2009.04.10 01:00 - The vase

Wol Euler was guardian and commenter for this session.

I was joined by an infrequent passerby, who has stopped briefly several times on these Friday mornings.

Wol Euler: hello drakkle
Drakkletannon Amiot: Good morning.
Wol Euler: youve been here before, haven't you? I remember your av.
Drakkletannon Amiot: Perhaps.
Wol Euler smiles
Drakkletannon Amiot: I definitely know your profile.
Wol Euler chuckles
Wol Euler: have a seat, join us
Drakkletannon Amiot: Us?
Wol Euler: (for certain values of "us")
Wol Euler: in theory this is the 1am meeting of a meditation group called Play as Being
Drakkletannon Amiot: Hmm.
Drakkletannon Amiot: Which is?
Wol Euler: a theory about how to achieve the ends of meditation with simple means,
Wol Euler: not needing to abandon your job and family to move to a cloister, for example
Wol Euler: the core practice is a 1% time tax.
Wol Euler: Every fifteen minutes, take 9 seconds to stop. Simply stop.
Wol Euler: and try to see what is really present, not what you think about it
Drakkletannon Amiot: I try to do that all the time.
Wol Euler: good!
Wol Euler: I can give you a notecard about the group, if you woiud be interestd - and if I haven't previously done so
Drakkletannon Amiot: I'm alright.
Wol Euler: one important thing, though. We record these sessions and publish them on our website, http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Wol Euler: may we have your permission to include your name and comments in the log?
Drakkletannon Amiot: Yes.
Wol Euler: ty :)
Wol Euler: do you meditate,or have another practice?
Drakkletannon Amiot: Not really.
Drakkletannon Amiot: I have a sort of training that helps me focus. owo;
Wol Euler: tell me more?
Wol Euler: (please)
Drakkletannon Amiot: Mostly I train with a practice sword out in the yard.

We were joined by Drakkle's friend and fellow-in-arms, Samantha. Some private conversation was filtered out.

Drakkletannon Amiot: Hey Sam. owo;
Wol Euler: hello samantha
Wol Euler: Drakkle had started to tell me about his .. concentration practice?
Samantha Ikura: SO do we sit here and type out mind boggling stuff and think about things?
Wol Euler: basically, yes :)
Samantha Ikura: Oooh, I like this already <3
Wol Euler: in a minute the bell will ring, we sit and meditate in silence for 90 seconds
Drakkletannon Amiot: Well, usually I concentrate on things while I train with my practice sword our in the back field. o.o;
Wol Euler: being in the moment, then ...
Trevor Berensohn: Cool
Wol Euler: oh, hello trevor, didn't see you arrive
Trevor Berensohn: Good morning =)
Wol Euler: a bit of background: the basic practice of the group that meets here, is a nine-second meditation every 15 minutes, kind of a 1% time tax
Wol Euler: the bell was to remind us to take that time
Drakkletannon Amiot: Ah.
Wol Euler: since then it'S been expanded to this 90 second turbo version :)
Drakkletannon Amiot: x3
Drakkletannon Amiot: I g2g
Drakkletannon Amiot: Friend needs comforting. @_@
Wol Euler nods.
Drakkletannon Amiot: I may return at this time again/ :3
Wol Euler: bye drakkle, nic to see you again. Come by any time. I do the Firday 1am's
Drakkletannon Amiot: Okay. ^^
Wol Euler: samantha, I can give you a notecard taht tells something about the group, just a mo

We discuss the new 90-second meditation practice.

Trevor Berensohn: Has the 90 sec been expanded all the time, or just while here?
Wol Euler: just during these meetings
Trevor Berensohn: Ah ok wasn't sure if I'd missed a new development
Wol Euler: it has several good effects, not just the extra meditation time. It als slows down the discussion, gives time to think and for tempers to cool ... :)
Trevor Berensohn: Oh that's very good
Wol Euler: oh yes, I wish we'd had that in force when we were having that long series of arguments with Absent a month ago.
Wol Euler: that might have worked out differently if we'd had these forced pauses
Trevor Berensohn: Oh? I wasn't around much then.. prehaps I missed that
Wol Euler: beause we were often arguing about words, not about principles
Trevor Berensohn: Oh, yes, the pause wouldn't have hurt any in that case
Trevor Berensohn: =)
Wol Euler: he came from a strongly-felt Christian background, quite ... determined, shall we say
Trevor Berensohn: I like that.. perhaps I'll ask for that when I'm learning debate
Wol Euler: knew that there were things that were absolutely right, always, for everyone, everywhere
Wol Euler: and other things that were absolutely wrong ...
Trevor Berensohn: Wow
Trevor Berensohn: Sounds like a stressful way to think of things
Wol Euler: we rubbed each other the wrong way, tempers rose ...
Wol Euler: my suspicion is that he wa actually conducting this argument inside and with himself
Wol Euler: and putting it out here on us as a way of dealing with the conflict
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm what was the outcome?
Wol Euler: well, he left.
Wol Euler: he frequently considered himself to have been mortally insulted (e.g. by people asking for clarification of his ideas and not being content to be given an URL to the wikipedia)
Trevor Berensohn: Any new insights from the exchange?
Samantha Ikura: hmmm...
Wol Euler: well, quite a bit learned about temper and the difficulty of communicating!
Trevor Berensohn: Haha oh no, ppl asked him what HE meant? How rude!
Wol Euler: well, yes.
Wol Euler: this is why I think that his argument was really against himself, against his belief
Trevor Berensohn: Well I hope he finds come clarity and peace
Wol Euler: because _he_ would never state them in his own words, he always just quoted external authorities
Wol Euler: yes, trevor, agreed.
Trevor Berensohn: Hmm yes, I've found that if I become disturbed around someone like that, there is something within myself that is coming to light as well.. how useful

An interesting point, which we didn't follow up (yet). Samantha tells us a story about appreciating the appearance of difficulty in our lives.

Samantha Ikura: A young Lakota asked his grandfather why life had to be so difficult sometimes...
Wol Euler listens
Trevor Berensohn: Yes?
Samantha Ikura: "In life there is, sadness as well as joy, losing as well as winning, falling as well as standing, hunger as well as plenty, bad as well as good. I do not say this to make you despair, but to teach you reality. To teach you that life is a journey, sometimes walked in light, sometimes in shadow.
Wol Euler nods
Samantha Ikura: You did not ask nto be born, but you are here. You have weakness as well as strengths.
Samantha Ikura: You have both because in life there is who of everything. Within you is the will to win as well as the willingness to lose.
Samantha Ikura: The heart ot feel compassion, as well as the smallness to be arrogant. Within you is the way to face life, as well as the fear to turn away from it.
Samantha Ikura: Life can give you strength
Trevor Berensohn: Ah a very balanced view, Samantha
Trevor Berensohn is reminded of Khalil Gibran
Samantha Ikura: It can come from the facing the storms of life, from knowing loss, Feeling sadness and heartache, from faling into depths of greif. You must stand up in the storm. You must face the wind, the cold and the darkness. When the storm blows hard you must stand firmly. For it is not trying to knock you down, it is really trying to teach you how to be strong.
Wol Euler nods
Samantha Ikura: Being strong means taking one more step toward the top of the hill, no matter how weary you may be. It means letting the tears flow through grief.It means to keep looking for the answer, while the darkness of despair is all around you. It means to cling to hope, for one more heart beat, for one more sunrise. Each step no matter how difficult, is one more step closer, to the top of the hill......
Samantha Ikura: To keep hope alive one more heart beat at a time leads to the light of the next sunrise and the promise of a new day. The weakest step, towards the top of the hill towards the sunrise, towards hope, is stronger than the fiercest storm. Grandfather says this; KEEP GOING!
Trevor Berensohn: Can I ask, is this your first time here, Samantha?
Samantha Ikura: That was coined by Joseph Firecrow.
Samantha Ikura: Yes :)
Wol Euler: thank you Sam; and I've given her the intro and notecard :)
Trevor Berensohn: Mmmm I like that Sam
Samantha Ikura: :D
Samantha Ikura: Thank you.

Trevor brings the Nines back into play (or Being).

Trevor Berensohn: Oh good. Have you had a chance to check out our practice?
Wol Euler: (the nine seconds)
Trevor Berensohn: the nine second one? I've found that I'm much more aware of different ways of seeing things as a result of it
Wol Euler nods
Wol Euler: one thing that we suggest is to keep notes about hwat happens during the meditation
Samantha Ikura: Want something unforgivably deep?
Wol Euler: what you see or feel, the images and associations that might arise
Trevor Berensohn: Haha I thought you didn't want to be recorded? Now we'll miss all these gems in the logs
Wol Euler chuckles.
Wol Euler: oh no, Sam agreed. we just restarted the log at a later point :)
Trevor Berensohn: Oh! Ok I misunderstood.. was arriving then.. my bad
Wol Euler: np
Wol Euler: fire away, sam
Samantha Ikura: Those that matter don't mind, and those that do mind don't matter.
Wol Euler nods
Trevor Berensohn: heh
Wol Euler: I find hte nine seconds a useful tool exactly when I am stuck in a situatio with people who do mind, Sam :)
Wol Euler: I use the time to pull back a little and breathe deeply once or twice, then examine what is going on
Wol Euler: who is angry? why? at what or whom?
Wol Euler: and: does this have anything to do with me?
Wol Euler: That kind of grounding, centering, is very useful in dealing with people-stress
Samantha Ikura: I used to be a buddhist, so I learn to look at everything as impermanant
Wol Euler: aaaaah
Trevor Berensohn: Oh that's helpful. I used a very similar approach to help a stuttering prablem I had 
Wol Euler: and now?

Buddhism, Nihilism and Marilyn Manson.

Trevor Berensohn: What is your practice now?
Samantha Ikura: Now I am a Nihilist. :) I just accept the world as it is, I dont need proof or anything to show me the right patch, I make my own path if I need one.
Wol Euler smiles. There might be many names for that practice, Sam -- including "buddhism"
Trevor Berensohn: Or dzogchen
Trevor Berensohn: =P
Wol Euler: though buddhism would probably want a rider clause that you try not to make your path through somebody else's herb garden
Wol Euler: because that creates suffering for them
Samantha Ikura: Buddhism was more of finding the middle patch, I think if one must find a middle path, they might want to venture off the trail.
Samantha Ikura: Buddishm and Marilyn Manson CD's mix very well...
Wol Euler laughs
Trevor Berensohn: Hmm what form of Buddhism did you practice?
Trevor Berensohn: Indeed =)
Samantha Ikura: the kind that involves me reading lots of parables and seeking to accept the universe as it is, Still trying to get the whole "Om" thing down though
Wol Euler: ah, well :)
Trevor Berensohn: Did anyone ever teach you how to meditate? That was a big part of the Buddha's eightfuld path
Samantha Ikura: I think its interesting to focus on the sound that all the world and universe makes at once, why not complete silence? complete silence is maddening as well as in its own way, cacophonous.
Trevor Berensohn: Not easily learned in books
Samantha Ikura: Yes, I still meditate every day.
Wol Euler smiles and nods
Trevor Berensohn: cool
Wol Euler: you might be interested to follow our discussions, Sam. We meet here four times a day, 1 7 1 7 in SL time (not the same poeple, obviously)
Wol Euler: Drakkle has been here a few times, he seems curious but uneasy about it :)
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm I took some time to examine this as well
Wol Euler smiles. That wasn't meant as a criticism or a dig at him
Trevor Berensohn: Also had another practice I was just learning when I happened up PaB, so I stayed focused on that for awhile

Schroedinger and the Oracle.

Samantha Ikura: Drak, Curiosity is life. It helps you learn from the world in something that interested you in that moment in time. But also remeber, next to that bastard schrodinger. Curiosity killed the cat.
Wol Euler: heh
Trevor Berensohn: Oh dear
Trevor Berensohn: lol
Wol Euler: and actually he only 50% killed it ...
Samantha Ikura: Or did he?
Wol Euler: we'll never know ...
Samantha Ikura: Who cares :P
Samantha Ikura: I'm certain we are all familier with the idea of schrodingers cat, yes?
Trevor Berensohn: Vaguely yes
Wol Euler: oh yes :)
Samantha Ikura: Google it. dont read the cliff notes, just google Schrodingers cat. let your mind cook on that one a few days. Its the same logic as in the movie the matrix where the oracle informs Neo of the Vase.
Wol Euler: mm, don't remember that.
Trevor Berensohn: I keep thnking that it can't be easy to type in those gautlets, Sam lol
Samantha Ikura: if none of us saw the third movie, that would have been a better head trip..
Samantha Ikura: I'm sure youtube has a link, I'll fish it up
Trevor Berensohn: Well kids, it's been fun, but I gotta go
Samantha Ikura: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqFPDrDWAHs
Wol Euler: ty, sam
Trevor Berensohn: Good to meet with you guys.. soo you soon =)
Wol Euler: bye trevor, it was nice to see you again
Wol Euler: happy easter/passover/spring
Trevor Berensohn: Indeed, Wol
Samantha Ikura: :D
Samantha Ikura: Bye
Trevor Berensohn: Oh thank you. You too!
Wol Euler laughs. That was good! (oracle)
Wol Euler: we talk a lot here about free will ...
Wol Euler: if time and change are fictions to explain our perceptions, then there is no _real_ time or change - so where is free will?
Wol Euler: but I too must go, appointmnts in RL to attend to.
Samantha Ikura: :D
Samantha Ikura: Later
Wol Euler: It was nice meeting you, Sam, take care. Enjoy the holiday