2009.03.01 07:00 - Freedom from Fears

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    Adams Rubble was guardian and is responsible for the comments

    I had trouble logging in and arrived a few minutes late and Adelene was covering for me. Fael also was there waiting.When Wol sent me the link to the whole log, I realized nothing was missing on this end.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Ade :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
    Adelene Dawner: Hiay Fa. ^.^
    Adelene Dawner: Hey Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: Thanks Ade :) I came in through Rieul
    Adams Rubble: Buyeo must be closed down
    Adams Rubble: Hell evertone
    Adams Rubble: eveeyone
    Adams Rubble: hello :)
    PaB Listener Master: Adams Rubble has just claimed the session and will receive link to the log after the session is done. This replaces any previous claim.

    Arisia arrived and eventually requested we call him Ari

    Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would like to discuss?
    Adams Rubble: wb Arisia
    Fael Illyar: Hi Arisia :)
    Arisia Vita: Hi all

    Pema and Scathach came next

    Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Scath :)
    Arisia Vita: Hope you all are well and happy
    Adams Rubble: Hello Scath :)
    Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adams, Fael:)
    Adams Rubble: Yes thank you Arisia
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Adelene, Pema, Arisia

    I asked again for a topic and made a typo

    Adams Rubble: Does anyone have anything they would loike to share?
    Pema Pera: (is that a Brooklyn accent?)
    Pema Pera still confused about American accents . . . .
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Adams Rubble: no just bad typing
    Pema Pera: psstttt
    Squee: If God has created the world, his primary worry was not to make its understanding easy for us.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adelene Dawner giggles at Squee ^.^
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    So without too much ado I threw out some stuff

    Adams Rubble: I was ready some old logs yesterday and one of the jokes started me thinking
    Adams Rubble: It was a session between Pema and a newcomer back in April
    Pema Pera: wow, almost a year ago . . . .
    Adams Rubble: The newcomer joked that he was studying Buddhism in RL and so he thought his avatar should be studying Buddhism in SL
    Adams Rubble: Pema joked with about various things our avatars might be
    Adams Rubble: including one of my favorites
    Adams Rubble: "anythingists"
    Pema Pera: (probably sounds better than "nothingists")
    Adams Rubble: I was thinking my avatar has been much more active pursuing Christianity and Buddhism than I ever would have been
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: I am kind of an anythingist often :)
    Pema Pera loistening intently
    I missed that...Pema playing on my earlier typo :) (One of the joys of editing)
    Adams Rubble: I was wondering if anyone else had experiences like that
    Fael Illyar smiles.
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Adams Rubble: For me separation has helped me see things that it might have taken longer to see

    Scath put it much better than I had

    Scathach Rhiadra: I have fund a certain freedom in SL, and coupled with the diversity of people I've met it is 'liberating', in a way
    Adams Rubble: yes Scath that's a nice way to put it
    Pema Pera: separation in what way, Adams?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Well, maybe Scath put it better
    Scathach Rhiadra: maybe gives 'extra degrees of freedom' as Pema has mentioned before, though in a different context:)
    Adams Rubble: It gave me the freedom to just let my avatar go and become open to all kinds of new ideas
    Adams Rubble: sort of broke down my walls of defense
    Arisia Vita: defense against what?

    I was still fumbling and the others seemed to be wondering what I was talking about

    Adams Rubble: It gave me freedom to explore places that I never would have gone to in real life
    Adams Rubble thinking about Arisia's question
    Arisia Vita: no hurry, take your time
    Adams Rubble: You are all working on my choice of words, thank you :)

    I tried fear and that seemed to get things rolling

    Adams Rubble: Maybe it was fear to just open up
    Adams Rubble: fear of what you may ask?
    Arisia Vita: that I understand, perhaps better than most
    Adams Rubble: It comes back to Scath's "freedom"
    Pema Pera: in what way, Arisia?
    Adams Rubble: freedom to explore
    Adams Rubble: to be
    Arisia Vita: to help
    Adams Rubble: sorry to interrupt Pema's question
    Pema Pera: oh no, Adams, not to worry :)
    Pema Pera: fear for opening up is such an interesting topic
    Arisia Vita: is it common?
    Pema Pera: ubiquitous :)
    Arisia Vita: but to varying degress?
    Arisia Vita: degrees
    Arisia Vita: why is it so common?
    Arisia Vita: what is its source?
    Adams Rubble: Some of the source is we worry about what people will think of us
    Arisia Vita: but why do we worry?
    Adams Rubble: Somebody may have said something that makes us hesitant
    Adams Rubble: Our identities can be very protective of themselves

    Fael points to a main source of our fear of exploring

    Fael Illyar: We're used to being attacked for being different. That's very common, especially among children.
    Adams Rubble: oh yes Fael
    Arisia Vita: good point Fael
    Adams Rubble: So we build masks
    Arisia Vita: why is being different a reason to be attacked?
    Fael Illyar: fear of unknown
    Adams Rubble: It makes the attackers feel good?
    Fael Illyar: the response to fear is either to fight or to flee.
    Adams Rubble: yes fael
    Fael Illyar: normal one that is
    Fael Illyar: so, being different gets you both shunned and attacked.
    Arisia Vita: I agree, it just seems such a waste of potential
    Adams Rubble: Here in SL we have the freedom to be different
    Adams Rubble: yes Arisia
    Arisia Vita: please call me Ari, shorter and easier and more friendly to boot :)
    Fael Illyar: Sure, ari :)
    Arisia Vita: thanks
    Adams Rubble: OK Ari :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)

    Universal Bullying

    Pema Pera: yes, it is very interesting to see how society forces a certain degree of sameness . . . probably for good evolutionary reasons
    Adams Rubble: well there were the tribes
    Pema Pera: in some countries more than in others, but I think the children bullying which Fael refered to is probably universal
    Adams Rubble: people banded togther for protection
    Pema Pera: children can be so cruel in that respect
    Adams Rubble nods
    Arisia Vita: and bullies seek out the weak and vulnerable
    Arisia Vita: easy targets
    Adams Rubble: and many of them grow up to be bullying adults
    Arisia Vita: many of them never grow up at all

    Bullying aside, we can drop our fears

    Pema Pera: but perhaps we don't have to worry about the source of our fears . . . When we remember any event where we opened up, in a reasonably careful way at least, we are so fearful before we open up, and so relieved and happy after we do it . . . . and yet, the next time we repeat the problem, being full of fear again; we tend to forget our lessons learned . . .
    Pema Pera: if we can just remember to drop our fear . . .
    Pema Pera: . . .to drop the addiction to fear, the habitual fear . . .
    Fael Illyar: not just drop the fear, drop the assumptions that lead to the fear.
    Adams Rubble: and getting back to our avatars, it is a way to drop some of our fears without even knowing we are doing it
    Adams Rubble: then we just have to learn from that
    Fael Illyar: Yes, we have different sets of assumptions we apply to SL, so the fears here are also different
    Pema Pera: how do you drop assumptions, Fael?
    Adams Rubble: I expect the longer we stay the more likely we are to develop them in SL
    Adams Rubble: but we start fresh and clean
    Fael Illyar: Pema, you're asking me something that's kind of like "how do you move your hand?"
    Arisia Vita: you first have to want to
    Arisia Vita: either move your hand or drop assumptions
    Adams Rubble nods
    Fael Illyar: Yes, wanting to is important


    Adams Rubble: we have to learn what our "assumptions" are before we can drop them
    Arisia Vita: often they are clearer to others than ourselves
    Pema Pera: if I know where my hand is, and I know how to move it, sure, than I can move it -- but to drop assumptions, it may be difficult if we don't know them
    Adams Rubble nods
    Adams Rubble: to both Ari and Pema
    Pema Pera: yes, thinking alike here, Adams
    Pema Pera: so knowing -> wanting to -> dropping
    Fael Illyar: well, wanting to can come before knowing but won't be too helpful without a target :)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Fael Illyar: actually... wanting to know -> knowing -> wanting to drop it -> dropping
    Scathach Rhiadra nods

    Just drop it all

    Pema Pera: so a central question is: to what extent to we have to analyze, to go back to the source? And to what extent may it be possible to drop without analyzing all assumptions we may have?
    Pema Pera: *do we have
    Arisia Vita: it can feel so much safer in our shells though...
    Fael Illyar: Arisia, that's until you drop the assumptions that you are not safe outside it :)
    Adams Rubble thinking about Pema's question
    Fael Illyar: Oops, Ari.
    Arisia Vita: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: or a combinatin of both Pema?
    Pema Pera: yes, certainly
    Adams Rubble: It seems to me at times I have been able to just drop everything at once but I am still not sure enough to know how
    Adams Rubble: yes Scath
    Fael Illyar: Yes, that happened to me too a few times, dropping everything at once.
    Fael Illyar: It gave me a lot of clues on how to get there more permanently.
    Adams Rubble: It just sorts of happens...is that the wu wei?
    Arisia Vita: to me, the power of a simple outstretched hand can be awesome
    Fael Illyar: but, even the assumptions are not there all the time. They come in response to triggers.
    Fael Illyar: they're not always present
    Adams Rubble nods to Fael
    Pema Pera: it "just happens" like a jazz musician "just plays" . . . but a bit of training helps :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Fael Illyar: so, until you learn not to make them again, you'll regain them eventually if you just drop everything without knowing what it was.
    Pema Pera: yes, Ari, single moments and gestures can make all the difference
    Pema Pera: but some kind of training is essential -- for a jazz musician, or for someone trying to get over fear of heights, say; that person *knows* that he has the wrong assumption about hight, yet it may not be so easy to drop that

    buddha stepped in

    Fael Illyar: Hi Buddha :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Buddha
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello buddha
    Arisia Vita: welcome Buddha
    buddha Nirvana: Hi everyone @))
    Adams Rubble: Hello buddha
    Fael Illyar: yes, it's not just dropping the assumption. It's learning to not make it again.
    Fael Illyar: if you drop it and then make it again the next second, that doesn't change much
    Adams Rubble: learning to see them too
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: and dropping yourself is far more effective than trying to drop all assumptions one by one -- a great shortcut :)
    Pema Pera: that's the core idea of "Play as Being"
    Adams Rubble nods
    Pema Pera: playing as if everything has been dropped already
    Fael Illyar: Yes, it's a shortcut but not a perfect one :)
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Pema Pera: and exploring how that might feel
    Fael Illyar: it does give you clues though
    Pema Pera: no path is perfect, indeed
    Pema Pera: including this path of exploring how it might feel to be perfect :)
    Fael Illyar: it works because a lot of the assumptions have no base without a self.
    Adams Rubble remembers Pema was responsible for showing the way twice to dropping everything
    Pema Pera: twice?
    Adams Rubble: the training :)
    MystiTool HUD 1.3.0-freebie: Entering chat range: Lunabel Core (19m)
    Adams Rubble: yes once in July and once in December
    Adams Rubble: Hello Lunabel
    Fael Illyar: I'd think Pema just pointed the direction :) You found it yourself.
    Pema Pera: Hi Lunabel, come join us if you like
    Fael Illyar: Hi Lunabel :)
    Adams Rubble: /nme not so sure about Fael's observation
    Pema Pera: from the point of view of Being (which is no point :) there are neither self nor other as real entities, Being is "doing" everything in a non-doing way
    Pema Pera: but this gets very hard to talk about
    Pema Pera: the more we learn not-doing, the more it becomes clear, in practice
    Fael Illyar: observation?
    Adams Rubble: statement :)
    Fael Illyar: opinion :)
    Arisia Vita: why is it hard to talk about Pema?
    Pema Pera: we can learn more and more to "line up with the Universe" so to speak
    Pema Pera: but that does not lend itself to definitions and formulations
    Pema Pera: such as are used while speaking with words
    Scathach Rhiadra: the morre we practice te clearer it becomes
    Pema Pera: you can point, as Fael said, and try out, and share the trying
    Pema Pera: yes
    Pema Pera: if you really really try, you recognize others really really trying, and then communication can flow, even with imperfect words
    Adams Rubble: yes, it so often happens here it seems
    Pema Pera: yes, and having someone not joining that dance, as happened last month, made the difference so very clear
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Adams Rubble nods sadly
    Arisia Vita: I missed that, unfortunately, perhaps I could have helped...

    Chiaiu, who I had never met, joins us

    Arisia Vita: welcome Chiaiu
    Adams Rubble: Hello Chiaiu
    Fael Illyar: Hello Chiaiu :)
    Pema Pera: Hi Chiaiu, good to see you again!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Chiaiu
    Adams Rubble: Ah, so no need for introduction?
    Pema Pera: nope
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: hello everybody
    Adams Rubble: nice to meet you Chiaiu
    buddha Nirvana: Hi Chiaiu:)
    Pema Pera: we were talking about the limitations of using words, Chiaiu
    Chiaiu Chiung: ok
    Pema Pera: and how we recognize each other's attempts to search for truth
    Pema Pera: even if we can't quite put our finger on it in precise definitions
    Chiaiu Chiung: ok
    Adams Rubble loves Chiaiu's 1st life response on her profile

    Chiaiu's profile more or less said she had one (1st life) and she liked it; buddha leaves

    buddha Nirvana: Excuse me all _/\_
    Adams Rubble: bye buddha :)
    Pema Pera: bye Bud!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye buddha
    buddha Nirvana: Bye for now:)
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy Buddha
    Pema Pera: also Chiaiu's first page fits in well with Play as Being:
    Pema Pera: I am here to find what I have not been looking for, and to let go what I found
    Chiaiu Chiung: :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Pema Pera: we were just talking about dropping things, letting go, Ciaiu
    Chiaiu Chiung: sounded good to me, not really sure where it was coming from...
    Pema Pera: it's a wonderful quote, whatever it origins :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    PaB Listener Master: Adams Rubble has just claimed the session and will receive link to the log after the session is done. This replaces any previous claim.

    Just to be sure I had claimed the log again, this time wearing my group tag. Alas, I'm still waiting for it

    Chiaiu Chiung: however, it is so easy to write it into the profile, not always easy to live it
    Pema Pera: From now on, Google will maintain that the source of the quote is the PaB wiki :)
    Pema Pera: yes, indeed, Chiaiu!
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: how do you try to live it, if I may ask, how do you remind yourself?
    Chiaiu Chiung: hmmm. can't explain with words .... ;)
    Chiaiu Chiung: I do nothing special to remind me
    Chiaiu Chiung: I know it is important which already helps ... sometimes
    Arisia Vita: words are often inadequate to convey meaning
    Pema Pera: yes, respecting it helps already . . . and then a kind of training/reminders make it work better
    Chiaiu Chiung: i also felt that reading books reminds you of these things
    Chiaiu Chiung: there are a few which i already know
    Chiaiu Chiung: but just reading a few pages remind me of what is important
    Pema Pera: meditating or praying or other activity, anything that you can do at least once a day, including reading books, yes, indeed!
    Pema Pera: frequency is important --- once a week is not enough it seems
    Pema Pera: and once or twice a day may or may not be
    Chiaiu Chiung: I tried with different meditations but never get it running for too long
    Pema Pera: we here are going a bit overboard, with our once every quarter of an hour approach
    Pema Pera: trading duration for frequency
    Pema Pera: only a few minutes a day, but spread out over many many times
    Chiaiu Chiung: then i became aware that every day life can also be meditation
    Pema Pera: very much so!
    Chiaiu Chiung: so i try to do things with awareness
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Chiaiu Chiung: can't sy to myself that I don't find time for it this way ;)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: have you gotten a chance to look at our web site http://playasbeing.wik.is/ and did you perhaps try out the 9-sec explorations?
    Chiaiu Chiung: i heard about it when i was here the first time
    Chiaiu Chiung: it is surely a way that makes sense
    Pema Pera: when you feel like trying it out a bit, I'd love to hear how it works for you in practice
    Pema Pera: in due time :)
    Pema Pera: (talking about time, I have to get going . . . )

    Pema, Ari and Scath all depart

    Fael Illyar: See you later Pema :)
    Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
    Arisia Vita: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: good seeing you all -- till next time!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye
    Arisia Vita: I must go too,sadly
    Adams Rubble: bye Ari :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Ari
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye
    Arisia Vita: be well and happy...
    Chiaiu Chiung: Arisia
    Adams Rubble: you 2
    Scathach Rhiadra: and I must go too, see you all again soon, namasté
    Adams Rubble: bye Scath :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye
    Adams Rubble: namaste
    Fael Illyar: See you later Scath :)
    Adams Rubble: I am a bit tired from the session; it covered quite a bit of ground :)
    Fael Illyar: Ah, you're leaving too?
    Fael Illyar: See you later Adams :)
    Adams Rubble: No I am guardian and will stay until the end :)
    Adams Rubble: just explaining my sudden quietness
    Fael Illyar: Ah :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: what is the average duration of the sessions?
    Adams Rubble: They usually last an hour but sometimes we can go on quite long
    Chiaiu Chiung: ok
    Adams Rubble: I think there was one session that went all the way to the next one
    Adams Rubble: 6 hours
    Chiaiu Chiung: wow
    Adams Rubble: but people wanted to set a record that couldn;t be broken :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: this is just my second time here ... but i am sure i will come more often
    Adams Rubble: That is wonderful
    Fael Illyar: you sure it can't be broken? :)
    Adams Rubble: only tied Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: well, ok, for a session length no.
    Adams Rubble: unless you count the two as one
    Chiaiu Chiung: do you all know each other or is there much fluctuation?

    I crashed here and missed that part of the log. Wol sent me the link and so here is the missing part:

    Fael Illyar: but for how long you've been in a meeting it can :P
    Fael Illyar: You get to know people when you participate :)
    Fael Illyar: oh, Adams crashed I guess.
    Chiaiu Chiung: seems so.. :(
    Chiaiu Chiung: I think I will aslo go ... but I will come back :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: also
    Chiaiu Chiung: it was nice to meet you
    Fael Illyar: Allright, se yo later Chiaiu :)
    Fael Illyar: Nice t meet you too :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: OK, Cu, bye :)
    Fael Illyar: wb Adams :)

     When I came back fael was with a new arrival to SL and Fael and I talked to him a bit about second life whhile another visitor arrived and left

    Fael and I then parted

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