh true

Zon Kwan: friends are persons who support each others goals
Sunshine Zurivost: nods
druth Vlodovic: one must be careful,though, not to sublimate one's emotions in a damaging direction
druth Vlodovic: I'm not sure I'd agree with that Zon
druth Vlodovic: that would be an ally

Zon Kwan: is a friend someone who opposes your goals ?
druth Vlodovic: friends often disagree with one another, and it is awful to see two friends "break up" over a disagreement
Zon Kwan: disagreement with means is healthy
Zon Kwan: not on goals
druth Vlodovic: a friend is someone who would tell you if they thought you would hurt yourself with a goal

Bruce Mowbray: Imagine being in competition with other actors and actresses for an Academy Award (an Oscar) - - - and your friend actually WINS it. How do you feel?
Sunshine Zurivost: yes who can be honest with you
Zon Kwan: i mean goal in wide sense
Zon Kwan: like..direction
Bruce Mowbray listens.
Zon Kwan: or aim in life
druth Vlodovic: hopefully you would be able to express both disappointment at losing and joy at them winning
druth Vlodovic: a good friend could take both
Sunshine Zurivost: I think in case of the awards you know ahead only one can win
Sunshine Zurivost: I rather my friend win then someone else
Bruce Mowbray: (not also with lovers, then?)
Zon Kwan: or values
druth Vlodovic: depends on the values
Sunshine Zurivost: no with loves it has deeper emotions
Bruce Mowbray: and also depends on the lovers, perhaps.

druth Vlodovic: the difference between a betrayal and a mistake is often in knowing that the other's person's values are different than your own
Zon Kwan: what is friendship then ?
Sunshine Zurivost: a friend would not want to take someone they knew you were interested that an unwritten rule
Zon Kwan: how is it different from allies
Bleu Oleander: hi friends :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Bleu.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Bleu

Wol Euler: at the very least, the friend owes it to you to discuss it beforehand IMHO
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Bleu
Zon Kwan: hi bleu
Wol Euler: hello bleu
Catrinamonblue Resident: I agree with Wol :) there should have been a discussion
druth Vlodovic: I should think the man in question gets a vote, even though they shouldn't, that is the modern rule
Zon Kwan: what if your friend falls in love with him
Zon Kwan: and he in her
Bruce Mowbray ponders the saying, "Alls fair in love and war..."
Zon Kwan: can you still be her friend
Sunshine Zurivost: that am not sure of
Sunshine Zurivost: since this is the second time she done it with the same person
druth Vlodovic: friends are worth more than lovers
Zon Kwan: can you control love ?
druth Vlodovic: generally :)
Bruce Mowbray agrees with druth on that one
Sunshine Zurivost: and she knows what my reaction was going to be

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hey Aggers
Catrinamonblue Resident: Question Sun - where you in a relationship with the guy in question? Did he know of your interest?
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey aga
Wol Euler: hello aggers
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Agatha
Agatha Macbeth: Howdy
Agatha Macbeth: I see a lot of clouds
Zon Kwan: hi agatha
Wol Euler: it
Sunshine Zurivost: yes we were at one time and she knows am still interested in him
Wol Euler: it#s cloud computing
Agatha Macbeth: Ah so that's what that is
Bleu Oleander: or just cloudy

Agatha Macbeth: I like cloudy lemonade
druth Vlodovic: funny, it just occurred to me that some people wouldn't trust a different reaction, thinking it not "genuine"
Sunshine Zurivost: should lemonade be cloudy?
druth Vlodovic: good lemonade, with little seeds and pulp in it
Agatha Macbeth: Dunno, but it tastes nice
Korel Laloix: If made right, yes.... homemade.
Bleu Oleander: pulpy cloudy
Catrinamonblue Resident: I make it homemade :)
Sunshine Zurivost: ahh had not had for long time
druth Vlodovic: let the kids drink the canned stuff :)
Korel Laloix: Great stuff really.
Bleu Oleander: noooo
Agatha Macbeth: Yes they can have the pepsi
Sunshine Zurivost: oh I will take the pepsi
Agatha Macbeth: OK
druth Vlodovic: more lemonade for aga and me
Catrinamonblue Resident: and me :)
Sunshine Zurivost: ㋡
druth Vlodovic: ☻

Wol Euler: ten years ago I was in a similar situation, a person I was deeply enamoured of fell in love with my best friend
Wol Euler: it was devastating, but I didn't actually break up with either of them
Agatha Macbeth: Owww
Catrinamonblue Resident: hugs Wol
Sunshine Zurivost: so it natural to be hurt
Wol Euler: fortunately I had booked a month away just when this happened, so I had this enforced cooling-down period :)
Agatha Macbeth: Didn't Elvis write a song about that?
Wol Euler: and with ten years' hindsight I would now truthfully say "thank god I didn't end up there", because they have an awful relationship
Agatha Macbeth grins
Wol Euler: I was entirely mistaken about the person's true nature and personality

Agatha Macbeth: The grace of God and all that

Sunshine Zurivost: ㋡ that what I would hope for in this case
Wol Euler: so: perhaps she is doing you a favour by taking this guy out of your way
druth Vlodovic: send them an "I told you so"card for their anniversary
Wol Euler: heheheheh
Sunshine Zurivost: she told me for months to stay away from him he only hurts me
Catrinamonblue Resident: lol
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Sunshine Zurivost: giggles
Bruce Mowbray: Sometimes we live on the rim of the wheel -- Other times we live at the hub . . . Perhaps it's a choice. . . perhaps not.
Wol Euler: sun, I have to agree

Wol Euler: the damned thing about affection is that it only projects outward, one cannot make it reflect back to oneself
Sunshine Zurivost: nods
Catrinamonblue Resident: true
Wol Euler: it may do so, and when it does you call yourself lucky and enjoy it
Wol Euler: but there is no way to make that happen
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
druth Vlodovic: hmm, I wonder if she told you to stay away from him because they were together, or if she just forgot her own advice
Sunshine Zurivost: that came up the first time she was with him
Wol Euler: perhaps he'd been hitting on her behind your back the whole time, and she didn't want to tell you the details
Wol Euler: just trying to hint at you
druth Vlodovic: mind you
Wol Euler: maybe I should shut up while I'm ahead ...

druth Vlodovic: is personal speculation better than random rumours?
Sunshine Zurivost: oh no it nothing I have not thought myself
druth Vlodovic: ever heard of "second arrow" harm?
Sunshine Zurivost: no
druth Vlodovic: a warrior gets shot with an arrow
druth Vlodovic: but it is barbed so he can't get it out
druth Vlodovic: casting about for a knife all he finds is another arrow
druth Vlodovic: but in prying at the first one with the second he opens the wound
druth Vlodovic: and bleeds to death
druth Vlodovic: he was hurt by the enemie's attack
druth Vlodovic: but killed by his own actions in regards to it
Agatha Macbeth: He got the point
Bleu Oleander: gruesome
druth Vlodovic: lol
Bruce Mowbray: :(
Sunshine Zurivost: that is something to think about
druth Vlodovic: two in fact :)
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Sunshine Zurivost: ㋡

--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: so our own actions can cause us more pain than the original actions of others?
Sunshine Zurivost: I can see that happening
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Eliza
Bleu Oleander: hey Eliza :)
druth Vlodovic: hey Eliza
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Liz ♥
Catrinamonblue Resident: obsessing on things that can not be changed
Catrinamonblue Resident: Hi Eliza :)
Bruce Mowbray: Heya, Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi everyone :) ty for the note Ya :)
Sunshine Zurivost: yes
Zon Kwan: eliza:)

Eliza Madrigal: natural pause?
Wol Euler: waiting for you to catch up :)
Wol Euler grins.
Eliza Madrigal: how generous!
Eliza Madrigal: :::beams::: lol
Agatha Macbeth: Liz break
Wol Euler smiles.
Sunshine Zurivost: ㋡
Eliza Madrigal: well I have few opinions on lemonade
Sunshine Zurivost: lol
Wol Euler: not a purist?
Agatha Macbeth: Yay
Bruce Mowbray suspects that there is not a one of us who has not experienced what Sun has told us about. . .
Agatha Macbeth: With ice
druth Vlodovic: "don't make it with beans"
Bleu Oleander: pulpy or not?
Eliza Madrigal: like it for the style of the locals wherever I happen to be
Eliza Madrigal: yeah... maybe no beans :)
Wol Euler remembers citron pressée in Paris and smiles

Sunshine Zurivost: so it seems maybe there are not unwritten rules among friends
Eliza Madrigal: each friendship is unique as well?
Zon Kwan: choose right friends
Wol Euler nods.
Agatha Macbeth: Unwritten rules is an oxymoron anyway
druth Vlodovic: easy to make rules,hard to apply them in all instances

Bruce Mowbray doesn't know if there are unwritten rules or not -- But does know that there are LOTS of "stories.." - that we tell ourselves.
Zon Kwan: often they are my rules
Catrinamonblue Resident: nods to Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: "who would I be without the story ________....?"

druth Vlodovic: not to mention that the "punishment" has to be worse for the one it is applied to than the one applying it :)
Wol Euler nods to Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: what do you mean Druth?
druth Vlodovic: well, you could say "these people are rotten, I'll never speak to them again!"
Sunshine Zurivost: I understand Druth
druth Vlodovic: but then you've just lost two friends
Sunshine Zurivost: but they don't care they have each other
Sunshine Zurivost: yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: you don't know that they don't care, even though they have each other they may be sad to lose you too
Eliza Madrigal nods thoughtfully

Zon Kwan: my friend obeys my rules
Sunshine Zurivost: then they would not have started this relationship in the first place
druth Vlodovic: you only have one?
Sunshine Zurivost: giggles at Zon comment
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: if that's the bar for friendship I can understand why just one :)

Sunshine Zurivost: maybe that the whole problem there my rules not thiers
Zon Kwan: nods
Sunshine Zurivost: its what I would not do
druth Vlodovic: of course, for love even one's own iron clad rules get broken

Catrinamonblue Resident: understand that one
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Zon Kwan: rules are for marriage..not for love
druth Vlodovic: this is why so many stories and legends are written around it
Sunshine Zurivost: is there not love in marriage?
Zon Kwan: no
Wol Euler: O.O
druth Vlodovic: poor Kwan
Bruce Mowbray: not much in mine, I'm sad to report.
Zon Kwan: marriage is a contract
druth Vlodovic: "go together like a horse and carriage!"
Sunshine Zurivost: I so understand Bruce
Zon Kwan: one cannot make a contract of love
Wol Euler: and yet people marry every hour, zon, and most of them would say that they did so because they were in love
Eliza Madrigal: am sure it is more complex
Wol Euler: are they deluded?
Zon Kwan: yes most say so
druth Vlodovic: perhaps we need more simple and direct contracts for living together and raising kids

Wol Euler: so you think they are wrong?
Zon Kwan: i know they are wrong
Catrinamonblue Resident: really???
Wol Euler: fascinating! do explain how you know this
druth Vlodovic: like in the good old days when our parents and relatives decided our marriages for us
Zon Kwan: one cannot agree on never changing
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps more naive than wrong... and more to be pitied than censored.
Eliza Madrigal: this is true Zon...
Zon Kwan: that is delusion
Eliza Madrigal: the history of the contract .. or rather convenant, of marriage is multifaceted

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray wonders how his parents could decide a good marriage for him... since they did such a bad job of deciding for themselves.
Zon Kwan: marriage is an institution, love is a different issue
druth Vlodovic: I'm curious about your cultural background Zon
Zon Kwan: like church and religion
Zon Kwan: different things
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps we have objectivied and dumbed down love, calling it just one thing, ie "romantic" love... early on: based in love but also love of tribe/community etc?
Zon Kwan: culture is conditioning
Bruce Mowbray: or "religion" and "spirituality..."
druth Vlodovic: which is why I'm asking

Bruce Mowbray feels that the two most dangerous inventions of our species might be gun powder and romantic love.
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Zon Kwan: romantic love is nice
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, it is
Eliza Madrigal: and I guess part of what Sunshine is expressing is that one should know the rules for gunpowder before playing with it? :))
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, like white water rafting and roller coasters.
Wol Euler smiles.
Zon Kwan: like chockolade
Zon Kwan: lovely to enjoy

druth Vlodovic: Love cuts through defences and makes a mockery of rules
Agatha Macbeth: Yes doesn't it just
Wol Euler: hello zen
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen :)
druth Vlodovic: it's said to be powerful because it does carry people down stream like a torrent
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
druth Vlodovic: hey zen
Zon Kwan: zen bro
Sunshine Zurivost: Hi Zen
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Mr DJ :)
Zen Arado: Hi all
Catrinamonblue Resident: sometimes the people involved get swept up in the emotions they feel, not understanding the consequences of their actions
Bruce Mowbray ponders something bigger than ourselves guiding these adventures in "love."
Catrinamonblue Resident: the possible hurt to other people
Bruce Mowbray: (Remembers Aphrodite -- and her mischief. (Not OUR Aph, of course, but the other one.)
Zon Kwan: love is the desire to unite
Bruce Mowbray doubts that we are really in charge of our loving.
Zon Kwan: nope
Catrinamonblue Resident: to our sorrow
Zen Arado: or anything
Zen Arado: :)

Eliza Madrigal: does seem to upend everything
Zen Arado: our carefully laid plans
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes
Eliza Madrigal: maybe also it is that we don't know how to communicate complexity
Zen Arado: gang awry
Zon Kwan: or our rules
Bruce Mowbray: e.e. cummings wrote: "be of love a little more careful than of everything."
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Eliza that is part of it
druth Vlodovic: there is a legend about eros marrying memnosyne (I think), love and mind together, lol
Agatha Macbeth: Good old e.e.
Bruce Mowbray: :)
druth Vlodovic: doesn't seem to have worked out
Bruce Mowbray: eros and psyche.
druth Vlodovic: right, thanks :)
druth Vlodovic: the divorce must have been a killer
Agatha Macbeth: Wonder who got the dog?

Eliza Madrigal: so Zon if in love with someone then would not commit for fear of sealing its fate?
Wol Euler grins.
Zon Kwan: didnt get that eliza
Bruce Mowbray: http://visionsofwhimsy.blogspot.com/...nd-psyche.html
Eliza Madrigal: if marriage or commitment (which doesn't have to be on paper) is opposite of love, introducing rules, then what is the alternative
Bruce Mowbray: Hermithood?
Zon Kwan: love
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Celibacy?
Sunshine Zurivost: might not be so bad Bruce
Zon Kwan: love
Eliza Madrigal: "get thee to a nunnery"
Zon Kwan: love
Bruce Mowbray ponders: "It sure works well for me!"
Bruce Mowbray: (having tried many alternatives).

Wol Euler wonders what "love" means to Zon, in this context
Bruce Mowbray looks to Zon.
druth Vlodovic leans forward and listens for more from Bruce
Agatha Macbeth pulls Druth out of the water
Bruce Mowbray leans forward and listens for more from Zon.
Eliza Madrigal giggles
druth Vlodovic: thanks :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Sunshine Zurivost: giggling
Agatha Macbeth: YW :)

Zon Kwan: love is an attitude
Zon Kwan: not a contract
Catrinamonblue Resident: not a promise?
Eliza Madrigal: yes I think I do understand you.... nothing more loving than an open door sometimes
Catrinamonblue Resident: to have and to hold till death do us part?
Bruce Mowbray: Perhaps love is a shared hope.... that comes not to be shared quite so much.
Catrinamonblue Resident: I like that Bruce

--BELL--

Bruce Mowbray thinks he better leave on a 'high note." THANKS, everyone.
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bruce :)
Sunshine Zurivost: have good day Bruce
Zen Arado: bye Bruce
Wol Euler: bye bruce, take care
Wol Euler: wb yaku
Agatha Macbeth: C ya Brucie
Zon Kwan: cat..thats a contract
Wol Euler: so what?
Eliza Madrigal: a form with an expiration date but for some it lasts most of lifetime
Wol Euler: why not make a contract, if they wish?

Zon Kwan: nothing wrong in contracts
Zon Kwan: thats just not love
Catrinamonblue Resident: I feel that love is a promise
druth Vlodovic: when expectations aren't met
druth Vlodovic: people rely too much on each other
Zon Kwan: its trading
druth Vlodovic: love turns to hate

Catrinamonblue Resident: to accept me as me
Catrinamonblue Resident: and I accept you as you

Sunshine Zurivost: excuse me I must return to rl ty all for your insight
druth Vlodovic: have fun sun
Eliza Madrigal: bye Sunshine
Zen Arado: byee Sun
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Sun
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Sun :) nice talking
Wol Euler: bye sun, take care
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, cute Bleu
Sunshine Zurivost: enjoy the rest of your day wave and pooof
Eliza Madrigal waves
druth Vlodovic: http://www.drunkduck.com/The_Gods_of...elaan/5106393/
Bleu Oleander: byeee
Catrinamonblue Resident: Bye Bleu
Bleu Oleander: ty Eliza :)
Zen Arado: bye Bleu
Agatha Macbeth: Take care Bleu
Bleu Oleander: ba bye

Eliza Madrigal: I think the love never really goes away, anyway, if ever there - but maybe its expression changes
Eliza Madrigal: hate is pretty passionate :)
Agatha Macbeth: Mm
druth Vlodovic: loads of attachment
Zen Arado: opposite to love is indifference, not hate
Eliza Madrigal stops herself before she uses you all to work out all her current life stories in this session :)

Zen Arado: can you have a strong indifference?
Zen Arado: I think not
Wol Euler smiles.
Eliza Madrigal: I like that question Zen
druth Vlodovic: go for it Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Zen Arado: Eliza stretches out on pab couch
druth Vlodovic: strong indifference means you do care but are trying not to
Zen Arado: we pick up pads
Wol Euler: agreed

druth Vlodovic: actualy indifference is effortless and leads to you giving people blank looks
Catrinamonblue Resident: Druth favorite look too :)
Zen Arado: it means you don't care
Eliza Madrigal nods... for me "processing" can look like (blank) indifference
Zen Arado: who cares ?
Zen Arado: I always say
Eliza Madrigal: if I can't give an answer, or can't give one that will be okay, then my processor keeps working on that and in the meantime there comes a distance between

Zen Arado: rumination
Zen Arado: is not good
Zen Arado: they say
Zon Kwan: love never dies..it just leaves us
druth Vlodovic: "Do you want a quick answer or an intelligent one?"
Wol Euler: except for bovines
Eliza Madrigal nods
Zen Arado: because you can't work emotional problems out rationally
druth Vlodovic: rumination is good
druth Vlodovic: can be
Zen Arado: about emotional problems - I don't think so
Catrinamonblue Resident: emotional problems work themselves out emotionally needs time to process
druth Vlodovic: you can't work emotional problems out emotionally either, most of the time
Zen Arado: thinking can only magnify I think
Zen Arado: just see ...they say
Eliza Madrigal: emotional problems sometimes come from not getting to the heart of something... and there are various ways to get to that, perhaps
Zon Kwan: focus on emotion..yes
Zon Kwan: watching it

Zen Arado: just sit with it
Eliza Madrigal: often I find in sitting that something comes up and sorts, then soon after comes some kind of opening
Zen Arado: might be something underlying that might also come up
Zen Arado: that thinking hides
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: but thinking and ruminating seems hard to stop I find
Eliza Madrigal: communication isn't 'reasonable' always I guess I want to say

druth Vlodovic: "brooding"is the negative one, sitting stewing in it until it flavour everything you see and think
Catrinamonblue Resident: (listening and learning)
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: yes..that's what I mean by rumination Druth
Eliza Madrigal likes stewing better than rumination or brooding
Zen Arado: or worrying?
druth Vlodovic: meditation, the way I have been doing it anyway,is a bit like ruminating but without engaging
druth Vlodovic: perhaps that is what eliza meant
Zen Arado: but we have our nature to do this or not
Eliza Madrigal: yes... ultimately it is about we with ourselves
Zen Arado: rumination suggests repetitive thoughts to me
Eliza Madrigal: then maybe clearer with others
Zen Arado: like what a cow does with grass
Catrinamonblue Resident: sorting out getting the bigger picture?

--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: I have an example but after I'll ask it not be posted... if okay
Wol Euler: fine by me, eliza
druth Vlodovic: each time a cow brings it up it is a bit easier to digest
Zen Arado: hmm yes
Catrinamonblue Resident: yes Eliza
druth Vlodovic: go ahead
Zen Arado: doesn't work that way with thoughts though I think
Zen Arado: listens
druth Vlodovic: broods
 

[Eliza shared a personal story that she preferred to leave out of the log, then stole the session from Yaku.
THANKS YA!]