2013.03.24 07:00 - speaking of art and beauty

The Guardian for this meeting was Bleu Oleander. The comments are by Bleu Oleander.

Eliza Madrigal: 's current display-name is "Eliza".
Bleu Oleander: 's current display-name is "Bleu".
Bleu Oleander: hi Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: nicely composed birthday suit ;-)
Bleu Oleander: birthday suit ... hehe
Eliza Madrigal: ^.^
Bleu Oleander: so we're approaching all the birthday events
Bleu Oleander: seemed a long way away
Bleu Oleander: now here
Eliza Madrigal: we've arrived
Eliza Madrigal: always enjoy the way that around birthday events, avatars are roaming the village more
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: enjoying your wiki 15 days too
Eliza Madrigal: in part due to treasure hunting but also art and magnetism.. one avatar around attracts more :)
Eliza Madrigal: So glad
Eliza Madrigal: Reading there is so pleasure-ful
Eliza Madrigal: which is a nice surprise
Bleu Oleander: I had never read Walden so that's been a nice surprise for me
Eliza Madrigal: what drew you this time?
--BELL--

Catrinamonblue Resident: 's current display-name is "Catrinamonblue".
Bleu Oleander: I'm not sure but was reading somewhere and it was mentioned
Bleu Oleander: hi Cat
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Cat :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: Morning :)
Bleu Oleander: another birthday suit :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: a few blocks away from where I live, there is an apartment complex named Walden... what always strikes me as "off" is that they have a nice big lake, but have surrounded it with a tall metal fence
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: a fence around a lake? wonder why
Eliza Madrigal: legalities I'm sure
Bleu Oleander: probably some lawyer
Eliza Madrigal: but hm... maybe they should change the name :)
Bleu Oleander: :)
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal is surrounded by crowned ladies in birthday suits
Bleu Oleander: lol
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that book, Walden, has inspired so many people to think about ways they might question the systems taken as given
Bleu Oleander: yes I can see why in some ways
Bleu Oleander: an expanded version of the 90 sec pause
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Eliza Madrigal: clearing of being
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: the need for vacations
Eliza Madrigal: the first time I read Thoreau, I was in a guest bath at a party and opened the medicine cabinet...
Catrinamonblue Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: there was a little card in there about every man marching to the drum beat he hears :)
Bleu Oleander: ah yes nice
Eliza Madrigal: maybe that's a little of what is meant in some teachings by "free in their own place"
Eliza Madrigal: that everything everything everything is free in its own place
Bleu Oleander: hard to know what free really means
Eliza Madrigal: (though rumor has it that Thoreau's female family members brought him food, etc :P)
Catrinamonblue Resident: gtg RL visitors :) Druth and I will be missing the guardian meeting this morning as well :)
Eliza Madrigal: Enjoy your visitors Cat :))
Bleu Oleander: take care Cat
Catrinamonblue Resident: ty :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'd like to dive into Aristotle more...
Bleu Oleander: yes he's fun
Bleu Oleander: just to think how long ago ...
Eliza Madrigal: he wrote about function
Eliza Madrigal: among so much more :))
Bleu Oleander: yes amazing reallly
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Bleu Oleander: reminds me of another book I've enjoyed reading
Bleu Oleander: Marcus Aurelius
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes
Eliza Madrigal: how connected for you?
Bleu Oleander: amazing at his reflections
Bleu Oleander: and that he kept journals
--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: realized that people have been thinking for a long time :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Bleu Oleander: trying to figure out the meaning of life
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: what defines the good life
Bleu Oleander: do you think philosophy has a role in today's world?
Eliza Madrigal: was having a talk with my kids recently... about figuring things out, and contribution... the way the system really does seem to be that one can't affect "just their own life"
Eliza Madrigal: I do
Bleu Oleander: I do too
Eliza Madrigal: I do think there is a way of philosophy at lower levels that isn't very helpful... but I understand we don't seem to have a better approach yet
Bleu Oleander: Stephen Hawking has famously declared that philosophy is dead
Eliza Madrigal: well if I was driving around in Hawking's mind I might discard it too :P
Bleu Oleander: I think there is value in seeing what others have thought over the years
Bleu Oleander: lol
Eliza Madrigal: there is.... I wonder can we drop the "arguing about it" part, though
Bleu Oleander: arguing about which part?
Eliza Madrigal: meaning, a lot of people sort of set up philosophical figures out of their own contexts and times and compete with them
Eliza Madrigal: well so n so said this... and I agree, therefore such n such was wrong
Eliza Madrigal: If one looks at a wider view, so many ideas are overturned and then revisited later... the attitude of surity may be what needs to go
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: open conversation would be a better relationship
Eliza Madrigal: agreed
Eliza Madrigal: so, new skills for a new time
Eliza Madrigal: but the material is rich
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: helpful to become aware of the vast amounts of thinking that have happened over the years
Eliza Madrigal: another way it may be antiquated is the approach of trying to memorize everything... familiarity as you describe may mean something else...
Eliza Madrigal: like knowing the textures well enough to work with them
Eliza Madrigal: if I know a philosopher as a friend, then I may develop intuition about how they might view something
Eliza Madrigal: but leave room for surprise :)
Bleu Oleander: I see what you're saying
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: similar to an artist knowing how to use brushes and paint in a way that allows freedom of creativity
Eliza Madrigal: good example.... also coming back to function
Eliza Madrigal: the meaning of the thing being in the thing
Eliza Madrigal: something like that :P
Zen Arado: 's current display-name is "Zen".
Bleu Oleander: say more?
Bleu Oleander: hi Zen
Eliza Madrigal: well... a paintbrush brushes paint
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Zen Arado: Hi Bleu, Eliza :)
Bleu Oleander: I brush paint using a paintbrush?
Eliza Madrigal: it asks to hold paint and be handled, in a way
Bleu Oleander: I think that's a function I give it
Eliza Madrigal: a relationship
Bleu Oleander thinks about all the ways I've used a paintbrush besides painting lol
Eliza Madrigal: but this is a little what Aristotle felt... the hesitation I guess in our time is that people use the same arguments for creationism
Eliza Madrigal: Zen we're talking philosophy - you're just in time :))
Bleu Oleander: hehe
Zen Arado: thought it was painting
--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: philosophy of painting lol
Eliza Madrigal: Aristotle and Aurelius painting
Bleu Oleander: would definitely collect their paintings hehe
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Zen Arado: Aesthetics is a whole branch of philosophy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aesthetics
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: "what is art?"
Eliza Madrigal: mhm :) do we seem to be aesthetic creatures?
Bleu Oleander: definitely respond to beauty
Bleu Oleander: whatever that means to each of us
Eliza Madrigal: through times it has changed often... what of a time that includes all those times in their own place?
Eliza Madrigal: that's what we seem to be in now
Zen Arado: cultural
Zen Arado: some of it innate though guess
Zen Arado: I
szavanna Resident: 's current display-name is "Sunshine".
Eliza Madrigal: we have so much access... so much exposure
Bleu Oleander: I think each culture tweeks their own sense of what is art and beauty
szavanna Resident: hi Jis °͜°
Bleu Oleander: hi Sunji ... speaking of art and beauty :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sun :))
Zen Arado: 'Evolutionary aesthetics refers to evolutionary psychology theories in which the basic aesthetic preferences of Homo sapiens are argued to have evolved in order to enhance survival and reproductive success. One example being that humans are argued to find beautiful and prefer landscapes which were good habitats in the ancestral environment. '
Zen Arado: Hi Sunji :)
szavanna Resident: ❤
Bleu Oleander: yes I think our values have evolved along with our evolution as humans
Zen Arado: we like paintings of lakes
szavanna Resident: ( I was at your gallery Zenji °͜°
Bleu Oleander: I think on some level yes
Eliza Madrigal: with or without fences
Bleu Oleander: but I don't especially
Zen Arado: just a general thing
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: but so many things we seemingly evolve beyond, like tribal intelligence, we often go back and revisit and smack our heads like "whoa we almost wiped that out!"
Zen Arado: you have evolved beyond that Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: hard to move past some things
szavanna Resident: I am planning to watch this film called "what about me"
szavanna Resident: 2 guys travelling from continent to continent
Bleu Oleander: did you happen to take any of the online bias tests I posted recently?
szavanna Resident: to jam with local musicians
Bleu Oleander: oh nice Sunji
Zen Arado: no Bleu?
szavanna Resident: and there are lots other people in the film too
szavanna Resident: liek Eckhart Tolle
Zen Arado: didn't see that
Eliza Madrigal: I did Bleu! quite surprising... the gender one (also hard to keep track of)
Bleu Oleander: https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/demo/
Eliza Madrigal: I'm planning to see the film too
Bleu Oleander: is the film on line?
szavanna Resident: I love to see how art changes from country to country
Zen Arado: Hi Aga
Agatha Macbeth: Good day PaBlings :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Aggers ... looking like a princess
szavanna Resident: mornin your Majesty ;o)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Aggers :)
Agatha Macbeth: Hey, if the tiara fits....:p
Zen Arado: lots of queens around here
Bleu Oleander: :P
Eliza Madrigal: what happens in a society where there is more royalty than subjects? lol
Agatha Macbeth coughs
Zen Arado: we revolt
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Bleu Oleander: no one to mow the lawn
szavanna Resident: hmm that can be problematic
Bleu Oleander: haha
szavanna Resident: everything will be a mess
szavanna Resident: ;p
Agatha Macbeth: Everything's a mess anyway!
szavanna Resident: hehe so then its ok
Bleu Oleander: life's messy
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Agatha Macbeth waves to Liz
Eliza Madrigal: full of material
Eliza Madrigal: ;-)
Bleu Oleander: and beauty
Bleu Oleander: and meaning
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Agatha Macbeth: Material otr junk :p
Bleu Oleander: and philosophy
Bleu Oleander: lol
Agatha Macbeth: We are revolting
Bleu Oleander: speak for yourself
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Bleu Oleander: haha
Zen Arado: funny how strong those assumptions of beauty are
Agatha Macbeth grins
Eliza Madrigal: humor pops out
Agatha Macbeth: 'When you assume you make an ass out of u and me'
Zen Arado: I know artists who paint coastal scenes and landscapes over and over again and have no answer if I ask them why?
Bleu Oleander: lol Aggers
Eliza Madrigal: maybe just the process, Zen?
Agatha Macbeth: That's artists for you eh :p
szavanna Resident: artists are mysterious
Bleu Oleander: at least we like to think so
Eliza Madrigal: think about the artists who moved to places to paint the same scene over and over again in diff seasons....
szavanna Resident: ;o)
Agatha Macbeth: Art needs no reason...
Zen Arado: and if I paint an abstract they scratch their head and ask what it is supposed to be
Agatha Macbeth: It just is
Zen Arado: art MUST represent something to them
Agatha Macbeth: Like Being maybe? ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: my son gets genuinely angry about art that seems blank to him, or easy
Bleu Oleander: small way to look at art
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: we had a long talk one day about how an artist who made the dot on the wall may be able to paint landscapes
Zen Arado: well most people I meet are like that
Zen Arado: amazing how much they share the assumption
Zen Arado: art must be representational
Bleu Oleander: it's not necessary to paint landscapes realistically ... only one of many ways to represent what's in your mind's eye
Eliza Madrigal: well he is someone capable of obsessing over small details... so he needed to see the choice being made...
Eliza Madrigal: and the history behind the work, the context of the artist
Agatha Macbeth: It's like Picasso's gernica comes from a feeling rather than a concete object
Bleu Oleander: context is very important
Zen Arado: but they just dismiss modern art without wanting to know anything about it
Eliza Madrigal: yes... once he saw that it was different... schooling does something weird to people... that one thinks "they get credit for THAT?"
Agatha Macbeth: I think people only see what they wish to see
Bleu Oleander: or can see
Agatha Macbeth: Yeh
Eliza Madrigal nods
Agatha Macbeth: Bit like a treasure hunt :p
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: content to go out and take photos then copy them as a painting
Bleu Oleander: right before your eyes
Agatha Macbeth: Mmm
Eliza Madrigal: am amazed though, at a painting I think is a photo at first
Zen Arado: closer to the photo the better
Eliza Madrigal: trick of the eye :)
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: that's waht sells best too
Bleu Oleander: is a skill to be able to do that
Bleu Oleander: in some markets
Zen Arado: technical skill admired more than creativity
Bleu Oleander: art for market ... another topic
Zen Arado: stops ranting
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Aww
Bleu Oleander: interesting discussion though
Eliza Madrigal nods
Eliza Madrigal: Rorschach tests within Rorschach tests
Bleu Oleander: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Reminds me of when Wol says 'I need to shut up' and I ask 'why?'
Zen Arado: glad I got that off my chest
Zen Arado: :)
Eliza Madrigal: lol
Bleu Oleander: :)
Zen Arado: people had little art education years ago
Eliza Madrigal: the main thing I suppose is that, walking through a museum or life one is able to enjoy everything for what it is where it is coming from
Zen Arado: it is still considered unimportant
Agatha Macbeth: Mm, yes
Eliza Madrigal: surely a more pleasant way to spend the day... especially if with someone else who sees differently
Bleu Oleander: I think it's more about where 'you" are coming from as you walk through life or a museum lol
Zen Arado: yes
Eliza Madrigal: :)
szavanna Resident: °͜°
Zen Arado: I got to see London galleries in 2009
Zen Arado: so glad I did
szavanna Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal: went to see Leonard Cohen.... it was a wonderful show... a couple in front of me was obviously arguing... missed the whole thing though right there
Zen Arado: not much in Belfast
Agatha Macbeth: Wow Liz
Bleu Oleander: amazing
Zen Arado: oh bad luck Liz
Eliza Madrigal: oh, nice Zen
Zen Arado: a former pab guardian and I strolled through a Picasso exhibition
Bleu Oleander: i've noticed that many buy tickets to events, are there physically, but not present in some ways
Zen Arado: they are spoiled
Bleu Oleander: annoying when they're sitting behind you lol
Eliza Madrigal: not so hard to do.... have had many experiences like that myself
Bleu Oleander: yes
Zen Arado: so great when you can go where you like
szavanna Resident: hmm yes
Eliza Madrigal: as a mom, taking pictures of shows... seeing the shows through camera lenses...
Bleu Oleander: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: to capture for some future time
Bleu Oleander: some live via FB
Zen Arado: you're allowed to take photos?
Bleu Oleander: no flashes
Zen Arado: not in London galleries
Eliza Madrigal: of kids' shows, yes :) ... in a regular show yes lots of people were ... not in most special exhibits I think...
szavanna Resident: hmm things are so controlled in the west
Zen Arado: so many camming movies nowadays
Eliza Madrigal: the iphones and galaxies are huge.... really disruptive in theaters
Bleu Oleander: i've taken zillions of photos in museums
Zen Arado: so I can watch them
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zen Arado: :)
szavanna Resident: why is it a problem to take pictures in museums?
Bleu Oleander: I don't think it is nowadays
Eliza Madrigal: me too Bleu... but not for exhibits... like the Warhol one or matisse, at moma
Agatha Macbeth: Copywright thing maybe?
Zen Arado: the bright flash has an adverse on paintings they say
szavanna Resident: yes of course
Zen Arado: effect
Eliza Madrigal: exhibits are handled like films
Bleu Oleander: not with flash though
szavanna Resident: ah thats different
Zen Arado: but people make mistakes with flash
Zen Arado: so they ban entirely
Eliza Madrigal: there are works that are not really translatable in photo, yet everything (including me) thinks they've seen
szavanna Resident: kk
Eliza Madrigal: but would be a shame never to have access also....
Eliza Madrigal: funny lines :)
Eliza Madrigal: everyone* = everything
Zen Arado: watercolours are particularly susceptible
Zen Arado: such a thin layer of paint
--BELL--

Zen Arado: some places they keep them in drawers
Eliza Madrigal: guardians session!
Bleu Oleander: ah yes
Bleu Oleander: thank you all!
Bleu Oleander: fun conversation
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu!
Agatha Macbeth: Wouldn't want to keep a painting in my drawers :p
szavanna Resident: °͜° see you there tyty
Agatha Macbeth: Ah, GM now?
Zen Arado: :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe Aggers
Bleu Oleander: c u at the mtg