2009.04.04 01:00 - Welcome Home

The Guardian for this meeting was Scathach Rhiadra. The comments are by Scathach Rhiadra.

I was joined by Tarmel, Sophia and Trevor.  We had a great discussion of the effect PaB was having on our lives, our notions of the 'Self', 'seeing' our emotions as they arise, and the confusion the words we use can cause.

Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarme
Scathach Rhiadra: Tarmel*
Tarmel Udimo: hello
Tarmel Udimo: Scat
Scathach Rhiadra: so how are you today?
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi
SophiaSharon Larnia: Is there a topic for tonight?
Scathach Rhiadra: or this early morning:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: oh yes it is :))
Scathach Rhiadra: no, no topic
Scathach Rhiadra: do you have anything you would like to discuss?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Yes it is rudimentary and it's been difficult to bring it up
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Tarmel Udimo: hi scath sorry I had to do something in RL
Trevor Berensohn: Evenin
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Trevor
Tarmel Udimo: Hi Trevor
SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Trevor

Sophia raises the topic of how she feels her focus is changing as a result of PaB......

Scathach Rhiadra: so Sophia you wanted to discuss something?
SophiaSharon Larnia: I have become more fully aware of how my focus needs to change quite a bit for the topics in this group
SophiaSharon Larnia: It is like starting over
Scathach Rhiadra: how so?
SophiaSharon Larnia: Thinking from a scientific standpoint
SophiaSharon Larnia: it took me a while to realize this :))
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, where do you see the scientific viewpoint?
SophiaSharon Larnia: in its objectivity
SophiaSharon Larnia: I realize the way I interpret what is see is completely subjective, almost without exclusions
SophiaSharon Larnia: I am a little overwelmed by this
Tarmel Udimo: do you mean that you 'experience' what we talk about?
Tarmel Udimo: or that you have developed a very subjective point of view about what we talk about?
Tarmel Udimo: that you have never questioned your point of view?
SophiaSharon Larnia: experience it in the sense that I really on my feelings, based on my own life views and experiences in 3d, not subjective about anything discussed here
SophiaSharon Larnia: rely*
SophiaSharon Larnia: question contantly
Scathach Rhiadra nods
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: sounds like the rest of us:-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: my life experience incorporate 'prejudices' and preconceived notions
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes, but it is startling to see it painting in colors
Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
Tarmel Udimo: and what are these in relationship to Being?
Tarmel Udimo: your preconcieved notions

Our notions of the 'Self' were to occupy us for a while......

SophiaSharon Larnia: to tuyrn this 'off' is to turn to another 'self'
SophiaSharon Larnia: and i dont know how to get there
Scathach Rhiadra: or maybe to move slightly away from the notion of 'self'?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm I've sure experienced a loosening of my grip on this whole notion of a self
Scathach Rhiadra: be neither subjective nor objective, as far as that is possible right now
SophiaSharon Larnia: but it puts me in mind of stuggles years ago of what trying to figure out what ego boundaries are, and i've come around agin
Tarmel Udimo: is that through PaB or have you been working on that in RL for awhile Trevor?
Trevor Berensohn: IRL, yes, but running into PaB a year ago... I've kept this in mind while contemplating
SophiaSharon Larnia: and how did you do that, travor?
SophiaSharon Larnia: oops Trevor
Tarmel Udimo: perhaps what happens Sophia is that as we start to lossen up all our assumptions we do encounter the ones hidden deeper... and so we just continue to drop them too
Trevor Berensohn: I guess that's why I don't say much here.. my practice is similar to this, but different, so I've mostly just contemplated this
SophiaSharon Larnia nods
Tarmel Udimo: its like all those oldselves surface, but we can know look at them in a new light and drop them too
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, I agree with Tarmel, it can sometimes be easy to talk of there being no fixed, independent Self....
Scathach Rhiadra: but it takes constant practice to actually 'see' that , so to speak
Scathach Rhiadra: and constantstopping and dropping helps:)
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Tarmel Udimo: it would be good to hear about your process or observations Trevor:-)
Scathach Rhiadra: yes please:)

Trevor describes his RL pracitce and how PaB has fit in with it......

Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm hwo to even put into words..
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Trevor Berensohn: Well I guess I just um let my emotions, and thinking thoughts slow down,
Trevor Berensohn: Or well like you put it, just "drop" them
Trevor Berensohn: Though sometimes that's easier than others
Scathach Rhiadra nods:)
Trevor Berensohn: And then, just experience, while being aware of it? I dunno.. it never looks good in type lol
Scathach Rhiadra grins
Tarmel Udimo: sounds good to me:-)
Trevor Berensohn: Then I just well I guess contemplate that experience
Tarmel Udimo: I think you have hit the nail on the head, we call that Being arising
Trevor Berensohn: adn it's so funny that what I find, it seems you ppl are talkiing about
Scathach Rhiadra: :)

Tarmel hits the nail on the head, so to speak, how finding PaB has felt like coming home to so many of us......

Tarmel Udimo: nods welcome home Trevor and Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: :)
Trevor Berensohn: Haha it has the feel of it
Trevor Berensohn: of home
Tarmel Udimo: i noticed you said that too Scath in the cronicles, a few of us did
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, yes definitely has the feellof home:)
Trevor Berensohn: =)
Tarmel Udimo: its like an inate recoginition of what IS and that this place is an embodyment of whatever this IS
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm you lose me at IS but hey
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, suchness, maybe?

We then moved on to our experiences of dealing with emotions like anger, a subject which has figured in several recent sessions.  It occupies us for the rest ofthe session......

SophiaSharon Larnia: but to consider the topics brought up by Pema (today).... I am realizing that this IS, is different than I have thought before
Tarmel Udimo: nods 'Reality'
Tarmel Udimo: in waht way Sophia
Trevor Berensohn: Heh by any other name...
Tarmel Udimo: what
SophiaSharon Larnia: at least the seeing of it
SophiaSharon Larnia: the way it is seen
Trevor Berensohn: we seem to be experiencing along very much the same lines
Scathach Rhiadra nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: it is like moving a barreling train for me
Trevor Berensohn: Shich part, Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: alot of cars to reroute
SophiaSharon Larnia: (ideas, life experiences etc)
SophiaSharon Larnia: how to clean the slate
Tarmel Udimo: do you need to clean anything?
SophiaSharon Larnia: you're right Trevor, thank you
Scathach Rhiadra nods at Tarmel
SophiaSharon Larnia: however I do have a bit of anger, I would like to clean that
Trevor Berensohn: When I get overwhelmed, I have a freidn that reminds me frequently, "Slowly, slowly."
SophiaSharon Larnia smiles
Scathach Rhiadra: we were just talking about anger yesterday
Tarmel Udimo: yes?
Scathach Rhiadra: how just being able to 'see' that anger is overwhemning you, seem to loosen its hold, you can just drop it
Trevor Berensohn: Sophia, do you find PaB affects your experience of anger?
Trevor Berensohn: I mean the every 15 min. practice
SophiaSharon Larnia: it makes me aware that it a stumbling block, yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: but this is my own awareness, I don't think ive read about it here yet
Tarmel Udimo: andwhy does this anger arise?
Tarmel Udimo: is it irritation caused by stress or something more?
SophiaSharon Larnia: both. The reasons are private and this is not a therapy session lol
Tarmel Udimo: yes I wasn't really looking for the rpivate - i phrased it wrong:-)
Trevor Berensohn: Yes, therapy never worked this well for me ;-P
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol Trevor
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: I was trying to discern how attached you are to the anger
SophiaSharon Larnia: I understand, i didnt mean that the way it sounded in text *smiles*
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm anger's such a unique experience.. its hard to even think of it without feeling it
SophiaSharon Larnia: quite a bit, it has fueled my drive to make myself independant, etc in rl
Tarmel Udimo: no worries, I would have thought the same thing... because as Scath said in the seeing of it, it is no longer a stumbling
Tarmel Udimo: block and you ahve just supported that
Tarmel Udimo: I find anger can be very useful, when not attached to it. it gives one energy and often clarity
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Trevor Berensohn: Oh wait
Trevor Berensohn: Oh nvm sorry
Trevor Berensohn: Just occured to me that thinking of anger as a stumbling block
Trevor Berensohn: Is just a thought about anger
Tarmel Udimo: yes!
Tarmel Udimo: nvm?
SophiaSharon Larnia agrees
Scathach Rhiadra: when you can see the anger arising, in the moment as you experience it, you have the choice then, to let go or follow the anger
Tarmel Udimo: Well put Scath:-)
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Trevor Berensohn: Hmm let go.. do you mean ignore it?
Scathach Rhiadra: no, just recognise it for what it is, an emotion arising, so to speak
Tarmel Udimo: and in that seeing of it being an emotion arising it often shifts
Trevor Berensohn: Ah that makes sense
Scathach Rhiadra: and that recognition seems to give a bit of space, so to speak, between the anger and you, like stepping slightly back from it
Trevor Berensohn tries to stifle a yawn

The confusion that the words we use can cause......

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes this is hard for me, i am also struggling with ideas of dissociation
Scathach Rhiadra: ah, is it early morning or late night for you:)
Trevor Berensohn: Dissociation? That was a fave of mine b4 my current practice
Trevor Berensohn: Similar to this, just without that calm awareness.. or at least that was my experience
Tarmel Udimo: nods
SophiaSharon Larnia: did you ever think it could be dangerous to do so, this idea is contrary tomany practices.
SophiaSharon Larnia: or is that another stumbling block?
Tarmel Udimo: do you mean dissociation Sophia?
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes
Trevor Berensohn: Oh I was very concerned.. Thus taking it slowly
Trevor Berensohn: Like testing the waters a bit, every few steps.. nothing wrong with that
Tarmel Udimo: looking up dissociation as a practice
Scathach Rhiadra: mmm, maybe saying being slightly apart from arising emotions is not entirely the best discription
Scathach Rhiadra: I mean more like what Trevor said,' calm awareness'
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes i will give this a lot of thought :))
Scathach Rhiadra: allows you to observe your thoughts and emotions
Tarmel Udimo: but there seems to be an actual practice of working with dissocaition and not just for people who have been tramitised
Tarmel Udimo: Is that right Trevor or Sophia?
Trevor Berensohn: Oh mine was more a reaction to trauma.. though I later used that strength
SophiaSharon Larnia: I'm not sure, I heard the words i used though what you said, and agin, it is a preconceived notion on my part, I am new at this sorry
Trevor Berensohn: For me dissociation had it's limitations
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Scathach Rhiadra: oh we are all trying to find a way to use words, all seem to have different meanings for each of us, Sophia
SophiaSharon Larnia: yes that was part of it
Trevor Berensohn: Dang words...
Trevor Berensohn: lol
Scathach Rhiadra: :)
Tarmel Udimo: grins
SophiaSharon Larnia: of couse for every one sentence here, there really could be an essay to fully explain it :))
Scathach Rhiadra: very true:)
Trevor Berensohn: Haha thus my YEAR of pondering
SophiaSharon Larnia: lol
Trevor Berensohn: Oh my is it after 4 already?
Tarmel Udimo: did you get my gift trevor
Trevor Berensohn: I don't think I did Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: yes can't seem to give it to you
Scathach Rhiadra: I have to go now, thanks for the great discussion, see you all again soon:)
Tarmel Udimo: there I think you got it now
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too......good night all!!! Thak you so much for the conversation!! I enjoy it so much
Tarmel Udimo: bye Sacth
Scathach Rhiadra: Namasté
Trevor Berensohn: Ah there thank y9ou
Trevor Berensohn: Yes good to be with you all tonight
Scathach Rhiadra: namaste
SophiaSharon Larnia: take care!!
Tarmel Udimo: bye all
Trevor Berensohn: Hmmm how nice