2008.09.21 19:00 - Where shall I take them?

Rowan Masala was the guardian for this meeting. The comments below are hers.

My friend Jimmy, new to PaB, and I arrived together, followed shortly by several others...

Rowan Masala: Welcome, Adams
Rowan Masala: Hi Steven
Adams Rubble: Hello Rowan, Steve and J1mmy
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Adams, Rowan, J1mmy
J1mmy Weiland: hello everyone
Adams Rubble: I don't think I have met you J1mmy
Rowan Masala: Jimmy is new tonight
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you
Rowan Masala: he's a friend of mine and Steven's
Adams Rubble: Ah
Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu. Good to see you :)
Rowan Masala: greetings, Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Avastu Maruti: friends
Adams Rubble: I have a question I would like to ask Avastu
stevenaia Michinaga: hello avastu, it's been a while
Avastu Maruti: are you sure about that, my friend?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I have spent a long time finding the person who was there when i was born and will be there when I die
Adams Rubble: Now Nisargadatta and others say that birth and death are an illusion
Adams Rubble: How do those two things go together?
Avastu Maruti: who is it that was born and will die? How do you know this existence?
Avastu Maruti: that knowing is beyond
Adams Rubble: S is it the knowing that is the illusion?
Avastu Maruti: illusion points to something that appears to be, yet isn't what it seems
Avastu Maruti: the "Don" is the illusion
Avastu Maruti: something knows that - THAT which knows the coming and going of Don is what you are
Rowan Masala: Don?
J1mmy Weiland: yes.. .what does the term refer to?
Adams Rubble: Adams is an illusion Rowan
Rowan Masala: ah, ok

Rowan Masala: well, it looks like this is the group for tonight. welcome, all
Rowan Masala: would you like to continue the birth/death discussion, and open it to the group? if not, I have another topic in mind
Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene
Rowan Masala: welcome Adelene
Adelene Dawner: Hi all, Sorry I'm late - lost track of the time.
Rowan Masala: np at all
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Adelene

Rowan Masala: So, Jimmy, this is a group that meets 28 times a week
Rowan Masala: every 6 hours
Rowan Masala: to discuss Being and meditation and anything else that comes up
J1mmy Weiland: wow... almost like one of the five pillars of faith in Islam
J1mmy Weiland: praying 5 times a day
Rowan Masala: the discussion leaders in each slot are called "guardians", and I am tonight's guardian
Rowan Masala: yes, although this group is not religiously affiliated
Rowan Masala: what I was thinking about today, and wondering if you all might like to discuss, what happens with the body during meditation
Rowan Masala: and how being in SL during the meditation affects that
J1mmy Weiland: in meditation, we shut down visual stimulii, do we not?
Rowan Masala: does everyone here close their eyes during the meditation?
Adelene Dawner: not always, here
Adams Rubble: same here
stevenaia Michinaga: I usually do as it intensifies what I am seeing
Rowan Masala: I find that I have to, or I'm too distracted
stevenaia Michinaga: although I once was doing visulaization while driving and I kept my eyes open and used my mind to see
stevenaia Michinaga: sort of like multichannel seeing
Rowan Masala: but the reason I was thinking about this was that Steven said that he sort of leaves his body during his meditations, whereas I tend to come more fully into my body then, instead, as I've mentioned, being in my screen and keyboard and mind
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Rowan Masala: Everyone, let's take 9 seconds or so now
Rowan Masala: thank you
Rowan Masala: so multichannel seeing, Steven?
Rowan Masala smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: kept me on the road and into my design problem at hand
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: what about the rest of you--is your experience one of leaving the body behind during meditation?
Adelene Dawner: Generally no - it depends on what I focus on, and I usually focus on sensory things that require body awareness.
J1mmy Weiland: i think you can choose to leave the body, or stay in it... its a question of ..technique?
Adelene Dawner grins at Jim
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: I think I have yet to learn enough technique to allow me a choice
J1mmy Weiland: what steve said about driving reminds me of one time i witnessed a crash on a freeway
stevenaia Michinaga: and you know this driver was doing thing?
J1mmy Weiland: nobody was hurt, fortunately......
J1mmy Weiland: but i was driving at 70 mph and had the music in my car very, very loud
J1mmy Weiland: i can only feel vibrations
Rowan Masala nods
J1mmy Weiland: then a car suddenly swerved and spun out of control and hit the wall and stopped in the middle
J1mmy Weiland: right in front of me
Rowan Masala: how terrifying!
J1mmy Weiland: lucikly i was alert enough to slow down
J1mmy Weiland: i saw tnbough that the driver and passnger was not hurt, and drove carefully around
J1mmy Weiland: then i realized time had slowed down to crawl and everything was aboslutely silent
J1mmy Weiland: because at that moment, i suddenly heard the loud pounding music again
J1mmy Weiland: that i had on all this time
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: fascinating when that happens
Rowan Masala: I have the same sort of memory of the time my car rolled over 1-1/4 times
Rowan Masala: it's like it happened in slo mo, totally quiet
Rowan Masala: and one time I fell down the steps--I was watching myself do it in slow motion
Rowan Masala: and it seemed that there was time for me to stop and think, what part of myself should I land on?, and adjust my body accordingly
stevenaia Michinaga: i did that once too, just once 1/2 roll on the roof, I looked up at the floor thinking, it's never been that clean, and no scrach on me
J1mmy Weiland: so meditation is an attempt to harness what our bodies are already capable of.
Rowan Masala: hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: good point
Rowan Masala smiles, pensively
Rowan Masala: does Islam have a meditative component outside of prayer, Jimmy?
Rowan Masala: or is your experience with this more from your Shamanic trances?

Rowan Masala: hello Bob
Rowan Masala: would you like to come down and join us?
b0b27 Hellershanks: nope
Rowan Masala: o...k...
J1mmy Weiland: i know very little of islam at this point.... i'd have to say i know more of the shamanistic side. :)
Adelene Dawner: Vampire roleplayer. :P
Rowan Masala: Bob was on the roof, for those of you who didn't see him
Rowan Masala nods
stevenaia Michinaga: shamanistic side of islam?
J1mmy Weiland: heh. no, i meant the shamanistic side of .. erm ... mystical experences
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, ok
J1mmy Weiland: i know of sufism. which would be the "mystical wing" of islam, but have not studied it
Rowan Masala: there's the chime. everyone please take 9 seconds
Rowan Masala: thank you
Avastu Maruti: where shall I take them?
Rowan Masala: lol
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Rowan Masala: wherever you like, Avastu, or you could let them take you instead :)
Avastu Maruti: there is nothing to take, my friend
J1mmy Weiland: can you enlighten me... why 9 seconds?
Rowan Masala: Pema, the man who started the group, had this idea that we could take 1% of our time for meditation
Adelene Dawner: Arbitrary math ... joke... thing. 9 seconds is 1% of 15 minutes.
Rowan Masala laughs
J1mmy Weiland: i see, 9 seconds every 15 minutes :)
Rowan Masala: I struggled with it for some time, and still do a little--thinking longer time periods less often would be more effective for me
J1mmy Weiland: see, it takes me that long to even start thinking about meditation
Rowan Masala nods
stevenaia Michinaga: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio..._in_a_Nutshell
Adelene Dawner: I think part of the idea is that if you do it so often, you'll never completely *stop* thinking about meditation.
J1mmy Weiland: thanks, steve, i will be sure to review that
stevenaia Michinaga: the short version
Rowan Masala: that's a good point, Adelene
Rowan Masala: I hadn't really thought of it in that way
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: I see it as a tool that gets sharpened with use
Rowan Masala: there's no mandate, of course, that we do it that way
Rowan Masala: I think Pema just wanted to see what would happen
J1mmy Weiland: where is he, by the way?
Rowan Masala: I have no idea--he doesn't come to all of the meetings
Rowan Masala: hi Corvi!!
Rowan Masala: welcome!
Rowan Masala: Jimmy, this is Corvi. Corvi--my friend Jimmy, who is joining us for the first time tonight
J1mmy Weiland: hello, corvi :0
J1mmy Weiland: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello all! Hello Jimmy..
J1mmy Weiland: this is a challenge... to snap into meditation at will and hold it there for 9 seconds and then let go
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: for me, it's less like traditional meditation and simply more of a pause
stevenaia Michinaga: the intent is to do it at the 1/4 hour, 9 seconds is 1% of the time, what Pema equates to a 1% tax on your time to meditate
Rowan Masala: Pema's an astrophysicist at Princeton, if that helps explain his choice of the math at all :)
stevenaia Michinaga: with that you will "see", perhaps not better but certainly more often
J1mmy Weiland: "tax".... do you really have to use that word?
Rowan Masala: LOL
stevenaia Michinaga: not my term
Rowan Masala: well, it's a lot less than a tithe
J1mmy Weiland: a tip?
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: I like that
stevenaia Michinaga: someting universal about tax
Rowan Masala: but not if it has negative connotations for some
Rowan Masala: think of it in whatever terms you like, Jimmy
J1mmy Weiland: indeed
Rowan Masala: an offering, a snack, a pause, a tip
J1mmy Weiland: being an IT guy, i think i'll call it... downtime
Rowan Masala smiles and nods
stevenaia Michinaga: or uptime
Rowan Masala: system maintenace, perhaps
J1mmy Weiland: i am ready to jump into the the 9 seconds this time
Avastu Maruti: rebooting consciousness?
Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts...
J1mmy Weiland: rebooting every 15 min. thats about right for Microsoft
Rowan Masala: speaking of which
Rowan Masala: there's the chime
Rowan Masala: a reboot, or whatever you want to call it, please
Rowan Masala: thank you
Adelene Dawner: Joyous. ^.^
Rowan Masala: yes, Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: Yes. :D
Rowan Masala smiles
J1mmy Weiland: i was chortling a bit this time, but i think i managed to get into my 9 seconds
Rowan Masala: I don't think I've heard you use that term before, Adelene :)
Rowan Masala: and what was it like for you, Jimmy?
J1mmy Weiland: actually, it was like a bit of recognition
Adelene Dawner: It's not one I use lightly. Only when it's true.
Rowan Masala: really glad to hear you use it then, Adelene
Rowan Masala: what sort of recognition, Jimmy?
J1mmy Weiland: hmm of the repeating nature of the brief mediation
J1mmy Weiland: its like you're skipping over the last 15 minutes to the last meditation
Rowan Masala looks at Jimmy and smiles softly
J1mmy Weiland: and recreating that state of being
J1mmy Weiland: its very interesting. :)
Rowan Masala: Corvi, how are you and Crow tonight?
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: uh...better.
Rowan Masala grins
Rowan Masala: well, better is something
Rowan Masala: bad day?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm...a struggly kind of week.
Rowan Masala: good word, struggly
J1mmy Weiland: i hate those!
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "it isn't a pleasant thing..but I hope it will be useful."
Rowan Masala: ah, one of those weeks
Rowan Masala: do you have any particular practices that help you get through struggly times?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and some parts were very fun..puzzles to put together.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: lots and lots...and added 9 seconds to the pile this time.
Rowan Masala: and what did that do to the pile?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: made it all work a bit better, I think...made the struggly parts easier, the fun parts funner, and the whole struggle a bit more productive...at least I hope that's the upshot.
Rowan Masala: wow
Corvuscorva Nightfire: greased the wheels.
Rowan Masala: ah, wheels--there's an idea. I think I'm still working with square blocks
Rowan Masala: lol
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well...probably me too.
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: we seem to have wound down right as the hour approached
Rowan Masala: let's have a final pause, reboot, tip, tax, grease for wheel thing
Adelene Dawner blinks. An hour already?
J1mmy Weiland: :)
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: thank you all
J1mmy Weiland: thank you, rowan
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Avastu Maruti: friends
Rowan Masala: be well, Avastu
Adelene Dawner: Good night, Avastu. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Rowan, and you, Avastu, were the funniest I've seen
stevenaia Michinaga: poof, he's gone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Goodbye.
Rowan Masala: perhaps he found somewhere to take his 9 seconds after all
J1mmy Weiland: good to meet you again, steve
Rowan Masala: goodnight, Corvi
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Rowan Masala: good to see you
Rowan Masala: goodnight Jimmy, Steve, Adelene
Adelene Dawner: 'night all :)
J1mmy Weiland: i can't decide which bird i am more into, adelene's parrot or corvu's crow
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: just be glad I don't have my drakelet with me
J1mmy Weiland: heheh
Rowan Masala: he'd insist on being your choice
Rowan Masala: goodnight!
J1mmy Weiland: hm mmm
J1mmy Weiland: good night