2009.03.10 07:00 - Time goes here

The Guardian for this meeting was Riddle Sideways. The comments are by Riddle Sideways.

Riddle Sideways: good morning
Geo Netizen: Hi Riddle
Geo Netizen: Hi Adams
Riddle Sideways: shall we start small?
Adams Rubble: Hello Riddle, geo, Eliza :)
Riddle Sideways: we can enlarge soon
Eliza Madrigal: Hello everyone :)
Adams Rubble: Small is good :)
Geo Netizen: Hi Eliza
Riddle Sideways: good morning eliza
Riddle Sideways: have we met before?
Riddle Sideways: my memory is poor
Eliza Madrigal: Mornin', and I do not think so
Eliza Madrigal: Nice to meet you
Riddle Sideways: have you been to these sessions before?
Eliza Madrigal: When reading the logs, it is easy to feel as though you've met someone though :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Riddle Sideways: it is still dark here
Riddle Sideways: it gives an added thought toward time slots
Riddle Sideways: and dependence (or lack of) on time
Riddle Sideways: if my schedule can so easily be upset
Riddle Sideways: then maybe I am not so tied to it
Adams Rubble is not sure what Riddle is talking about
Adams Rubble: It is a riddle
Riddle Sideways: oh dear I went rubbling to quickly this morning
Riddle Sideways: was thinking about time, time units, present
Adams Rubble: and darkness?
Geo Netizen: More effected by time change than we may think
Riddle Sideways: went toward schedules/ routines
Riddle Sideways: and my "usual" get up time
Geo Netizen: You are 2% more likely to have a heart attack after time change
Riddle Sideways: is now due to DST) in darkness
Adams Rubble: It is a nuissance getting up in the dark
Eliza Madrigal: After a "time change" i feel as though someone is following me around..like a gap there I have to sync
Riddle Sideways: I did read storms email
Geo Netizen: *affected
Adams Rubble: I thought it was 5%
Riddle Sideways: yes, I read 5%
Geo Netizen: Yes .... I think he had a later study ... 5%
Riddle Sideways: only 1.8% in the fall back
Adams Rubble: I thought of geo this morning as I was putting on my bicycle lights :)
Geo Netizen: It is getting worse :)
Riddle Sideways: and I read Adams' reply
Adams Rubble: So we are agreed about the time change. hehe
Riddle Sideways: yes, can put off heart attack for 3 more weeks
Adams Rubble: hehe
Adams Rubble: or why not do it at all
Riddle Sideways: am getting to that age...
Adams Rubble: let's keep the heart atacks at 95%
Riddle Sideways: ok, procrastination on the heart attack subject
Eliza Madrigal: For someone vulnerable healthwise, it seems like any "change" can affect ...maybe not true but seems that wy...have to stay flexible and open perhaps :)
Adams Rubble: we are just grumbling Eliza :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Am talking myself int it
Eliza Madrigal: *into
Riddle Sideways: grumbling is one of my best things
Eliza Madrigal: hah
Adams Rubble: It does lead nicely into the time thingamajog
Adams Rubble: thingamajig
Geo Netizen: "We are placing these people back into February," Terman said. "We are dealing with a public health issue and the extension of Daylight Saving Time at both ends is extending the period of year in which people are most vulnerable to depression."
Adams Rubble: who is Terman?
Geo Netizen: Can't pin down which one made the quote
Adams Rubble: It is quite a statement
Geo Netizen: Michael Terman, Columbia University Medical Center
Riddle Sideways: don't know Terman, but I like the quote
Geo Netizen: It was just beginning to get light at 6 am ... now I've been plunged back into darkness :(
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: It is dangerous biking to work in the dark
Geo Netizen: And we (US) are out of sync with the rest of the world
Riddle Sideways: also read that DST was done for economic reasons... more daylight time to go shopping
Geo Netizen: and there is evidence that the time change may use more energy
Adams Rubble: I always thought it was agriculture
Geo Netizen: so why ?
Geo Netizen: Gold !
Riddle Sideways: we/US are more depressed now
Geo Netizen: Golf
Geo Netizen: I mean
Adams Rubble: we have alot to be depressed about in US after the last 8 years
Geo Netizen: We know who extended the time too
Adams Rubble: but Spring is coming
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Geo Netizen: Hmmmm .... we are in the middle of a blizzard
Adams Rubble: oh my Geo
Riddle Sideways: the last 8 years go US/us very out-o-sync with the rest of world
Adams Rubble: yes Riddle
Riddle Sideways: *got
Eliza Madrigal: In Florida, there is solittle change in seasons that I tend to welcome anything to break up monotony...though it gets hot very early here now
Adams Rubble: When does Spring get there Geo?
Riddle Sideways: when I first moved to cal. it took some timeto feel the seasons
Geo Netizen: End of May
Adams Rubble: wow
Eliza Madrigal: goodness
Geo Netizen: But then it is summer beginning of June
Geo Netizen: not much of a spring :)
Riddle Sideways: and then winter in oct
Riddle Sideways: sept?
Geo Netizen: Wwe have had snow here every month except July
Adams Rubble: oh my!
Riddle Sideways: you must like it
Geo Netizen: But I do have an unexpected day off of work today
Eliza Madrigal: You said you are in the US geo?
Geo Netizen: Yes .... northern
Eliza Madrigal: yes..hm
Adams Rubble: The time change would have a magnified effect there then
Geo Netizen: Actually just a little south of Winnipeg
Eliza Madrigal: Ah!
Riddle Sideways: the border lands
Geo Netizen: Yes ... end of June and the sun is just setting at 10:30 ... just what I need to help me sleep :(
Adams Rubble: :(
Eliza Madrigal: Grumbling in order then :)
Geo Netizen: Is it obvious I’m a bit grumpy still ... been just two days
Geo Netizen: It will take me almost two weeks to adjust
Eliza Madrigal: I can understand taht
Adams Rubble: Yes, it usually takes me at least a week but for some reason I am not affected by it this year so far
Adams Rubble: I have reached one of those calm periods just at the time changed
Adams Rubble: but I understand what you are feeling Geo
Geo Netizen is a little jealous
Riddle Sideways: all this PaB talk about time and loosening has had that effect
Adams Rubble: yes, the context of timelessness
Riddle Sideways: before we go there
Riddle Sideways: and at the risk of actually adding a quote here
Adams Rubble is often there it seems these days
Riddle Sideways: I ran accross this:
Riddle Sideways: "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light of meaning in the darkness of mere being" - C.G. Jung
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hmmm :)
Riddle Sideways: not sure if the darkness is meant as the DST morning thing
Eliza Madrigal: mere being...quite a thought just in that
Eliza Madrigal: :)))
Geo Netizen chuckles
Riddle Sideways: but I do think the Being should be capitalized
Geo Netizen: Begs the question of how human existence is not mere being though
Adams Rubble: Do we need a purpose?
Eliza Madrigal: Meaning seems to be Being there
Geo Netizen: Even if we ‘need’ one do we get one :)
Riddle Sideways: hmmmmm.... turn on a lamp for appearance
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: If we live in the moment, no need for purpose, we just are
Riddle Sideways: will have to think on that Adams
Eliza Madrigal: Looking for a purpose seems a distraction...though I admit to doing it all the time :)
Eliza Madrigal: tail chasing
Geo Netizen: But even if no purpose we can have an attribute such as ‘beloved’
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely
Adams Rubble is not saying there is no purpose...only addressing our need to llok for one
Adams Rubble: look
Adams Rubble: maybe replace need with desire
Riddle Sideways: there is much in "live in the moment" that suggests "time-less-ness"
Adams Rubble: yes!
Geo Netizen: an 'eternal now'
Adams Rubble: yes!
Geo Netizen: We are suggesting a reality in which time is essential an undefined term
Adams Rubble nods
Geo Netizen: using ‘undefined’ as is done in mathematics
Riddle Sideways: was doing a math problem yesterday...
Riddle Sideways: and saw no time envolved
Riddle Sideways: most sciences have time involved
Riddle Sideways: but not math
Adams Rubble: I thought Geo was defining "undefined" rather than time
Adams Rubble: Geo?
Eliza Madrigal: Sometimes have to work from the end? That is Math and time?
Geo Netizen: I was refering to time by
Geo Netizen: using undefined as is is used in math
Riddle Sideways: ah I thought you might be
Geo Netizen: that is it is more than not knowing the definition
Geo Netizen: is just has no reality
Riddle Sideways: if we undefine the time term
Geo Netizen: *it
Geo Netizen: It would make no sense to refer to the beginning nor the end of this session. We would be present to the entire session as a now.
Adams Rubble: Not sure of all that but I just feel it is not an important question to me
Adams Rubble: yes Geo
Riddle Sideways: yes
Adams Rubble: For me it is a connection
Riddle Sideways: in religions there seems to be both timeless states and history/future
Riddle Sideways: both studied
Geo Netizen: We are certainly experience the temporal aspect of this reality we call RL
Adams Rubble agrees with that
Adams Rubble: and that too :)
Adams Rubble: Aren;t they just on different levels
Adams Rubble: we can simply transcend time
Adams Rubble: the need for time
Adams Rubble: the desire for time
Adams Rubble: then come back to time when we are reayd
Riddle Sideways: they sure seem to be, but hard to describe
Adams Rubble: ready
Geo Netizen: Yet both time and space are quanta here and may be just part of a meta reality in which both time and space are undefined
Geo Netizen: so to transcend may mean to become aware of that meta reality
Geo Netizen: It would seem to fit the descriptions of meditative experiences by some of the great teachers
Eliza Madrigal: In bringing Being what one is "doing"...does seem to stretch time within that activity
Riddle Sideways: it is both the eternal now in this session and that while chatting we have gone through a SL day/night
Adams Rubble: :)
Geo Netizen nods
Adams Rubble: Our avatars experince the time change four times a day
Adams Rubble: but no blizzard
Adams Rubble: unless we want one
Riddle Sideways: being aware of the meta and it's contradictions
Geo Netizen bottom half of his window is blocked by snow
Riddle Sideways: the awareness helps me start toward understanding
Eliza Madrigal: stepping away for a moment...cooking :)
Adams Rubble thinking of Geo's snow
Riddle Sideways: jumping back to previous
Adams Rubble: not ignoring Riddle
Riddle Sideways: in music it is all about time
Riddle Sideways: time signitures
Geo Netizen is thinking about the term contradiction
Riddle Sideways: time passages
Riddle Sideways: but the great pieces become timeless
Adams Rubble didn;t notice contradiction before
Geo Netizen: Yes ... and sequence
Geo Netizen: a C has duration
Geo Netizen: but a CCCG has meaning
Riddle Sideways: the players enter and exit at precise measures
Riddle Sideways: major and minor things happen
Geo Netizen: (i.e. Beginning of Beethoven’s 5th )
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: that beginning is timeless
Adams Rubble: music is beautiful and logical at the same time
Riddle Sideways: sooooo wrapped in exact time
Riddle Sideways: that it is burned into most ofus
Riddle Sideways: we carry that pebble
Riddle Sideways: can listen to it any time
Riddle Sideways: often hurt my fingers pounding those notes on desktop
Geo Netizen smiles
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: sorry, can not type while playing desk-piano
Adams Rubble: hehe
Geo Netizen chuckles
Adams Rubble: The music can help us transcend
Riddle Sideways: that is such a big piece that I have to play air-conductor
Riddle Sideways waves arms
Adams Rubble picturing Riddle conducting
Geo Netizen: Serious music may predate our language abilities
Riddle Sideways: picture Riddle knocking items off desk
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: yes geo
Adams Rubble nods to geo too
Riddle Sideways: comes from the same root
Adams Rubble nods again
Riddle Sideways: there is that point back there
Adams Rubble: it is another form of communication
Riddle Sideways: where the base issues
Riddle Sideways: we know music, sound, language, colors, warmth
Eliza Madrigal: intrinsic to connection....rhythm and movement
Riddle Sideways: by no name
Riddle Sideways: the atomic we form our foundations
Riddle Sideways: and look where we take it
Riddle Sideways: we stand upon those macros
Riddle Sideways: and think of the meta
Geo Netizen listens
Riddle Sideways: oh dear, where did that come from :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Eliza Madrigal: MMM
Riddle Sideways: 30 years ago I started programing operating systems
Riddle Sideways: I was in charge of producing characters
Riddle Sideways: I made pixals/dots into the letter A
Riddle Sideways: then we built more characters
Riddle Sideways: we put that software into libraries
Riddle Sideways: so nobody had to write those routines again
Riddle Sideways: but could use them to build higher forms
Riddle Sideways: eventually we could build SL
Riddle Sideways: and I could stand upon SL and chat of things that matter
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble looks at all the characters
Geo Netizen: Yes ... we encapsulate complexity
Riddle Sideways: yes, we are all characters
Adams Rubble: hehe
Riddle Sideways: yet all same
Adams Rubble: not quite what I was looking th though :)
Adams Rubble: at
Geo Netizen: That encapsulation is one of the powerful properties of language
Riddle Sideways: I know, just like to twist it
Adams Rubble: It was so important for people to say, yes we will make this part available so no on ehas to do it again
Adams Rubble: Surprisingly it takes some foredihgt and goodwill
Adams Rubble: foresight
Adams Rubble: the forediht never works
Riddle Sideways: we live in that complexity
Riddle Sideways: between the simple and the choas
Riddle Sideways: encapsulated
Riddle Sideways: we explain in simple terms and simple examples
Eliza Madrigal: harmony and chaos....dots dots dots which don't seem to have much to do with one another until you step into Now/Presence
Riddle Sideways: what we think of the choas
Geo Netizen: Sometimes the subroutines have errors :)
Adams Rubble: lol Geo :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, know those errors(bugs) quite well
Adams Rubble: then one uses the forediht
Riddle Sideways: sometimes they come out as dots, dots, dots
Riddle Sideways: :)
Geo Netizen: and sometimes you just crash :)
Adams Rubble: yes
Eliza Madrigal: ah yes....didn't many evolutionary leaps come from what some would term "mistakes" in short term
Eliza Madrigal: or glitches perhaps
Geo Netizen nods
Riddle Sideways: in fact most indiht comes from errored forediht
Geo Netizen: The most important word in science is not eureka but ‘that’s funny’
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Adams Rubble: :)
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: well, folks we have wasted another hour here
Riddle Sideways: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Has been enjoyable, thanks
Adams Rubble: I must go now. Thank you all for a pleasant discussion :)
Adams Rubble: bye :)
Riddle Sideways: I must go too
Geo Netizen: Alway a productive waist :)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye everyone :)
Geo Netizen: *waste
Riddle Sideways: bye ya'll