2009.04.26 07:00 - Conscious and Sensory Awareness

The Guardian for this meeting was Adams Rubble. The comments are by Adams Rubble.

I arrived first and was soon joined by Eliza and then Wol 

Adams Rubble: Hello Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Adams :)
Adams Rubble: How are you this morning?
Eliza Madrigal: Rather well...a little scattered maybe. You?
Adams Rubble: Oooooh. I am good. Do you want to talk about it at all?
Eliza Madrigal: Not really....think I've been too 'busy' at night...so is taking me while to wake up and feel clear :)
Adams Rubble: I spent some of yesterday in a swamp and was gladd I wasn;t being chased by anything
Adams Rubble: ah
Eliza Madrigal: hahah.... How fun though...lots to See in a swamp
Adams Rubble: yes, that happens
Adams Rubble: yes, it was pretty but the mosquitoes were starting to buzz. Not biting yet
Adams Rubble: It is quite warm here
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: hello adams, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Mosquitos are definitely not easy to live in harmony with sometimes. hahah
Adams Rubble: Nice to see you this afternoon :)
Wol Euler: likewise!
Adams Rubble: no they are not :)

Sophia and two necomers arrived, one named Vendy; the other known as "guest" in this log did not give permission

Adams Rubble: Hello Vendy :)

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Vendy
Adams Rubble: Hello Sophia :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Sophia :)
Adams Rubble: Please feel welcome to join us Vendy :)
Wol Euler: hello sophie, vendy
Adams Rubble: I haven't met you yet Vendy. Have you been here before?
Vendy Walpole: thank you
Vendy Walpole: No
Eliza Madrigal: Welcome Vendy :)
Vendy Walpole: thanks :)
Adams Rubble: Ah Welcome. I will give you a card about Play as Being
guest: it's like africa
Wol Euler: guest?
Vendy Walpole: got it, thx
Adams Rubble: Hello guest
guest: yes
guest: hell
guest: :)
guest: hello
guest: sorry
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Would you like to join us guest
Adams Rubble: We are a play as Being group
guest: sure
guest: thanks
Adams Rubble: We explore the nature of reality
Eliza Madrigal: For the first time this morning, I woke to a message "IMs capped"...didn't realize that could happen
Wol Euler: oh yes ...
sophia Placebo: guest is from china and doing her major about budism
Adams Rubble: That is a card explaining a little about our group
Wol Euler: not often, but if you are offline for a while
Wol Euler: or if you have a store ...
Adams Rubble: Oh nice to meet you lin
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, good to know. Now I won't be so quick to send people IMs offline
Eliza Madrigal: lin, how interesting :)
guest: nice to meet u too
Wol Euler: welcome, lin
lin Anton: :)
lin Anton: thanks
Adams Rubble: We record our conversations in a log which we put on the wen in our Wiki. Do you have objections to that?
Adams Rubble: guest and Vendy
Vendy Walpole: It is ok
Adams Rubble: Thanks
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to discuss?
Adams Rubble: The other night I was reading a little from Bernadotte Roberts who is a Christian nun who has had an experience with "no self"
Wol Euler: Lin, my we have your permission to include your name and comments in the published log of this session?
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, she is quite interesting
Adams Rubble: And she was making a distinction between seeing the world through our consciousness or self
Adams Rubble: and seeing with our senses only
Adams Rubble: she feels the latter is the one we can not live without
Adams Rubble: I was thinking this is a little like Being seeing
Adams Rubble: the way we would look at ourselves from Being's perspective
Wol Euler nods
Eliza Madrigal: yes, can see that.
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Fael
Wol Euler: hello fael
Adams Rubble: Hellpo Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Vendy Walpole: hi
Eliza Madrigal: Bernadete Roberts also makes a distinction between no ego and no self which is quite fascinating
Wol Euler: say more, please?
Fael Illyar: what's the difference between them?
Eliza Madrigal: I'm not sure I could sum up what she means by this actually, but there being a difference between not operating from ego, and dropping 'self'
Eliza Madrigal: That in the former there is stil a central 'point'
Fael Illyar: ah, I can get that.
Eliza Madrigal: yes?
Fael Illyar: Yes, not operating from ego means there is self but it's not directing the action.
Eliza Madrigal: Not 'in control'
Fael Illyar: yes, that fits I think
Eliza Madrigal: Seems to. Adams, can you say more about what you were reading?
Adams Rubble: hehe. I didn't read that much but started thinking about that point
Vendy Walpole: I wonder, if we drop the self, what happens with our spirit, its becoming a part of the universe?
Adams Rubble: Well Bernadotte Roberts thinks it is a mistake to think of our consciousness as being separate from out bodies
Eliza Madrigal: That is what I would think Vendy...it must be a true a state of perceiving no separation
Vendy Walpole: we become part of the oneness?
Vendy Walpole: without self?
Eliza Madrigal: or are completely aware of that being the case
Adams Rubble: We are part of the oneness
Adams Rubble: we just might not always see it
Vendy Walpole: yes, but become aware of it, when we drop self?
Vendy Walpole: just thinking aloud
Eliza Madrigal: or maybe it doesn't even matter if we are aware of it at that point? Like something beyond awareness....which perhaps isn't as needed.
Adams Rubble: yes, we are thinking with you Vendy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Just thinknig as a distinction...because in an less-ego state we should be aware?
Adams Rubble: Along the lines of separating consciousness from ego that Eliza mentioned
Vendy Walpole: yes, agree, in less ego state, we should be aware too
Adams Rubble: It seems a little like Nisargadatta's I AM
Eliza Madrigal nods
Adams Rubble: awareness seems to imply some lkind of consciousness
Adams Rubble: or does it?
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Radical line of thought in any event
Adams Rubble: words!
Adams Rubble: I think we know awareness when we experience it
Vendy Walpole: I understnd the disctinction in this way, no ego, but still our being is here, but in no self state , we are not aware of our own being
sophia Placebo: im still translating the words in my mind
Eliza Madrigal: Hmm Vendy, yes that's a rather clear summation :)
Vendy Walpole: still trying to make it clearer
Eliza Madrigal: When doing certain mindfulness excercizes...paying close attention to every sensation, sound, etc. .. there is often a hyper-awareness which you tune into which subdues the ego and allows one to feel less separate
Adams Rubble: the senses
Adams Rubble: sensory awareness
Eliza Madrigal: yes
sophia Placebo: i feel awarness is more to things that we can sens them
Vendy Walpole: seems, droping the self is a higher level when awareness is being part of oneness, and egio less state is still able to watch the senses records of one being
Vendy Walpole: ego*
Adams Rubble: I've missed Faenik :)
Eliza Madrigal: You mean aliveness in everything, Sophia?
sophia Placebo: im not sure , the language barrier is big with these terms , i can translate them but cant get out with meaning
sophia Placebo: that is a special distunguish meaning for each one
Adams Rubble: You do well Sophia. I think there is a language barrier even between native English speakers on this
Wol Euler nods
sophia Placebo: but i feel that i apply the ward awarness when i refer to my sensing to things that were around me but didnt sense them , like my clothes over my body
sophia Placebo: in many times im not aware of them but im fully consouce that im waring something
Adams Rubble: yes
Eliza Madrigal: yes, because you know you are wearing something you don't have to 'think' about it
Adams Rubble: I think of awareness as oneness, am I wrong about that?
Adams Rubble: as connected to oneness
Vendy Walpole: conciousness is a mind activity to me and nothing more, if I translate this well
Adams Rubble: feeling oneness
Eliza Madrigal: Vendy, so you'd agree that consciousness can't be separated from body
guest: what's the different between awareness and conciousness?
Vendy Walpole: yes, I see that same Adams
Vendy Walpole: yes, agree
Vendy Walpole: its mind activity
Vendy Walpole: awaraness could be spitir activity
Eliza Madrigal: In this context yes, I'd agree also..that awareness is of oneness
Vendy Walpole: spirit*
Fael Illyar has no idea what you take to be the difference between consciousness and awareness though...
Vendy Walpole: I say it very simply cause my English, not mu first language too
Adams Rubble: caan there be a conscious awareness and a sensory awareness coexisting?
Adams Rubble: do they come togteher?
Adams Rubble: together
Vendy Walpole: this is a difficult question
Eliza Madrigal: thinking
Eliza Madrigal: I think bringing consciousness into sensory...it becomes what seems like a new thing but isn't..is really just...Hm..
Eliza Madrigal: yes, awareness of what is
Fael Illyar: would someone mind explaining to me the difference between awareness and consciousness here?
Vendy Walpole: if awaranes try to see things through senses, it can do it , then it becomes consiousness awaraness
sophia Placebo: lets try this : if you are arrogant but you dont know that your acts are of arrogance , is that loss of awarness or concousness?
Vendy Walpole: loss of awaraness, I think
Vendy Walpole: we can't be arrogant without using the mind
Eliza Madrigal: which maybe you can't get without being more conscious? haha
Fael Illyar: oh, ok, I think I get it now :)
Adams Rubble: yes Vendy!!
Vendy Walpole: :)
Wol Euler: as a practical example: when driving I am aware of hte other cars and do not bump into them, but I am not conscious of them unless they do something unexpected and dangerous and make me think about them
Vendy Walpole: this is a good exmple
Eliza Madrigal: then they 'pop'...yes great example
sophia Placebo: intersting , the contrary to my exaple about clothes
Vendy Walpole: I drive in that way, ussually, whic I do not recommend :)
sophia Placebo: example*
Eliza Madrigal: yes, both work at diff. angles
Adams Rubble: Hmm. Sophia, I thought it was the same :)
Wol Euler: I think we couldn't drive well in big cities if we were _consciuos_ of every vehicle all the time
Adams Rubble: If we lose awareness of the other cars we may do something stupid
Wol Euler: it's just to much information coming in too fast
Adams Rubble: although it might be the unconscious that is aware of the other cars
Eliza Madrigal: Right, which begs the question of whether 'no self' is a good idea for beings functioning...though less-ego seems to be!
Adams Rubble: Well Bernadotte Roberts didn;t remember to eat when she reached the state of no self
Adams Rubble: (might be good for me for a while)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: The self is a necessary filter then...hahah
Vendy Walpole: yes, she is not aware of her own being then
Vendy Walpole: can understand it
Fael Illyar has sometimes forgot to eat for long periods... although never for longer than one day
Vendy Walpole: probabaly she got alarm awakening from her consiousness
Vendy Walpole: what it was in dabger :)
Vendy Walpole: danger*
Vendy Walpole: (her being in danger I mean)
Eliza Madrigal: I find this distinction very helpful to the PaB discussions Adams...glad you brought her up
Adams Rubble: All of you have made some very interesting observations
Adams Rubble: I have lots to think about
Wol Euler: agreed, this was a good session
Eliza Madrigal nods
Vendy Walpole: I think it is very useful to think aloud and share thoughts in this way
Adams Rubble: yes
sophia Placebo: i have to leave :) i enjoyed this discussion
Eliza Madrigal: :) Bye Sophia
Fael Illyar: See you later sophia :)
Wol Euler: bye sophia, take care
Adams Rubble: Take care Sophia. Thank you :)
guest: i have to go too:)
guest: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guest, pleasure to meet you
Adams Rubble: bye guest. Thanks for coming :)
Vendy Walpole: thank you for this opportunity, bye
Wol Euler: and bye Lin, nice meeting you
guest: :)thanks
Fael Illyar: See you later Lin :)
lin Anton: thank you:)
Wol Euler: bye vendy
sophia Placebo: bye all , nice to meet you , see you later
Eliza Madrigal: Vendy, we're here quite often...4 times a day :)
Eliza Madrigal: (not all same people though.hah)
guest: got it:)
Vendy Walpole: I will come for sure again :)
Adams Rubble: bye vendy Thanks!
guest: thanks
guest: bye
Vendy Walpole: waves to all
Fael Illyar: See you later Vendy :)
Eliza Madrigal: Is there a workshop today?
Wol Euler: RL is nudging my elbow, I must go. Bye for now, everyone, take care.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Wol, See you soon :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Wol :)
Adams Rubble: bye Wol
Adams Rubble: There is a Senses workshop at 7pm SLT
Fael Illyar: middle of the night for me
Eliza Madrigal: Hm, what is that?
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: It is the Phoenix group which has come into SL
Adams Rubble: They will also meet once a month
Adams Rubble: They will have speakers
Adams Rubble: tongiht is a scientist
Fael Illyar: Oh... I'm somewhat interested then ...
Adams Rubble: yes Fael :)
Adams Rubble: Fael and I met them
Fael Illyar: in RL
Adams Rubble: at the same time we met :)
Adams Rubble: in RL
Eliza Madrigal: Ah...what is the Phoenix group?
Adams Rubble: They meet regularyl in RL and go on trips together
Adams Rubble: they have wide interests
Adams Rubble: It is a discussion rgoup in RL
Adams Rubble: moving into SL
Fael Illyar: Well, this was an interesting conversation I bumped into :)
Adams Rubble: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option...149&Itemid=179
Adams Rubble: that is the link to their page
Eliza Madrigal: hehe..certainly a great way to start a Sunday
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks, Adams :)
Fael Illyar: I just had got home and barely settled down when I suddenly just had to login
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: We pulled you here Fael, haha
Fael Illyar: Yes, you did :)
Fael Illyar: even left a seat free for me ;)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fael Illyar: the seat I'd pop on in :)
Adams Rubble: yes :)
Eliza Madrigal: Yes, thought that too...and wondered who the one on the other side was for...though they didn't appear...
Eliza Madrigal: didn't hear the call. haha
Adams Rubble: hehe
Fael Illyar: or heard but couldn't come
Adams Rubble: ah, sad
Eliza Madrigal: Well, they are probably watching tv
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Adams Rubble: or fighting off mosquitoes
Eliza Madrigal: Ahahha! Yes, I'm sure that's it
Fael Illyar: we can spend the rest of the day listing reasons ;)
Adams Rubble: yes, we could
Eliza Madrigal: Once, my mother was sent a pair of earrings with enormous mosquitos in them...from Australia
Adams Rubble: !!!
Fael Illyar: hehe, funny :)
Eliza Madrigal: Since then I've not felt so bothered by our Miami version
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: I wonder if they could help as a warning
Fael Illyar: real mosquitoes inside something transparent?
Eliza Madrigal: yes...inside a light amber as I recall
Adams Rubble: wow. natural then?
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I'll have to call and see if she has them still
Adams Rubble: good place for mosquitoes
Eliza Madrigal: haha!!
Fael Illyar: bit more effective than just something made to the shape then :)
Eliza Madrigal: Okay....better run.
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Eliza :)
Adams Rubble: bye Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for this wonderful session. Will probably sign back on if I can, to see if the dream discussion continues later
Adams Rubble: I have to run too. I have choses to do while people are out :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye guys
Adams Rubble: Yes, thanks for coming Eliza
Fael Illyar: For anyone interested in Dreams, I'd recommend the movie Paprika
Adams Rubble: and you too Fael :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
Eliza Madrigal: Paprika...k...will look for it. Thanks
Adams Rubble: Thank you Fael