2009.03.30 19:00 - Patterns

    Table of contents
    No headers

    The Guardian for this meeting was Threedee Shepherd. The comments are by Threedee Shepherd.


    Threedee tried to start of discussion of the concept of PATTERNS and the relation of that concept to our perception of reality. The pattern of the evening was low-energy (or equivalent), so the discussion did not get far.

    Threedee Shepherd: Good evening Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Three!
    Pema Pera: Hi Kira!
    Threedee Shepherd: Purrr, Kira
    Pema Pera: Have you been here before, Kira?
    Kira Pidgeon: Yea Pema.. I'm Korii.
    Pema Pera: ah!!
    Pema Pera: hehehe
    Kira Pidgeon: I'm also laying in cypress lap wile he hosts WWC
    Pema Pera: thought yuo looked famliar :)
    Threedee Shepherd: Outnumbered already, Pema
    Pema Pera: not multiple personalities but multiple bodies
    Kira Pidgeon: hi threedee
    Kira Pidgeon: may be a little of both pema ;)
    Kira Pidgeon: purrrr
    Kira Pidgeon: white lion ^.^
    Threedee Shepherd: decorated leopard ??
    Kira Pidgeon: you mean my collar?
    Threedee Shepherd: no your non-spots
    Kira Pidgeon: hee hee
    Kira Pidgeon: i like to call them muted
    Threedee Shepherd: good camo in certain modern art museums :D
    Kira Pidgeon: :)
    Kira Pidgeon: hi doug
    Threedee Shepherd: actually, your decor leads to what I wanted to bring up tonight, the overall concept of patterns
    Threedee Shepherd: hi doug
    doug Sosa: hi all.
    Pema Pera: Hi Doug, good seeing you again!
    doug Sosa: thankyou. yes.
    Pema Pera: patterns, Three?
    Threedee Shepherd: OK, I'll start with a question. How would you you start to define the concept PATTERN
    Pema Pera: me? no idea, I generally don't try to define general things, rather work with them
    Threedee Shepherd: ok, how do you recognize a pattern?, say as in, I perceive a pattern in all that activity?
    Pema Pera: (for Doug: a new feature: 90 seconds silence in SL, as opposed to 9 sec stopping in RL)
    Pema Pera: (Storm implemented the visuals of the fountain growing mysty, and the beginning and ending bell)
    Pema Pera: (as well as the green text in the communicate window)
    doug Sosa: interesting to think about pattern. 90 sec every 15 is a pattern.
    Pema Pera: I just recognize patterns, Three, don't know how I do it
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, a very regular one!
    Threedee Shepherd: Pema, If I set up a random spatial collection, would you see a pattern
    Pema Pera: perhaps
    Threedee Shepherd: hi steve
    Pema Pera: would depend on the exact details -- I can see patterns in clouds
    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    stevenaia Michinaga: waves, Hi Doug, three, Pema, Kira
    doug Sosa: :)
    Threedee Shepherd: steve, I asked, what are "patterns", such as a pattern of behavior
    stevenaia Michinaga: and so much more
    doug Sosa: Oriental rugs feature "mistakes" to highten sense of livliness that comes with pattern.
    Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
    Kira Pidgeon: hi steve
    stevenaia Michinaga: interesting topic, hello Kira
    Threedee Shepherd: There is another sense--as follows. I can watch a group of interacting individuals and try to figure out what each one is doing, and perhaps in response to what. An atomistic view. alternatively I can look to see if I can discern an overall pattern to what is going on.
    stevenaia Michinaga: you named for the cafe, Kira?
    Pema Pera: yes, Three
    Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, novices tend to start atomistically to recognize, whereas experts perceive thge patterns, based on intense experience
    Pema Pera: yes, like playing chess for example
    Threedee Shepherd: exactly!
    Kira Pidgeon: no
    Kira Pidgeon: i made this avitsr long befor i knew about kira cafee
    Threedee Shepherd: patterns are somewhat like a higher level of perception
    Pema Pera: great foresight, Kira!
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    doug Sosa: Humans attribute pattern to random events.
    Threedee Shepherd: yes, the brain does that as a way of trying to "force" sense onto the chaos around us.
    Kira Pidgeon: i think my kira is older then Pema's kira
    Pema Pera: Pema's Kira just had its 12th birthday in RL
    Threedee Shepherd: And if none is there the brain will often/usually ionvent one.
    Pema Pera: but only half a year in SL
    Kira Pidgeon: oh nm
    Kira Pidgeon: ^.^
    Kira Pidgeon: i thoughtiut wa sjsut ayear.. or may be a year in SL.
    Pema Pera: PaB started a year ago, on April 1.
    Pema Pera: Kira came into SL half a year later
    Kira Pidgeon: ah.
    Pema Pera: Yes, Three, we understand the world through categories
    Pema Pera: what you call patterns, perhaps?
    Kira Pidgeon: my birthday is the 7th.
    Pema Pera: I never see something really unique
    Pema Pera: I see a table or a chair
    Pema Pera: or a non-specific "thing" but still a thing
    Pema Pera: never a "no-idea-at-all" object
    Pema Pera: always a member of a categorie
    Pema Pera: normally speaking
    Pema Pera: I'm curious to see what Threeded is crafting here :)

    Threedee was making a panel on which a totally random placement of grains was arrayed.

    Pema Pera: but I also am getting quite sleepy
    Pema Pera: haven't slept much the last few days
    Threedee Shepherd: other than the fact that the surface is bounded, do you discern a pattern in it's "design"
    Pema Pera: so I think I'll return to a RL bed . . . .
    stevenaia Michinaga: understandable
    Pema Pera: sure, Threedee
    Pema Pera: lines and such
    Threedee Shepherd: do you think that is how I made it
    Pema Pera: it doesn't look completely random to me
    Pema Pera: but we can easily be fooled
    Threedee Shepherd: It is a close to a 2D random noise figure as can be displayed in SL, actually
    Pema Pera: yes, the eye has evolved to recognize features
    Pema Pera: for good reasons, with tigers around for example, hehehe
    Threedee Shepherd: I made and use it to "tile" surfaces when I want them to not look at all repeating
    Pema Pera: and lions
    Threedee Shepherd: Did the eye so eveolve, or the /eye/brain
    Threedee Shepherd: *evolve
    Pema Pera: well, I'm happy to pick up the topic again next time!
    Threedee Shepherd: goodnight Pema
    Pema Pera: maybe I'll first have some random dreams :)
    Pema Pera: be well, y'all !
    stevenaia Michinaga: write them down
    Pema Pera: randomly?
    Threedee Shepherd: using random numbers as symbols, of course
    Pema Pera: (some dreams do repeat!)
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: bfn!
    Threedee Shepherd: Interestingly, a random surface such as that looks less random to the typical viewer than does a pseudo random one.
    stevenaia Michinaga: Doud, I sent you an email a few weks ago, did you happen to see it?
    Threedee Shepherd: that's because clumps happen in a random surface, but people trying to "make" random surfaces tend not to put points very close together.
    Threedee Shepherd: In a throw or a "perfect" coin a million times, runs of 100 heads will occur. Locally that would look very non-random
    Threedee Shepherd: I bring this up because I am interested in the relationships between pattern (and pattern making) and the perception of reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: bit if they occure in a row
    stevenaia Michinaga: reality is a pattern? Three
    Threedee Shepherd: No, tenuous patterns (or even more stable ones) emerge out of, OR become a local reality
    Threedee Shepherd: I suggest
    stevenaia Michinaga: is reality a perception or what "is" or either?
    stevenaia Michinaga: what was that quote, abotu it's what;s left when you stop beliveing?
    Threedee Shepherd: I am avoiding that explicit question--tonight--by approaching the perception of pattern as a way of THEN exploring "reality"
    stevenaia Michinaga: is a pattern a pattern if it not perceived?
    stevenaia Michinaga: are we substtuting patter for "reality"
    Threedee Shepherd: no, we are saying that there seams to be value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception, and seeing where that leads
    Threedee Shepherd: *seems although seams might fit too
    stevenaia Michinaga: lol
    stevenaia Michinaga: can you give me an example of it's value
    stevenaia Michinaga: to you
    stevenaia Michinaga: you can see the groups people belong to
    stevenaia Michinaga: opps, wrong window
    Threedee Shepherd: steve, patterns and you aia-ness are highly related, are they not
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but I was looking for your "value in patterns as a way of conceptualizing perception"
    Threedee Shepherd: are football players running around aimlessly, or is there a pattern to their play. That pattern suggests something besides running around is going on. That then leads to looking at the scene differently and focusing perception
    Threedee Shepherd: So, I am suggesting that "perception" do not "just happen"
    stevenaia Michinaga: they are constructed
    Threedee Shepherd: and that patterns are a major part of perceiving, which thus already structures/skews reality
    stevenaia Michinaga: I must go, an interesting begining
    Threedee Shepherd: g'nite
    stevenaia Michinaga: night Kira
    Threedee Shepherd: Well, I guess tonight's PaB pattern might be names "Tentative beginnings, maybe....."
    Threedee Shepherd: bye all
    Tag page (Edit tags)
    You must login to post a comment.
    Powered by MindTouch Core