2008.09.10 13:00 - Choosing tea and gender

 The guardian for this session was Quilty. The comments are his(or hers?).

Shortly after I arrive, Fael turns up wearing wings and a glowing halo.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Fael
Fael Illyar: Hi Quilty :)
Quilty Bookmite: you're looking angelic tonight. :-)
Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
Fael Illyar: oh, you look a bit different too :)
Quilty Bookmite: I do?
Fael Illyar: getting closer to your RL shape?
Quilty Bookmite: I don't think I've changed my shape. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Probably just ill fitting clothes.
Fael Illyar: it might just be that it's been a long time since I saw you last :)
Quilty Bookmite: It is indeed.
Quilty Bookmite: How are you anyway?
Fael Illyar: I'm good :)
Fael Illyar: you?
Quilty Bookmite: Also good.
Fael Illyar: somehow the participation at PaBs seems to be low today.
Quilty Bookmite: It seems to have dipped a bit recently.
Quilty Bookmite: Thank you for joining the new group by the way.

The new group sprang from yesterdays PaB chat at this time.

Fael Illyar: summer holidays over
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Fael Illyar: well, I can't say if I'll stay a member :)
Quilty Bookmite: That's no problem. I won't be offended. :-)
Fael Illyar: depends a bit on what the group ends up doing :)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I'm not really sure yet.
Quilty Bookmite: I know it will be completely legal anyway. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Also, I don;t want to make people feel too uncomfortable.
Quilty Bookmite: But we thought we might use advertising techniques.
Fael Illyar has always felt like she doesn't want to own much.
Quilty Bookmite: Then you will be perfect for the group. :-)
Fael Illyar: mostly because I don't want to have too much clutter around my house :P
Quilty Bookmite: You go for minimalism?
Fael Illyar: yes :)
Fael Illyar: pretty consistently that in most things.
Fael Illyar: well, some sort of a balance
Quilty Bookmite: But not necessarily your appearance in SL. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I admire minimalism but I would never be able to achieve it. :-)
Fael Illyar: haha, my appearance in SL is not physical thing :P
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Fael Illyar: I don't buy a lot of stuff in SL though :)
Quilty Bookmite: I did go on a bit of a spemding spree trying to make myself look more like myself.
Fael Illyar: hehe :)
Quilty Bookmite: But then I don't have the talent to create things myself.
Fael Illyar hasn't really put much effort into looking like her RL self here.
Fael Illyar: feels like there's no point :)
Quilty Bookmite: Not many people do. It was a bit of a personal crusade. I would never expect other people to try it.
Quilty Bookmite: I found a place today that can make SL faces from a photo of yourself. They were shockingly expensive!

Vertigo arrives.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Vertigo.
Fael Illyar: yes, those do cost surprisingly much
Fael Illyar: Hi Vertigo
Vertigo Ethaniel: :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste
Quilty Bookmite: namaste
Fael Illyar looks at the empty spot between.
Vertigo Ethaniel: nice to meet you quilty, and fael, hi *poke*

I move to fill the empty gap.

Quilty Bookmite: Not any more. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry Vertigo. Beat you to it.
Fael Illyar: not quite what I had in mind though :P

I move back to my original place so that Vertigo can close the gap. We are all sitting next to each other with Fael in the middle.

Vertigo Ethaniel: there
Quilty Bookmite: Fair enough. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: except im hovering
Quilty Bookmite: Me too.
Fael Illyar: yes, it happens if you sit again while sitting

Vertigo and I stand up and sit down. I don't like heights and I'm guessing from Vertigos name he doesn't either. :-)

Quilty Bookmite: Do either of you have a particular topic to discuss?
Fael Illyar: hmmh... falling flat on your face.

I assumed at this point that Fael meant she was having trouble thinking of a topic. This wasn't the case.

Vertigo Ethaniel: heh, why that? did you just do it?
Quilty Bookmite: Do what?
Fael Illyar: well, mentally :P
Vertigo Ethaniel: ah
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Fael Illyar: it tends to happen from time to time that you sort of take things for granted and then it happens :)
Fael Illyar: this morning was the last time.
Fael Illyar: for me
Vertigo Ethaniel: do go on
Quilty Bookmite: What happened?
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Fael Illyar: I found myself clinging to things, letting them go and then clinging to something else
Fael Illyar: unable to stop clinging to something for a while
Fael Illyar: no problems letting go but ... clinging again to something else right after
Fael Illyar: like when choosing which tea to drink :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: mm
Quilty Bookmite: how did you feel about it?

Umbriel arrives and takes a seat. We continue the discussion on clinging.

Quilty Bookmite: hi Umbriel.
Fael Illyar: Hi Umb :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: greetings umb
Umbriel Levenque: Metta
Quilty Bookmite: Fael was discussing falling flat on her face and clinging.
Umbriel Levenque: It is nice to be among such polite friends again
Quilty Bookmite: You have been amongst not so polite friends?
Umbriel Levenque: Please continue your discussion. I will listen.
Umbriel Levenque: Not important Quilty. Life is life
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: fael, we are creatures of habit, and theres no shame in that
Fael Illyar: of course :)
Quilty Bookmite: So Fael, how did the clinging make you feel?
Fael Illyar: well, it mostly bothered me that it was taking me ages to choose which tea to drink
Fael Illyar: when I usually just let my hand pick something with no decisions
Quilty Bookmite: Is no decisions a lack of clinging?
Quilty Bookmite: Or are you clinging on to an idea that you shouldn;t make decisions?
Fael Illyar: a decision is clinging in a way.
Fael Illyar: so, better leave it for things that need it.
Fael Illyar: choosing the tea doesn't
Vertigo Ethaniel: do you have a quota of decisions?
Fael Illyar: what bothered me was that I was having doubts about my choice of tea.
Quilty Bookmite: Were you in a hurry?
Fael Illyar: not at all ... although I felt like it.
Fael Illyar: part of the cause :)
Quilty Bookmite: I think clinging is a natural state for human beings. We can't just choose to stop doing it,
Fael Illyar: it will happen sometimes, yes.
Vertigo Ethaniel: look at it this way... you had to pick one tea, and only one... doesnt mean any of them is greater than the others, or lesser... its just the one that was picked
Fael Illyar: That's the way I'm looking at it now :)
Fael Illyar: I got over it while taking a walk earlier today
Quilty Bookmite: And we are just dragging it all up again. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry.
Fael Illyar: if you can drag it back up, it's not dealt with yet :P
Quilty Bookmite: True, but maybe it doesn't need to be dealt with yet. I don't know.
Quilty Bookmite: You are aware of it anyway. :-)
Fael Illyar: the core of it was that I had forgotten to trust myself for a while :)
Quilty Bookmite: It happens. :-)
Fael Illyar: yes, unfortunately, it does.
Quilty Bookmite: To my Buddhist perspective, all things have the Buddha nature, even the clinging.
Umbriel Levenque listens
Vertigo Ethaniel is freezing!
Fael Illyar: Of course :)
Quilty Bookmite: i'm not sure I want to say very much about that. :-) Buddhism isn;t really the subject.
Fael Illyar: but not trusting myself was forgetting my own Buddha nature.
Vertigo Ethaniel: to a degree, yes
Umbriel Levenque: We appreciate and are interested to hear various views Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: But the slef that didn't trust yourself also has the Buddha nature. :-)
Fael Illyar: yes, it's just unhappy if it doesn't know it :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: i believe its important to keep questioning ourselves and those things we hold sacred, else we run the risk of turning religious
Fael Illyar: so it prefers to know it :)
Quilty Bookmite: Questioning is good. Not so sure about blaming. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: 'It' sounds like an ego to me Fael
Fael Illyar: Umbriel, that's exactly what it is.

According to my radar, someone is standing in chat range. I invite him in. It turns out he is uncomfortable with his ability in English but it certainly doesn't show.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Samuel.
Samuel Krams: hi
Umbriel Levenque: Metta
Fael Illyar: Hello Samuel
Quilty Bookmite: Would you like to join us?
Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste, samuel
Samuel Krams: I think my English level is not as good as yours
Fael Illyar: That's not a problem :)
Samuel Krams: ok then
Quilty Bookmite: We don't mind if you sit and listen.
Umbriel Levenque: I'm not an English native speaker either Samuel
Fael Illyar: I'm not native speaker either.
Quilty Bookmite: Or if you want to speak we will be as patient as we can. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: we dont require talkative people... look at me :P
Samuel Krams: hi everybody
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Samuel.
Umbriel Levenque: Welcome Samuel

I do the introduction.

Quilty Bookmite: This is a group called Play As Being. We meet here 4 times a day...
Samuel Krams: 4 times a day?
Quilty Bookmite: The chats are recorded on a web page: http://playasbeing.wik.is/. Do you mind your words being on the internet?
Fael Illyar: not all of us at once :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: we come and go as we please
Fael Illyar: there are around 40 people who participate regularly.
Quilty Bookmite: It is a fairly large group but only a few come to each chat. :-)
Samuel Krams: I see...
Samuel Krams: and which kind of chats do you have?
Vertigo Ethaniel: we discuss matters of a philosophical and spiritual nature
Quilty Bookmite: We discuss various things but mainly around the practice of Play As Being.
Quilty Bookmite: the main practice of Play As Being is to simply stop for 9 seconds every 15 minutes and become aware of what is going on around you...
Samuel Krams: and what does exactly mean Play As Being?
Quilty Bookmite: Take a mental step back.
Vertigo Ethaniel: short meditation, in other words
Quilty Bookmite: There are enhancements to this prwctice but that is the original form. It was devised as a kind of experiment.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: So, do you mind your words being recorded?
Samuel Krams: oh, there isn't any problem at all
Quilty Bookmite: Good. Thank you. :-)
Samuel Krams: You are welcome
Vertigo Ethaniel: you only need contribute what you feel comfortable with
Samuel Krams: Ok, thanks
Quilty Bookmite: The website explains more about the practice and has some very useful excerts from previous chats.
Umbriel Levenque nods
Samuel Krams: I'll visit it
Vertigo Ethaniel: back to the topic... questioning the self
Fael Illyar: yes, the excerpts give a pretty good idea of the topics we cover here.
Quilty Bookmite: Sure Vertigo. What would you like to say?
Fael Illyar: Yes, the self has the tendency to forget what it is and needs reminders :)
Quilty Bookmite: Gentle and loving reminders. :-)
Fael Illyar: Yes, it needs reminded, sometimes, that it's fine the way it is.
Vertigo Ethaniel: the self is just the mental form of your existance
Vertigo Ethaniel: it serves a purpose in daily life
Umbriel Levenque nods. Yes fine the way it is indeed Quilty.
Vertigo Ethaniel: but it doesnt control you
Umbriel Levenque: It doesn't control us unless we let it
Fael Illyar: it can control you but that's a recipe for disaster.
Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, true
Umbriel Levenque: They come out as obssessive habits
Quilty Bookmite: But it is our "default" position to let the self lead us.
Fael Illyar: yes, that's the way we're taught to act when we grow up in today's society
Vertigo Ethaniel: obsessive? yes, maybe. but habits arent inherently bad.
Vertigo Ethaniel: its how you control them that matters.
Samuel Krams: What would be the difference between "self" and "ego"?
Vertigo Ethaniel: ah, good question samuel
Umbriel Levenque: If becoming strongly attached a way of doing things, then it could become obssessive
Fael Illyar: I see no difference, really.
Quilty Bookmite: They are pretty much the same Sam.
Umbriel Levenque: Agree
Quilty Bookmite: Habits are not necessarily obsessive.
Quilty Bookmite: The habit of picking out a tea at random doesn;t sound like an obsessive action. It's simply useful.
Vertigo Ethaniel: obsessive by definition means you think about it all the time
Umbriel Levenque: No it isn't but constantly thinking/reasoning about how tea should be picked CAN become obssessive as an example
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Umbriel Levenque: A friend told me 'Let the Being be'
Fael Illyar: my usual way of choosing the tea doesn't involve any thinking at all :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: :)
Fael Illyar: my hand sort of just takes the tea
Umbriel Levenque: Of course I know that Fael
Quilty Bookmite: Sometimes it is good to break out of your usual habits just to become more aware of them.
Umbriel Levenque: Indeed
Quilty Bookmite: The experience Fael had this morning is just something else new with its own lessons.
Quilty Bookmite: Talking of which... Help yourself to tea or coffee Sam. Tea is on the table, coffee behind me.
Samuel Krams: Ty
GreenTea(Matcha): Mmmhh... enjoy the best green tea Quilty Bookmite
Quilty Bookmite: Do you have any questions Sam?
Quilty Bookmite: By the way, does anyone know if there is a notecard for newcomers?
Samuel Krams: I think I'm just understand what are you all talking about ;-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: your english is better than you think
Quilty Bookmite: It certainly seems fine to me.
Samuel Krams: Thank you vertigo
Quilty Bookmite: Better than many native speakers.
Samuel Krams: But I'm not feel confident
Vertigo Ethaniel: i understand
Umbriel Levenque: I understand you perfectly Samuel
Vertigo Ethaniel: i tried learning german, japanese, and french... i wasnt too good im afraid...
Quilty Bookmite: Well, if you make a mistake I promise I won't laugh. :-)
Fael Illyar: as long as you're understood, no problem :)
Samuel Krams: Ty you are very kind
Umbriel Levenque: My grammar is terrible and it gets worse as the day wears on
Quilty Bookmite: I haven't noticed Umbriel.
Umbriel Levenque: Thank you Quilty!
Fael Illyar: oh ... I just realized today is a rather male meeting here.

Yes, Fael is currently the only woman at the table.

Quilty Bookmite: So it is. Unusual. I'm usually outnumbered.
Fael Illyar remembers having the opposite a few days ago.

Sam asks an interesting question.

Samuel Krams: is there any difference when men and women are outnumbered?
Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, i was the odd one out :P
Vertigo Ethaniel: last night
Samuel Krams: in the issues, I mean
Fael Illyar: that's a good question :)
Quilty Bookmite: In this group, I haven't noticed much of a difference.
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Fael Illyar: can't say I can see any offhand :)
Quilty Bookmite: It's surprising.
Vertigo Ethaniel: there is a different
Vertigo Ethaniel: difference
Vertigo Ethaniel: but its subtle
Vertigo Ethaniel: i think we guys tend to talk about more abstract philosophical issues
Quilty Bookmite: That's true. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: the girls.. im not sure, havent put my finger on it yet
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: More practical?
Vertigo Ethaniel: possibly
Fael Illyar: ah, right, the unwillingness of guys to talk in detail about themselves?
Quilty Bookmite: yes, probably. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: lol... yea, something to overcome of course
Umbriel Levenque: Um... possibly yes
Quilty Bookmite: A form of clinging. :-)
Fael Illyar smiles.
Umbriel Levenque: We often sit and have a drink but not much talk going on just like now
Umbriel Levenque: When things get bit personal
Quilty Bookmite: Or maybe we just like talking in abstract terms. :-)
Fael Illyar: sure :)
Quilty Bookmite: So there are obviously gender roles in conversation. If someone's avatar is not the same gender as themselves, do they asume the opposite gender role?
Quilty Bookmite: That's an abstract question. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: hehe
Umbriel Levenque: Though at PaB, even males are more open to discuss things about themselves and people
Vertigo Ethaniel: depends on the person, the angle of the sun, the alignment of venus and jupiter, etc
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: True, I think that is why there doesn;t seem to be such a strong difference.
Fael Illyar: Yes, although having an AV of the other gender might make it easier to overcome such things :)

At this point I look in my inventory and find a female AV. I wear it, much to the surprise of the other in the chat.

Umbriel Levenque: O.o
Quilty Bookmite: Interesting experiment. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: crickey
Fael Illyar: Oh, Quilty has female AV too :)
Quilty Bookmite: Actually, this is my wife.

By which I mean it is an AV I put together that looks like my wife. She used it for a little while when I first signed up to SL.

Fael Illyar was just about to ask.
Umbriel Levenque: :-)

I am uncomfortably aware that I am sitting cross-legged, much to my surprise. I change to the kneeling pose.

Quilty Bookmite: Maybe I should sit in a more ladylike pose. :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: i dont have any other avs... just the one
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Fael Illyar: that's as ladylike as you get on these pillows :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: lol
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Fael Illyar: We do tend to act differently when we look different :)
Fael Illyar: in RL it's limited to just clothing though
Vertigo Ethaniel: very true
Fael Illyar: I act somewhat different in my dragon form :P
Vertigo Ethaniel: thats what makes the internet so powerful... you can be whatever you want to be..
Vertigo Ethaniel: however, i tend to just be myself regardless!
Umbriel Levenque: Indeed
Quilty Bookmite: It would be strange to see a fire breathing angel. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I'm certainly finding that.
Vertigo Ethaniel: sam, come sit next to me
Vertigo Ethaniel: for a group photo
Samuel Krams: ok
Quilty Bookmite: You're going to capture my new form?
Vertigo Ethaniel: haha
Quilty Bookmite: Does my makeup look OK? :-)
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: better change quickly then
Umbriel Levenque: Looking lovely if I may say so Quilty
Fael Illyar: Yes, lovely :)
Quilty Bookmite: thank you. *blush*
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Anyway, that has swung the gender balance a little.
Umbriel Levenque: :-)
Fael Illyar: Yes, does not feel so male meeting anymore :)
Quilty Bookmite: It's really odd how I wasn't comfortable sitting cross legged though.
Umbriel Levenque: Ah
Fael Illyar: That's common :)
Fael Illyar: you act the way you look like :)
Quilty Bookmite: By the way Sam, you can click on the cushion to change your pose.
Samuel Krams: Ok, I'll try
Umbriel Levenque: We have a certain image of each gender how it should act.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. So it's more than just a text conversation. :-)
Samuel Krams: maybe now it's better :-)
Vertigo Ethaniel: ok, im useless, no idea how to take a snapshot and send it
Fael Illyar: Of course. There's a reason things go so smoothly here :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: its asking me for emails *shrug*
Quilty Bookmite: I think you can store it in different places.
Umbriel Levenque: Vertigo, select save to hard drive
Vertigo Ethaniel: mm it saves a large bmp file
Umbriel Levenque: Thanks you all. Must go now. Good day/night.
Umbriel Levenque: Metta
Umbriel Levenque accepted your inventory offer.
Fael Illyar accepted your inventory offer.
Samuel Krams: bye Umbriel
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight Umbriel.
Fael Illyar: See you later Umbriel :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: good to meet you umb
Fael Illyar: Good night :)
Umbriel Levenque: Same here Vertigo
Samuel Krams accepted your inventory offer.
Samuel Krams: nice photo Quilty
Samuel Krams: ty
Quilty Bookmite: It's getting late for me. A pleasure to meet you Sam.
Quilty Bookmite: But I must go to bed.
Samuel Krams: the same Quilty
Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, ill be heading to work soon
Quilty Bookmite: Hope to see you again.
Samuel Krams: It's too late for me too
Quilty Bookmite: And a pleasure as always Vertigo and Fael.
Vertigo Ethaniel: come back soon sam, meet some of the others, we dont bite :P
Samuel Krams: :-) Ty
Quilty Bookmite: We're a bit odd though. :-)
Samuel Krams: I'll come again
Fael Illyar: Yes, see you later Verigo, Quilty :)
Vertigo Ethaniel: no more odd than some other SL'ers :P
Fael Illyar: Hope to see you here again, Sam :)
Samuel Krams: bye everybody
Samuel Krams: ty, Fael
Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste, fael
Vertigo Ethaniel: namaste, sam

I hve decided to continue with the experiment for a little while so if you see me as a female AV don't be surprised.