2009.03.14 13:00 - A little ambiguity

Wol Euler recovered this session from the autologging databse. The guardian was Aurora Kitaj.

  

  

 

Adams Rubble: Hello Zen :)

Adams Rubble: Hello Scath :)

Zen Arado: HI Adams, Scath :)

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Zen

Adams Rubble: Zen, did you come into PaB from one of the Kira groups or did you just find us?

Adams Rubble: Hello Michorod :)

Adams Rubble: Hello Arabella :)

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Micko, Ara

Mickorod Renard: hiya

Adams Rubble: Hello Pema :)

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pema

Mickorod Renard: hiya Pema

Pema Pera: hi everybody!

arabella Ella: hiya everyone!

Zen Arado: hi Mick, Aea, Pema

Mickorod Renard: Hi Ara

Mickorod Renard: Zen Scath Adams

Adams Rubble whispers Shhhhhhh, it's OK

Pema Pera: :-)

Pema Pera: it has been another wild week for you, Adams, right?

Adams Rubble: Yes but ending very quietly

Mickorod Renard: yeh,,she sat on my knee lastnight

Adams Rubble: hehe

Mickorod Renard: or was it thursday

Pema Pera waiting for more details :)

Adams Rubble forgot to wait for people to rezz when there is a big crowd

Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Pema Pera: ah!

Mickorod Renard: any excuse

arabella Ella: i am sure micko is not complaining... smile

Mickorod Renard: he he

Pema Pera: Any further thoughts about your dreams, Adams?

Adams Rubble: No, since it has not repeated it didn't seem to be something I should worry about..just take lightly as you suggested

Adams Rubble: I haven't done any mass murders anyway

Mickorod Renard: can I ask about the dreams?

Pema Pera: I was sitting in PaB with friends with one major difference. Instead of a small group at the pavilion in Bieup, we were on a hillside with a great number of avatars of many sizes, shapes and sizes. It almost looked as if all the animals had escaped Grendel's. I do remember a giraffe sticking up and birds of many shapes and colors in addition to the many regular humanoid avatars.

Adams Rubble: ?)

Pema Pera: was one of the dreams that Adams recorded recently :)

Adams Rubble: :)

Adams Rubble forgot about that

Pema Pera: nice to have SL dreams, isn't it?

Mickorod Renard: ok,,cool

Pema Pera: happens to me quite often too, these days

Zen Arado: can dreams throw any light on RL do you think?

Mickorod Renard: I only ever recall one

Mickorod Renard: of sl

Adams Rubble dreams regularly of SL

Pema Pera: Hi Yowl!

Yowl Coleslaw: hello

Adams Rubble: Hello Yowl

Zen Arado: hi Yowl

Yowl Coleslaw: whats this?

Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- We record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?

Pema Pera: And feel free to join us, any time

Yowl Coleslaw: sounds nice

Mickorod Renard: I met some italians in renaisance costume in a dream..so as I couldnt understand them i switched on babbler and typed my talk to them

Adams Rubble: :)

Pema Pera: hahaha

Zen Arado: good idea :)

Pema Pera: how convenient!

Adams Rubble: Sounds like a nice dream :)

Pema Pera wishes for an unbabbler

Mickorod Renard: he he

Pema Pera: when people in a restaurant talk too loudly in a language he happens to know

Mickorod Renard: Hi yowl

Yowl Coleslaw: hello

Yowl Coleslaw: well i better go nice talking to you all

Yowl Coleslaw: bye

Pema Pera: bye Yowl!

Zen Arado: bye

Adams Rubble: bye Yowl

Pema Pera: Hi Aurora!

Mickorod Renard: bye

Mickorod Renard: Hi aurora

Zen Arado: HI Aurora :)

Adams Rubble: Yowl's profile said she gets bored easily

Scathach Rhiadra: hmmm, what is the minimum age for the main grid, is it not 18?

Aurora Kitaj: so sorry I'm late everyone!

Adams Rubble: Hi Aurora :)

Aurora Kitaj: Putting kids to bed

Pema Pera: yes, Scath

Pema Pera: good to see you, Aurora!

Zen Arado: this hour early is awkward for us

Scathach Rhiadra: his profile said 17, if Lindens catch him:)

Pema Pera: Do you remember how to claim the log from the listener in the middle of the fountain?

arabella Ella: yes

arabella Ella: early hour i mean

Aurora Kitaj: yes, thank you

Mickorod Renard: I struggled knowing how to attach snapshots

Adams Rubble: You have to put them into the bottom of the page first and then can attach them above

Adams Rubble: Hello Tarmel

Mickorod Renard: hi Tarmel

Zen Arado: Hi Tarmel

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel

Pema Pera: hi there Tarmel!

Pema Pera wondering whether Adams has no time, or is interested in "no time" . . . .

Adams Rubble: hehe

Adams Rubble: a little ambiguity

arabella Ella: hiya Tarmel

Mickorod Renard: I will have to practice with the snapshots

Aurora Kitaj: hello Tarmel, arabella Scath, adams, Zen Pema and Mickorod:)

Adams Rubble: Feel free to ask if you have problems Michorod

arabella Ella: Pema ... about time ... besides zeroth time ... do you think it is possible to 'stretch' time cos the passage of time is so weird

Mickorod Renard: thankyou

Pema Pera: well, I don't know whether I can stretch time, but yes. time shows up in many ways

arabella Ella: yes but

arabella Ella: what i mean is

Adams Rubble: Time can pass very slowly at work or on jury duty

arabella Ella: if we are waiting and bored time takes ages

arabella Ella: if you have deadlines or are busy time seems to go by so fast

Pema Pera: :)

Adams Rubble: yep

Zen Arado: at a zen retreat time seems to disappear

arabella Ella: and when asleep sometimes one tends to wake up always at same time like body as an alarm clock

Zen Arado: when you meditate all day

arabella Ella: hey Zen I need a retreat ... but ... not easy where i am

Zen Arado: something happens to it

arabella Ella: yes i think it is weird

arabella Ella: the passage of time ... fast ... slow ... or suspended

Mickorod Renard: is it not relative

arabella Ella: i dunno

Zen Arado: it would be very difficult to sit silently for so long otherwise

arabella Ella: yes

Adams Rubble nods

arabella Ella: but Zen does it take time to get into that 'mode of time'?

arabella Ella: or is it immediate?

Pema Pera: Hi Maggie!

Zen Arado: but it is simply a construction we put on reality?

Adams Rubble: Hello Maggie

Mickorod Renard: hi Maggie

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Maggie

Zen Arado: Hi Maggie

Aurora Kitaj: Hi Maggie, nice to see you. Please take a seat:)

Adams Rubble: Do you feel you drop time Zen?

Zen Arado: takes me a day or 2

Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Maggie?

Zen Arado: second day is the worst

arabella Ella: ok even on vacation it takes a day or two to get into vacation mood where concept of time changes too

Pema Pera: sorry, was tring to remember, Maggie :)

arabella Ella: may i ask Zen why second day is more difficult as i would av thought it would be progressive?

Zen Arado: dont know

arabella Ella: just asking how it feels ... if u wish ...

Zen Arado: maybe because I dont sleep too well first night

arabella Ella: ok i see

Mickorod Renard: perhaps the expectation it will be worse than the first

Zen Arado: just my experience

arabella Ella: restlessness?

arabella Ella: or not?

Zen Arado: yes restlessness

arabella Ella: ok i see

Mickorod Renard: is the fountain supposed to be a box?

arabella Ella: different mode of experience i guess

Zen Arado: a 'slowing down'

arabella Ella: yes

Zen Arado: and when people return from a long retreat they have to readjust again

arabella Ella: yes i can imagine that is not easy either

Zen Arado: everything seems too fast and hectic

arabella Ella: but how long is a long retreat if i may ask?

Mickorod Renard: is there an aprehension when you get older that if you do not rush along then you will run out of lifespan too soon?

Zen Arado: though I only do 5 day retreats

arabella Ella: ok

Pema Pera: hmm, it is very difficult to claim the chat log from the listener today . . . perhaps because the fountain is low?

Zen Arado: it is happening to me I think Mick :)

arabella Ella: and may i ask is it silence all the way through Zen?

Adams Rubble: Interesting question Mickerod

Pema Pera: sorry, I was trying to help Aurora, but can't claim now myself . . .

Zen Arado: yes apart fro functional talk

arabella Ella: ok cool

Scathach Rhiadra: neither can I

Zen Arado: asking someone to pass the salt etc

arabella Ella: yes so no small talk then

Zen Arado: no it would defeat the purpose

arabella Ella: yes i can see that

Zen Arado: you would bring the world with you

arabella Ella: so do you see you can attain Pema's concept of zeroth time via meditation in a retreat?

Zen Arado: it isnt an escape from life

arabella Ella: no of course not

Zen Arado: just seeing into yourself more deeply

arabella Ella: it is re-gaining equilibrium

Zen Arado: which is what we do here too I guess

arabella Ella: yes

arabella Ella: i guess so

Pema Pera: sorry, can anyone detect the PaB listener?

Pema Pera: sorry to interrupt, but we seem to have technical problems

Scathach Rhiadra: no, it does not seem to be recording

Zen Arado: I am a philosopher too Ara - I get too caught up in conceptes and thoughts

Adams Rubble: It said it started when I came in

arabella Ella: yes Zen i know exactly what you mean

Aurora Kitaj: I hope that I haven't done any permanent damage to the recorder :(

arabella Ella: i just hope you dont mind my questions as i am a very curious person

Aurora Kitaj: ok

Zen Arado: now I try to realie that they are useful but not 'real'

arabella Ella: you mean questions or curiousity are not real?

Zen Arado: good servants but bad masters

Pema Pera: yes, Maggie, but I can't seem to find a way to click on it

Pema Pera: I'll put in a service call to Wol Euler :)

Adams Rubble: I am talking to her now

Zen Arado: yes but the labels we pin on things are not real

arabella Ella: yes

Zen Arado: and we often think they are

arabella Ella: they are all our constructs i think

arabella Ella: like our concepts or our perceptions too

Zen Arado: yes but we seem to get trapped in them

arabella Ella: yes we do

Zen Arado: we look at a rose and define it

Zen Arado: but it is a very complicated thing

Zen Arado: and interconnected with everything else

arabella Ella: u can say that again

Adams Rubble: It IS recording

Adams Rubble: It seems the messages/error status os wrong

Zen Arado: you know the zen example of a sheet of paper?

arabella Ella: no i dont

arabella Ella: could you elaborate pls?

Zen Arado: it needs so many things before it can exist

Adams Rubble: The log will be sent to Aurora when we are done

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: yes,,i am intrigued too Zen

Zen Arado: tsthe trees needed rain sun

arabella Ella: true

Aurora Kitaj: thank you so much Adams :)

Zen Arado: invention of printing

arabella Ella: yes

Zen Arado: of papermaking technology

arabella Ella: also

Zen Arado: etc

arabella Ella: and ink if the paper is to be used for communication

arabella Ella: plus the skill of writing alphabet etc

Zen Arado: yes it goes on for ever

Pema Pera: sorry, Adams, the log will not be sent to Aurora if the log cannot be claimed by her

Mickorod Renard: so we dont say the paper isnt rel,,but its reality is a sum of its past etc?

arabella Ella: yes Zen and it shows the interconnectedness of everything that exists and how we attribute meaning to objects?

Zen Arado: but we tend to stick labels on things that separate them from the rest of reality

Adams Rubble: Pema, it is being sent manually :)

Pema Pera: ah, okay! Thank you

arabella Ella: argh Zen so many philosophy classes i attended come to mind ... smile

Zen Arado: it is useful to reductively analyse things but we must remember what we have done

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: is it a case of having to live with the labels,,except for moments like this or zen retreat time?

Zen Arado: I think Hegel said something along those lines

arabella Ella: i think we can learn as we do here to see different levels of significance

Zen Arado: in Phenomenology of spirit

Zen Arado: or was it \\heidegger?

arabella Ella: not sure about Hegel ... Wittgenstein and Davidson come to mind ... but i think we should avoid theory here ... smile

Mickorod Renard: hi medium

Zen Arado: yes

Zen Arado: or quoting philosophers :)

Pema Pera: That was Hegel, Zen

arabella Ella: cool

Pema Pera: Hi Medium!

Aurora Kitaj: Hello Medium, please come and take a seat, you would be most welcome to join us:)

Zen Arado: he criticised sciens quite a bit if I remember correctly

Zen Arado: science

arabella Ella: i suppose w3e could ask ... not just whether we need labels ... but also whether we need language ... and whether we can think beyond the concepts we have in our language

Mickorod Renard: hello medium

Zen Arado: they are useful but we have to see throught them

Zen Arado: we get trapped by them

arabella Ella: yes but do you think that seeing through concepts still keeps us within the trap of our language and therefore is circular as language is still concepts?

Mickorod Renard: the us military are experimenting with mind sent messages in the battlefield scenario,,to negate the neeed for radio

arabella Ella: and does anyone here have experience of thinking 'outside' concepts and language?

Aurora Kitaj: welcome back Medium :)

Zen Arado: but when we start to think like that we are getting trapped again I think Ara

Zen Arado: you do that when you meditate Ara

Adams Rubble: Everybody, please look in your objects folder in your inventory and see if there is a "PaB listener there"

arabella Ella: ok i see

Mickorod Renard: ok

Pema Pera: ah

Pema Pera: Aurora clicked "take"

Pema Pera: instead of claim

Pema Pera: Aurora, you probably "took" the whole listener!!

arabella Ella: i dont have it

Zen Arado: nope

Mickorod Renard: nope,,not me

Pema Pera: do you know, Aurora, how to look into your inventory?

Scathach Rhiadra: don't have it:)

Tarmel Udimo: no I don't have it:-)

Adams Rubble: ah there it is

Maggie Rae: Adams, I have an object detector - the listener is below the pool marble

Aurora Kitaj: yes, you are right! So sorry

Adams Rubble: try claiming now

Pema Pera: no, not your fault

Pema Pera: "take" is similar to "claim" -- we should make the words more clear

Adams Rubble: left click insteaad of right

Pema Pera: very understandable mistake

Pema Pera: YEAH !!!

Adams Rubble: yay

Aurora Kitaj: Just claimed it!!!!

Scathach Rhiadra: yay:)

Mediumflow Difference: :)

Aurora Kitaj: THanks for your patience everyone:)

Zen Arado: I am reading an interesting book about how emotions work with reason in decision making

Tarmel Udimo: yeah!

Pema Pera: np. Aurora, one problem less in the world !

Zen Arado: 'The Decicive Moment'

arabella Ella: which book is that Zen?

arabella Ella: oh ok ty

Zen Arado: Jonah Lehrer

arabella Ella: sounds intruiging

Zen Arado: there are many things we do that have to be done from our emotional instinctive brain

arabella Ella: could you give some examples please?

Zen Arado: like a quarterback making his decision who to pass to

Zen Arado: he could never work that out logically

arabella Ella: yes intuitive but based on prior experience

Zen Arado: yes

Mickorod Renard: would that be included in cybernetics?

arabella Ella: or like a dog catching a ball in its mouth in mid air

Maggie Rae: Human psychology is biased away from an accurate appreciation of probability and risk - an example is the 'Monty Hall' problem

Zen Arado: our bain is very good at working things out based on previous experience

Zen Arado: but it can fool us too

Zen Arado: like people gambling

arabella Ella: yes i strpongly believe that we do things intuitively but our intuition is shaped by our experience and knowledge

Zen Arado: on slot machines

arabella Ella: yes

Maggie Rae: gambling whenthere is a business that depends on people gambling is a very odd human behaviour

Zen Arado: thats as far as I have got

Zen Arado: :)

arabella Ella: fantastic stuff Zen thanks

Zen Arado: there is a famous example of a man who lost the emotional area of his brain

arabella Ella: yes?

Zen Arado: could not make decisions about anything

Mickorod Renard: but in respect to the brain being fooled,,well its only natural,,like as in pain

Aurora Kitaj: that's very interesting

Mickorod Renard: yes

Zen Arado: would spend hours analysing all the pros and cons of everything

arabella Ella: wow

Zen Arado: lost his job, wife, everything

Aurora Kitaj: but, I'm bound to wonder how this must effect autistic people

Aurora Kitaj: who are often considered to be less empathetic than most

Zen Arado: yes maybe that is pat of their problem too?

Tarmel Udimo: how so aurora?

Tarmel Udimo: can you tell us more

Aurora Kitaj: perhaps empathy is separate from emotion?

Zen Arado: they get lost in chains of reason don't they?

Aurora Kitaj: well, I'm not aware that autistic ppl have problems in decision making mor than the rest of us

Zen Arado: I dont know much about it Aurora

Tarmel Udimo: I'm curious about [13:52] Aurora Kitaj: perhaps empathy is separate from emotion?

Aurora Kitaj: There's no reason to suppose that this is true, its just

Mickorod Renard: empathy: the power to put ones personality into the object of contemplation

Aurora Kitaj: a question, given the example just given

arabella Ella: perhaps emotion is involved in most of our decision making unless we build i skill to take decisions apart from emotion, while empathy is a different skill which one can attain?

arabella Ella: and skills are gained with practice not with knowledge

Zen Arado: i tend to think empathy is a natural faculty we lose when we separate ourselves from others

arabella Ella: like the skills we attempt to build here

Mediumflow Difference: But can we make reasonable decisions without any empathy with others (beings, animals, plants, things) around us?

Aurora Kitaj: thank you ara, that's so true

Mickorod Renard: maybe a natural faculty that becomes anethetised with repetition?

arabella Ella: but it is difficult i find to put our emotions aside when we take decisions and not everyone is capable to doing so

Aurora Kitaj: yes medium:)

arabella Ella: capable of

Zen Arado: yes or fear Mick

arabella Ella: but ... i think ... empathy becomes anestitised only if we allow it to be

Aurora Kitaj: so emotional intelligence might be the ability to use the power of empathy to decide on the best course of action

Zen Arado: meditation helps us see through th fear and anger that separates us from loving others

arabella Ella: or to harness our empathy as a skill perhaps?

Zen Arado: I think

Mickorod Renard: I think empathy can be more prevelent over a broader aspect of our lives if we had time

Zen Arado: when we realise out interconnectedness we will naturally feel empathy

arabella Ella: yes

Aurora Kitaj: Can you give us an example Mickorod?

Mediumflow Difference: Anthropologists speak of a natural 'mimesis' with the beings around us. Which we tend to lose.

Mickorod Renard: I think the advances over the last hundred years have outstripped our evolution on a mindful basis

arabella Ella: but although meditation is one route towards empathy i think there are others such as being compassionate for example

Pema Pera is quietly taking off and saying goodbye

Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)

Mickorod Renard: bye Pema

Tarmel Udimo: bye Pema

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema:)

Aurora Kitaj: Bye Pema, and thanks

Pema Pera: (not so quietly :)

arabella Ella: bye Pema

Mediumflow Difference: Bye Pema!

Pema Pera: bye everybody!

Zen Arado: technology has distanced us from our environment maybe

Aurora Kitaj: thanks for everything

Zen Arado: bye Pema

Mediumflow Difference: Or, the other way round:

Mediumflow Difference: we are still learning how to keep empathy via technology.

Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree medium

Mickorod Renard: most of human existance on the planet had been more sedatory,,not less work,,but less complicated

arabella Ella: but are we here not using technology which enables empathy via SL?

Zen Arado: in what way Ara?

Tarmel Udimo: I agree arabella

arabella Ella: i would not point fingers at technology

Mediumflow Difference: I agree arabella!

Zen Arado: yes maybe

arabella Ella: there are other 'evils' which alienate us in my opinion

Zen Arado: it can be ennabling too

arabella Ella: yes

Mickorod Renard: not at technology,,but the way we use it

Zen Arado: I was thinking of the way it enabled western man to plunder the earth

arabella Ella: every technology has advantages and disadvantages

arabella Ella: everything is life has pros and cons

Mickorod Renard: the more time we have to contemplate,,the more likely empathy shows through

Zen Arado: instead of living harmoniously like the native Americans

Adams Rubble: goodbye everyone. take good care :)

Tarmel Udimo: bye adams

Scathach Rhiadra: bye Adams

arabella Ella: bye Adams

Zen Arado: bye Adams

Aurora Kitaj: Bye adams

Mickorod Renard: bye Adams

Mediumflow Difference: bye adams

Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming

arabella Ella: it would be great to be able to go back to a 'simple' life but how realistic or feasible is that?

Tarmel Udimo: I was also curious about this [13:42] Mickorod Renard: the us military are experimenting with mind sent messages in the battlefield scenario,,to negate the neeed for radio

arabella Ella: and technology enables so much good stuff too

Tarmel Udimo: this is not technology and yet is it?

arabella Ella: like medicine

arabella Ella: innoculations

Mickorod Renard: I am too tarmel

Zen Arado: yes its the way we use it that is the problem I guess

arabella Ella: yes ... like the way ppl use SL too ... may be good may be bad ... but who am i to judge?

Tarmel Udimo: they have been trying for decades i think Mick?

Mickorod Renard: I will try and find the information for you tarmel

Zen Arado: yes Ara

Tarmel Udimo: and wonder whether due its use they fail or are they successful?

Tarmel Udimo: ty

Mickorod Renard: yes,,but its diferent this time

Tarmel Udimo: in what way?

Mickorod Renard: ouch,,i will find the info,,but its not like remotes etc

Tarmel Udimo: sorry folks didn't mean to stop the flow

Aurora Kitaj: Tarmel, np

Mickorod Renard: oh noo,,Ara has crashed

Zen Arado: what is the difference between empathy ad compassion?

Mickorod Renard: good question

Aurora Kitaj: very good question

Zen Arado: empathy is just feeling what someone else feels

Zen Arado: compassion wants to do something about it?

Aurora Kitaj: compassion perhaps is the one to go for when trying to consider the needs of someone who is going through something that you've never gone through before?

Mediumflow Difference: It seems to me that empathy is on a more intuitive level; whereas compassions seems to need a certain decisiveness to act compassionately.

Mickorod Renard: comp:-pity inclining one to spare

Zen Arado: pity is compassion without empathy

Mickorod Renard: perhasp

Mediumflow Difference: Great, Zen Arado.

Mickorod Renard: perhaps

Aurora Kitaj: can you empathise with a snail?

Zen Arado: looking down on someone and feeling sorry for them?

Mediumflow Difference: With a snail? why not...#

Aurora Kitaj: or can you have compassion for a snail

Mickorod Renard: yea,,well put

Aurora Kitaj: how can I know what a snail thinks or feels?

Mediumflow Difference: I think I cannot feel compassion with a snail. Or do you?

Mickorod Renard: I can

Zen Arado: yes

Zen Arado: or any insect

Mickorod Renard: sometimes when I tread on one by accident

Zen Arado: i would find it hardto kill a spider

Scathach Rhiadra nods

Mediumflow Difference: But this is all empathy, right?

Aurora Kitaj: and yet I eat meat?

Mickorod Renard: but I avoid treading on snails,,thus am compassionate

Aurora Kitaj: Wb ara!

arabella Ella: hiya apologies i crashed and had to re boot

Zen Arado: so you can still feel empathy for little creatures scurrying about enjoying their lives

Scathach Rhiadra: wb:)

Mickorod Renard: hiya

Zen Arado: wb Ara

arabella Ella: technology and its effects ... smile

Zen Arado: it is about interconnectedness again I think

Mickorod Renard: zen,,what sort of things do you meditate on that swallows up the passage of time during your retreats?

Mickorod Renard: do you loose your feeling of self?

Mickorod Renard: and enter dream world?

Zen Arado: well either just keep coming back to my breathing every time my mind drifts off

Zen Arado: or practice a kind of open awareness

Mickorod Renard: ok,,so more a focus?

arabella Ella: interesting

Zen Arado: just noticing everything going on around me

Mickorod Renard: mmm,,that has been a quiz 4 me,,how to be open and free,,yet more focussed

Tarmel Udimo: I have to go folks, need to do some building;-) nice talking to you all

arabella Ella: bye Tarmel

Zen Arado: it is more about coming back from the way the mind carries yo away

Mickorod Renard: bye Tarmel

Aurora Kitaj: THanks for coming along Tarmel

Scathach Rhiadra: bye, Tarmel, see you soon:)

Aurora Kitaj: :)

Zen Arado: Bye Tarmel

Zen Arado: the mind wants to be busy all the time

Mediumflow Difference: Bye Tamel

Zen Arado: it doesn't like to be still

Mickorod Renard: yea

arabella Ella: i think it is not easy ... yet not impossible ... to get our thinking to 'slow down' and get focussed on meditation

Mickorod Renard: so its a refocus?

Scathach Rhiadra: I have to leave too, great discussion, see you all soon:)

Zen Arado: no the focus is ust a device to bring you back to here and now

arabella Ella: bye Scath

Mickorod Renard: bye scath

Zen Arado: bye Scath

Aurora Kitaj: Bye Scath

Aurora Kitaj: thanks for coming along :)

Mickorod Renard: wow,,is that the time

Mediumflow Difference: bye scath

Mickorod Renard: grin,,time vanishes

Aurora Kitaj: :)

Zen Arado: yep:)

arabella Ella: may i ask one last question Zen please?

Aurora Kitaj: listens

Zen Arado: we feel so uncomfortable wit silence :)

Mickorod Renard: yes

arabella Ella: oh noooo .... silence .... yea silence is not easy

arabella Ella: ok

arabella Ella: what do you do Zen if you are getting some vegtables washed and a little insect crawls on to your kitchen top?

arabella Ella: cos it happened to me today and i did nto know what to do and it was all so painful

Zen Arado: I usually try to get them onto a piece of paper and throw them outside

Mickorod Renard: I suppose vegitables were living once

Zen Arado: big spiders are a problem though :)

arabella Ella: ok thanks that is what i do with spiders generally

Aurora Kitaj: lol

Zen Arado: they move so fast :)

arabella Ella: i dont mind spiders at all

Wol Euler: afternoon all

arabella Ella: but today's insect shocked me ... it looked like a baby cockroach

Mickorod Renard: hi Wol

arabella Ella: Hiya Wol

Aurora Kitaj: Hello Wol

Zen Arado: I make a funnel with a newspPERAND TRY TO GET THEN TO CRAWL UP IT

Aurora Kitaj: nice to see you

Mediumflow Difference: Hi Wol!

Wol Euler: hello medium, nice to see you again

arabella Ella: yes good idea ... thanks

Mediumflow Difference: Nice to see you again.

Zen Arado: oops caps sorry

arabella Ella: no worries

Zen Arado: Hi Wol

Mickorod Renard: I had some spiders that jumped into your eye and bit it

Zen Arado: don't like them running over my face when in bed :)

arabella Ella: you mean you were breeding them Micko in a bath ... like a friend of mind was breeding crickets in his bath

Wol Euler: intentionally?

arabella Ella: )only joking)

Wol Euler: whew

arabella Ella: but yes my friend was really breeding cricklets in his bath ... true story

Mickorod Renard: I have a friend,,who when we were kids fed spiders meat,,they got huge,,even though normally they wouldnt have

arabella Ella: crickets

Aurora Kitaj: to feed something?

Mickorod Renard: well,,I guess i had best be getting on home

arabella Ella: bye Mick

Wol Euler: bye mick, enjoy your saturday

Zen Arado: yes me too

Wol Euler: and bye zen, take care

Mickorod Renard: did u hear about the new meeting on sin and karma,,asturday

Zen Arado: bye everyone:)

arabella Ella: bye zen and thanks for all

Mickorod Renard: thanks Wol

arabella Ella: i must go too bye all

Aurora Kitaj: bye ara:)

Aurora Kitaj: bye Zen

Mickorod Renard: thanks zen aurora medium

Mediumflow Difference: bye ara, by Zen

Mediumflow Difference: bye mickorod!

Aurora Kitaj: Bye Mick

Mediumflow Difference: :)

Aurora Kitaj: Bye wol and Medium,

Wol Euler: ok, I think we're done here.

Aurora Kitaj: Nice seeing you

Mediumflow Difference: bye Aurora, bye Wol

Wol Euler: bye aurora, take care.

Wol Euler: and you :)

Aurora Kitaj: waves