2008.09.25 13:00 - Indistinguishable from reality

The guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are Storm's.

Adams Dubrovna: Hello Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Adams!
Storm Nordwind is recovering from lag
Adams Dubrovna: Ah
Adams Dubrovna: It took me a bit to rezz in
Storm Nordwind: Doing so many things in so many places, I was going to relog but gen wanted a last minute favour!
Adams Dubrovna: Ah
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... stuff on the table
Adams Dubrovna: Yes, it is starting to get cluttered :)
Storm Nordwind: Not much there to my taste really - except the tea!
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Adams Dubrovna: The cone-like things are microphones by Adelene
Storm Nordwind: Ah I see
Adams Dubrovna: The book was left by Adelene as well
Storm Nordwind: I noticed
Adams Dubrovna: Dioscocrdes or something like that
Storm Nordwind: Yes. I knew someone many years ago into that.
Adams Dubrovna: Ah. I know nothing about it

Now we were settling, we started to talk of interesting things.

Adams Dubrovna: I expected to have things to say today but all of the sudden my mind has quieted down
Storm Nordwind: I have that effect on people in RL too I'm told!
Adams Dubrovna: Haha. No it's not you :)
Storm Nordwind: In RL apparently it is... I used to walk towards a shop in the centre of the town I lived in and the shop owner always knew I was there...
Storm Nordwind: Because they held their life together by incessant trivial thought...
Storm Nordwind: and they couldn't do that with me around!
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Storm Nordwind: Has there been a resolution to your thoughts, or are they fermenting gently in the background?
Adams Dubrovna: I think I need to do some review :)
Adams Dubrovna: Maybe summarize for myself
Adams Dubrovna: I am refocusing on Being
Storm Nordwind: I see. Perhaps there is no rush :)
Adams Dubrovna gets an idea
Adams Dubrovna: What does Being mean to you, Storm?
Storm Nordwind considers whether to play a dumb Zen trick...

I was reminded of the following story. Hyakujo was a Zen master who wanted to found a new monastery. He called all his monks together so that he could choose the most able to send for the task. He told them that whosoever gave the best answer to his question would be the one he sent. Then he placed a large jar full of water in front of the crowd of seated monks and said, "Who can say what this is without saying its name?" The chief monk said, "No one could call it a wooden block." Then the cooking monk got up, approached the jar and tipped it over with his foot so that the water spilled everywhere before he walked away. "The chief monk loses," said Hyakujo.

Storm Nordwind thinks better of it!
Adams Dubrovna watches for tricks
Storm Nordwind: Being for me is all that is. All there is.
Storm Nordwind: But I sense you are after more than that
Adams Dubrovna: In some ways, it is not fair because I am asking about everything
Adams Dubrovna: I think I want it to be spiritual for me and I know you have a spiritual connection with Being
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: Hmmm...
Storm Nordwind: "Spiritual" is an interesting word. What do you really mean by it?
Adams Dubrovna: Hmm
Adams Dubrovna: I know it when I feel it :)
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Adams Dubrovna: My two visions were spiritual
Storm Nordwind wonders whether the trick would have appropriate after all
Adams Dubrovna: I feel a connection when I listen to certain music
Storm Nordwind remembers
Adams Dubrovna was thinking we had some of this conversation before
Storm Nordwind: I am reminded of the well-known quote by Arthur C. Clarke
Adams Dubrovna: yes?
Storm Nordwind: He wrote in 1961, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"
Storm Nordwind: The point of that in my thoughts is that I'm thinking of an analogy
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps something like this...
Storm Nordwind: "Any sufficiently advanced religion is indistinguishable from reality"

I wasn't satisfied with that. It wasn't what I meant. I changed the words.

Storm Nordwind: Or perhaps a variant...
Storm Nordwind: "Any sufficiently advanced spirituality is indistinguishable from reality"

That's what I wanted to say.

Storm Nordwind: So for me, Being is all that there is that's real. Nothing inside or outside it
Storm Nordwind: If that is spiritual, so be it
Storm Nordwind: But I know also how it makes me feel
Adams Dubrovna: :)

I thought back to my classes the previous weekend where my teacher had quoted from a book written by our Spiritual Guide.

Storm Nordwind: There's another quote I have here next to me somewhere...
Storm Nordwind: This is a little older
Storm Nordwind: "Our manner of dedicating should unite method and wisdom"
Storm Nordwind: This my spiritual guide quoting from Buddha
Storm Nordwind: Wisdom is the realisation of Being - of emptiness perhaps and what is real
Storm Nordwind: Method is what we accept as real in our day to day lives by convention
Storm Nordwind: The union is to live and feel in this conventional world while still knowing reality, tasting it and being it
Adams Dubrovna: nice thought
Adams Dubrovna is thinking that is some ways spirituality is a form of APAPB
Adams Dubrovna: in some ways

There was something here that might be making an ass of u and me! :)

Storm Nordwind: "What is spirituality?" is a question that many people leave unanswered because it's assumed to be self-evident
Storm Nordwind: But it rarely is.
Storm Nordwind: In contrast to the experience of Being which really is self-evident.

I was thinking back to my own direct experiences of "Seeing as Being" that I described in my July blog http://stormerne.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html

Storm Nordwind: As a mahatma I knew once said to me...
Storm Nordwind: "When the sun rises, you don't go looking for it with a torch!"
Adams Dubrovna: :)
Storm Nordwind: Would you like to develop your APAPB thought?
Adams Dubrovna: It struck me from your description of Being. We both know it when we feel it and it is in reaction to the appearance of Being. In that way spirituality is our appreciation of it
Storm Nordwind considers

An image formed in my mind. But it turned out that, as I described it, it was just the prelude to a powerful realisation.

Storm Nordwind: I think perhaps there is a beautiful path to Being
Storm Nordwind: The path is lined with trees and scented bushes...
Storm Nordwind: there are pleasant walks shooting off on either side
Storm Nordwind: and cool streams
Storm Nordwind: beautiful sounds
Storm Nordwind: and an altogether inspiring place...
Storm Nordwind: and the further we get along that path the more we feel Being, or seem too
Storm Nordwind: But I wonder now
Storm Nordwind: A thought has just struck me quite hard as I speak
Storm Nordwind: ...

Storm Nordwind: well, I have suddenly realised something very profound - at least for me
Storm Nordwind: and I'll tell you - but I can't prove it!
Storm Nordwind: And I suspect you may not even accept it, but here goes...
Storm Nordwind: What we experience as the feeling of spirituality...
Storm Nordwind: is not, as we assume, the experience of Being...
Storm Nordwind: It is, instead, the experience of the presence of a being (small 'b')...
Storm Nordwind: perhaps a being who is enlightened...
Storm Nordwind: perhaps one that is absorbed deeply into the awareness of being...
Storm Nordwind: but not the experience of Being itself
Storm Nordwind: Which is not to belittle it
Storm Nordwind: I think we need those experiences

This was a revelation to me. Experiences now seemed to correlate...

Adams Dubrovna: There is a certain awe with spirituality
Adams Dubrovna: Unfortunately I need to go very soon; it is a shame to end this discussion
Storm Nordwind: Yes, but thinking back, that awe is what I have when I am in the presence of a spiritual being, not the experience of Being itself
Adams Dubrovna: I will think about that. The being might be a composer
Storm Nordwind: Possibly!
Adams Dubrovna: My visions were inspired by PaB but they happened when I was very alone
Storm Nordwind nods
Adams Dubrovna: You have given me some things to think about; this was a great conversation
Storm Nordwind: You are an inspiring person to converse with! :)
Adams Dubrovna: That is nice of you to say. You are too :)
Storm Nordwind: Take care my friend. And ponder deeply, but well, and in the safe knowledge that all is known and all is safe!
Adams Dubrovna: Thank you. I feel safe today. bye :)
Storm Nordwind: Bye!