2008.09.21 19:00 - Where shall I take them?

Rowan Masala was the guardian for this meeting. The comments below are hers.

Afterwards Adams Rubble, who crashed during the session, edited out the "real life" name

My friend Jimmy, new to PaB, and I arrived together, followed shortly by several others...

Rowan Masala: Welcome, Adams
Rowan Masala: Hi Steven
Adams Rubble: Hello Rowan, Steve and J1mmy
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Adams, Rowan, J1mmy
J1mmy Weiland: hello everyone
Adams Rubble: I don't think I have met you J1mmy
Rowan Masala: Jimmy is new tonight
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you
Rowan Masala: he's a friend of mine and Steven's
Adams Rubble: Ah
Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu. Good to see you :)
Rowan Masala: greetings, Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Avastu Maruti: friends
Adams Rubble: I have a question I would like to ask Avastu
stevenaia Michinaga: hello avastu, it's been a while
Avastu Maruti: are you sure about that, my friend?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I have spent a long time finding the person who was there when i was born and will be there when I die
Adams Rubble: Now Nisargadatta and others say that birth and death are an illusion
Adams Rubble: How do those two things go together?
Avastu Maruti: who is it that was born and will die? How do you know this existence?
Avastu Maruti: that knowing is beyond
Adams Rubble: S is it the knowing that is the illusion?
Avastu Maruti: illusion points to something that appears to be, yet isn't what it seems
Avastu Maruti: the "***" is the illusion
Avastu Maruti: something knows that - THAT which knows the coming and going of *** is what you are
Rowan Masala: ***?
J1mmy Weiland: yes.. .what does the term refer to?
Adams Rubble: Adams is an illusion Rowan
Rowan Masala: ah, ok

Rowan Masala: well, it looks like this is the group for tonight. welcome, all
Rowan Masala: would you like to continue the birth/death discussion, and open it to the group? if not, I have another topic in mind
Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene
Rowan Masala: welcome Adelene
Adelene Dawner: Hi all, Sorry I'm late - lost track of the time.
Rowan Masala: np at all
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Adelene

Rowan Masala: So, Jimmy, this is a group that meets 28 times a week
Rowan Masala: every 6 hours
Rowan Masala: to discuss Being and meditation and anything else that comes up
J1mmy Weiland: wow... almost like one of the five pillars of faith in Islam
J1mmy Weiland: praying 5 times a day
Rowan Masala: the discussion leaders in each slot are called "guardians", and I am tonight's guardian
Rowan Masala: yes, although this group is not religiously affiliated
Rowan Masala: what I was thinking about today, and wondering if you all might like to discuss, what happens with the body during meditation
Rowan Masala: and how being in SL during the meditation affects that
J1mmy Weiland: in meditation, we shut down visual stimulii, do we not?
Rowan Masala: does everyone here close their eyes during the meditation?
Adelene Dawner: not always, here
Adams Rubble: same here
stevenaia Michinaga: I usually do as it intensifies what I am seeing
Rowan Masala: I find that I have to, or I'm too distracted
stevenaia Michinaga: although I once was doing visulaization while driving and I kept my eyes open and used my mind to see
stevenaia Michinaga: sort of like multichannel seeing
Rowan Masala: but the reason I was thinking about this was that Steven said that he sort of leaves his body during his meditations, whereas I tend to come more fully into my body then, instead, as I've mentioned, being in my screen and keyboard and mind
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Rowan Masala: Everyone, let's take 9 seconds or so now
Rowan Masala: thank you
Rowan Masala: so multichannel seeing, Steven?
Rowan Masala smiles
stevenaia Michinaga: kept me on the road and into my design problem at hand
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: what about the rest of you--is your experience one of leaving the body behind during meditation?
Adelene Dawner: Generally no - it depends on what I focus on, and I usually focus on sensory things that require body awareness.
J1mmy Weiland: i think you can choose to leave the body, or stay in it... its a question of ..technique?
Adelene Dawner grins at Jim
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: I think I have yet to learn enough technique to allow me a choice
J1mmy Weiland: what steve said about driving reminds me of one time i witnessed a crash on a freeway
stevenaia Michinaga: and you know this driver was doing thing?
J1mmy Weiland: nobody was hurt, fortunately......
J1mmy Weiland: but i was driving at 70 mph and had the music in my car very, very loud
J1mmy Weiland: i can only feel vibrations
Rowan Masala nods
J1mmy Weiland: then a car suddenly swerved and spun out of control and hit the wall and stopped in the middle
J1mmy Weiland: right in front of me
Rowan Masala: how terrifying!
J1mmy Weiland: lucikly i was alert enough to slow down
J1mmy Weiland: i saw tnbough that the driver and passnger was not hurt, and drove carefully around
J1mmy Weiland: then i realized time had slowed down to crawl and everything was aboslutely silent
J1mmy Weiland: because at that moment, i suddenly heard the loud pounding music again
J1mmy Weiland: that i had on all this time
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: fascinating when that happens
Rowan Masala: I have the same sort of memory of the time my car rolled over 1-1/4 times
Rowan Masala: it's like it happened in slo mo, totally quiet
Rowan Masala: and one time I fell down the steps--I was watching myself do it in slow motion
Rowan Masala: and it seemed that there was time for me to stop and think, what part of myself should I land on?, and adjust my body accordingly
stevenaia Michinaga: i did that once too, just once 1/2 roll on the roof, I looked up at the floor thinking, it's never been that clean, and no scrach on me
J1mmy Weiland: so meditation is an attempt to harness what our bodies are already capable of.
Rowan Masala: hmm
stevenaia Michinaga: good point
Rowan Masala smiles, pensively
Rowan Masala: does Islam have a meditative component outside of prayer, Jimmy?
Rowan Masala: or is your experience with this more from your Shamanic trances?

Rowan Masala: hello Bob
Rowan Masala: would you like to come down and join us?
b0b27 Hellershanks: nope
Rowan Masala: o...k...
J1mmy Weiland: i know very little of islam at this point.... i'd have to say i know more of the shamanistic side. :)
Adelene Dawner: Vampire roleplayer. :P
Rowan Masala: Bob was on the roof, for those of you who didn't see him
Rowan Masala nods
stevenaia Michinaga: shamanistic side of islam?
J1mmy Weiland: heh. no, i meant the shamanistic side of .. erm ... mystical experences
stevenaia Michinaga: awww, ok
J1mmy Weiland: i know of sufism. which would be the "mystical wing" of islam, but have not studied it
Rowan Masala: there's the chime. everyone please take 9 seconds
Rowan Masala: thank you
Avastu Maruti: where shall I take them?
Rowan Masala: lol
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Rowan Masala: wherever you like, Avastu, or you could let them take you instead :)
Avastu Maruti: there is nothing to take, my friend
J1mmy Weiland: can you enlighten me... why 9 seconds?
Rowan Masala: Pema, the man who started the group, had this idea that we could take 1% of our time for meditation
Adelene Dawner: Arbitrary math ... joke... thing. 9 seconds is 1% of 15 minutes.
Rowan Masala laughs
J1mmy Weiland: i see, 9 seconds every 15 minutes :)
Rowan Masala: I struggled with it for some time, and still do a little--thinking longer time periods less often would be more effective for me
J1mmy Weiland: see, it takes me that long to even start thinking about meditation
Rowan Masala nods
stevenaia Michinaga: http://playasbeing.wik.is/Informatio..._in_a_Nutshell
Adelene Dawner: I think part of the idea is that if you do it so often, you'll never completely *stop* thinking about meditation.
J1mmy Weiland: thanks, steve, i will be sure to review that
stevenaia Michinaga: the short version
Rowan Masala: that's a good point, Adelene
Rowan Masala: I hadn't really thought of it in that way
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: I see it as a tool that gets sharpened with use
Rowan Masala: there's no mandate, of course, that we do it that way
Rowan Masala: I think Pema just wanted to see what would happen
J1mmy Weiland: where is he, by the way?
Rowan Masala: I have no idea--he doesn't come to all of the meetings
Rowan Masala: hi Corvi!!
Rowan Masala: welcome!
Rowan Masala: Jimmy, this is Corvi. Corvi--my friend Jimmy, who is joining us for the first time tonight
J1mmy Weiland: hello, corvi :0
J1mmy Weiland: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hello all! Hello Jimmy..
J1mmy Weiland: this is a challenge... to snap into meditation at will and hold it there for 9 seconds and then let go
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: for me, it's less like traditional meditation and simply more of a pause
stevenaia Michinaga: the intent is to do it at the 1/4 hour, 9 seconds is 1% of the time, what Pema equates to a 1% tax on your time to meditate
Rowan Masala: Pema's an astrophysicist at Princeton, if that helps explain his choice of the math at all :)
stevenaia Michinaga: with that you will "see", perhaps not better but certainly more often
J1mmy Weiland: "tax".... do you really have to use that word?
Rowan Masala: LOL
stevenaia Michinaga: not my term
Rowan Masala: well, it's a lot less than a tithe
J1mmy Weiland: a tip?
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: I like that
stevenaia Michinaga: someting universal about tax
Rowan Masala: but not if it has negative connotations for some
Rowan Masala: think of it in whatever terms you like, Jimmy
J1mmy Weiland: indeed
Rowan Masala: an offering, a snack, a pause, a tip
J1mmy Weiland: being an IT guy, i think i'll call it... downtime
Rowan Masala smiles and nods
stevenaia Michinaga: or uptime
Rowan Masala: system maintenace, perhaps
J1mmy Weiland: i am ready to jump into the the 9 seconds this time
Avastu Maruti: rebooting consciousness?
Corvuscorva Nightfire snorts...
J1mmy Weiland: rebooting every 15 min. thats about right for Microsoft
Rowan Masala: speaking of which
Rowan Masala: there's the chime
Rowan Masala: a reboot, or whatever you want to call it, please
Rowan Masala: thank you
Adelene Dawner: Joyous. ^.^
Rowan Masala: yes, Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: Yes. :D
Rowan Masala smiles
J1mmy Weiland: i was chortling a bit this time, but i think i managed to get into my 9 seconds
Rowan Masala: I don't think I've heard you use that term before, Adelene :)
Rowan Masala: and what was it like for you, Jimmy?
J1mmy Weiland: actually, it was like a bit of recognition
Adelene Dawner: It's not one I use lightly. Only when it's true.
Rowan Masala: really glad to hear you use it then, Adelene
Rowan Masala: what sort of recognition, Jimmy?
J1mmy Weiland: hmm of the repeating nature of the brief mediation
J1mmy Weiland: its like you're skipping over the last 15 minutes to the last meditation
Rowan Masala looks at Jimmy and smiles softly
J1mmy Weiland: and recreating that state of being
J1mmy Weiland: its very interesting. :)
Rowan Masala: Corvi, how are you and Crow tonight?
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: uh...better.
Rowan Masala grins
Rowan Masala: well, better is something
Rowan Masala: bad day?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmm...a struggly kind of week.
Rowan Masala: good word, struggly
J1mmy Weiland: i hate those!
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods. "it isn't a pleasant thing..but I hope it will be useful."
Rowan Masala: ah, one of those weeks
Rowan Masala: do you have any particular practices that help you get through struggly times?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and some parts were very fun..puzzles to put together.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: lots and lots...and added 9 seconds to the pile this time.
Rowan Masala: and what did that do to the pile?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: made it all work a bit better, I think...made the struggly parts easier, the fun parts funner, and the whole struggle a bit more productive...at least I hope that's the upshot.
Rowan Masala: wow
Corvuscorva Nightfire: greased the wheels.
Rowan Masala: ah, wheels--there's an idea. I think I'm still working with square blocks
Rowan Masala: lol
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well...probably me too.
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: we seem to have wound down right as the hour approached
Rowan Masala: let's have a final pause, reboot, tip, tax, grease for wheel thing
Adelene Dawner blinks. An hour already?
J1mmy Weiland: :)
Rowan Masala nods
Rowan Masala: thank you all
J1mmy Weiland: thank you, rowan
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Avastu Maruti: friends
Rowan Masala: be well, Avastu
Adelene Dawner: Good night, Avastu. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: night Rowan, and you, Avastu, were the funniest I've seen
stevenaia Michinaga: poof, he's gone
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Goodbye.
Rowan Masala: perhaps he found somewhere to take his 9 seconds after all
J1mmy Weiland: good to meet you again, steve
Rowan Masala: goodnight, Corvi
stevenaia Michinaga: night
Rowan Masala: good to see you
Rowan Masala: goodnight Jimmy, Steve, Adelene
Adelene Dawner: 'night all :)
J1mmy Weiland: i can't decide which bird i am more into, adelene's parrot or corvu's crow
Rowan Masala smiles
Rowan Masala: just be glad I don't have my drakelet with me
J1mmy Weiland: heheh
Rowan Masala: he'd insist on being your choice
Rowan Masala: goodnight!
J1mmy Weiland: hm mmm
J1mmy Weiland: good night