2009.03.11 01:00 - Arising or Appearances

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Tarmel Udimo. The comments are by Tarmel Udimo. I was alone for a while and the joined by Bertrum and Chiaiu.

    Tarmel Udimo: oh hi Betrum have you been sitting there for awhile?
    Tarmel Udimo: hi Chiaiu
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Tarel. Not too long. You looked pre-occupied.
    Tarmel Udimo: I had my screen minimized
    Tarmel Udimo: Come join us Chiaiu
    Chiaiu Chiung: Hi
    Bertrum Quan: Hi
    Chiaiu Chiung: I came and crashed :(
    Tarmel Udimo: yes saw that:-)
    Tarmel Udimo: you're a new GOC yes?
    Chiaiu Chiung: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: welcome to the party:-)
    Chiaiu Chiung: :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: Pema asked me to, i thought better visit on,y but anyway
    Chiaiu Chiung: only first
    Chiaiu Chiung: this is my first discussion at this time
    Tarmel Udimo: okay well its just us and we can talk about anything
    Tarmel Udimo: might as well jump in the deep end and be a Guardian
    Tarmel Udimo: espacially if you're going to be attending sessions
    Tarmel Udimo: Betrum do you have a topic you'd like to talk about?
    Tarmel Udimo: Or Chiaiu for that matter?
    Chiaiu Chiung: does not matter to me
    Bertrum Quan: Tarmel, I would be comfortable if you choose the topic...
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Tarmel Udimo: how about my favourite word at the moment- arising
    Bertrum Quan: What does "arising" mean to you?
    Tarmel Udimo: a welling up of Being

    Then Wol joined us and the discussion continued.


    Tarmel Udimo: hi Wol:-)
    Chiaiu Chiung: hello wol
    Wol Euler: morning chiaiu, tarmel, bertram
    Bertrum Quan: Hi Wol
    Tarmel Udimo: evening:-)
    Wol Euler: them too :)
    Tarmel Udimo: [1:41] Bertrum Quan: What does "arising" mean to you?
    Tarmel Udimo: is the topic
    Wol Euler: ah
    Wol Euler: there was a discussion of this yesterday at 1pm
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh shall we change it? have you had enough 'arisings'?
    Wol Euler: heheh, no.
    Wol Euler: please continue
    Chiaiu Chiung: different people, different discussion :)
    Wol Euler: yes, that too :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm well i guess for me its a feeling state, it feels tangiable
    Tarmel Udimo: and I had a rather strange experience in pheono when it felt like Arising bubbled up inside and said: "the arising is what connects us"
    Wol Euler: ah!
    Wol Euler: so arising is the "is" of "no man is an island"?
    Wol Euler: (rather the "isn't" :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: sort of;-)
    Chiaiu Chiung: i like that arising suggest the constant change of things, they come and go
    Tarmel Udimo: and within that we are all connected, so yes no man is an island
    Wol Euler: I am uncertain about the overlap or division between arising and appearances
    Tarmel Udimo: for me the arising is the energy behind the appearences
    Tarmel Udimo: appearances are phenomena that arise
    Wol Euler ponders
    Wol Euler: (well, don't let me slow down the discussino, please continue)
    Tarmel Udimo: hahaha we're usally trying to keep up with you Wol:-)
    Wol Euler smiles. Naaah.
    Bertrum Quan: Would you elaborate a bit more...?
    Tarmel Udimo: ahh which bit Bertrum:-)
    Bertrum Quan: the sequencing from appearances to arising...
    Tarmel Udimo: well its only my interpretation and i am using the word appearance in a Buddhist context
    Wol Euler <- non-Buddhist :)
    Wol Euler <- grateful for further clues :)
    Tarmel Udimo: sure sound like one:-)
    Wol Euler: well, maybe at the level of inner structures and processes, but not in a way that I am aware of :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm
    Tarmel Udimo: okay I'll give it a shot......
    Chiaiu Chiung: can we say arising is a kind of energy that manifests into appearances?
    Tarmel Udimo: unless Chiaiu wants to kick off:-)
    Tarmel Udimo: that's how I was meaning it espacially if we go Arising=Being
    Wol Euler nods thoughtfully
    Tarmel Udimo: what i like about Arising is that's its an adverb? whereas Being is a noun
    Tarmel Udimo: verb I think
    Chiaiu Chiung: it emphasizes movement, creation/destruction
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Tarmel Udimo: the energy arising
    Wol Euler: that makes sense.
    Chiaiu Chiung: if being=arising, then being=energy
    Tarmel Udimo: buddhists use the word appearances linked to phenomena ie everything we see is empty phenomena
    Tarmel Udimo: yes its just a preference on my part at the moment
    Chiaiu Chiung: appearance seems static at first, but is not in fact
    Tarmel Udimo: yes?
    Chiaiu Chiung: this is how i understand empty..
    Chiaiu Chiung: it is not a thing itself
    Tarmel Udimo: appearance you mean Chiaiu?
    Wol Euler: this seems to approach the idea of the Platonic ideal, that the appearance of bread that we perceive is the shadow of an ideal loaf that exists "elsehow"
    Chiaiu Chiung: appearance yes, which is empty
    Chiaiu Chiung: that makes sense to me , Wol
    Tarmel Udimo: yes Wol, except in this case we are saying even the ideal is also empty of form even though we may give it meaning
    Wol Euler muses. Interesting how the ideas overlap...
    Chiaiu Chiung: can you define how you understand the word empty?
    Chiaiu Chiung: surely not in the sense like "the glass is empty"
    Tarmel Udimo: no, one way is empty of meaning
    Tarmel Udimo: it is us humans who apply meaning to things
    Chiaiu Chiung: right
    Tarmel Udimo: nature does its thing but to us it is rain, snow, forest fires and beautiful balmy nights
    Tarmel Udimo: and then taking if further
    Tarmel Udimo: behinh the appearances of these forms, there is only energy
    Chiaiu Chiung: true
    Tarmel Udimo: manifesting as clouds and rabbits and rainbows and muffins
    Tarmel Udimo: (not sure where that combination of words came from;-)
    Chiaiu Chiung: the things that arise from it....
    Wol Euler: :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: i must go... tll
    Chiaiu Chiung: rl
    Wol Euler: bye chiaiu, enjoy the day
    Tarmel Udimo: bye
    Chiaiu Chiung: thanks, you too
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye
    Tarmel Udimo: bye bertrum
    Bertrum Quan: I must say goodnight as well. Thanks.
    Wol Euler: 'night bertrum, sleep well
    Tarmel Udimo: see you again
    Tarmel Udimo: didin't realise the hour was up, it flew by
    Wol Euler smiles. Time is relative, and all that
    Tarmel Udimo: mind you i was alone for a while that could be why:-)
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