The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden.

I deleted the 'hi's to go toward the discussion which picked up on the theme of Time and Dreams and Reality.  Riddle mentions something he was thinking about during last Sunday's session before he got bumped from the session due to tech problems.  The discussion continues with more strands and topics triggered by previous comments.  I offer a few things about my understanding of dreaming, but mostly this discussion evolves and billows on its own.  So interesting to see how much interest dreams and the dreaming experience seem to trigger, perhaps as it lilts on the edge of various realities that we inhabit.

Riddle Sideways: I was dreaming about whether I haad time in the same measure in my daydreams and was bumped
Maxine Walden: ah...yes
Maxine Walden: we had thought of continuing the theme of dreams, time, reality -- the topics of last time, would you like to continue with your thought from last time, Riddle, when you were bumped?
Riddle Sideways: well, everything that was being said seemed that remembered time spans whether awake, dream, Rl, SL were sort of all the same
Riddle Sideways: but nobody really said that out loud
Riddle Sideways: [or typed it]
Maxine Walden: Wol, we are reviewing some of what we spoke about last Sunday 1pm, re dreams, time, reality, daydreams...and Riddle was just recalling some things before he was bumped from the session
gina Broono: may I say something here
Wol Euler nods
gina Broono: please?
Riddle Sideways: yes do
Maxine Walden: of course
gina Broono: I used to dream very vivid dreams, ever since in SL, say 3 weeks, my dreams have vanished and are replaced by Sl events
gina Broono: I find this amazing
Wol Euler: you dream about being in SL?
stevenaia Michinaga: Aren't there some cultures who view dreams differently , such as the aboriginese in Australia?
gina Broono: maybe because I sleep a let less and therefore, the REM sleep is shortened
stevenaia Michinaga: don;t know much about it
gina Broono: Wol, yes
gina Broono: the lines get blurred
Wol Euler smiles. It is far more common than you think!
gina Broono: SL is like a dream often
Riddle Sideways: I remember somebody else asking/saying that they dream SL
Maxine Walden: a few people last time mentioned that as I recall, riddle, dream SL or dream about SL
Wol Euler smiles and raises her hand. That would have been me. I dream in SL, or of Wol-in-this-body in my RL, every other night now
Scathach Rhiadra: our experience of SL is part of our lives, so why would we not dream of it?
gina Broono: great
gina Broono: I dream of teh landscapes
gina Broono: from SL
Maxine Walden: Steve, also hear your strand or question...maybe we can come back to that
gina Broono: quite an effect on my RL
gina Broono: I believe for the better
stevenaia Michinaga: understand
Wol Euler nods and smiles
Riddle Sideways: there are some youTube vids of RL people walking around with an arm out inspecting objects (very funny)
gina Broono: dreams are so fascinating
Pila Mulligan: hi Adams
gina Broono: I have a book that I refer to to analyze them regularly
Maxine Walden: hi, adams
Wol Euler: hello adams, and wb steve
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello adams
gina Broono: it goes into symbolism, numerolog, colors
Adams Rubble: Hello everyone :)
Riddle Sideways: hi adams
gina Broono: Hi Admas
Pila Mulligan: welcome back Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: change to wireless
Maxine Walden: many ways to think about and understand dreams...
Maxine Walden: Steve, you had a question about other cultures' views of dreams...care to repeat your thought?
stevenaia Michinaga: just the differing perceptions of what dreams are, and the native Australian s come ti mind but I do not remember what the references was in their culture
stevenaia Michinaga: was hoping someone else was familiar with it
Wol Euler: where's tarmel when you need her?
Scathach Rhiadra: the Dreamtime?
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime --
Wol Euler: I believe that they believe that the Elders created the world by lucid dreaming
Wol Euler: by singing songs of creation in their dreams, and the world came into being as they sang it
Pila Mulligan: hi Eliza
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila, Scath, everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, thank you Pila, interesting reference, Dreamtime
Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
gina Broono: Hi Eliza
gina Broono: u r very very pretty
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Gina...Eliza is great with the grooming. Hahha
Maxine Walden: hi, eliza, we are reviewing thoughts, questions, re dreams, dreaming...
Pila Mulligan: hi Mick
Maxine Walden: oh, hi, Mick
Wol Euler: hello mick
Adams Rubble: Hello Mick :)
Eliza Madrigal: So many thoughts...such an interesting topic
Riddle Sideways: hi Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Mick
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Mick
gina Broono: hello Mick
Mickorod Renard: Hiya everyone
Riddle Sideways: since last week I have tried to watch how time happens (or not) in my dreams
Riddle Sideways: to no answer
Riddle Sideways: a big "can't tell ya"
Maxine Walden: hi, Ara
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arabella
Pila Mulligan: hi arabella
Mickorod Renard: Hiya Ara
Wol Euler: hello ara
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ara
Riddle Sideways: hi arabel
Adams Rubble: Hello Aarabella :)
Maxine Walden: thanks, Riddle, for the attempted research
arabella Ella: Hiya all
Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm, if atree falls in somebodies dream and they don't remember ... :)
Maxine Walden: haha...did it ever happen...?
Riddle Sideways: anybody?
Maxine Walden: not quite sure what you are asking, Riddle...
gina Broono: but what about the clairvoyant dreams that predict an upcoming real event
Maxine Walden: Can you just say it again?
gina Broono: I love and hate those
Maxine Walden: love and hate them, gina?
arabella Ella: yes could you ask ur question again pls Riddle?
gina Broono: if they are of a disaster, like an earthquake and they are a reflection of an actual event it is te4rrifying
gina Broono: if it reflects a happy event , I love them
Riddle Sideways: oh it was just a small joke/play that turned toward a question
Eliza Madrigal: Gina, yes, those dreams cause us to ask ourselves so many questions about 'why' would I see that and what does it mean to the wider world if anything. 'Why' be given a window into something one can't seemingly affect?
Pila Mulligan wonders about two seemingly connected ideas: (1) factors that stimulate dreaming, and (2) how dream experiences relate to daily (waking) life
Mickorod Renard: are you sayin that all dreams of the future are unlikely to be somethinfg uyiou cant do anything about?
Maxine Walden: Pila, you likely have given those two ideas some thought...care to share your considerations?
Maxine Walden: Aware we have at least two strands going on in our discussion...unless it is too confusing we can try to proceed with them both...
Pila Mulligan: well, at one extreme, there is the nursey song, '... merrrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream' :)
Pila Mulligan: at another extreme, some people say they do not have any dreams (maybe menaing they do not remember dreaming)
Pila Mulligan: what accounts for these extremes?
Pila Mulligan: and what do dreams mean when we have them
Pila Mulligan: and can we get a grant to study all this?
Wol Euler: wb gina
Eliza Madrigal: WB Gina :)
Wol Euler: and lol @ pila
Pila Mulligan: welcome back gina
gina Broono: ty, bad crash
Riddle Sideways: and at Pila's side a day full of mental exercise on one particular subject often puts it right into my dreams
Mickorod Renard: I sometimes ahave dreams that clearly relate to what i am doing in life,,and others so bizare I wonder why my mind has conjured them up
Mickorod Renard: almost alien thoughts
Eliza Madrigal: Hi SophiaSharon :)
Pila Mulligan: most people deem to have dreams that are stimulated by daily activity, to some degree
Mickorod Renard: Hi Sophie
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi :)
Pila Mulligan: hi SophiaSharon
Riddle Sideways: allthe way to Eliza's side where out of th eblue of randomness I dream of a tree falling on my grandmother
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia
Pila Mulligan: seem*
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
Maxine Walden: could it be that dream thoughts, (what appears in our dreams) may have several sources, some daily experience or things we still need to think about...
Pila Mulligan: yes, Maxine -- and then the realtionship to daily (waking) life depends on the stimulus
Maxine Walden: and some which may be dealing with deep, unconscious issues which may seem bizarre because we are not aware of them?
arabella Ella: i dont think one can generalise about all dreams ... agree with Maxine about different sources
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
arabella Ella: some are residue, others deeply held ideas, beliefs, fears, feelings etc
arabella Ella: often unconscious
Eliza Madrigal: Most of my dreams are blended...what I'm thinkig about with flashes of insight or something like it
Mickorod Renard: yes,,but i could make more sense of it if the bizare ones are still set in a familiar surrounding
Riddle Sideways: so you do not think they are random
arabella Ella: dreams are never random IMHO
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes making a context for larger ideas.
Wol Euler: hello sophia
Eliza Madrigal: Sophia P, Hi :)
sophia Placebo: hi wol all
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello sophia
gina Broono: Hi Sophia
Mickorod Renard: hi Sophie
Eliza Madrigal: The 'why' dreams I mostly was referring to those who have future telling dreams. I've not had too many of those. :)
arabella Ella: aren't the future oriented dreams part of the mystery of time?
Maxine Walden: some have thought that one of the function of dreams is to allow the dreamer to continue to sleep; I have on occasion wondered whether an 'unfamiliar' setting may be the dream's attmept to not waken the dreamer with a familiar setting...
Eliza Madrigal: seems so ara :)
gina Broono: I used to dream of building collapses 6 months before 911
Mickorod Renard: I think its not always obvious that you have a future telling one or not,,and of course remembering dreams also eliminates many
gina Broono: true Mick
Wol Euler: I have had dreams that incorporated noises from RL in such a way that I didn't have to wake up and deal with them
Pila Mulligan: there seems to be a variety of different factors that stimulate different types of dreams (daily mental focus, environmental things, unconscious sources, future events, etc.)
Mickorod Renard: or rather not remembering many
gina Broono: I try not to open my eyes upon awakening to anchor the dream
Maxine Walden: yes, wol, clever dreams to so incorporate sounds...
arabella Ella: what i find weird is our memory or otherwise of dreams ... why should we remember some and forget others so easily?
Maxine Walden: yes, trying to recall the dream, so as not to have them fall over the horizon of forgetting...often a challenge
gina Broono: and ....maybe they are 2 parallel worlds we oscillate between really
Eliza Madrigal: I think we cultivate remembering
arabella Ella: is it possible to cultivate remembering dreams and if so how?
Mickorod Renard: thats spooky gina,,but i have wondered along similar lines before
Wol Euler: hello moyra, nice to see you again
Riddle Sideways: only 2 gna?
gina Broono: ty, Mick
Moyra Ares: hello
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Moyra
gina Broono: 2 I can recall
Adams Rubble: Hello Moyra
Mickorod Renard: hi moyra
gina Broono: coming out of dreamland is like coming out of anasthesia
Moyra Ares: thanks for teleporting
gina Broono: mmmm, a lovely sensation
arabella Ella: but when under anasthesia we dont dream do we?
Maxine Walden: hello Moyra, are you familiar with these sessions? That we post the chatlog?
Eliza Madrigal: With some dreams Gina, or with all for you?
sophia Placebo: dont think so arabella
gina Broono: I think there is a lot of mental activity, that's why many claim to have experienced death
Wol Euler: she was with us this morning, Maxine :)
Mickorod Renard: regularity of remembering dreams is a nice, sometimes tiring situation,,and i miss it
gina Broono: the white light syndrome then
Eliza Madrigal: I think so. When we write them down or pay attention to them in some way, we seem to remember more. That's a type of cultivation.
Maxine Walden: thanks, Wol
Pila Mulligan: we seem to think it is helpful to try to mentally integrate or interpret remembered dream expereince with waking expereince
Mickorod Renard: yes,,i must cultivate more
Maxine Walden: as if we intuitively sense that the dream has something to convey to us, if we can connect with it, Pila?
arabella Ella: i feel so sad when i know i have just had a significant dream and it is forgotten ... the memory of the dream ... so easily
Maxine Walden: as if you are missing something, Ara?
arabella Ella: yes missing something very significant ... a message
sophia Placebo: recently i became resistant to remmbebring my dreams but i read something today that bring a recent dream to surface , if i hadnt read it today i might forget that dream
Eliza Madrigal: I wonder if it affects our daytime processing whether we remember or not
Pila Mulligan: yes, Maxine
Mickorod Renard: I feel that when i had lots of dreams i became obsesive about them
gina Broono: dreams Do affectour daily lives
arabella Ella: are dreams linked to imagination too i wonder?
gina Broono: something to learn from , be guided by, warned
Mickorod Renard: I cannot imagine rthat dreams do not have a positive purpose
Maxine Walden: my own current thought is that we 'think' on many levels, and the 'thought' that occurs in dreams, which are remembered, and those which are not remembered may differ in terms of depth, and perhaps our readiness to know what the dream was about
Wol Euler nods
Riddle Sideways: nods too
arabella Ella: do you mean Maxine that our conscious ego may block out dreams deliberately but subconsciously?
Mickorod Renard: maybe
Eliza Madrigal: Makes sense to me Maxine, especially the way you phrase it using levels or layers
Maxine Walden: so that as we become ready to think about the message of the dream it is more likely we may remember them
sophia Placebo: if a dream repeat many times it makes you remmeber it and worry about it
Maxine Walden: I think there are censors Ara, in various aspects of the mind...yes
arabella Ella: depends sophia whether the dream is pleasant or not
Riddle Sideways: then there are the awake times of deja vu when you know you dreamedwalking up these stairs
Wol Euler: or maybe just a stack of things needing atttention, and some ideas/events only get taken off the stack at nicht when the main processing stops?
Eliza Madrigal nods
Maxine Walden: that too, wol
Mickorod Renard: but some are just bizzare
Riddle Sideways: yes
Maxine Walden: yes, Mick
Wol Euler: I thik sometims that intuition sneaks under our guard in dreams, to tell us things that the conscious mind isn't ready to hear
Eliza Madrigal nods
arabella Ella nods
Maxine Walden: agree, Wol
Mickorod Renard: I agree there Wol
sophia Placebo: well , both arabella, dreaming of army of ants attacking your home and of a fantasy trip overseas in summer vaccation
Wol Euler: I discovered that a friend was unreliable, lying to me and others, through a dream.After dreaming it, I was able to see her behaviour clearly
arabella Ella nods
Eliza Madrigal: Something you knew under the surface, as it were
Moyra Ares: was she cheating?
gina Broono: that is powerful,
Moyra Ares: or he?
Maxine Walden: interesting, Wol, your intuition/dreaming self was wise
Wol Euler: yes, "cheating" was a good word for it.
Maxine Walden: I also find that the feeling that a dream conjures can be part of the message, the feeling in the dream or the feeling in recalling the dream
Mickorod Renard: yes,,thats interesting
Maxine Walden: feelings often link our various experiences...
Mickorod Renard: but also some dreams are special in that you can feel or sense something diferent in the aftertaste
Mickorod Renard: some urgence
arabella Ella: @Maxine ... what do you think of the idea some ppl believe that some dreams may reveal experiences from a previous life?
Maxine Walden: and just to say that the many things triggered for us during this discussion...one thing triggering another...may also be the way our mind works in waking and sleeping...sort of like we are living out the dreaming process right here
sophia Placebo: feelings do count even in the real time it was dreamt
Riddle Sideways: SLT chats do seem a middle ground, Maxine
Maxine Walden: Ara, I believe some people do think that...the collective unconscious for me makes it possible for some kind of over-arching memroy to be available...
Adams Rubble: I must go. bye veryone :)
arabella Ella: interesting
arabella Ella: bye Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Adams :)
Wol Euler: bye adams, take care
Mickorod Renard: bye adams
sophia Placebo: bye adams
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams
Wol Euler: wb again gina
arabella Ella: so dreams may have some sort of memes in them too you think Maxine?
Riddle Sideways: seems funny we question our dreams. the feelings in them etc. but don't do the same to waking
gina Broono: crashes
gina Broono: ty
Maxine Walden: possibly, or echoes ara
Mickorod Renard: i keep wanting to ask who the characters are in my dreams
gina Broono: Riddle, how insightful that is
Eliza Madrigal: Riddle: great point, that.
gina Broono: maybe in our dreams we question our waking life
Maxine Walden: we often seem more anchored in waking life, as if it is more 'real', Riddle?
Eliza Madrigal: or whatever part of us that is censoring is 'sleeping'
Mickorod Renard: I very rarely recognise people
gina Broono: does everyone here dream in color?
Mickorod Renard: yes
arabella Ella: yes
Maxine Walden: I have to go to, another meeting, but the chatlog will continue and I will post it later...great discussion...thanks everyone
Eliza Madrigal: often gina
Wol Euler: definitely
gina Broono: me, always
Wol Euler: bye maxine, take care
Mickorod Renard: bye maxine
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Maxine. Thank you
arabella Ella: bye Maxine thanks
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Maxine, thank you
Maxine Walden: shall we continue this next time? This discussion next time?
sophia Placebo: bye maxine
Wol Euler: yes, please
arabella Ella: yes pls
Mickorod Renard: plese
Riddle Sideways: not sure I buy that 'this' current reality is 'THE' waking, real, conscience only world
Pila Mulligan: bye Maxine, thanks
stevenaia Michinaga: thank y0u maxine
Maxine Walden: OK, will consider this s theme session on dreams and reality, etc
Riddle Sideways: ok, bye maxine
gina Broono: Maxin, I'm with you
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off too
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Steve, Riddle
Mickorod Renard: bye steve
Pila Mulligan: bye Steve and Riddle
stevenaia Michinaga: see you all gaine soon
Eliza Madrigal: Seem to be layers of both waking and sleeping, with various types of dreaming woven thoughout both?
Wol Euler: bye steve, bye riddle
Riddle Sideways: bye all andd thank you
Scathach Rhiadra: bye Steve, Riddle
Mickorod Renard: riddle
gina Broono: me too, it was enlightening as always
Wol Euler: and bye gina
gina Broono: till next time
Mickorod Renard: bye gina
Eliza Madrigal: Bye gina :)
arabella Ella: bye gina
Scathach Rhiadra: I must go too, Namasté
gina Broono: have a great evening all
arabella Ella: ciao scath
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Scath. Namaste
Wol Euler: bye scath, take care
Pila Mulligan: by Scathach
sophia Placebo: namaste
Mickorod Renard: bye scath
Wol Euler: let#s shift around, moyra
Wol Euler: good god, there's a yak out there!
Eliza Madrigal: wheer?haha
arabella Ella: a yak?
Wol Euler: behind mick, a few hundred metres out
Moyra Ares: shift around?
Wol Euler: big black hairy thing.
Moyra Ares: oh im all alone here
Wol Euler: right, move to me
arabella Ella smiles ... and does not see the yak
Wol Euler: it's one of my oddities, I like to sit together
Eliza Madrigal: :)
arabella Ella: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Find it Mick?
Mickorod Renard: i cant see one
arabella Ella: has Mick gone exploring?
arabella Ella: brave mick
Wol Euler: due west of us
sophia Placebo: i like to know what is the least desired pillow of the rest pillows if new comer arrived?
arabella Ella: yes i can see the green dot of the yak on my mini map
Eliza Madrigal: Oh...see something out there
Wol Euler: it tends to fill up from here northwards
Mickorod Renard: I think its ram off
Wol Euler: the northeast corner fills last
Mickorod Renard: ran
arabella Ella: you scared it off mick?
Eliza Madrigal: hehe
Mickorod Renard: looks like it
Eliza Madrigal: Indeed SL is like a dream , merrily merrily
Mickorod Renard: ok,,i am off home,,bye everyone
Wol Euler: bye mick, take care
arabella Ella: i must go too ... nite all
sophia Placebo: bue mick
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Mick :)
arabella Ella: bye Mick
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Ara
Pila Mulligan: bye mick
Wol Euler: and bye ara
Pila Mulligan: bye arabella
sophia Placebo: bye ara
Pila Mulligan: hi sophia
Moyra Ares: everybody is leaving
sophia Placebo: hi pila
Wol Euler: the hour is up...
Moyra Ares: oh
Wol Euler: the meetings are every 6 hours, 1am 7am 1pm 7pm
Eliza Madrigal: :) No rule to leave though
Wol Euler: yep
Moyra Ares: i didnt thought about that, i thought people come here and chat 24/7
Wol Euler: some do continue quite a wihle. The record is six hours.
sophia Placebo: mayora may i say : your avatar is perfectly made to make me feel scared:)
Moyra Ares: thanks.....its made for a post apocalyptic sim... :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah! Context is everything. hah
sophia Placebo: i see :) post nuclear mass destruction maybe ?
Moyra Ares: i got asked about getting nightmares when i sitting hours infront of photoshop and painting blood
Wol Euler: yeah...
sophia Placebo: :)
Moyra Ares: no i dont
Eliza Madrigal: yes, easy to wonder. One person sees a scary movie and has nightmares and another not at all
Moyra Ares: its the radiation what caused this
Wol Euler nods
Moyra Ares: we are ghouls in the game...some sort of mutants
Moyra Ares: and we still stick to what we believe are our human values :)
Moyra Ares: well some do others..well they just search food
sophia Placebo: sound intersting
Moyra Ares: many of us just live in the severs
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not great at roleplaying games...still find it tricky to have a male av or the giant wolf. Well, not so much the wolf. No one asks the wolf for history, etc. :)
Moyra Ares: little bit like the morlocs in the time machine
Moyra Ares: it feels like acting
Moyra Ares: i like it
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose if everyone is in a role other than something like themselves, it is easier
Wol Euler: mmmmm, a male av is not in itself roleplaying ... might just be a different bit of you getting out :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes, that's how I'm trying to approach it. Build empathy! haha
Eliza Madrigal: males in SL definitely have fewer choices, ie clothes and such
Wol Euler: just as RL!
sophia Placebo: i like to role play who am i really , dosnt matter what situation would you put me in , but the thing in sl is that the situation is highly modefiable , not like the real life satate where you need ages to change few things
Wol Euler: all my avs speak with natural voices, I do not "play" being any of them
Eliza Madrigal: Ah...it is the context which changes then, Wol...what 'you' do with/in that
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Moyra Ares: as a storyteller i had to roleplay many roles in my past...and i somehow enjoyed experiencing all those characters...i can understand why a writer listens to his characters telling him stories.
Wol Euler: yes, avs are very much like characters, they develop in ways that can be surprising
Eliza Madrigal: I can see that. The situation and setting can speak to you.
Wol Euler: which is like RL. We play different roles there.
Wol Euler: I am different in my mother's house than I am at the bar with my boss
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, and our flexibility is key. Good point
Wol Euler: that difference is at least as great as the diff between Wol and my other avs
sophia Placebo: g2g , bye all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Sophia :)
Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care.
Eliza Madrigal: Pila, still with us?:)
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: contemplating gender roles
Pila Mulligan: last I heard, there's not much actual genetic or scientificly measurable difference between the RL human female and male, something less than 2% -- it is the social role that seems to define us
Moyra Ares: bye sophia
Pila Mulligan: bye sophia
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm..outwardly imposed differences then mostly
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: inherited prejudices and all
Wol Euler: or perhaps it is a difference that arises through experience and age, not genetics?
Pila Mulligan: don't they still talk about the main inlfuences of personality being genetics and environment?
Pila Mulligan: that used to be the theory
Eliza Madrigal: nature/nurture, yes
Wol Euler: genes do have a lot to do with it, yes, from studying twins separated at birth
Wol Euler: they have the oddest similarities when they meet later on
Pila Mulligan: yes, I've seen those interesting twin studies
Wol Euler: like two women wearing identical rings, in second marriages to electricians named RObert
Pila Mulligan: yep
Wol Euler: freaky
Eliza Madrigal: hahah...like they had a code, literally
Eliza Madrigal: that drew in exact details
Pila Mulligan: and how about the heart transplant patient discovering a craving for BigMacs, something the donor had?
Pila Mulligan: I could believe that
Pila Mulligan: but most of our personality seems to come fomr our personal expereince
Pila Mulligan: or a great deal o fit anyway
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, but experience may be what we draw in based on genetics...that's an uncomfortable idea maybe
Eliza Madrigal: at one level anyway
Pila Mulligan: and, Eliza, typical early childhood seems definitely bound by the epxeriences the family allowsthe child to have
Eliza Madrigal: Certainly
Pila Mulligan: so we get a running start from quite a few sources
Pila Mulligan: but evenutally we seem to start preparing our own personal mythoolgy, if we have the opportunity
Eliza Madrigal: conditioning can be limiting...one sibling may 'break out' in one way, while the other stays in the groove
Pila Mulligan: 'I belivee this" and 'i believe that'
Pila Mulligan: yep
Eliza Madrigal: there again flexibility seems to be key. Ability to question and see outside the
Eliza Madrigal: conditioning
Pila Mulligan: being older now I see more of the foundation of beliefs being connected to phyiscal factors than I did when physical factors seemed less imposing
Pila Mulligan: spekaing of flexibility :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hm Pila, what do you mean...beliefs more dominant?
Pila Mulligan: younger people are more inclined to associate thoughts with their mental independence
Wol Euler: it's easy to take the body for granted when it works perfectly all the time :)
Eliza Madrigal: Ah...yes
Pila Mulligan: older people are more invovled in trying to deal with their physical lmitations
Pila Mulligan: so an old fut may yell at a young person for a reason unrelated ot what they yell about
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Physical limitations can bring a lot of perspective
Pila Mulligan: and so exercises like yoga that liberate us physically alos liberate our perception
Wol Euler: brb, someting in my eye
Eliza Madrigal: a tangible way to address those limitations
Pila Mulligan: even that young person may have emotional/muscle memories of being yelled at
Eliza Madrigal: Ah...yes, see that surely
Pila Mulligan is hoping Wol's eye empties easily
Eliza Madrigal: yak dust?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: probably!
Pila Mulligan: beter now?
Pila Mulligan: t*
Wol Euler: yes thanks
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I know that I often cannot understand anything I'm reading unless I get outside to walk, meditate (breathe on it), or sleep on it
Eliza Madrigal: action seems important...circulation
Pila Mulligan: I need time to integrate ideas also Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: we'll sometimes talk here and two days later I'm "Hey! I got it!' haha
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: even though we can't really 'get' it :)
Wol Euler nods
Pila Mulligan: oh, i think we can get pretty much of it :)
Pila Mulligan: I like to look for common elements of a dream and something in waking life -- an easy example is Wol's reference to a dream stimulated by an environmental noise -- then a simple understanding of the dream comes from comparing how the noise appears in the dream with the expreience of the noise when awake
Pila Mulligan: waking life's getting it is similar to that decipehriing
Pila Mulligan: ideas drift through our minds and we associate them with our experience
Pila Mulligan: and they can be pretty close, it seems
Pila Mulligan: sometimes quite lucid
Pila Mulligan: almost the same
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed.
Wol Euler nods
Pila Mulligan: however, for me at least, it can take some time
Eliza Madrigal: Yesterday I remembered out of 'nowhere' what it was like to fall asleep in the back of a car as a child, staring at the stars and streetlights (when seatbelts weren't required)..and wake up so surprised to be home
Wol Euler: :)
Pila Mulligan: :)
Eliza Madrigal: that was a kind of dreamy memory
Moyra Ares: thanks elize...thats a nice memory
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Pila, have you ever had a sense of a sort of eye within a dream..like a pinhole of sorts?

It is as this point that the conversants go out of range and the chatlog ends. Evidence of continuing thoughts, conversations some of which will come again next week, some to continue beyond the scope of the chatlog...