2009.03.18 13:00 - The Beginning

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    The Guardian for this meeting was Pema Pera. The comments are by Pema Pera.

    Pema Pera: Hi Mick!
    Mickorod Renard: hiya
    Pema Pera: Hi Scathach!
    Pema Pera: Hi Chiaiu!
    Chiaiu Chiung: Hello
    Mickorod Renard: hi chi
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello chiaiu
    Mickorod Renard: hiya scath
    Pema Pera: Four Europeans :-)
    Pema Pera: from four countries, neatly in a row:
    Mickorod Renard: ;-)
    Pema Pera: Germany, Holland, Britain, Ireland
    Pema Pera: (only our seating is mixed up :-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Pema Pera: In RL I'm in a train, between Princeton and New York
    Pema Pera: quite comfortable
    Mickorod Renard: wow
    Chiaiu Chiung: cool
    Mickorod Renard: good reception?
    Scathach Rhiadra: is it a long journey?
    Pema Pera: seeing RL glide by behind one window, SL sitting here behind an other
    Pema Pera: one hour and a bit
    Pema Pera: yes, good reception
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Fael
    Pema Pera: another European, from another country!
    Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fael
    Chiaiu Chiung: hi Fael
    So there were five of us, born in five different European countries
    Pema Pera: Finland, Holland, Ireland, Germany, Britain . . . .
    Fael Illyar: Hi Pema, Scath, Chiaiu, Mick :)
    Pema Pera: I guess that's because it is evening in Europe now?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,all finnished work
    Mickorod Renard: no doubt
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, yes it is the best time for us:)
    Fael Illyar: Star sent her greetings behind me :)
    Pema Pera: please greet * in return, Fael :)
    Mickorod Renard: i work half a day today
    Fael Illyar: Done :)
    Mickorod Renard: do you often see the aurora Fael?
    Fael Illyar: No, not in Helsinki where I'm living at the moment.
    Pema Pera sees The Aurora here quite often :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, that is something I have always wanted to see:)
    Mickorod Renard: me too
    Scathach Rhiadra: in New York Pema?
    Pema Pera: Aurora Kitaj, in SL, Scath
    Pema Pera: our Aurora
    Scathach Rhiadra: haha, very good!
    Pema Pera: interestingly, "Kita" means "North" in Japanese, very fitting :-)
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Mickorod Renard: I always find it hard to accept that it snows in Japan
    Pema Pera: why?
    Mickorod Renard: well,,for me being a brit,,i always associate Japan with warm weather
    Mickorod Renard: being south
    Pema Pera: ah, well, in the South it is, in Kyushu
    Pema Pera: Japan is a looong country
    Mickorod Renard: although i have been cought out in snow in israel
    Scathach Rhiadra: and you have been to Nepal Mick, if I remember correctly?
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: plenty of snow there:)
    Mickorod Renard: spent a lil time there
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Mickorod Renard: although many areas are hot,,like india
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fael Illyar hasn't traveled that much.
    Scathach came up with a revolutionary idea:
    Scathach Rhiadra: now that is where I would like the PaB retreat to be built:)
    Chiaiu Chiung: :)
    Fael Illyar: india?
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,nice idea
    Scathach Rhiadra: Nepal
    Pema Pera: :)
    Fael Illyar: Ah :)
    Mickorod Renard: or India would do me
    Mickorod Renard: I have wondered Pema
    Chiaiu Chiung: i always loved tibet
    Pema Pera always wonders
    Mickorod Renard: why p as b was started on april 1st?
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, me too Chiaiu
    Pema Pera: perhaps it was all a joke?
    Pema Pera: or just a foolish attempt to see reality?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, quite a long time for a joke :P
    Pema Pera: you can take your favorite interpretation !
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Pema Pera: but seriously, the idea germinated in Feb/March last year
    Pema Pera: and it seemed best to start at the first of the month
    Fael Illyar: Ah, so it didn't start from a joke :)
    Pema Pera: and that happened to be April . . . .
    A question of fools?
    Scathach Rhiadra: not so foolish to attempt to see reality, or there are a lot of fools , more than we thought:)
    Pema Pera: yup
    Pema Pera: but now we need to organize a fool's fest!
    Pema Pera: any ideas?
    Pema Pera: would be a pity to just sit here
    Fael Illyar: fool's fest?
    Pema Pera: on our first birthday
    Pema Pera: April 1
    Fael Illyar: Ah :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: a party in Kira?
    Pema Pera: [13:18] Scathach Rhiadra: not so foolish to attempt to see reality, or there are a lot of fools , more than we thought:)
    Pema Pera: not in Kira, in PaB
    Pema Pera: to celebrate
    Pema Pera: PaB's first birthday
    We came up with a few suggestions, but nothing too wild . . . .
    Pema Pera: we could transform the pool into a cake
    Pema Pera: with one candle
    Pema Pera: for example
    Pema Pera: fireworks
    Pema Pera: dances
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, sounds good:)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,,i guess its a bit limiting on sl,,but a dance floor perhaps,,some music
    Mickorod Renard: maybe fancy dress
    Fael Illyar: Hi Fef :)
    Mickorod Renard: Hi Fef
    Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Fefonz:)
    Chiaiu Chiung: Hi Fefonz
    Pema Pera: Hi Fefonz!
    Scathach Rhiadra: not fancy dress:(
    Fefonz Quan: hello everyone :)
    Fael Illyar has enough fancy dresses to choose from.
    Fefonz Quan: yep :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he ,,I alwas dress so ..boring
    Fael Illyar: Always makes me wonder how come so few people talk to me even when I wear things like this :)
    Fefonz Quan: the wings fael...
    Fael Illyar: In RL I dress modestly to not attract attention but ...
    Mickorod Renard: I will talk to you anytime Fael,,its just i seem to be here almost always
    Fael Illyar: wings?
    Fael Illyar: (I mostly mean people I haven't talked with yet)
    Fefonz Quan: (just an optional reason)
    Fael Illyar: some people get people talking to them constantly :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, but SL is like that
    Mickorod Renard: depends where u go on sl
    Fefonz Quan knows nothing about those things infact, hanging out just here and kira...
    Fael Illyar: true, some of it
    About explorations:
    Pema Pera: it might be a good idea to explore, Fef
    Fael Illyar: I might want to test some day to try to go to places where I might be approached :P
    Pema Pera: what I did in my first few months in SL, is to go to the map, zoom out maximally, to see as much as I could
    Scathach Rhiadra: and some of the people who talk to everyone, are maybe not the people you would really want talking to you..
    Pema Pera: and then tp to a random place
    Pema Pera: very interesting sample I found!
    Fefonz Quan: yep, find rl explorations more interesting
    Pema Pera: Medieval role plays, Sci Fi sites, all kind of stuff
    Pema Pera: ah, but the point is to sample the culture here in SL
    Fael Illyar: SL is the land of imagination.
    Pema Pera: it is like a going to a new country
    Pema Pera: strongly recommended!!
    Fefonz Quan had imagination before SL, weird...
    Fael Illyar: the most concrete realization of our imagination there is.
    Pema Pera: yes
    Fefonz Quan: well i am in a new country, so time might be better spent there!
    Fael Illyar: You're welcome to choose how to spend your time, of course :)
    Mickorod Renard: I went to Israel on SL the other day,,,I was a lil disapointed
    Pema Pera: on the other hand, in half an hour you can sample three sites in SL quite well to get a good impression -- very hard to see anything in half an hour in RL, wherever you go, Fef
    Fefonz Quan: yes, that's the SL view of it
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I have been in Rl
    Mickorod Renard: Israel is a very interesting place
    Fefonz Quan: and the new country i am in noe is US, mick ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,
    Mickorod Renard: You mentioned before once
    Mickorod Renard: Do you get home sick?
    Fefonz Quan doesn't think his tourist preferations are so interesting as a conversation topic ;-)
    Fefonz Quan: no mick, i get people sick
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Random trips.
    Scathach Rhiadra: Is there not some place in SL called something like Random Compass, with LMs to lots of different places?
    Fefonz Quan: and food sick, some of the food here is terrble (or horribly expensive)
    Mickorod Renard: that sounds fun,,never heard of it though
    Mickorod Renard: I thought food was cheap in US
    Fefonz Quan: yes, bad food is cheap
    Mickorod Renard: grin
    Fefonz Quan: (and vice versa)
    Mickorod Renard: know what you mean
    Fefonz Quan: if i make a pasta sauce, just the tomatoes for it are a couple of bucks
    Chiaiu Chiung: wow
    Mickorod Renard: yesterday when you did role reversal Pema,,with Wol.....
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, its the Memory Bazaar, Govenor Linden's
    Mickorod Renard: I have often wondered what our role is in life,,not individually,,but as a speices
    Fefonz Quan: our roles i would say, so many of them
    Mickorod Renard: well,,individually /collectivly
    Fael Illyar: role? isn't that to live?
    Different answers are proposed:
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I have wondered whether we are here to collect information
    Mickorod Renard: just a thought
    Fael Illyar: yes, that's what living is :)
    Fael Illyar: learning :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: to find the nature of reality, maybe?
    Pema Pera: answers depend on the framework in which you ask the questions
    Pema Pera: pointing to a chess piece, you can ask why it is there?
    Mickorod Renard: I was thinking outside the box
    Pema Pera: because someone made a move, or because someone bought the set, or because someone carved the pieces -- all valid answers
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Fael Illyar: "because it's there" :P
    Scathach Rhiadra: because it is
    Mickorod Renard: but has anyone any creative thoughts on the beginning
    Fael Illyar: can you define beginning?
    Mickorod Renard: he he he
    Mickorod Renard: well,,thats a toughy
    Fael Illyar is just wondering what you're actually asking.
    Fefonz Quan nods
    Mickorod Renard: well,,I was asking for creative idea's
    Mickorod Renard: I dont think any of us can say what was at the beginning
    Scathach Rhiadra: what begining of what?
    Fael Illyar: at some point during the last year, "the beginning" ceased to feel like it makes sense as a concept :)
    Down to the sludge...
    Mickorod Renard: I guess,,were we created from primeval sludge,,or is our mind,,intelligence,or what,,something else
    Fefonz Quan goes for the sludge, whatever that is. it sounds cool :)
    Mickorod Renard: or do we just put it all down to biology
    Mickorod Renard: evolution
    Fefonz Quan: or both mick?
    Mickorod Renard: yea
    Scathach Rhiadra: but can you really separate out some point and look for the beginning ot that, like 'us', or is it all related, the whole universe?
    Scathach Rhiadra: of*
    Mickorod Renard: star dust
    Fael Illyar: isn't the concept of beginning kind of similar to the concept of infinity?
    Pema Pera: may I suggest a two-minute exploration? How about looking for the "beginning" of the next new thought? And after each thought had popped up, looking for the beginning of the next? We can then share what we find. Shall we try that?
    Scathach Rhiadra: ha, that is the pheno exercise this week:)
    Mickorod Renard: well,,i had a theory once that concluded that we started the universe ourselves,,after we became very clever and mastered time
    Pema Pera: As an astronomer, I can be the time keeper :-)
    Pema Pera: sshhht, Scathach
    Pema Pera: we can catch two birds with one stone
    Scathach Rhiadra: oops, sorry:)
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Pema Pera: anyone game?
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Fael Illyar: I can make an attempt :)
    The beginning of the exploration of beginnings . . .
    Pema Pera: okay, two minute period starting . . . now!
    Pema Pera: And . . . this is it, from beginning to end :)
    Fael Illyar: Well, all I got out of it was that I kind of felt like cat chasing it's tail for a moment during the two minutes.
    Fefonz Quan: didn't manage to catch the beginning of each thought
    Fefonz Quan: as i recignized a thought, it was already there, after its beginning
    Chiaiu Chiung: when i observe thought like this .... then there are hardly any coming up ...
    Fefonz Quan: (an idea: it is like life, when we start remembering our selves, we are already not new)
    Fael Illyar: thoughts chasing thoughts :P
    Mickorod Renard: I completely forgot about what we should have done as my thoughts raced off on other silly idea's
    Mickorod Renard: maybe that is part of the key
    Scathach Rhiadra: I concentrated on two distinct tyoes of thoughts, one hearing a word in my internal dialog, if that makes sense and then the image that arose
    Fefonz Quan: yes me too scath.
    Mickorod Renard: Scath,,you have been doing your homework
    Fefonz Quan: mauch easier to define the borders of word thouhgts for me
    Fefonz Quan: much*
    Fael Illyar: I had some whispers of word thoughts occasionally during it but no image ones I can remember.
    Fael Illyar: whispers, as in, I barely noticed them.
    Fefonz Quan: interesting, most of my thoughts were visual images
    Mickorod Renard: I cant say what I thoughty,,otherwise I may be dragged off
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, yes, and I had just a single sylable word, 'Blue', but by the time I heard the 'l' the 'b' was gone, then the 'l'sound was gone when I heard the 'ue'
    Mickorod Renard: I am starting to see why I am not an academic
    Fefonz Quan: ha, now that you say it, i saw the words (like "BLUE") floating before me
    Scathach Rhiadra: can only seem to be aware of the thought in our mind at this exact moment, not matter how complicated that thought seems to be
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,I am with u there scath
    Fefonz Quan: yes, giving the saying 'hold that thought' a new degree of challenge
    Mickorod Renard: anything else is memory
    Fefonz Quan: it's like saying 'stop time'
    Scathach Rhiadra: mm, and the memory is also a thought when you remember, bring it into being
    Fael Illyar: Sorry everyone but I need to go now. See you later :)
    Fefonz Quan: arising as a loop of thought-memory-thought-.......
    Mickorod Renard: bye fael
    And the end of the session for me coming up.
    Pema Pera: oops, I see the beginning of the tunnel coming up in the distance, and will lose internet connection -- another beginning & end of my presence here -- see you all soon again!
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Fael
    Pema Pera: bye everybody!
    Fefonz Quan: bye fael :)
    Mickorod Renard: bye Pema
    Fefonz Quan: bye pema
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Pema
    Pema Pera: glad to see the enormous variety of responses!
    Fael Illyar waves.
    Fael Illyar: see you later Pema :)
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye fael, bye pema
    Fefonz Quan: (my first association was the tunnel toward the bright light... spooky )
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Mickorod Renard: ;-)
    Fefonz Quan: bringing to memory our last sentences scath :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: !?!
    Mickorod Renard: I guess this tells us something
    Fefonz Quan: we were talking about memory as generating thoughts
    Scathach Rhiadra: ah, yes:)
    Chiaiu Chiung: must go, too
    Mickorod Renard: bye chi
    Scathach Rhiadra: bye Chi
    Fefonz Quan: bye chiaiu
    Chiaiu Chiung: bye all
    Chiaiu Chiung: CU
    Fefonz Quan: and then those thought are turning into memories
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, and being recalled into being again and again, always 'now'
    Fefonz Quan: thoughts*
    Mickorod Renard: like a river flowing
    Fefonz Quan: yes scath, i think we came with a new desciption of arising
    Mickorod Renard: or rather..like a wave moving forward
    Scathach Rhiadra: :)
    Fefonz Quan: a river mick, but in a circular way
    Fefonz Quan: so in order to keep a thought, we need to 'arise' it all the time to teh now
    Mickorod Renard: the same thought,,the same instant of the thought
    Fefonz Quan: (not saying that it is an active thing we are 'doing')
    Mickorod Renard: like a strobe light
    Scathach Rhiadra: and not the same thought, because that is gone as soon as it is thought:)
    Mickorod Renard: yes,,but as Fef was saying,,to hold a thought
    Fefonz Quan nods to Scath
    Mickorod Renard: although we wud be tricking ourselves
    Fefonz Quan: SO mick, this is an illusion of holding, infact it's recreating any moment again and again
    Mickorod Renard: because we would be replicating the thought that had passed
    Mickorod Renard: no actually holding it
    Scathach Rhiadra: and the associations or relations we make, think Blue, see image of sky, gives the appearance of sequential time
    Mickorod Renard: I was just trying to remember if its possible to not have any thought
    Fefonz Quan: /nods to scath again :)
    Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, just sheer awareness
    Fefonz Quan: i would say yes too mick, but in a careful way
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Mickorod Renard: I wonder why the mind is so active
    Fefonz Quan: fear of teh void
    Fefonz Quan: fear of the silence
    Mickorod Renard: is it to block out something,,or to keep creating reality as we know it
    Fefonz Quan: fear of letting go
    Fefonz Quan: and bad education ;-)
    Mickorod Renard: hey,,are you refering to me? ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: or fear that if we didn't actualise reality, as we think of it, there would be nothing, oblivion
    Fefonz Quan: not at all mick :)
    Mickorod Renard: he he
    Mickorod Renard: would you believe I actually teach kids
    Mickorod Renard: God save em
    Fefonz Quan: sure, and i guess you are doing a good job.
    Mickorod Renard: I do feel that way sometimes scath
    Mickorod Renard: or else,,that reality is too scary
    Fefonz Quan: me too. in a way you define fear of death scathach
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Scathach Rhiadra: and yet how could we actualise this whole incredible universe if there was only oblivion?
    Fefonz Quan: yes, but the fear of oblivion doesn';t say that it is real.
    Fefonz Quan: maybe when we let go, we will find something different from what we fear of
    Scathach Rhiadra: yes:)
    Fefonz Quan: even the opposite
    Mickorod Renard: something actualized it,,even if its real
    Fefonz Quan: or it is actualized, arising
    Scathach Rhiadra nods
    Mickorod Renard: yes
    Scathach Rhiadra: and our 'self' too
    Mickorod Renard: mmmmmm
    Mickorod Renard: I think we are falling into a deep thought area
    Mickorod Renard: and I have to go
    Scathach Rhiadra grins
    Fefonz Quan: so let's just spread wings and fly ;-)
    Scathach Rhiadra: I have to go too, see you both tomorrow?
    Mickorod Renard: bye scath
    Fefonz Quan: yes see you, it has been inspiring
    Mickorod Renard: thanks 4 tonite
    Scathach Rhiadra: thank you both, namasté
    Fefonz Quan: namaste
    Mickorod Renard: nameste
    Mickorod Renard: ok Fef,,I better go before i am noticed missing
    Fefonz Quan: (whose GOC now/0
    Fefonz Quan: ?
    Mickorod Renard: I dont know
    Mickorod Renard: eeek
    Fefonz Quan: ok, it was worthy of recording.
    Mickorod Renard: shall i check on the list?
    Fefonz Quan: guess it's ok.
    Mickorod Renard: or have you done it?
    Mickorod Renard: ok
    Fefonz Quan: see you
    Mickorod Renard: bye,,thanks
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