2009.03.30 19:00 - Patterns

The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.

Threedee tried to start of discussion of the concept of PATTERNS and the relation of that concept to our perception of reality. The pattern of the evening was low-energy (or equivalent), so the discussion did not get far.

Threedee Shepherd: Good evening Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Three!
Pema Pera: Hi Kira!
Threedee Shepherd: Purrr, Kira
Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Kira?
Kira Pidgeon: Yea Pema.. I'm Korii.
Pema Pera: ah!!
Pema Pera: hehehe
Kira Pidgeon: I'm also laying in cypress lap wile he hosts WWC
Pema Pera: thought yuo looked famliar :)
Threedee Shepherd: Outnumbered already, Pema
Pema Pera: not multiple personalities but multiple bodies
Kira Pidgeon: hi threedee
Kira Pidgeon: may be a little of both pema ;)
Kira Pidgeon: purrrr
Kira Pidgeon: white lion ^.^
Threedee Shepherd: decorated leopard ??
Kira Pidgeon: you mean my collar?
Threedee Shepherd: no your non-spots
Kira Pidgeon: hee hee
Kira Pidgeon: i like to call them muted
Threedee Shepherd: good camo in certain modern art museums :D
Kira Pidgeon: :)
Kira Pidgeon: hi doug
Threedee Shepherd: actually, your decor leads to what I wanted to bring up tonight, the overall concept of patterns
Threedee Shepherd: hi doug
doug Sosa: hi all.
Pema Pera: Hi Doug, good seeing you again!
doug Sosa: thankyou. yes.
Pema Pera: patterns, Three?
Threedee Shepherd: OK, I'll start with a question. How would you you start to define the concept PATTERN
Pema Pera: me? no idea, I generally don't try to define general things, rather work with them
Threedee Shepherd: ok, how do you recognize a pattern?, say as in, I perceive a pattern in all that activity?
Pema Pera: (for Doug: a new feature: 90 seconds silence in SL, as opposed to 9 sec stopping in RL)
Pema Pera: (Storm implemented the visuals of the fountain growing mysty, and the beginning and ending bell)
Pema Pera: (as well as the green text in the communicate window)
doug Sosa: interesting to think about pattern. 90 sec every 15 is a pattern.
Pema Pera: I just recognize patterns, Three, don't know how I do it
Threedee Shepherd: yes, a very regular one!
Threedee Shepherd: Pema, If I set up a random spatial collection, would you see a pattern
Pema Pera: perhaps
Threedee Shepherd: hi steve
Pema Pera: would depend on the exact details -- I can see patterns in clouds
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: waves, Hi Doug, three, Pema, Kira
doug Sosa: :)
Threedee Shepherd: steve, I asked, what are "patterns", such as a pattern of behavior
stevenaia Michinaga: and so much more
doug Sosa: Oriental rugs feature "mistakes" to highten sense of livliness that comes with pattern.
Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
Kira Pidgeon: hi steve
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting topic, hello Kira
Threedee Shepherd: There is another sense--as follows. I can watch a group of interacting individuals and try to figure out what each one is doing, and perhaps in response to what. An atomistic view. alternatively I can look to see if I can discern an overall pattern to what is going on.
stevenaia Michinaga: you named for the cafe, Kira?
Pema Pera: yes, Three
Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, novices tend to start atomistically to recognize, whereas experts perceive thge patterns, based on intense experience
Pema Pera: yes, like playing chess for example
Threedee Shepherd: exactly!
Kira Pidgeon: no
Kira Pidgeon: i made this avitsr long befor i knew about kira cafee
Threedee Shepherd: patterns are somewhat like a higher level of perception
Pema Pera: great foresight, Kira!
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
doug Sosa: Humans attribute pattern to random events.
Threedee Shepherd: yes, the brain does that as a way of trying to "force" sense onto the chaos around us.
Kira Pidgeon: i think my kira is older then Pema's kira
Pema Pera: Pema's Kira just had its 12th birthday in RL
Threedee Shepherd: And if none is there the brain will often/usually ionvent one.
Pema Pera: but only half a year in SL
Kira Pidgeon: oh nm
Kira Pidgeon: ^.^
Kira Pidgeon: i thoughtiut wa sjsut ayear.. or may be a year in SL.
Pema Pera: PaB started a year ago, on April 1.
Pema Pera: Kira came into SL half a year later
Kira Pidgeon: ah.
Pema Pera: Yes, Three, we understand the world through categories
Pema Pera: what you call patterns, perhaps?
Kira Pidgeon: my birthday is the 7th.
Pema Pera: I never see something really unique
Pema Pera: I see a table or a chair
Pema Pera: or a non-specific "thing" but still a thing
Pema Pera: never a "no-idea-at-all" object
Pema Pera: always a member of a categorie
Pema Pera: normally speaking
Pema Pera: I'm curious to see what Threeded is crafting here :)

Threedee was making a panel on which a totally random placement of grains was arrayed.

Pema Pera: but I also am getting quite sleepy
Pema Pera: haven't slept much the last few days
Threedee Shepherd: other than the fact that the surface is bounded, do you discern a pattern in it's "design"
Pema Pera: so I think I'll return to a RL bed . . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: understandable
Pema Pera: sure, Threedee
Pema Pera: lines and such
Threedee Shepherd: do you think that is how I made it
Pema Pera: it doesn't look completely random to me
Pema Pera: but we can easily be fooled
Threedee Shepherd: It is a close to a 2D random noise figure as can be displayed in SL, actually
Pema Pera: yes, the eye has evolved to recognize features
Pema Pera: for good reasons, with tigers around for example, hehehe
Threedee Shepherd: I made and use it to "tile" surfaces when I want them to not look at all repeating
Pema Pera: and lions
Threedee Shepherd: Did the eye so eveolve, or the /eye/brain
Threedee Shepherd: *evolve
Pema Pera: well, I'm happy to pick up the topic again next time!
Threedee Shepherd: goodnight Pema
Pema Pera: maybe I'll first have some random dreams :)
Pema Pera: be well, y'all !
stevenaia Michinaga: write them down
Pema Pera: randomly?
Threedee Shepherd: using random numbers as symbols, of course
Pema Pera: (some dreams do repeat!)
Pema Pera: :-)
Pema Pera: bfn!
Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, a random surface such as that looks less random to the typical viewer than does a pseudo random one.
stevenaia Michinaga: Doud, I sent you an email a few weks ago, did you happen to see it?
Threedee Shepherd: that's because clumps happen in a random surface, but people trying to "make" random surfaces tend not to put points very close together.
Threedee Shepherd: In a throw or a "perfect" coin a million times, runs of 100 heads will occur. Locally that would look very non-random
Threedee Shepherd: I bring this up because I am interested in the relationships between pattern (and pattern making) and the perception of reality
stevenaia Michinaga: bit if they occure in a row
stevenaia Michinaga: reality is a pattern? Three
Threedee Shepherd: No, tenuous patterns (or even more stable ones) emerge out of, OR become a local reality
Threedee Shepherd: I suggest
stevenaia Michinaga: is reality a perception or what "is" or either?
stevenaia Michinaga: what was that quote, abotu it's what;s left when you stop beliveing?
Threedee Shepherd: I am avoiding that explicit question--tonight--by approaching the perception of pattern as a way of THEN exploring "reality"
stevenaia Michinaga: is a pattern a pattern if it not perceived?
stevenaia Michinaga: are we substtuting patter for "reality"
Threedee Shepherd: no, we are saying that there seams to be value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception, and seeing where that leads
Threedee Shepherd: *seems although seams might fit too
stevenaia Michinaga: lol
stevenaia Michinaga: can you give me an example of it's value
stevenaia Michinaga: to you
stevenaia Michinaga: you can see the groups people belong to
stevenaia Michinaga: opps, wrong window
Threedee Shepherd: steve, patterns and you aia-ness are highly related, are they not
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but I was looking for your "value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception"
Threedee Shepherd: are football players running around aimlessly, or is there a pattern to their play. That pattern suggests something besides running around is going on. That then leads to looking at the scene differently and focusing perception
Threedee Shepherd: So, I am suggesting that "perception" do not "just happen"
stevenaia Michinaga: they are constructed
Threedee Shepherd: and that patterns are a major part of perceiving, which thus already structures/skews reality
stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, an interesting begining
Threedee Shepherd: g'nite
stevenaia Michinaga: night Kira
Threedee Shepherd: Well, I guess tonight's PaB pattern might be names "Tentative beginnings, maybe....."
Threedee Shepherd: bye all