2009.03.06 13:00 - Metaphorical Butt-Kick

The Guardian for this meeting was Solobill Laville. The comments are by Solobill Laville. I'll attempt to go through and add comments asap...

    Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel! :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hey Solo, long time no see:-)
    Tarmel Udimo: Very nice outfit!
    Solobill Laville: :) Thanks
    Solobill Laville: How have you been?
    Tarmel Udimo: very good
    Tarmel Udimo: thought I was coming down with a cold, but seem to be fighting it off
    Solobill Laville: Oh, great!
    Tarmel Udimo: how about you?
    Solobill Laville: Very well! Busy, but managing to stay balanced
    Solobill Laville: Nice necklace...reminds me of Venice
    Tarmel Udimo: oh ty, came with another outfit and I like it so wear it all the time
    Tarmel Udimo: have you been to Venice?
    Solobill Laville: Yes, once
    Tarmel Udimo: liked it?
    Solobill Laville: Yes, it is I think the most romantic city in the World, in my experience
    Solobill Laville: I was there off-prime tourist season though
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Solobill Laville: I hear it can get crowded and a bit "odorous" in the summer ;)
    Tarmel Udimo: and was it romantic?
    Solobill Laville: Oh, cobblestone sidewalks, intimate restaurants
    Solobill Laville: No cars...canals...bridges
    Solobill Laville: San Marco square
    Solobill Laville: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: ahh so the architecture and ambience was romantic but was the hreat pounding?
    Tarmel Udimo: heart
    Solobill Laville considers
    Solobill Laville: The environment greatly contributed to a pounding heart, yes
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Wol Euler: hello solo, tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: hey there Wol-e
    Solobill Laville: :) Ms. Euler!
    Wol Euler: evening all!
    Wol Euler: morning to you, tarmel, of course
    Tarmel Udimo: yep, was up at 6:00am so now latish morning
    Wol Euler: o.O
    Tarmel Udimo: I was just putting solo on the spot and he's managed to avoid the question very nicely
    Wol Euler: oooh, tricky.
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Fefonz! :)
    Wol Euler: hello fefonz
    Tarmel Udimo: hey fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: Hey Tarmel, Solo, Wol :)
    Solobill Laville: It was the last pre-children vacation with my wife and we had a lovely time, Tarmel ;)
    Tarmel Udimo: that's more like it:-)
    Tarmel Udimo: hello Anonymous1
    Anonymous1: hello everybody
    Solobill Laville: Hello, Anonymous1! :)
    Wol Euler: hello Anonymous1
    Anonymous1: whats up!
    Fefonz Quan: hi Anonymous1
    Wol Euler: clouds...
    Wol Euler: the bankruptcy rate
    Wol Euler: :)
    Anonymous1: what am i suppost to do here?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes everyone with kids talks about PC life with wismy solo
    Solobill Laville: We are part of a group that explores "what is real"
    Wol Euler: we are a meditation group, Anonymous1
    Solobill Laville: We all meet here to discuss our experiences, to create a shared vocabulary and an experiential library of sorts.
    Solobill Laville: Many times, it's about communicating those things in a way that the people you're with get your intent, get where you're coming from which is in the best case an open honest place.
    Solobill Laville: *Cal Heron
    Solobill Laville: Have you been here before Anonymous1?
    Anonymous1: no
    Anonymous1: i dont know how to play this game very well
    Solobill Laville: ok, there's no expectations really
    Fefonz Quan: brb
    Wol Euler: its not a game in the usual sense Anonymous1. There are no points, no score, no winning, no losing ...
    Solobill Laville: We use Sl more as a platform to communicate
    Anonymous1: i gotta it!
    Solobill Laville: I can give you a notecard or two about the group if you're interested
    Anonymous1: i just star this game 2 day ago...
    Fefonz Quan: back (with tea :))
    Anonymous1: ok
    Solobill Laville: wb, Fef
    Wol Euler: ah well, lost another one to Mara
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
    Wol Euler: hello faeil
    Tarmel Udimo: :-)
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Fael! :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi fael
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Feal :)
    Solobill Laville: Maybe we need to develop a PaB game for newbies
    Fael Illyar: game?
    Wol Euler: ooh great idea!
    Wol Euler: with points.
    Wol Euler: and buried treasure
    Solobill Laville: A Being gun, perhaps?
    Tarmel Udimo: hahashahaha
    Fefonz Quan: each 9-sec you get one point
    Solobill Laville: Ooh, points and buried treasure is much better
    Tarmel Udimo: if you last for 15mins you get many more points
    Wol Euler: exchange your treasure for a karmic upgrade
    Solobill Laville: And in the last 10 minutes we can have a "Mara dance party"!
    Wol Euler: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Solobill Laville: Any topics to share?
    Fefonz Quan: maybe
    Wol Euler raises an eyebrow
    Fefonz Quan: thought lately about the heart part in our practice
    Wol Euler: mm?
    Fael Illyar: umm... part?
    Fefonz Quan: we talk a lot about being, about pheno, about appearances, and i fell that i need sometimes
    Tarmel Udimo: can there be a seperation?
    Fefonz Quan: feel*
    Wol Euler: do you mean that there is not enough "heart" in the sessions?
    Fefonz Quan: to get back to the more emotional, human in a way part of the path
    Fefonz Quan: how or is is connecting us more to people around us,
    Fefonz Quan: making us more compasionate and kind
    Solobill Laville: Perhaps it is always there, Fef, but we lose sight of it in the stratosphere of conceptualizing a lot of this stuff
    Fefonz Quan: didn't mean to say that Wol
    Fefonz Quan: yes, Solo
    Fefonz Quan: maybe i'm talking about my practice Wo, wouldn't blame the "sessions" at all
    Fael Illyar: The heart is in everything we do but we can also choose to just express the heart too.
    Fefonz Quan: how Fael?
    Tarmel Udimo: its strange but I find by staying present in being so to speak one sees celarly and feels clearly what is called for and as fael says sometimes its just heart stuff
    Solobill Laville: That is not strange at all Tarmel...I think it is a very natural occurence
    Solobill Laville: Ultimate naturalness actually :)
    Fael Illyar: I love you Fefonz :)
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Fael Illyar: (was that expressive enough?)
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Solobill Laville: Fefonz, may I ask, does faith play any role in your practice?
    Wol Euler smiles
    Fefonz Quan like expressiveness
    Fael Illyar: I guess I mean this with expressing just the heart :)
    Fefonz Quan: faith is a complicated word for me
    Solobill Laville: Can you simplify it?
    Fefonz Quan: faith, like a faith in god is not a concept i follow, since i believe in experiennce and not pre-assumptions
    Fefonz Quan: but faith in the way that i have faith that i am walking in the right directin, yes
    Fefonz Quan: direction*
    Fael Illyar: to me God is not a pre-assumptions. Merely a term for something that's rather difficult to describe.
    Solobill Laville: That is the faith I meant
    Solobill Laville: (the latter)
    Fefonz Quan: though this needs checking every once in a while
    Fael Illyar: (if not downright impossible to describe)
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Chiaiu Chiung: hi all
    Wol Euler: hello chiaiu
    Solobill Laville: That faith in "right direction" is very important, imho
    Solobill Laville: Hi, Chiaiu! :)
    Fefonz Quan: and one of the checkings is what i'm doing now
    Fefonz Quan: Hi Chiaiu :)
    Tarmel Udimo: Hi Chiaiu
    Tarmel Udimo: being able to express arsing feelings which are different to emotions needs trust
    Fefonz Quan trying to avoid blind faith
    Tarmel Udimo: *Arising
    Fael Illyar: blind faith is best avoided by seeing :)
    Fefonz Quan: can you say more about the different between feelings and emotions?
    Tarmel Udimo: its more about how it arises
    Solobill Laville humbly must excuse himself...last accepted to a one-day retreat, bye all (I have claimed the log)
    Wol Euler: oooh, ecellent!
    Fefonz Quan: Bye Solo :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Solo :)
    Wol Euler: bye solo, have a great time, be restful and enlightened
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye solo
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    Solobill Laville: :) bye!
    Tarmel Udimo: its like a feeling state that arises from the center of me
    Tarmel Udimo: and usually assocaited with a feeling openess and vulnerabilty
    Tarmel Udimo: hwre as emotions are well we all experience them
    Tarmel Udimo: its difficult to be that open...
    Fefonz Quan: (just prefer that posture for my knees)
    Wol Euler: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: you can change by clicking on the mat
    Tarmel Udimo: move over chiaiu
    Fefonz Quan: So you are taking about openness Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh okay
    Tarmel Udimo: see about mat
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Fael Illyar: seems I need to go afk for a while...
    Wol Euler: hb
    Tarmel Udimo: when can get swept up in emotions but this 'feels' different its like my whole being is responding and yet remaining objective
    Tarmel Udimo: One
    Fefonz Quan: adn what you describe is connected to our practice?
    Tarmel Udimo: it doesn't happen very often
    Wol Euler: it sounds almost as though you mean "love" when you say "feeling"
    Wol Euler: (in the sense that we were trying to define love last friday)
    Tarmel Udimo: you could call it love in which case it is non human or very human
    Tarmel Udimo: but it relates to the practice because it is triggered by clarity
    Wol Euler: hello ari
    Chiaiu Chiung: hi arisia
    Fefonz Quan: hello arisia
    Tarmel Udimo: hi arisia
    Arisia Vita: Hi to all
    Tarmel Udimo: its the missing link that I think you are talking about fefonz
    Fefonz Quan: So if i understood you Tarmel you say that the practice helps you to open your heart in a way
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Wol Euler nods.
    Tarmel Udimo: in a non senitmental way
    Fefonz Quan: missing would be a little harsh
    Fefonz Quan: but that is the link i talk about, yes
    Tarmel Udimo: if taken as a critism and not a pointer:-)
    Fefonz Quan: i do know what you're taking about Tarmel, having expreienced it myself
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Fefonz Quan: (i hope)
    Tarmel Udimo: of course you do:-)
    Fefonz Quan: but sometimes i feel that it is easy to feel like that on the cushion, but maintaining it while going on daily life
    Fefonz Quan: is the tricky part
    Wol Euler thinks about the "world's worst buddhist" link that Gen posted in the e-mail forum today
    Tarmel Udimo: yes interestinly enough taking the pressure off 'working' on it in daily life has allowed it to arise more often in daily life:-)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes I read that too
    Tarmel Udimo: it was fun and a much needed insight
    Fefonz Quan: i just started, then interrupted...
    Wol Euler nods
    Fael Illyar: Ah, Hi Ari :)
    Fefonz Quan: Wb Fael :0
    Tarmel Udimo: one needs a good rangle once in a while
    Fael Illyar is no longer afk.
    Fefonz Quan: :)
    Wol Euler: wb fael
    Arisia Vita: Hi Fael
    Tarmel Udimo: and a few emotional explosions
    Fefonz Quan: where there any in the article ?
    Tarmel Udimo: wol?
    Wol Euler: I too didn't get to the end, sorry :)
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
    Wol Euler: reading in the office, didn't think to finish it when I got home
    Tarmel Udimo: yes there was a bit of SHOUTING
    Arisia Vita: Hi Anonymous2
    Fefonz Quan: shouting may be very liberating
    Chiaiu Chiung: hi Anonymous2
    Tarmel Udimo: basically her friend was killing her with kindness and she just needed a good rave and rant and for that to be okay without the buddhist overtones ...
    Tarmel Udimo: hi Anonymous2
    Wol Euler: are you OK, Anonymous2?
    Fefonz Quan fefonz exercised shouting in a workshop once, a great experience
    Wol Euler: right-click on a cushion and select "sit" to join us
    Fael Illyar: Yes, everyone has different needs. She needed shouting, not comforting :)
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Fefonz Quan: yes, many times people confuse compassion with kindness
    Fefonz Quan: when it can be the opposite
    Tarmel Udimo: I did for a long time, still do sometimes
    Fefonz Quan: i found a kick in the butt (metaphoricly) to bring me some of the best quantum leaps forward
    Tarmel Udimo: yes:-)
    Fael Illyar: yes, some people just are able to give themselves the kick and might even do that too much. So those people don't need others kicking them more :)
    Fael Illyar: others can't and need it from others
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that's true
    Fefonz Quan: a good teacher should know to recognize it
    Fael Illyar: I find it a good "rule" to not look at rules, look at the person you're dealing with
    Fefonz Quan: exactly, that's what i meant in the previous response
    Fefonz Quan: and the tricky part is: try to look at him without your own filters
    Fael Illyar: filters, rules, are they not the same thing?
    Fefonz Quan: i wouldn't say so Fael
    Fefonz Quan: rules you set for yourselfs, your filters you are sometimes unaware of
    Wol Euler: that's a nice definition.
    Fael Illyar: can you give me an example of a filter?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes filters are the hardest
    Fael Illyar: and perhaps explanation how to tell it apart from a rule
    Fefonz Quan: a rule i telling you what to do: "if you meet a tall strong guy, he needs a kick in the but"
    Fefonz Quan: is *
    Fael Illyar: oh, you don't have rules you make for yourself? or is filter your term for those?
    Fefonz Quan: a filter is "when i see a tall big guy, i immediately feel intimidated, in both conscious or un conscious way"
    Fael Illyar: is that just not a rule that says "a tall big guy is dangerous"?
    Tarmel Udimo: no I think of it as a filter
    Fefonz Quan: well, maybe filters have some rules, but rules can apply to many things
    Fefonz Quan: filters define how we see the world, i think
    Fefonz Quan: rules can tell us what to do,
    Fael Illyar: isn't that interpreting and as such doing?
    Fefonz Quan: a more basic filter can be - i am color blinded
    Tarmel Udimo: filters feel more like they come from rules and embed themselves in us so we don't even know they are there
    Fefonz Quan: i'm not sure color blindness is a rule i put on myself
    Fael Illyar: Whether it is, or isn't, I don't know.
    Arisia Vita: If you all will excuse me, I want to catch the Kira meeting...
    Fael Illyar: but why does a rule have to be something you've put on yourself?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes i have to go too..
    Arisia Vita: hope to see you all again....
    Wol Euler: bye ari, take care
    Fefonz Quan: mee too
    Wol Euler: and bye tarmel too.
    Wol Euler: and fefonz
    Chiaiu Chiung: and me too
    Wol Euler: enjoy the weekend
    Wol Euler: bye chiaiu
    Wol Euler: bye fael
    Wol Euler: bye me
    Wol Euler: bye playgoda
    Fefonz Quan: have a good weekend too, Wol, Fael :)
    Fael Illyar: See you later Tarmel :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye all
    Fael Illyar: See you later Wol, Fefonz, Chiaiu